Canon S1 not so bad, just very soft default settings

[MennoB]

There were a lot of complaints over here about the image quality of the Canon S1 samples at dcresource.com compared to other big zooms such as Oly 750 and Pana FZ10.

Although I agree they're not specially good, for myself I didn't see much difference resolution wise with samples from the other two mentioned. Yes, the Panny and specially the Oly produce sharper looking images, but to me it looked that was only because those cams both use more agressive in-camera contrast and sharpening settings. IOW sharper but not having more detail, was my impression.

To be sure I stitched some samples from dcresource and made side-by-side comparisments between S1, C750 and FZ10. After that I altered the apparant softness & low contrast of the S1 samples to the same level I felt the Oly & Pan pics already were (by in-camera sharpening).

My conclusion: I still think that resolution-wise there's hardly any difference between Oly750, Panasonic FZ10 and the new Canon S1.

But what do you think? You can find the side by sides here:

http://home.hetnet.nl/~herflor/01_CanonS1_edited_VS_Olympus750_unedited.jpg
http://home.hetnet.nl/~herflor/02_CanonS1_edited_VS_Olympus750_unedited.jpg
http://home.hetnet.nl/~herflor/03_CanonS1_edited_VS_PanasonicFZ10_unedited.jpg
http://home.hetnet.nl/~herflor/04_CanonS1_edited_VS_PanasonicFZ10_unedited.jpg

 

[BB]

There were a lot of complaints over here about the image quality of
the Canon S1 samples at dcresource.com compared to other big zooms
such as Oly 750 and Pana FZ10.

Although I agree they're not specially good, for myself I didn't
see much difference resolution wise with samples from the other
two mentioned. Yes, the Panny and specially the Oly produce sharper
looking images, but to me it looked that was only because those
cams both use more agressive in-camera contrast and sharpening
settings. IOW sharper but not having more detail, was my impression.

To be sure I stitched some samples from dcresource and made
side-by-side comparisments between S1, C750 and FZ10. After that I
altered the apparant softness & low contrast of the S1 samples to
the same level I felt the Oly & Pan pics already were (by in-camera
sharpening).

My conclusion: I still think that resolution-wise there's hardly
any difference between Oly750, Panasonic FZ10 and the new Canon S1.

But what do you think? You can find the side by sides here:

http://home.hetnet.nl/~herflor/01_CanonS1_edited_VS_Olympus750_unedited.jpg

This two samples are chot in too different lights and so on...

http://home.hetnet.nl/~herflor/02_CanonS1_edited_VS_Olympus750_unedited.jpg

Yes, Olympus is over sharped BUT show clearly more detail on the roof and the edited Canon pix get too much noise in the sky...

http://home.hetnet.nl/~herflor/03_CanonS1_edited_VS_PanasonicFZ10_unedited.jpg

Panasonic is not over sharped and should "win" here more clearly, with slight sharpening...
http://home.hetnet.nl/~herflor/04_CanonS1_edited_VS_PanasonicFZ10_unedited.jpg

The grass and wood on distance, look still very soft with Canon... And this cut outs was not the worse examples of how Canon "smear out" irregular pattern, like grass bushes and trees...

--
I'm a film producer, photographer and website creator...
With EE plaza lifestyle Magazine, which include a first class
Best Buy guide and other sites - living for the beauty!

 

[polishpunk68]

THe post processing helps, a lot actually, but it also adds a little noise. Since the S1 is noisy to begin with, more noise is something the camera needs least. And THEN is the CA problem that the S1 has the worst out of the bunch (not surprisingly though, no ED elements)

There were a lot of complaints over here about the image quality of
the Canon S1 samples at dcresource.com compared to other big zooms
such as Oly 750 and Pana FZ10.

Although I agree they're not specially good, for myself I didn't
see much difference resolution wise with samples from the other
two mentioned. Yes, the Panny and specially the Oly produce sharper
looking images, but to me it looked that was only because those
cams both use more agressive in-camera contrast and sharpening
settings. IOW sharper but not having more detail, was my impression.

To be sure I stitched some samples from dcresource and made
side-by-side comparisments between S1, C750 and FZ10. After that I
altered the apparant softness & low contrast of the S1 samples to
the same level I felt the Oly & Pan pics already were (by in-camera
sharpening).

My conclusion: I still think that resolution-wise there's hardly
any difference between Oly750, Panasonic FZ10 and the new Canon S1.

But what do you think? You can find the side by sides here:

http://home.hetnet.nl/~herflor/01_CanonS1_edited_VS_Olympus750_unedited.jpg
http://home.hetnet.nl/~herflor/02_CanonS1_edited_VS_Olympus750_unedited.jpg
http://home.hetnet.nl/~herflor/03_CanonS1_edited_VS_PanasonicFZ10_unedited.jpg
http://home.hetnet.nl/~herflor/04_CanonS1_edited_VS_PanasonicFZ10_unedited.jpg

--
-Matt

 

[Karen 5]

To be sure I stitched some samples from dcresource and made
side-by-side comparisments between S1, C750 and FZ10. After that I
altered the apparant softness & low contrast of the S1 samples to
the same level I felt the Oly & Pan pics already were (by in-camera
sharpening).

My conclusion: I still think that resolution-wise there's hardly
any difference between Oly750, Panasonic FZ10 and the new Canon S1.

But what do you think?

good job Menno. the S1 does clean-up nicely. but i don't Want to have to 'clean it up'. unedited, the Oly is still superior (to my eyes), the Panasonic unedited is closer in quality to the edited S1..cept you don't have to edit it to get the result. and of course far distance is sharper cause it has 12x optical.

appreciate your doing those,
Karen

 

[ajf3]

Is there any way to adjust the settings in the s1 so that the pics come out closer to what your post processing looks like?

To be sure I stitched some samples from dcresource and made
side-by-side comparisments between S1, C750 and FZ10. After that I
altered the apparant softness & low contrast of the S1 samples to
the same level I felt the Oly & Pan pics already were (by in-camera
sharpening).

My conclusion: I still think that resolution-wise there's hardly
any difference between Oly750, Panasonic FZ10 and the new Canon S1.

But what do you think?

good job Menno. the S1 does clean-up nicely. but i don't Want to
have to 'clean it up'. unedited, the Oly is still superior (to my
eyes), the Panasonic unedited is closer in quality to the edited
S1..cept you don't have to edit it to get the result. and of
course far distance is sharper cause it has 12x optical.

appreciate your doing those,
Karen

 

[MennoB]

the S1 does clean-up nicely. but i don't Want to
have to 'clean it up'.

OK fair enough, but like most cams the S1 has adjustable sharpness and contrast settings. So the only thing you would have to do is alter those to your preferences. After all, if I'm correct the only difference between the 3 cams mentioned is in their DEFAULT settings

unedited, the Oly is still superior (to my
eyes), the Panasonic unedited is closer in quality to the edited
S1..cept you don't have to edit it to get the result.

About the editing; I only did some very quick & dirty and mostly automated editing on the S1 pics. Batch-editing software like Irfanview, Fotocanvas or a Photoshop plugins, can do this for you in a fully automated process.

and of
course far distance is sharper cause it has 12x optical.

Yes, though the difference in tele 'reach' is hardly spectaculair: less than 10 percent (420mm vs 380mm FL)

 

[Karen 5]

course far distance is sharper cause it [FZ10] has 12x optical.

Yes, though the difference in tele 'reach' is hardly spectaculair:
less than 10 percent (420mm vs 380mm FL)

but it's noticeable for what i enjoy. spent a Lot of time looking at pics from C750 and FZ10..Jeff's GG gate pics are good for comparison. i appreciate being able to see more detail in the distance.

now if the FZ10 and C750 would just have a child..

Karen

 

[Spiky]

We are still comparing a 3mp to two 4mp cameras, correct? And whining about lower resolution in the 3mp? Wow, shocking development. And the Panny has a larger sensor, right? And it has the best looking pics? I'm knocked out of my chair by amazement. (not to mention the S1 isn't even shipping, yet)

Anybody buying any of these to blow up past 8x10 is asking for trouble anyway. That's what big cameras are for. (or film)

There were a lot of complaints over here about the image quality of
the Canon S1 samples at dcresource.com compared to other big zooms
such as Oly 750 and Pana FZ10.

Although I agree they're not specially good, for myself I didn't
see much difference resolution wise with samples from the other
two mentioned. Yes, the Panny and specially the Oly produce sharper
looking images, but to me it looked that was only because those
cams both use more agressive in-camera contrast and sharpening
settings. IOW sharper but not having more detail, was my impression.

To be sure I stitched some samples from dcresource and made
side-by-side comparisments between S1, C750 and FZ10. After that I
altered the apparant softness & low contrast of the S1 samples to
the same level I felt the Oly & Pan pics already were (by in-camera
sharpening).

My conclusion: I still think that resolution-wise there's hardly
any difference between Oly750, Panasonic FZ10 and the new Canon S1.

But what do you think? You can find the side by sides here:

http://home.hetnet.nl/~herflor/01_CanonS1_edited_VS_Olympus750_unedited.jpg

This two samples are chot in too different lights and so on...

http://home.hetnet.nl/~herflor/02_CanonS1_edited_VS_Olympus750_unedited.jpg

Yes, Olympus is over sharped BUT show clearly more detail on the
roof and the edited Canon pix get too much noise in the sky...

http://home.hetnet.nl/~herflor/03_CanonS1_edited_VS_PanasonicFZ10_unedited.jpg

Panasonic is not over sharped and should "win" here more clearly,
with slight sharpening...
http://home.hetnet.nl/~herflor/04_CanonS1_edited_VS_PanasonicFZ10_unedited.jpg

The grass and wood on distance, look still very soft with Canon...
And this cut outs was not the worse examples of how Canon "smear
out" irregular pattern, like grass bushes and trees...

--
I'm a film producer, photographer and website creator...
With EE plaza lifestyle Magazine, which include a first class
Best Buy guide and other sites - living for the beauty!

 

[BB]

We are still comparing a 3mp to two 4mp cameras, correct? And
whining about lower resolution in the 3mp? Wow, shocking
development. And the Panny has a larger sensor, right? And it has
the best looking pics? I'm knocked out of my chair by amazement.

I's he who compare this cameras... I was comparing with the 2mp Pansonic FZ1 and even that one give clearly better pictures, with higher "real" sharpness in the finest details... Then give Olympus 750 not higher sharpness than the 3mp 740 according to DP reviews and Image-resourses tests, so the comparision is rather fair!

(not to mention the S1 isn't even shipping, yet)
Anybody buying any of these to blow up past 8x10 is asking for
trouble anyway. That's what big cameras are for. (or film)

There were a lot of complaints over here about the image quality of
the Canon S1 samples at dcresource.com compared to other big zooms
such as Oly 750 and Pana FZ10.

Although I agree they're not specially good, for myself I didn't
see much difference resolution wise with samples from the other
two mentioned. Yes, the Panny and specially the Oly produce sharper
looking images, but to me it looked that was only because those
cams both use more agressive in-camera contrast and sharpening
settings. IOW sharper but not having more detail, was my impression.

To be sure I stitched some samples from dcresource and made
side-by-side comparisments between S1, C750 and FZ10. After that I
altered the apparant softness & low contrast of the S1 samples to
the same level I felt the Oly & Pan pics already were (by in-camera
sharpening).

My conclusion: I still think that resolution-wise there's hardly
any difference between Oly750, Panasonic FZ10 and the new Canon S1.

But what do you think? You can find the side by sides here:

http://home.hetnet.nl/~herflor/01_CanonS1_edited_VS_Olympus750_unedited.jpg

This two samples are chot in too different lights and so on...

http://home.hetnet.nl/~herflor/02_CanonS1_edited_VS_Olympus750_unedited.jpg

Yes, Olympus is over sharped BUT show clearly more detail on the
roof and the edited Canon pix get too much noise in the sky...

http://home.hetnet.nl/~herflor/03_CanonS1_edited_VS_PanasonicFZ10_unedited.jpg

Panasonic is not over sharped and should "win" here more clearly,
with slight sharpening...
http://home.hetnet.nl/~herflor/04_CanonS1_edited_VS_PanasonicFZ10_unedited.jpg

The grass and wood on distance, look still very soft with Canon...
And this cut outs was not the worse examples of how Canon "smear
out" irregular pattern, like grass bushes and trees...

--
I'm a film producer, photographer and website creator...
With EE plaza lifestyle Magazine, which include a first class
Best Buy guide and other sites - living for the beauty!

--
I'm a film producer, photographer and website creator...
With EE plaza lifestyle Magazine, which include a first class
Best Buy guide and other sites - living for the beauty!

 

[Kevin Omura]

Looking at the comparision one thing I notice is that the Panasonic looks more artificially sharpened almost pixilated as noted below than the S1 pix which don't look as over sharpened.



Kevin

 

[Paul Fortino]

Why do you continue to argue and compare photos that are OBVIOUSLY taken at different times with different lighting conditions, at differen settings and possibly different ISO.

A very silly arguement with very silly non-scientific comparisons.

Just wait for dpreview to come out with the REAL test shots and hold your horses!

Frustrated,
Paul

Looking at the comparision one thing I notice is that the Panasonic
looks more artificially sharpened almost pixilated as noted below
than the S1 pix which don't look as over sharpened.



Kevin

 

[BB]

You must be joking!!

Can't you see the ugly sharpening halos around stuff, in Canons part??? Plus all the other shaperning side efects, in Canons part??!!

Panasonics part may been damaged by resaving, but show no aggressive sharpening...

Looking at the comparision one thing I notice is that the Panasonic
looks more artificially sharpened almost pixilated as noted below
than the S1 pix which don't look as over sharpened.



Kevin

--
I'm a film producer, photographer and website creator...
With EE plaza lifestyle Magazine, which include a first class
Best Buy guide and other sites - living for the beauty!

 

[Cerwin]

Just wait for dpreview to come out with the REAL test shots and
hold your horses!

And that would be around say... next christmas?

 

[Karen 5]

Why do you continue to argue and compare photos that are OBVIOUSLY
taken at different times with different lighting conditions, at
differen settings and possibly different ISO.

A very silly arguement with very silly non-scientific comparisons.

Just wait for dpreview to come out with the REAL test shots and
hold your horses!

Frustrated,
Paul

yes, heaven forbid we should try to figure out and learn a few things on our own. much better to let someone Else tell us what we're seeing, and base our decisions on that. if these threads frustrate you, the solution is simple.

Karen

 

[MennoB]

Don't you know the difference between sharpness and detail?

Yes, the S1 images I altered suffer from haloes. But first of all, as mentioned I did a quick and dirty job. It/I could have done much better. But my point was not to show that S1 pics can be improved, but that resolution-wise the 3 cams are about the same and (again: IMO) the only differences are the default in-camera sharpness and contrast settings.

Secondly all 3 suffer from this haloing effect. Specially the Oly750 (its default settings imo already oversharpens grosly) but also the Pannies you seems to love, yes even deity, so much. In fact, I'll say just about ALL digicams which carry the super tiny 1/2.5" or less sensors suffer from either fuzzy looking images (such as S1) or sharpening halos (most others).

But lets forget about sharpness and sharpening artefacts. Lets talk about RESOLUTION, about DETAIL. Convince me with image examples that your Godess Panny 1 or 10 delivers more DETAIL than the S1. Honestly, I wouldnt mind a single bit if you could prove it, I just think you cant.

You must be joking!!

Can't you see the ugly sharpening halos around stuff, in Canons
part??? Plus all the other shaperning side efects, in Canons
part??!!

 

[Paul Fortino]

My point being...
the test shots are marginal at best and have NO relation to each other.

i.e. different lighting and no information about what settings were used on each camera. If you want to base your decision on that kind of an amature study, go ahead, but I prefer the test images from dpreview. At least you can compare apples to apples and not apples to horses.

Best of luck.

p.s. Christmas is just around the corner!

Why do you continue to argue and compare photos that are OBVIOUSLY
taken at different times with different lighting conditions, at
differen settings and possibly different ISO.

A very silly arguement with very silly non-scientific comparisons.

Just wait for dpreview to come out with the REAL test shots and
hold your horses!

Frustrated,
Paul

yes, heaven forbid we should try to figure out and learn a few
things on our own. much better to let someone Else tell us what
we're seeing, and base our decisions on that. if these threads
frustrate you, the solution is simple.

Karen

 

[MennoB]

the test shots are marginal at best and have NO relation to each
other.
i.e. different lighting and no information about what settings
were used on each camera.

Come one, circumstances were fairly close. The shot scene was the same, applied focal length was about the same, time of year (late fall, winter) was about the same, even the weather (bleakish sunshine) was virtually identical. I dont wanna bribe but hey, its about the best one can do without physically holding the 3 buggers ;-)

If you want to base your decision on
that kind of an amature study, go ahead, but I prefer the test
images from dpreview. At least you can compare apples to apples
and not apples to horses.

Duh. The FZ10 was released MONTHS ago and still isnt reviewed by Phil, neither is the Oly 750. Will PA review the S1? Probably yes. But just how you think you can compare apples to apples when there's only one in the fruit jar?

 

[Karen 5]

My point being...
the test shots are marginal at best and have NO relation to each
other.
i.e. different lighting and no information about what settings
were used on each camera.

Paul, Jeff clearly states in each round of UZ photos:

"The photographs below were taken at default settings, with the ISO fixed at 50. The image quality and resolution were at their highest levels."

the photos have tremendous relation to each other. same signs, same houses, same palms, same Golden Gate bridge..and so on.

If you want to base your decision on
that kind of an amature study, go ahead, but I prefer the test
images from dpreview. At least you can compare apples to apples
and not apples to horses.

how? Phil pretty much doesn't review ultra-zooms, what's he gonna use against the S1? 'sides, i don't base my decisions on any one source. look at everything i can find, try to understand the specs and what they actually mean in practice to the degree my limited experience/knowledge permits..then i look at the photos . not just official site reviews, but pictures taken by people using those cameras.

Best of luck.
p.s. Christmas is just around the corner!

there is that have semi-decided my next move needs to be upgrading to a computer that will at least take software from these cameras.

Karen
S400

 

[polishpunk68]

Don't you know the difference between sharpness and detail?

Yes, the S1 images I altered suffer from haloes. But first of all,
as mentioned I did a quick and dirty job. It/I could have done much
better. But my point was not to show that S1 pics can be improved,
but that resolution-wise the 3 cams are about the same and (again:
IMO) the only differences are the default in-camera sharpness and
contrast settings.

Secondly all 3 suffer from this haloing effect. Specially the
Oly750 (its default settings imo already oversharpens grosly) but
also the Pannies you seems to love, yes even deity, so much. In
fact, I'll say just about ALL digicams which carry the super tiny
1/2.5" or less sensors suffer from either fuzzy looking images
(such as S1) or sharpening halos (most others).

But lets forget about sharpness and sharpening artefacts. Lets talk
about RESOLUTION, about DETAIL. Convince me with image examples
that your Godess Panny 1 or 10 delivers more DETAIL than the S1.
Honestly, I wouldnt mind a single bit if you could prove it, I just
think you cant.

You can fight over this for ever, its pointless. BB likes the Panasonic, you like the Canon, let's just leave it at that. Nobody is worshiping any camera gods here (at least I hope not)

-Matt

 

[BB]

But lets forget about sharpness and sharpening artefacts. Lets talk
about RESOLUTION, about DETAIL. Convince me with image examples
that your Godess Panny 1 or 10 delivers more DETAIL than the S1.
Honestly, I wouldnt mind a single bit if you could prove it, I just
think you cant.

Just compare the white house with two palms, with the same picture shot with the 2mp Panasonic FZ1 and you will actually find more fine detail in panas picture... And not only in the grass, bushes and palms BUT even in the wood walls and at other areas!!

You can fight over this for ever, its pointless. BB likes the
Panasonic, you like the Canon, let's just leave it at that. Nobody
is worshiping any camera gods here (at least I hope not)

That's completely wrong... I love any excellent camera, whatever the maker and I do recommend (as one example) Canon A70 as the best 3mp 3x zoom camera (it give very little fyzzy effect on greens) in my Best Buy guide... And KonicaMinolta G400 as the best value ultra compact 4mp, because Pansonic FX5 is rather expensive...

--
I'm a film producer, photographer and website creator...
With EE plaza lifestyle Magazine, which include a first class
Best Buy guide and other sites - living for the beauty!