Finally got a lette back from canon..........

[Dave Lewis]

How can you say that 100s of posts in this and other forums are a
waste of space? COuld it not be that people write about it because
they are concerned?

Well you have answered your question, mind your own business.

--
Yiannis

But don't you see, it is my business, because it has systematically destroyed a lively, vital, enthusiastic forum. There are dozens of us who have voiced our displeasure at the ongoing indictment of Canon and the Rebel D. We have asked that it be somehow brought to an end over and over again, yet it continues.

I find it discouraging that new folks come to this forum only to be turned away by negativism. Not only turned away from a potentially fine forum but an obviously fine camera.

There has been no good come from these threads and there never will be. Canon holds them with no regard and the rest of us hold them in contempt.
--
Dave Lewis

 

[Sam Bennett]

How can you say that 100s of posts in this and other forums are a
waste of space? COuld it not be that people write about it because
they are concerned?

Well you have answered your question, mind your own business.

--
Yiannis

But don't you see, it is my business, because it has systematically
destroyed a lively, vital, enthusiastic forum. There are dozens of
us who have voiced our displeasure at the ongoing indictment of
Canon and the Rebel D. We have asked that it be somehow brought to
an end over and over again, yet it continues.

I find it discouraging that new folks come to this forum only to be
turned away by negativism. Not only turned away from a potentially
fine forum but an obviously fine camera.

There has been no good come from these threads and there never will
be. Canon holds them with no regard and the rest of us hold them in
contempt.
--
Dave Lewis

--

Sam Bennett - Photo Guy, Audio Engineer and Web-Apper - http://www.swiftbennett.com

 

[Sam Bennett]

IIRC I recall correctly the original poster wishes to prevent the camera from going into AI servo mode. He wants to be able to override the AI focus' tendency to drop into AI servo mode when the focus ring is used.

I really dont know anything about Full time AI Servo stuff. But,
does this link help with anything at all??

http://www.xmldatabases.org/WK/blog/1454_Digital_Rebel_Hack_No._2_-_Full_time_AI_Servo.item

--

Sam Bennett - Photo Guy, Audio Engineer and Web-Apper - http://www.swiftbennett.com

 

[Sam Bennett]

As I think others have pointed out, this "problem" is present on any Canon SLR when it is in AI Focus mode. So there is no defect, there is just a limitation regarding selecting a prefered shooting mode. There's nothing for Canon to "fix", per se.

Personally I don't see how they can say it works fine - there's
clearly a compatibility issue between camera and lens - in this
case, the compatibility problem is with features (FTM), but
still.....i convinced it's a glitch/deficit/whatever that they
couldn't figure out how to fix without changing the focus mode.

I absolutely hate all references to the camera being 'crippled',
but I think that's the only 'crippling' thing about this camera
when it doens't allow you to use a feature of a lens - a feature
you paid money for.

Although, my USM lens is micro USM, not ring USM, thus doesn't have
FTM, so it isn't an issue with me.

--

Sam Bennett - Photo Guy, Audio Engineer and Web-Apper - http://www.swiftbennett.com

 

[PaulyOly]

How can you say that 100s of posts in this and other forums are a
waste of space? COuld it not be that people write about it because
they are concerned?

Well you have answered your question, mind your own business.

--
Yiannis

But don't you see, it is my business, because it has systematically
destroyed a lively, vital, enthusiastic forum. There are dozens of
us who have voiced our displeasure at the ongoing indictment of
Canon and the Rebel D. We have asked that it be somehow brought to
an end over and over again, yet it continues.

I find it discouraging that new folks come to this forum only to be
turned away by negativism. Not only turned away from a potentially
fine forum but an obviously fine camera.

There has been no good come from these threads and there never will
be. Canon holds them with no regard and the rest of us hold them in
contempt.
--
Dave Lewis

You must understand that it is your opinion. I think threads like this are plenty helpful to future buyers, atleast they will be more informed than i was about focus lock and FTM. These are two real issues IMO. It doesn't matter in the long run as i will simply buy the 10d or possibly 1d mkII because canon makes it clear that the rebel line will never have advanced functionality, that's a shame IMO since i really like the size and weight of the camera.
--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

 

[PaulyOly]

What I dont understand is if you think everything is so perfect do
you feel obliged to imply that people whine all the time? Maybe
these are real issues for real people and they dont just whine. Why
do you assume that people whine over nothing when you havent used
FTM with the drebel? Nothing personal here just wanted to make sure
that expecting better from a multibillion company isnt really a big
luxury.

That's fair, I just think the Rebel D negative threads have
dominated this forum for much too long. I think folks coming to the
forum reading these threads are not only turned of by the forum,
but are also turned off by a camera they might not have had their
hands on yet. To suggest that these hair splitting issues that are
so dominant to the few who live them for so much on here should be
the deciding factor for the vast majority that might happen by
here, seems a disservice to them, in my mind. Bottom line is that
probably at least 90% of Rebel D users never have any of the
problems that have so dominated the discussions here since last
September. To me that is leaving the majority of Rebel D users out
of these forums. Someone suggested the negative Rebel D users have
a forum of their own on a Yahoo talk group or some such. That might
not be all that bad an idea.

Maybe Phil, instead of banning the occasional guy who goes off the
deep end here, could have a special forum he could call: "Camera
Bitchers' Forum" . If your post falls into that category you could
be automatically moved to that forum. I imagine every brand would
be adequately represented. (VBG)
--
Dave Lewis

Sensorship is a bad idea Dave. If you don't like something someone says in a post, just don't reply to it and it will disappear. If no one replied to this post it would have died long ago. I for one have never bumped one of my posts.

--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

 

[David Barker91965]

The point is though, Sam, that full time manual focussing is only available on the better lenses - lenses that tend to be used by more experienced photographers. These users want to be able to shoot in Av, Tv or M mode, but find that FTM isn't possible in those modes.

Why make it impossible to avoid AI focus in the 'serious' modes when they are the very modes used by the more 'serious' users? Crazy!

As I think others have pointed out, this "problem" is present on
any Canon SLR when it is in AI Focus mode. So there is no defect,
there is just a limitation regarding selecting a prefered shooting
mode. There's nothing for Canon to "fix", per se.

--
DB

 

[Dave Lewis]

Sensorship is a bad idea Dave. If you don't like something someone
says in a post, just don't reply to it and it will disappear. If
no one replied to this post it would have died long ago. I for one
have never bumped one of my posts.

Yes, I totally agree with that, Pauly. In fact I said it myself just the other day in regard to some folks continuing to feed Stan. I am disturbed that so many of these threads have come along, though. The bottom line with the Rebel D is that it is a very successful camera that all of us, even you, have been very pleased with. To the new visitor, though, looking for reasons to buy it or not or reasons to participate here, these threads are very repelling. I think the good of society has always subscribed to self sensorship when it is for the good of the majority. The predominence of these negative posts has not been good for the majority here, in my mind.

All that said, I applaud you for doing what you think is right in letting Canon know how you feel about aspects of the Rebel D that you think are inadequate. The camera has served me well, but apparently hasn't served you well and you certainly have the right to let Canon know that. I do think there has to be a line drawn, though, beyond which these threads shouldn't go. I think they have passed that line by now.

I have chosen to participate in only a few of these threads. When I participate, I usually pursue my thoughts to some kind of a realistic end. Perhaps I am at that end now.
--
Dave Lewis

 

[Dave Lewis]

That focus lock is an advanced functionality? Why does everyone
who says something negative about this stupid camera have to be
labeled a whiner or complainer? From now on anyone who says
anything negative about one of my posts is a whiner and will be
labeled as such.

Back in early September when the Rebel D was first announced but hadn't gotten to the dealers yet, a thread began regarding that very issue. Some regarded it as a deal breaker for the Rebel D. Some went to stores and tried the film version and found it to be workable. The camera was previewed and the switch to AlServo was discussed and regarded as being a workable situation. The camera was released, Phil tested it and regarded it as a workable situation. Thousands of users have enjoyed the camera since mid September, including myself, and the majority have found it to be a workable situation. It has just been recently, in fact this is really the only thread I've read, though, I'm sure there have been others, that the issue of AlServo kicking in with the use of the manual focusing ring on some USM lenses while auto focus is active, has been brought to light. I never thought of that and probably most folks didn't either because the kit lens is not a USM full time manual focus lens. As I said in another post here, the vast majority of Rebel D users will never even know about the issue with USM lenses and their full time manual focusing rings. Even folks like me who have several such lenses will probably never bother to fine tune focus with the ring because auto focus works so much better than my eye does with an almost totally clear focusing screen.

My point, Pauly, is that the issue you are hammering so hard is such a remote issue to the majority of Rebel D owners that I'm sure they will go through their whole tenure with the camera and never have any idea that it even exists. To labor it so hard and get so worked up allowing yourself to regard everybody as labeling you as a whinner is really terribly counterproductive.

The bottom line is that you have found an aspect of the Rebel D that is inadequate for you. You have already stated that you will down the road move on to a 10D because of it. That only makes sense. In fact all of the issues folks have with the Rebel D can be adequately addressed with the 10D. Canon said it themselves in their letter to you, and you have just admitted you too will have to move on to a 10D. So why in the world labor all of this. Why not just let it die, so that the forum can move on to more positive things.
--
Dave Lewis

 

[Another birder]

Their answer is clear enough. If you want the "advanced" features
you need to buy their more expensive camera.

Or buy from their competitiors.

The only thing that will change their mine is a competitor who
forces their hand.

When camera manufacturers make a budget line they KNOW they are
making a budget line. The PURPOSEFULLY do not put in all the
features of their high end equipment.

We'll have to wait for a hack.

Well I would hardly call being able to focus and recompose an 'Advanced' feature. Every AF camera I have owned has been able to do that.

--
http://www.pbase.com/timothyo

 

[Ken Clifford]

That focus lock is an advanced functionality? Why does everyone
who says something negative about this stupid camera have to be
labeled a whiner or complainer? From now on anyone who says
anything negative about one of my posts is a whiner and will be
labeled as such.

Back in early September when the Rebel D was first announced but
hadn't gotten to the dealers yet, a thread began regarding that
very issue. Some regarded it as a deal breaker for the Rebel D.
Some went to stores and tried the film version and found it to be
workable. The camera was previewed and the switch to AlServo was
discussed and regarded as being a workable situation. The camera
was released, Phil tested it and regarded it as a workable
situation. Thousands of users have enjoyed the camera since mid
September, including myself, and the majority have found it to be a
workable situation. It has just been recently, in fact this is
really the only thread I've read, though, I'm sure there have been
others, that the issue of AlServo kicking in with the use of the
manual focusing ring on some USM lenses while auto focus is active,
has been brought to light. I never thought of that and probably
most folks didn't either because the kit lens is not a USM full
time manual focus lens. As I said in another post here, the vast
majority of Rebel D users will never even know about the issue with
USM lenses and their full time manual focusing rings. Even folks
like me who have several such lenses will probably never bother to
fine tune focus with the ring because auto focus works so much
better than my eye does with an almost totally clear focusing
screen.

My point, Pauly, is that the issue you are hammering so hard is
such a remote issue to the majority of Rebel D owners that I'm sure
they will go through their whole tenure with the camera and never
have any idea that it even exists. To labor it so hard and get so
worked up allowing yourself to regard everybody as labeling you as
a whinner is really terribly counterproductive.

The bottom line is that you have found an aspect of the Rebel D
that is inadequate for you. You have already stated that you will
down the road move on to a 10D because of it. That only makes
sense. In fact all of the issues folks have with the Rebel D can be
adequately addressed with the 10D. Canon said it themselves in
their letter to you, and you have just admitted you too will have
to move on to a 10D. So why in the world labor all of this. Why not
just let it die, so that the forum can move on to more positive
things.
--
Dave Lewis

Ken C
--

http://www.pbase.com/photonouveau

Long live monochrome. What would Ansel Adams have produced with the 300D (or Rebel if you like).

 

[clickiddy-click-click]

Canon intentionally produced a "feature impaired" camera knowing that we would be buying 2 or 3 more lenses for it. Once we buy those extra lenses they know we wont jump ship to a competitor (and have to buy those same equiv lenses again), we will be locked into canon. If we want more features we will need to buy a more expensive camera body.

A very shrewd marketing move.

c-c-c

Or buy from their competitiors.

The only thing that will change their mine is a competitor who
forces their hand.

When camera manufacturers make a budget line they KNOW they are
making a budget line. The PURPOSEFULLY do not put in all the
features of their high end equipment.

We'll have to wait for a hack.

Lee

This is outrageous. It wasn't designed to have advanced
functionality? maybe they should advertise that too.

Do we need to send Mr Uchida a few more letters?

Yiannis

Canon Magnifier S
EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6
EF 50mm f/1.4

Dignity consists not in possessing honors, but in the consciousness
that we deserve them. Aristotle

he will not recieve them. I'm going to try one of the other
managers listed on their website. I just want to be able to
recompose my shot in peace.
--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

--
http://www.the-travelling-kiwi.smugmug.com

 

[icmp]

I have also contacted Canon about this, and a couple of other issues I'd like to see modified. Nothing I would call 'deal breakers' for my overall ability to use the Camera as intended, but simple things that would add intrinsic value to an already great value in a DSLR.

Frankly, nailing a 'feature' like AI-Servo into various modes with no ability to change it isn't a customer-focused decision. Their letter is not customer-focused, either. It's not like someone is looking to ADD a feature that's missing.. only to allow the disabling or selecting of features already present. Flexibility in using the available features in a manner consistent with one's own preferences.

I've alwasy found it incredibly bad judgement for a vendor to include features and then controls over those features, only to then dictate when and where you can use them. I could understand perfectly if a feature was excluded in a mode, for example, because it interfered with the intended function of that mode (fulltime AI-Servo = sports.. so, why bother to offer single shot).. but, when you offer creative modes and controls over available functions, it's a pretty lame marketing decision to then decide "hey, let's make them use this.. whether they like it or not. Why? because it detracts from the value of the camera. That's why". That's bad marketing left unchecked.

Decisions like this serve absolutely no purpose, for the customer. Why even ADD the modes (single/servo) and manual controls if you're only going to dangle them and take them away on marketing's whimsical logic of it being 'too much camera for the money if we let the user have choice in these modes'?. It's something they should rightly provide control over. Period. Without restrictions. But they won't, for fear they'd lose precious sales to the 10D. Which is again, lame logic. The 10D is in a different class for alot more reasons that selectable focus modes. Black, better build, FEC, Mirror lock-up, etc. Idiots.

Ok, I'm done.. again, I'm extremely happy with the camera.. factoring in cost, I'm well please with the value. But, it's frustrating to observe the decisions made knowing full well there's no good, sound reasoning why some of them were made. Canon needs to worry more about something like the D70 taking away 10D sales and quit wetting itself about something as simple as selectable AF modes being a sales sapping feature. Did I say Idiots, already?

icmp

I scanned it and saved it so i wouldn't have to type it.



Unfortunately you can't write directly to the president or to
anyone important for that matter, all mail is redirected to some
customer service rep. that spits out the same cr@p to everyone.
This is what i expected. I will try writing to someone lower on
the totem pole, but i think my only hope is the hackers come up
with a solution to my recomposing problem using the 400 f5.6L. I
wonder if canon will every release a new digital rebel with more
features since it's not intended for advanced funtionality, i'm
guessing they will lower the prices of the rebel and 10d to compete
more closely with the d70 or maybe we will see a different camera.
I'm guessing i will have to get a 10d after this camera.
--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

 

[Another birder]

If you want more features all you need to do is spend some more
bucks. This letter is saying exactly that. There is nothing wrong
with your cameras, they are designed to work that way.

Except that AI-focus does NOT work.

--
http://www.pbase.com/timothyo

 

[Daniella68313]

I am sure you're the one here missing the most photos because of this, due to the type of photos that you take.

Lets just hope that Wasia will manage to fix taht nasty bug eventualy because it is obvious that Canon wont.

If they would only provide a way to disable it totaly in creative
mode instead of imposing a stupid design that does not work.

Good thing there is Wasia and eventualy we'll probably have a hack
for this.

sooo...you should shoot your birds in landscape mode or what?

I scanned it and saved it so i wouldn't have to type it.



Unfortunately you can't write directly to the president or to
anyone important for that matter, all mail is redirected to some
customer service rep. that spits out the same cr@p to everyone.
This is what i expected. I will try writing to someone lower on
the totem pole, but i think my only hope is the hackers come up
with a solution to my recomposing problem using the 400 f5.6L. I
wonder if canon will every release a new digital rebel with more
features since it's not intended for advanced funtionality, i'm
guessing they will lower the prices of the rebel and 10d to compete
more closely with the d70 or maybe we will see a different camera.
I'm guessing i will have to get a 10d after this camera.
--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

I could change the aperture and use exposure comp. Sometimes i can
recompose without Ai servo kicking in, but if i hold the shutter
long enough it will eventually switch to servo mode, I prefocused
on this little green herons head and recomposed while waiting for
him to do his mating call. I probably had to recompose this shot
three times because Ai servo eventually refocused on the birds body
or the stick.



--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

 

[Daniella68313]

Wouldnt it have been better, in this case, to use manual focus? As
the bird isnt moving closer or further away, manual would have kept
it in focus. You could even have AFed initially, then switched to
manual.

the camera does a much better job with focus than i can do. As for
autofocus initially and then switch to manual i thought of that,
but the bird kept moving it's head towards and away from me and
with the shallow dof at this distance i would have got some oof
pics for sure. I will have to try manual focus next time and see
if the pics are any less sharp, but wouldn't you kick yourself if
you got that one perfect pics except your manual focus skills cause
it to be slightly oof?
--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

 

[Daniella68313]

can you show some expemples of this?

it is one thing to manualy focus on a static subject but a moving bird is something else...

I know what you mean. It can be hard to get a good focus while
using that tiny little view-finder. But on the other hand, I've
had good results doing it. Infact, with a Sigma 70-300 at 300mm,
and a tamron 2x TC, I cant AF. Most likely because I cant hold the
camera anywhere near steady enough for the AF to lock. But,
switching to MF, has given some pretty sharp focused pics.

Wouldnt it have been better, in this case, to use manual focus? As
the bird isnt moving closer or further away, manual would have kept
it in focus. You could even have AFed initially, then switched to
manual.

the camera does a much better job with focus than i can do. As for
autofocus initially and then switch to manual i thought of that,
but the bird kept moving it's head towards and away from me and
with the shallow dof at this distance i would have got some oof
pics for sure. I will have to try manual focus next time and see
if the pics are any less sharp, but wouldn't you kick yourself if
you got that one perfect pics except your manual focus skills cause
it to be slightly oof?
--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

 

[Daniella68313]

If you want more features all you need to do is spend some more
bucks. This letter is saying exactly that.

you're wrong..it is not supposed to kick in when you recompose. If you read the manual, they explain that you can focus on your subject and then recompose and take the photo with the AF lock...but that does not work and 60% of the time now I have the AI servo kicking in.

Before my camera almost never kick in..so there are DIFFERENCES between cameras.

There is nothing wrong

with your cameras, they are designed to work that way.

you're wrong again. read the manual.

If you

don’t want Ai-Servo to kick in there is a little switch on
the side of your lens that says “M or MF” that will
allow you to prevent Ai-Servo from being activated.

now that's genius ))

Of course you

can also wait and hope that the hackers can figure out a way to
allow you to manually select the AF mode.

more than likely the only solution we have.

Another option is to get

a long tele lens with the AF stop button on it.

sorry but what are you talking about?

The AF stop button

does work with the Rebel.

Greg

--

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

 

[Daniella68313]

because they don't do much with their camera.

Some people wont even notice if the camera goes into servo or not!

In all fairness, could there be any other answer. Would the CEO
have said it any differently. This forum has cried aloud about the
features the Rebel D is lacking from the first day, when someone
talked of the inconvenience of AlFocus and its automatic switching
to AlServo which has never proved to be a problem to most of us. It
has been all down hill from there with FEC issues paramont along
with the AlServo issues and the never ending focusing issues that
have supposedly plagued EOS digitals from the start.

The bottom line has always been that Canon offers a camera that has
all the features the complainers about the Rebel D have been
moaning about. Why in the world haven't the complainers simply
purchased the 10D like the Canon rep just suggested.

Personally, I bought the 10D when it came out and have used it
little since I bought the Rebel D primarily because the Rebel D is
so much lighter and more convenient for me. It does everything I
have done with the 10D and just as well.

What we have had from the beginning on this forum is a lot of folks
who should have purchased the 10D but didn't and have been second
guessing the Rebel D ever since. I find all that tiring and it has
chased me away from this forum more often than not.
--
Dave Lewis

That focus lock is an advanced functionality? Why does everyone
who says something negative about this stupid camera have to be
labeled a whiner or complainer? From now on anyone who says
anything negative about one of my posts is a whiner and will be
labeled as such.
--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

 

[Daniella68313]

oh gee I wonder...maybe because it does not work as advertized and a 1000$ camera should at least work as advertize?

some people don't care if they receive something they were expecting to recieve..and some do.

not everybody have problem with AI servo, because some people will not even notice it anyway.

Dave Lewis wrote:
So why in the world labor all of this. Why not

just let it die, so that the forum can move on to more positive
things.
--
Dave Lewis

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel