Hats Off to Creative MuVo2

[cwmartin]

I know that this will not be popular with the people here, but I am so very happy that Creative Labs has taken action to stop people from pulling Microdrives from their MP3 device and using them in a camera. The way people are reacting to the news that Creative has made a change, you would think that Creative has taken away a "birthright" to get a device at below market value and destroying the reputation of a good company.

I feel that Creative has every right to protect the integrity of their company name by making it unworkable to modify their product. Just imagine you are the person at Creative whom is responsible for customer service. All of a sudden you start getting all sorts of support calls from people who bought MuVo2s on eBay or elsewhere, that either no longer has the factory installed microdrive or now has a small CF card in them. These “customers” now want Creative to provide support on how to install a replacement card or make the one that was already inserted work with firmware that was designed to operate with a 4gb microdrive. If Creative doesn’t respond, they get a bad name for not supporting their product, even though someone else modified it. Regardless the entire MuVo2 line is degraded because people think of it as only protective packaging for a 4 GB Microdrive they want to extract.

Now also imagine being Hitachi. You suddenly have had your entire retail market channel for a product blown away by the fact people are backdooring your product by stripping it out of one of your customer’s products. You have every right to try to protect your retail dealer market by getting an OEM customer to stop allowing the product to be gotten this way.

My hats off to Creative and Hitachi for finally taking action.

 

[rfaster]

I know that this will not be popular with the people here, but I am
so very happy that Creative Labs has taken action to stop people
from pulling Microdrives from their MP3 device and using them in a
camera. The way people are reacting to the news that Creative has
made a change, you would think that Creative has taken away a
"birthright" to get a device at below market value and destroying
the reputation of a good company.

I feel that Creative has every right to protect the integrity of
their company name by making it unworkable to modify their product.
Just imagine you are the person at Creative whom is responsible for
customer service. All of a sudden you start getting all sorts of
support calls from people who bought MuVo2s on eBay or elsewhere,
that either no longer has the factory installed microdrive or now
has a small CF card in them. These “customers” now want Creative to
provide support on how to install a replacement card or make the
one that was already inserted work with firmware that was designed
to operate with a 4gb microdrive. If Creative doesn’t respond, they
get a bad name for not supporting their product, even though
someone else modified it. Regardless the entire MuVo2 line is
degraded because people think of it as only protective packaging
for a 4 GB Microdrive they want to extract.

Now also imagine being Hitachi. You suddenly have had your entire
retail market channel for a product blown away by the fact people
are backdooring your product by stripping it out of one of your
customer’s products. You have every right to try to protect your
retail dealer market by getting an OEM customer to stop allowing
the product to be gotten this way.

My hats off to Creative and Hitachi for finally taking action.

 

[Steve Densmore]

If you don't work for Creative, this has to be the dumbest thing I have ever seen a consumer post.

I know that this will not be popular with the people here, but I am
so very happy that Creative Labs has taken action to stop people
from pulling Microdrives from their MP3 device and using them in a
camera. The way people are reacting to the news that Creative has
made a change, you would think that Creative has taken away a
"birthright" to get a device at below market value and destroying
the reputation of a good company.

I feel that Creative has every right to protect the integrity of
their company name by making it unworkable to modify their product.
Just imagine you are the person at Creative whom is responsible for
customer service. All of a sudden you start getting all sorts of
support calls from people who bought MuVo2s on eBay or elsewhere,
that either no longer has the factory installed microdrive or now
has a small CF card in them. These “customers” now want Creative to
provide support on how to install a replacement card or make the
one that was already inserted work with firmware that was designed
to operate with a 4gb microdrive. If Creative doesn’t respond, they
get a bad name for not supporting their product, even though
someone else modified it. Regardless the entire MuVo2 line is
degraded because people think of it as only protective packaging
for a 4 GB Microdrive they want to extract.

Now also imagine being Hitachi. You suddenly have had your entire
retail market channel for a product blown away by the fact people
are backdooring your product by stripping it out of one of your
customer’s products. You have every right to try to protect your
retail dealer market by getting an OEM customer to stop allowing
the product to be gotten this way.

My hats off to Creative and Hitachi for finally taking action.

 

[Carl Buckley]

Well R.I.P. Creative Muvo2

They don't actually think people will still buy it to listen to mp3's do they??

I can see people who have been caught with these drives selling them on ebay to unlucky buyers hmm bet Hitachi get a bad rap when that happens.. a 4Gb MD from ebay that don't work? still branded Hitachi.

I know that this will not be popular with the people here, but I am
so very happy that Creative Labs has taken action to stop people
from pulling Microdrives from their MP3 device and using them in a
camera. The way people are reacting to the news that Creative has
made a change, you would think that Creative has taken away a
"birthright" to get a device at below market value and destroying
the reputation of a good company.

I feel that Creative has every right to protect the integrity of
their company name by making it unworkable to modify their product.
Just imagine you are the person at Creative whom is responsible for
customer service. All of a sudden you start getting all sorts of
support calls from people who bought MuVo2s on eBay or elsewhere,
that either no longer has the factory installed microdrive or now
has a small CF card in them. These “customers” now want Creative to
provide support on how to install a replacement card or make the
one that was already inserted work with firmware that was designed
to operate with a 4gb microdrive. If Creative doesn’t respond, they
get a bad name for not supporting their product, even though
someone else modified it. Regardless the entire MuVo2 line is
degraded because people think of it as only protective packaging
for a 4 GB Microdrive they want to extract.

Now also imagine being Hitachi. You suddenly have had your entire
retail market channel for a product blown away by the fact people
are backdooring your product by stripping it out of one of your
customer’s products. You have every right to try to protect your
retail dealer market by getting an OEM customer to stop allowing
the product to be gotten this way.

My hats off to Creative and Hitachi for finally taking action.

 

[tcombox]

So you believe Creative have every right to try to protect own market what in relation to us buyers, you don’t feel just rip-off by them.

The product that they sell for $199 is poor designed and unfriendly to operate if creative will not use 4GB Microdrive. I will not pay for that $20 if you see on the package they tell you that it hold 2100 songs sure it will, if you load 1.9 MB song. The average good quality song is 4MB - 5.5MB you can do the math your self how many songs it can truly holds. You can’t operate the player if you don’t take it out from the holder than you have to press the control buttons back and forth a 100 times before you fined what you need.

What abut Hitachi if they sell OEM to Creative and both make money on $199 why they sell just the Microdrive for $499 I saw also on the Canadian sites for $699 CAN this price is ridicules.

The way I see it now a lot of people will loose the job at Creative and Hitachi, because the market for Muvo2 will be dead, and Hitachi will have to lower the price to sell anything

Do we in fact need 4GB Macrodrive? For this price I don’t assume we do, for amateur 1 GB CF it will be better choice, for sure speed and longer live will be beneficial, and if somebody need more, then external storage devices are perfect compare to 4GB. More space 20 GB to 120GB) and the price just above the ground not over the sky as a Microdrive. Don’t forget the old days when you have 24-36 shots on the film, and then few days to know the effect of your work

1GB give you 50-60 shots best quality then transfer them to PC or external storage and start all over again.

Let’s talk about the service maybe will be a perfect idea to designed this product right at first place then nobody will need call the service, don’t forget this is mechanical drive, and how many times you will drop it on the ground when you jogging

Let’s say Creative and Hitachi sacks and I hope that, over this issue there will be some people falling down from the top chairs rather people from the assembly lines.

Sorry if I make this hard to read English is not my first language

 

[Calvin Chann]

The price differntial says something about the inflated price of the Hitachi drive or the huge discount that Creative get for bulk buying.

Either way, I can't see any losers. Creative get a best seller, although for reasons not exaclty like they planned. Hitachi sell many more drives that they would have anyway and we get the storage at a reasonable price.

Those people buying dud MuVo2 online should take it up with ebay or whoever. Surely it is a problem with the seller not describing it properly or their not doing their homework properly. Those who try to get Creative to fix it are just plain stupid, but then again, I have noticed that in North America, the returns policy is a lot looser than it is in Europe. When you buy something, isn't it inherent on you to know what you are buying?

So you believe Creative have every right to try to protect own
market what in relation to us buyers, you don’t feel just rip-off
by them.
The product that they sell for $199 is poor designed and unfriendly
to operate if creative will not use 4GB Microdrive. I will not pay
for that $20 if you see on the package they tell you that it hold
2100 songs sure it will, if you load 1.9 MB song. The average good
quality song is 4MB - 5.5MB you can do the math your self how many
songs it can truly holds. You can’t operate the player if you don’t
take it out from the holder than you have to press the control
buttons back and forth a 100 times before you fined what you need.
What abut Hitachi if they sell OEM to Creative and both make money
on $199 why they sell just the Microdrive for $499 I saw also on
the Canadian sites for $699 CAN this price is ridicules.
The way I see it now a lot of people will loose the job at Creative
and Hitachi, because the market for Muvo2 will be dead, and Hitachi
will have to lower the price to sell anything

Do we in fact need 4GB Macrodrive? For this price I don’t assume we
do, for amateur 1 GB CF it will be better choice, for sure speed
and longer live will be beneficial, and if somebody need more, then
external storage devices are perfect compare to 4GB. More space 20
GB to 120GB) and the price just above the ground not over the sky
as a Microdrive. Don’t forget the old days when you have 24-36
shots on the film, and then few days to know the effect of your work
1GB give you 50-60 shots best quality then transfer them to PC or
external storage and start all over again.
Let’s talk about the service maybe will be a perfect idea to
designed this product right at first place then nobody will need
call the service, don’t forget this is mechanical drive, and how
many times you will drop it on the ground when you jogging

Let’s say Creative and Hitachi sacks and I hope that, over this
issue there will be some people falling down from the top chairs
rather people from the assembly lines.

Sorry if I make this hard to read English is not my first language

--

I don't mean to offend, but if you are offended, then maybe you're too sensitive or I've overdone it.

 

[cwmartin]

No, I actually originally purchased a MuVo2 unit direct from Creative to pull the 4 GB drive out myself. I got one of the early units, with a drive that could be used in my Fuji S2 Pro. I wanted to make sure the unit worked properly BEFORE I voided any warranty by pulling the drive, so I started using it as an MP3, like Creative designed it to be used. After a week of use like this, I decided NOT to pull the drive, but to continue using the unit as an MP3 player. Instead, I have 3.5 gb worth of CF cards that are designed to be used in my DSLR.

My point is that Creative has every right to see to it that their products are used as designed and not used as "parts bins". Do you think people would give GM and Ford such a hard time if people bought new cars just to strip them for parts and GM/Ford took steps to curb that. After all it is a lot cheaper to buy a whole car that buy all the parts that make up one. So why wouldn't enterprising people buy a new car to get a major part they need and then sell of the remainder as parts and save money that way.

 

[cwmartin]

Have you looked on Amazon.com lately? They have these modified units listed as "NEW". Then these units get sold and the consumer who thought they were getting a good deal on an MP3 player gets stuck with a unit that won't work cause it has no memory, or a unit that doesn't meet the manufacturers specs and has a voided warrenty. All the time thinking they bought a "NEW" unit.

So let me ask, are you the same people who haven't figured out that sometimes it is cheaper to buy a whole new inkjet printer (especially on model closeout) than buy replacement ink cartridges for one? Is it right to throw a new printer into a landfill just to save a few bucks on replacement ink?

Either way, I can't see any losers. Creative get a best seller,
although for reasons not exaclty like they planned. Hitachi sell
many more drives that they would have anyway and we get the storage
at a reasonable price.

Those people buying dud MuVo2 online should take it up with ebay or
whoever. Surely it is a problem with the seller not describing it
properly or their not doing their homework properly. Those who try
to get Creative to fix it are just plain stupid, but then again, I
have noticed that in North America, the returns policy is a lot
looser than it is in Europe. When you buy something, isn't it
inherent on you to know what you are buying?

So you believe Creative have every right to try to protect own
market what in relation to us buyers, you don’t feel just rip-off
by them.
The product that they sell for $199 is poor designed and unfriendly
to operate if creative will not use 4GB Microdrive. I will not pay
for that $20 if you see on the package they tell you that it hold
2100 songs sure it will, if you load 1.9 MB song. The average good
quality song is 4MB - 5.5MB you can do the math your self how many
songs it can truly holds. You can’t operate the player if you don’t
take it out from the holder than you have to press the control
buttons back and forth a 100 times before you fined what you need.
What abut Hitachi if they sell OEM to Creative and both make money
on $199 why they sell just the Microdrive for $499 I saw also on
the Canadian sites for $699 CAN this price is ridicules.
The way I see it now a lot of people will loose the job at Creative
and Hitachi, because the market for Muvo2 will be dead, and Hitachi
will have to lower the price to sell anything

Do we in fact need 4GB Macrodrive? For this price I don’t assume we
do, for amateur 1 GB CF it will be better choice, for sure speed
and longer live will be beneficial, and if somebody need more, then
external storage devices are perfect compare to 4GB. More space 20
GB to 120GB) and the price just above the ground not over the sky
as a Microdrive. Don’t forget the old days when you have 24-36
shots on the film, and then few days to know the effect of your work
1GB give you 50-60 shots best quality then transfer them to PC or
external storage and start all over again.
Let’s talk about the service maybe will be a perfect idea to
designed this product right at first place then nobody will need
call the service, don’t forget this is mechanical drive, and how
many times you will drop it on the ground when you jogging

Let’s say Creative and Hitachi sacks and I hope that, over this
issue there will be some people falling down from the top chairs
rather people from the assembly lines.

Sorry if I make this hard to read English is not my first language

--
I don't mean to offend, but if you are offended, then maybe you're
too sensitive or I've overdone it.

 

[Calvin Chann]

They need to be taken to task about it and change their ways, or you don't buy from them again. Keep all documentation, even screen prints until you know everything is OK.

But generally, when it's too good to be true, it generally is. I waited a long time before I MuVo2'd.

As for inkjets, I have only ever bought one, and I am still using it today several years after it was discontinued. I believe that this was down to doing my homework and chosing the right unit.

I even buy genuine replacement cartridges for it.

So let me ask, are you the same people who haven't figured out that
sometimes it is cheaper to buy a whole new inkjet printer
(especially on model closeout) than buy replacement ink cartridges
for one? Is it right to throw a new printer into a landfill just to
save a few bucks on replacement ink?

Either way, I can't see any losers. Creative get a best seller,
although for reasons not exaclty like they planned. Hitachi sell
many more drives that they would have anyway and we get the storage
at a reasonable price.

Those people buying dud MuVo2 online should take it up with ebay or
whoever. Surely it is a problem with the seller not describing it
properly or their not doing their homework properly. Those who try
to get Creative to fix it are just plain stupid, but then again, I
have noticed that in North America, the returns policy is a lot
looser than it is in Europe. When you buy something, isn't it
inherent on you to know what you are buying?

So you believe Creative have every right to try to protect own
market what in relation to us buyers, you don’t feel just rip-off
by them.
The product that they sell for $199 is poor designed and unfriendly
to operate if creative will not use 4GB Microdrive. I will not pay
for that $20 if you see on the package they tell you that it hold
2100 songs sure it will, if you load 1.9 MB song. The average good
quality song is 4MB - 5.5MB you can do the math your self how many
songs it can truly holds. You can’t operate the player if you don’t
take it out from the holder than you have to press the control
buttons back and forth a 100 times before you fined what you need.
What abut Hitachi if they sell OEM to Creative and both make money
on $199 why they sell just the Microdrive for $499 I saw also on
the Canadian sites for $699 CAN this price is ridicules.
The way I see it now a lot of people will loose the job at Creative
and Hitachi, because the market for Muvo2 will be dead, and Hitachi
will have to lower the price to sell anything

Do we in fact need 4GB Macrodrive? For this price I don’t assume we
do, for amateur 1 GB CF it will be better choice, for sure speed
and longer live will be beneficial, and if somebody need more, then
external storage devices are perfect compare to 4GB. More space 20
GB to 120GB) and the price just above the ground not over the sky
as a Microdrive. Don’t forget the old days when you have 24-36
shots on the film, and then few days to know the effect of your work
1GB give you 50-60 shots best quality then transfer them to PC or
external storage and start all over again.
Let’s talk about the service maybe will be a perfect idea to
designed this product right at first place then nobody will need
call the service, don’t forget this is mechanical drive, and how
many times you will drop it on the ground when you jogging

Let’s say Creative and Hitachi sacks and I hope that, over this
issue there will be some people falling down from the top chairs
rather people from the assembly lines.

Sorry if I make this hard to read English is not my first language

--
I don't mean to offend, but if you are offended, then maybe you're
too sensitive or I've overdone it.

--

I don't mean to offend, but if you are offended, then maybe you're too sensitive or I've overdone it.

 

[damonff]

Rehash: ( from a disappointed person who's been waiting...)

They're not going to sell any MuVo2s now...they'll be collecting dust soon...

Why is it so bad to sell your product when everyone is happy? Were they losing money before? Of course they weren't...

Time to buy a 512 card for $100, or maybe 2...

Dusty, dusty third rate mp3 players sitting on shelves FOREVER...

 

[mmurph]

Have you ever priced a Mamiya 7II in the U.S.? How about the UK?

Why is it 1/2 the price in the UK as the U.S.? Guess we are all better photographers in the U.S. and can make much more money with it ;> )

Of course 50 years ago very few would ever figure out the price disparity, much less know where in the UK to order, or how to import a camera.

Same with Hitachi and the MuVo.

FWIW though, I'd rather spend $260 on a Gmini with a 20gb hard disk than $200-$220 on a Muvo with a 4gb if I needed an MP3 player. Those markets move quickly too! The Muvo is almost obsolete at it's current price point. Do I hear $150?

M.

 

[dbevis]

no, really, "nt"

 

[mmurph]

Have you ever priced a Mamiya 7II in the U.S.? How about the UK?

Guess they've corrected that one! I have B&H at $1,400 and Robert White at $1,220 U.S. for a body.

5 years ago I bought two bodies in the UK for the price of 1 in the US.

Been digital for 1 1/2 years ;> )

M.

Have you ever priced a Mamiya 7II in the U.S.? How about the UK?

Why is it 1/2 the price in the UK as the U.S.? Guess we are all
better photographers in the U.S. and can make much more money with
it ;> )

Of course 50 years ago very few would ever figure out the price
disparity, much less know where in the UK to order, or how to
import a camera.

Same with Hitachi and the MuVo.

FWIW though, I'd rather spend $260 on a Gmini with a 20gb hard disk
than $200-$220 on a Muvo with a 4gb if I needed an MP3 player.
Those markets move quickly too! The Muvo is almost obsolete at
it's current price point. Do I hear $150?

M.

 

[Calvin Chann]

Or if you turn the argument around, car parts are way too expensive.

No, I actually originally purchased a MuVo2 unit direct from
Creative to pull the 4 GB drive out myself. I got one of the early
units, with a drive that could be used in my Fuji S2 Pro. I wanted
to make sure the unit worked properly BEFORE I voided any warranty
by pulling the drive, so I started using it as an MP3, like
Creative designed it to be used. After a week of use like this, I
decided NOT to pull the drive, but to continue using the unit as an
MP3 player. Instead, I have 3.5 gb worth of CF cards that are
designed to be used in my DSLR.

My point is that Creative has every right to see to it that their
products are used as designed and not used as "parts bins". Do you
think people would give GM and Ford such a hard time if people
bought new cars just to strip them for parts and GM/Ford took steps
to curb that. After all it is a lot cheaper to buy a whole car that
buy all the parts that make up one. So why wouldn't enterprising
people buy a new car to get a major part they need and then sell of
the remainder as parts and save money that way.

--

I don't mean to offend, but if you are offended, then maybe you're too sensitive or I've overdone it.

 

[exe]

Firstly, it's not Creative dictating the modification of the drive, it is Hitachi.

Secondly, the same exact microdrive that you can pull out of the Muvo, is also for sale by Hitachi for $500, thus your analysis of an improper use of the microdive is also flawed.

But I do respect your right in using the product for its intended purpose, which is: the ability to connect to your PC and transfer music AND data files, meaning including picture files, to your device, along with music playback. I suspect if you were to buy an SUV, it would be driven mostly off road. And your Timberland boots on difficult terrain. Your baseball cap when you play baseball and on and on...

I also respect other people's choices to do what they want with the products they buy.

 

[jandu]

To me a better way for creative is to re-engineer the drive so the 4 gig drive can easily be swapped.

If I were Creative, I would make the drive in such a way that I can swap the CF drive/card easily. I'll sell the drive +the 4 gig drive for another $50. That way, people can use it for camera, MP3 or whatever. Or they can swap a 512 card in there if needed be.

I can bet you that, it will sell even better than before. Not the way they're heading now.

This way, it takes care of the consumer, Creative, and Hitachi. A more popular product, in my opinion, is better for all involved.

 

[gwprovost]

...this has to be the dumbest thing I have ever seen a consumer post

Exactly my sentiments. If it's true that the drives can no longer be cannibalized, then Creative will sell a lot fewer of their crappy MP3 players and Hitachi still won't sell any more $500 drives. So who's the winner?

If I bought it, I own it and can do what I want with it. What's next, Creative tells you what kind of music you're allowed to play in their machine? Ridiculous.

 

[Jola233979]

Is it right to throw a new printer into a landfill just to
save a few bucks on replacement ink?

This concept bothers me, but what can you do if that's how they price it?

I bought an Epson for exactly this reason (ie just for the ink), but before I could remove the ink and throw it away I changed plans and sold it to a co-worker (for what I paid for it).

 

[StephensonC]

AMEN!!! My sentiments exactly.

Firstly, it's not Creative dictating the modification of the drive,
it is Hitachi.

Secondly, the same exact microdrive that you can pull out of the
Muvo, is also for sale by Hitachi for $500, thus your analysis of
an improper use of the microdive is also flawed.

But I do respect your right in using the product for its intended
purpose, which is: the ability to connect to your PC and transfer
music AND data files, meaning including picture files, to your
device, along with music playback. I suspect if you were to buy an
SUV, it would be driven mostly off road. And your Timberland boots
on difficult terrain. Your baseball cap when you play baseball and
on and on...

I also respect other people's choices to do what they want with the
products they buy.

--
Three days of testing can save 10 minutes reading the Manual.

 

[Snufkin]

Firstly, a response to cwmartin: creative could have easily made the firmware check if a 4GB microdrive was fitted. They didn't, and haven't released an update that does, so I figure they aren't too fussed about all the warranty voiding going on. Less work for them if the switches stop working or the headphone socket fails. The only people who ought to be giving two hoots about people getting half price microdrives are those at Hitachi. Since it's the microdrive that changed then I would imagine there've been some interesting discussions between Creative and Hitachi (along the lines of: 'Use this new part, or start paying consumer price for the microdrive').

Oh, and anyone who thinks that Creative is a bad company for not supporting demicrodrived MuVo²s is being daft.

Secondly:
http://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk/shop/product_info.php?products_id=220
Looks like Creative may have missed the 'upgradeable mp3 player' boat already.

I was wondering about hacking the MuVo to make the drive removable, but it would involve attaching a longer drive cable and cutting a hole in the casing. Any suggestions for a good forum to discuss something like this (it being slightly off-topic for a digital camera storage forum)?

Cheers,

Paul.

To me a better way for creative is to re-engineer the drive so the
4 gig drive can easily be swapped.

If I were Creative, I would make the drive in such a way that I can
swap the CF drive/card easily. I'll sell the drive +the 4 gig drive
for another $50. That way, people can use it for camera, MP3 or
whatever. Or they can swap a 512 card in there if needed be.

I can bet you that, it will sell even better than before. Not the
way they're heading now.

This way, it takes care of the consumer, Creative, and Hitachi. A
more popular product, in my opinion, is better for all involved.