G5 Sharpness

[aar]

I recently purchased a G5 for my wife

That's good you provided the sample. I am not sure wether you use word sharpness instead of contrast.
I see the following problems:

• poorly diffused inadequate lighting. If you want have best of the best and yet free, have norhern sky behind you. That's it!.
• too low depth of field. Small tripod may be very useful.
• try to shoot witth exposure bias set to at least (-)1/3 up to (-)1. Also spot metering may be helpful. It will improve contrast.
• do not forget about close-up feauture ( flower button).
• Is it postprocessing an evil? Probably the same program, you use for cropping has such common controls, as unsharp mask, levels, contrast and brightness.

(aar)

 

[Phil-B G5]

How come with flash in lowish light the shutter speed was 1/60th. I thought the flash made the exposure 1/250th I read somewhere so even hand held is should eliminate camera shake.

Go easy on reply I'm still learning!

--
Phil
Lancashire, England
http://philb.fotopic.net/

 

[critter1]

Phil,

Many cameras are set up so that when flash is the main source of light that the shutter is set to 1/60 (a standard value).

The flash itself is very, very, very short, so if the bulk of the illumination comes from the flash, then shake is not an issue.

However, flash can be used for other attributes (e.g., fill flash), where the above is not true, because part of the picture is exposed mainly with ambient light.

The actual shutter speed that can be set with flash depends on the camera's sync ability, which varies from model to model. I haven't checked out the details for the G5.

How come with flash in lowish light the shutter speed was 1/60th. I
thought the flash made the exposure 1/250th I read somewhere so
even hand held is should eliminate camera shake.

Go easy on reply I'm still learning!

--
Phil
Lancashire, England
http://philb.fotopic.net/

 

[critter1]

aar: My only interest in this thread is the lack of sharpness for the conditions given. I'm not concerned here with the contrast issue (or the many other composition issues) unless there is some relationship to the lack of sharpness.

1) remember, I am comparing performance against an old DC290 which does much better under the identical conditions. Why?

2) also remember, that I simply wanted to replace the DC290 (which is beginning to fail) with another camera without having to redesign my wife's workflow, which has been very well established and routine for her. I just want to put a replacement camera into her hands that performs at least as well.

3) The pic was taken with spot metering and the macro mode (flower on). Without the flower, the camera indicates a "focus problem" (too close). With the flower, it indicates a focus lock. Regardless, I have done a kazillion manual focus experiments moving in and out, and the example is as good as it gets.

4) Unfortunately, the program that the wife uses is very old and does not have many photo editing features. Even so, why would she be happy about being forced to do post-processing.

What it DOES have is the ability for her to VERY quickly preview the two hundred shots she takes in a session before she decides which few to use for her collages.

To be more explicit here, she drags and drops each picture onto the app and it displays the picture in a single window. The next picture replaces the previous one in the same single window. When you do the same in Photoshop, it opens a new window for each pic. She doesn't want to have to manually close each window.

So, if someone knows how to configure PS to retain just a single window, that would be helpful.

In any event, the real goal is to either find a way to configure the G5 to take a decent, web ready picture right out of the camera, or to replace the G5 with a camera that has that ability.

I have proven to myself that IF I take the same picture using the higher resolution modes, AND bring it into PS and then downsize it and then sharpen it that the results are good. But that is a lot of extra work when compared to before.

I recently purchased a G5 for my wife

That's good you provided the sample. I am not sure wether you use
word sharpness instead of contrast.
I see the following problems:

• poorly diffused inadequate lighting. If you want have best of the

best and yet free, have norhern sky behind you. That's it!.

• too low depth of field. Small tripod may be very useful.
• try to shoot witth exposure bias set to at least (-)1/3 up to

(-)1. Also spot metering may be helpful. It will improve contrast.

• do not forget about close-up feauture ( flower button).
• Is it postprocessing an evil? Probably the same program, you use

for cropping has such common controls, as unsharp mask, levels,
contrast and brightness.
(aar)

 

[Eric Haglund]

The Fuji P&S cameras tend to be more aggresive at in-camera sharpening, that' may be a better choice given the circumstances.

--
Eric, Snapshooter
DSixty, GTwo, Four20EX, Fuji 38Hundred
http://www.pbase.com/haglunde

I recently purchased a G5 for my wife (I have a D60 since the
beginning). I was actually looking for a really good P&S camera.
The main use is to quickly and easily obtain closeups of glass
jewelry items that the wife makes and sells on eBay.

I read Phil's review and many of the reviews here by other
customers. Everybody seemed pretty happy with the G5. I've also
done a forum search on sharpness for the G5 and didn't come up with
much.

Given the intended P&S use of the camera, I was hoping to obtain
useful shots right of the camera. When the wife first tried it,
her reaction was that this thing won't focus, send it back. She's
comparing it to her Kodak DC290 which the G5 was intended to
retire. She has a weekly ritual of eBay picture taking that has
been going on for 4 or 5 years now.

After much experimentation last night with all of the many relevant
settings and combinations, I have come to the conclusion that the
in-camera sharpening, even when set on max, is rather weak for a
P&S. Especially on small, superfine. Overall, the results are
comparable to the out of camera shots from my D60, but with the
D60, the design intent was to use post processing to finish the
job. My experiments included manual focus, and intentionally back
and front focussing to be assured that wasn't an issue.

When I took photos in the larger formats and then took them into
Photoshop and do my usual D60 ritual, the end results were just
fine.

My question is: Is this the usual experience with the G5 (softness)?
And if so, what P&S camera is recommended for good, easy closeups
with little postprocessing other than cropping?

Here is an example right out of the camera, where my intent was
ONLY to test the camera for sharpness as explained above.
F3, 1/60s, auto flash, max zoom, macro, single shot focus, iso50,
640x480, superfine, sharpness set on standard.

 

[Kanji126598]

I have the Canon G3, not the G5 and so can only speak to the G3's abilities. First I absolutely love the G3's ability to render a beatiful picture, and I have never found a better camera.However,I have found that it does not equal the 4MP Olympus c4000 for closeup pictures of items that I put up on ebay. The closeup pictures of instruments,watches etc are extremely crisp, snappy and clear. You might take a look at that camera for your application.

 

[critter1]

Forbes,

Thanks for your suggestions. I had already tried all of them though before posting the first time. Spent several hours playing with this problem on a couple of different nights.

Lens is clean and not smudged.
In camera sharpening did not improve the situation much.
Macro mode is required at this distance (camera to subject).
Camera indicates focus and exposure is locked.
Not using multi point.

Tried manual focus experiments extensively, manually moving in and out. The example given is typical of the best it gets for sharpness.

I also combined this with full manual mode and ran the exposure (f, speed, iso, flash power) through the full range of combinations.

A Kodak DC290 takes the same picture fine under the same conditions.

The goal was to find a replacement for the DC290 that does not demand additional steps in the work flow. That's why I was asking for other G5 owners to post a picture taken under similar conditions as my example

(about 16 inches, max zoom, macro on, low ambient light, onboard flash, 640x480 res, object was about 2 inches long and fills the frame)

So far, only one has provided a similar picture, and this picture shows the same lack of sharpness to my eyes at least.

Outdoor, regular pictures look fine to me, with fine contrast, sharpness, etc. However, the main use of this camera will be to take pictures under the conditions of the example where the DC290 has been a fine performer.

Bill

You can use in camera sharpening if you wish, but it is easy to
post-edit some Unsharp Mask into each shot, in Elements. Canon is
known for softer pics (end results are better this way) but the
sample I saw of yours seems out of focus. Maybe asked already, but
is shooter using half-click of shutter, one-box focusing, green box
and "2-beeps" indicating exposure and focus lock, first, before
taking the shot? Would not recommend multi-point focusing for this
work. Lens is clean, right?

Half click and confirmation noise is critical otherwise shot is not
set up.
Macro mode is critical (required for closeup confirmation, anyway).

My G5 takes superbly focused pictures, closeup or distance.

Images straight out of G5 would normally appear very sharp and
pleasing with good contrast. Lack of contrast in your shot makes it
appear to me that lens is smudged.

I recently purchased a G5 for my wife (I have a D60 since the
beginning). I was actually looking for a really good P&S camera.
The main use is to quickly and easily obtain closeups of glass
jewelry items that the wife makes and sells on eBay.

I read Phil's review and many of the reviews here by other
customers. Everybody seemed pretty happy with the G5. I've also
done a forum search on sharpness for the G5 and didn't come up with
much.

Given the intended P&S use of the camera, I was hoping to obtain
useful shots right of the camera. When the wife first tried it,
her reaction was that this thing won't focus, send it back. She's
comparing it to her Kodak DC290 which the G5 was intended to
retire. She has a weekly ritual of eBay picture taking that has
been going on for 4 or 5 years now.

After much experimentation last night with all of the many relevant
settings and combinations, I have come to the conclusion that the
in-camera sharpening, even when set on max, is rather weak for a
P&S. Especially on small, superfine. Overall, the results are
comparable to the out of camera shots from my D60, but with the
D60, the design intent was to use post processing to finish the
job. My experiments included manual focus, and intentionally back
and front focussing to be assured that wasn't an issue.

When I took photos in the larger formats and then took them into
Photoshop and do my usual D60 ritual, the end results were just
fine.

My question is: Is this the usual experience with the G5 (softness)?
And if so, what P&S camera is recommended for good, easy closeups
with little postprocessing other than cropping?

Here is an example right out of the camera, where my intent was
ONLY to test the camera for sharpness as explained above.
F3, 1/60s, auto flash, max zoom, macro, single shot focus, iso50,
640x480, superfine, sharpness set on standard.

--
http://www.DForbesRowanPhotos.OrangeCountyandSurrounding.PhotoShare.co.nz
A-Eighty: It's a really neat camera, even if it's not black.

Gee-Five: What a fine camera, too, with some great features -- and
it's black!
(There! Now I can't be accused of harming newbie camera searches).
D. F. R.

 

[critter1]

Thank you Kanji.
These closeups were right out of the camera using a lower resolution setting?

I have the Canon G3, not the G5 and so can only speak to the G3's
abilities. First I absolutely love the G3's ability to render a
beatiful picture, and I have never found a better camera.However,I
have found that it does not equal the 4MP Olympus c4000 for closeup
pictures of items that I put up on ebay. The closeup pictures of
instruments,watches etc are extremely crisp, snappy and clear. You
might take a look at that camera for your application.

 

[critter1]

Thanks Eric.
Any particular model?

--
Eric, Snapshooter
DSixty, GTwo, Four20EX, Fuji 38Hundred
http://www.pbase.com/haglunde

I recently purchased a G5 for my wife (I have a D60 since the
beginning). I was actually looking for a really good P&S camera.
The main use is to quickly and easily obtain closeups of glass
jewelry items that the wife makes and sells on eBay.

I read Phil's review and many of the reviews here by other
customers. Everybody seemed pretty happy with the G5. I've also
done a forum search on sharpness for the G5 and didn't come up with
much.

Given the intended P&S use of the camera, I was hoping to obtain
useful shots right of the camera. When the wife first tried it,
her reaction was that this thing won't focus, send it back. She's
comparing it to her Kodak DC290 which the G5 was intended to
retire. She has a weekly ritual of eBay picture taking that has
been going on for 4 or 5 years now.

After much experimentation last night with all of the many relevant
settings and combinations, I have come to the conclusion that the
in-camera sharpening, even when set on max, is rather weak for a
P&S. Especially on small, superfine. Overall, the results are
comparable to the out of camera shots from my D60, but with the
D60, the design intent was to use post processing to finish the
job. My experiments included manual focus, and intentionally back
and front focussing to be assured that wasn't an issue.

When I took photos in the larger formats and then took them into
Photoshop and do my usual D60 ritual, the end results were just
fine.

My question is: Is this the usual experience with the G5 (softness)?
And if so, what P&S camera is recommended for good, easy closeups
with little postprocessing other than cropping?

Here is an example right out of the camera, where my intent was
ONLY to test the camera for sharpness as explained above.
F3, 1/60s, auto flash, max zoom, macro, single shot focus, iso50,
640x480, superfine, sharpness set on standard.

 

[Eric Haglund]

I only know from experience with our 3800 and from reading reviews that Fuji tends to sharpen aggressively.

As far as specific models, perhaps start by taking a look at the S5000. My experience has been that the Fuji's meter very well and take sharp, saturated pics. I very rarely use USM on pics taken with the 3800. My only beef with our 3800 is that the flesh tones can sometimes be off but whether that applies to the S5000, S7000 I'm not sure.

--
Eric, Snapshooter
DSixty, GTwo, Four20EX, Fuji 38Hundred
http://www.pbase.com/haglunde

--
Eric, Snapshooter
DSixty, GTwo, Four20EX, Fuji 38Hundred
http://www.pbase.com/haglunde

I recently purchased a G5 for my wife (I have a D60 since the
beginning). I was actually looking for a really good P&S camera.
The main use is to quickly and easily obtain closeups of glass
jewelry items that the wife makes and sells on eBay.

I read Phil's review and many of the reviews here by other
customers. Everybody seemed pretty happy with the G5. I've also
done a forum search on sharpness for the G5 and didn't come up with
much.

Given the intended P&S use of the camera, I was hoping to obtain
useful shots right of the camera. When the wife first tried it,
her reaction was that this thing won't focus, send it back. She's
comparing it to her Kodak DC290 which the G5 was intended to
retire. She has a weekly ritual of eBay picture taking that has
been going on for 4 or 5 years now.

After much experimentation last night with all of the many relevant
settings and combinations, I have come to the conclusion that the
in-camera sharpening, even when set on max, is rather weak for a
P&S. Especially on small, superfine. Overall, the results are
comparable to the out of camera shots from my D60, but with the
D60, the design intent was to use post processing to finish the
job. My experiments included manual focus, and intentionally back
and front focussing to be assured that wasn't an issue.

When I took photos in the larger formats and then took them into
Photoshop and do my usual D60 ritual, the end results were just
fine.

My question is: Is this the usual experience with the G5 (softness)?
And if so, what P&S camera is recommended for good, easy closeups
with little postprocessing other than cropping?

Here is an example right out of the camera, where my intent was
ONLY to test the camera for sharpness as explained above.
F3, 1/60s, auto flash, max zoom, macro, single shot focus, iso50,
640x480, superfine, sharpness set on standard.

 

[Kanji126598]

Hi,yes I just took the picture several times until I got it the way I wanted,cropped it,etc and then did the "save for web" in the photo editing software. The pics were sharp and crisp and clear. I have the G3 as mentioned and the Olympus 5050 and IMHO,the Olympus 4000 beats both for clsoeups and the price is good also. Mind you, the camera was not the best for scenics and such,but excellent for ebay closeups.

 

[Forbes]

be at maximum for doing macros. WA is best in my opinion. Don't use max.

I just made two, one with zoom and one with camera close to subject no zoom. The shot with zoom was less clear than the other one.
Don F.
Choose a distance camera to subject that works best, minimize the zoom.

Forbes,
Thanks for your suggestions. I had already tried all of them
though before posting the first time. Spent several hours playing
with this problem on a couple of different nights.

--
http://www.DForbesRowanPhotos.OrangeCountyandSurrounding.PhotoShare.co.nz
A-Eighty: It's a really neat camera, even if it's not black.

Gee-Five: What a fine camera, too, with some great features -- and it's black!
(There! Now I can't be accused of harming newbie camera searches).
D. F. R.

 

[critter1]

Forbes:
OK. Thanks. I haven't tried that particular experiment.
Tonight.

Forbes,
Thanks for your suggestions. I had already tried all of them
though before posting the first time. Spent several hours playing
with this problem on a couple of different nights.

--
http://www.DForbesRowanPhotos.OrangeCountyandSurrounding.PhotoShare.co.nz
A-Eighty: It's a really neat camera, even if it's not black.

Gee-Five: What a fine camera, too, with some great features -- and
it's black!
(There! Now I can't be accused of harming newbie camera searches).
D. F. R.

 

[aar]

The flash itself is very, very, very short,

1.For example flash duration of the Vivitar 283 (the most popular flash ever) range between 1/1000 and 1/10,000 of a second.
In practice time is not relevant , aperture is the most important.

By the way: I encourage to practice beauty of long exposures mixed with flash with the use of and feautures.

2. Just checked the Manual: the fastest shutter speed for correct sync: 1/250sec. - exactly as in the analog SLR's

3. In the cameras such as G5 , the on-board flash should be used as a last resort. Everyone, anytime looks as a party animal at 3AM....

 

[aar]

aar: My only interest in this thread is the lack of sharpness for
the conditions given.

Kanji gave you much more understanding advice, I agree with.

However I would still recommend to resign from on board flash to make an item as attractive as it really is. If the available daylight is out of discussion,third party flash with bounce capability cost ca $30.

Option C: at Costco I found a $20 worklight using a bulb with power consumption 60 Watt ,light output equal 350 Watt ant light tempeature about 6,000 degree Kelvin. 10 years ago a setup with such parameters cost thousands.
(aar)

 

[critter1]

aar:
I appreciate all suggestions given. Thank you for yours.
I just didn't want the thread to stray off of the sharpness issue.
I didn't get a chance to test anymore last night.
But I will.

Bill

aar: My only interest in this thread is the lack of sharpness for
the conditions given.

Kanji gave you much more understanding advice, I agree with.
However I would still recommend to resign from on board flash to
make an item as attractive as it really is. If the available
daylight is out of discussion,third party flash with bounce
capability cost ca $30.
Option C: at Costco I found a $20 worklight using a bulb with
power consumption 60 Watt ,light output equal 350 Watt ant light
tempeature about 6,000 degree Kelvin. 10 years ago a setup with
such parameters cost thousands.
(aar)

 

[Forbes]

the pics should be at a larger size then quickly reduced in Photoshop or something like it that's easy. They can quickly be sharpened along the way if that's needed. It is no wonder they are not razor sharp. Don F.

Perhaps what would be helpful is that if someone with a G5 could
take and post a similar picture to show that it is possible to do
much better.

Here two pictures for you.....
First one is of 640x480 res. Nothing done to it , only right out of
cam..



The other one was taken at full res. but only cropped .
See its detail. Sorry for wrong side/direction of watch. See the
surface for scratches.... Extereme detail.

The objects are made of colored glass, about 1.5 to 2 inches in size.
The picture was taken at max zoom in macro mode in order to fill
the frame. 640x480 mode was used so that the pictures would be web
ready with only crops in the post processing.

I think the Above two sample pics will help you )

The wife does this for eBay selling of the "jewelry" that she makes.
Each Saturday night, she takes hundreds of pictures of a dozen or
so objects from different angles, and then in a couple of hours
makes up her collages. These then become part of her postings for
Sunday night.

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=tobler&include=0

Good Luck !
Hope this Helps.

--
http://www.DForbesRowanPhotos.OrangeCountyandSurrounding.PhotoShare.co.nz
A-Eighty: It's a really neat camera, even if it's not black.

Gee-Five: What a fine camera, too, with some great features -- and it's black!
(There! Now I can't be accused of harming newbie camera searches).
D. F. R.

 

[critter1]

Except that other cameras do it (like the old DC290).
Aren't technology advances supposed to make things better?

Perhaps what would be helpful is that if someone with a G5 could
take and post a similar picture to show that it is possible to do
much better.

Here two pictures for you.....
First one is of 640x480 res. Nothing done to it , only right out of
cam..



The other one was taken at full res. but only cropped .
See its detail. Sorry for wrong side/direction of watch. See the
surface for scratches.... Extereme detail.

The objects are made of colored glass, about 1.5 to 2 inches in size.
The picture was taken at max zoom in macro mode in order to fill
the frame. 640x480 mode was used so that the pictures would be web
ready with only crops in the post processing.

I think the Above two sample pics will help you )

The wife does this for eBay selling of the "jewelry" that she makes.
Each Saturday night, she takes hundreds of pictures of a dozen or
so objects from different angles, and then in a couple of hours
makes up her collages. These then become part of her postings for
Sunday night.

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=tobler&include=0

Good Luck !
Hope this Helps.

--
http://www.DForbesRowanPhotos.OrangeCountyandSurrounding.PhotoShare.co.nz
A-Eighty: It's a really neat camera, even if it's not black.

Gee-Five: What a fine camera, too, with some great features -- and
it's black!
(There! Now I can't be accused of harming newbie camera searches).
D. F. R.

 

[marlinspike]

With my G5 (and probably with any camera), I find that light is my friend. If you can't get some more light in there (btw, a great place to find out how to do great macro shots is pen websites. http://www.pentrace.com comes to mind. there are some g5 owners who take great macro shots there. i believe they make a light tent out of two 60 watt lamps and a lampshade), try bumping up the flash (it's in teh func. menu). You'll have to be careful not to get too much reflection though.
Richard