Canon's response to the Flash 1/15 blurred picture

[Sean Boltman]

My impression thus far is that I'm not feeling comfortable about the S-10 regarding this flash issue. Chuck Westfall has had multiple requests for information posted in the last 16 hours, and while he has been on here only just recently to address other posts, he has left this Topics posts unanswered.

Being a a representative of Canon, I would expect a minimum of reply suggesting what steps Canon is or is ot doing to resolve this issue, but instead there is just silence.

I don't know what to make of his disappearance on this particular topic. Perhaps this posting will bring something about from him. If it doesn't, I think it is safe to say that one might consider spending their salary on a more competent camera, or at least one whose support staff is more proactive. No knock Chuck, I've seen you in action on this forum, but I also see silence on this particular issue, which to me comes acrossed as dodging the issue. Maybe you are not in a position to reply publically. Can you give us, the forum, another contact who might be able to act upon our concerns?

Sean

 

[Joel13861]

Sean, see the S10 high speed sutter pic section in this forum for a reasonable answer.

My impression thus far is that I'm not feeling comfortable about the S-10
regarding this flash issue. Chuck Westfall has had multiple requests for
information posted in the last 16 hours, and while he has been on here
only just recently to address other posts, he has left this Topics posts
unanswered.

Being a a representative of Canon, I would expect a minimum of reply
suggesting what steps Canon is or is ot doing to resolve this issue, but
instead there is just silence.

I don't know what to make of his disappearance on this particular topic.
Perhaps this posting will bring something about from him. If it doesn't,
I think it is safe to say that one might consider spending their salary
on a more competent camera, or at least one whose support staff is more
proactive. No knock Chuck, I've seen you in action on this forum, but I
also see silence on this particular issue, which to me comes acrossed as
dodging the issue. Maybe you are not in a position to reply publically.
Can you give us, the forum, another contact who might be able to act upon
our concerns?

Sean

 

[Dennis13551]

My impression thus far is that I'm not feeling comfortable about the S-10
regarding this flash issue. Chuck Westfall has had multiple requests for
information posted in the last 16 hours, and while he has been on here
only just recently to address other posts, he has left this Topics posts
unanswered.

Being a a representative of Canon, I would expect a minimum of reply
suggesting what steps Canon is or is ot doing to resolve this issue, but
instead there is just silence.

I don't know what to make of his disappearance on this particular topic.
Perhaps this posting will bring something about from him. If it doesn't,
I think it is safe to say that one might consider spending their salary
on a more competent camera, or at least one whose support staff is more
proactive. No knock Chuck, I've seen you in action on this forum, but I
also see silence on this particular issue, which to me comes acrossed as
dodging the issue. Maybe you are not in a position to reply publically.
Can you give us, the forum, another contact who might be able to act upon
our concerns?

Sean

Although I see Chuck as the only rep. that actually comes here and helps customers with their questions/problems- well, I see no valid responses/solutions concerning the problems with indoor/flash pics(via shutter speed). Although I'm leaning toward the Nikons(CP800 and CP950), I kind of want to be sold on the Cannon S-10. Other than the flash problems and micro-drive(? not sure of terms- but I believe it has been resolved via firmware update), it seems to be a great dig cam. Personally, I'm not looking for action shots(inside/flash) but my 3 and 5 yr. olds are not by no means "motionless". Maybe posters/users/owners are exagerating this- but, maybe not. Help us here Chuck... and maybe I'll buy one. Merry X-Mas to all...

 

[gary13244]

Dennis:

http://www.photoisland.com guest userid garyo password 22go22... select Universal on the left side of the screen.
You will find pictures of children using flash. What do you think?

garyo

My impression thus far is that I'm not feeling comfortable about the S-10
regarding this flash issue. Chuck Westfall has had multiple requests for
information posted in the last 16 hours, and while he has been on here
only just recently to address other posts, he has left this Topics posts
unanswered.

Being a a representative of Canon, I would expect a minimum of reply
suggesting what steps Canon is or is ot doing to resolve this issue, but
instead there is just silence.

I don't know what to make of his disappearance on this particular topic.
Perhaps this posting will bring something about from him. If it doesn't,
I think it is safe to say that one might consider spending their salary
on a more competent camera, or at least one whose support staff is more
proactive. No knock Chuck, I've seen you in action on this forum, but I
also see silence on this particular issue, which to me comes acrossed as
dodging the issue. Maybe you are not in a position to reply publically.
Can you give us, the forum, another contact who might be able to act upon
our concerns?

Sean

Although I see Chuck as the only rep. that actually comes here and helps
customers with their questions/problems- well, I see no valid
responses/solutions concerning the problems with indoor/flash pics(via
shutter speed). Although I'm leaning toward the Nikons(CP800 and CP950),
I kind of want to be sold on the Cannon S-10. Other than the flash
problems and micro-drive(? not sure of terms- but I believe it has been
resolved via firmware update), it seems to be a great dig cam.
Personally, I'm not looking for action shots(inside/flash) but my 3 and 5
yr. olds are not by no means "motionless". Maybe posters/users/owners are
exagerating this- but, maybe not. Help us here Chuck... and maybe I'll
buy one. Merry X-Mas to all...

 

[Ken13519]

what to make of his disappearance on this particular topic??
Simple, Canon does have any answer, neither does CHUCK!!!!!

Ricardo.

My impression thus far is that I'm not feeling comfortable about the S-10
regarding this flash issue. Chuck Westfall has had multiple requests for
information posted in the last 16 hours, and while he has been on here
only just recently to address other posts, he has left this Topics posts
unanswered.

Being a a representative of Canon, I would expect a minimum of reply
suggesting what steps Canon is or is ot doing to resolve this issue, but
instead there is just silence.

I don't know what to make of his disappearance on this particular topic.
Perhaps this posting will bring something about from him. If it doesn't,
I think it is safe to say that one might consider spending their salary
on a more competent camera, or at least one whose support staff is more
proactive. No knock Chuck, I've seen you in action on this forum, but I
also see silence on this particular issue, which to me comes acrossed as
dodging the issue. Maybe you are not in a position to reply publically.
Can you give us, the forum, another contact who might be able to act upon
our concerns?

Sean

 

[Ken13519]

Joel, there is not people on the pictures you talking about, just water!!!
water is very reflective , people is not!
JP

My impression thus far is that I'm not feeling comfortable about the S-10
regarding this flash issue. Chuck Westfall has had multiple requests for
information posted in the last 16 hours, and while he has been on here
only just recently to address other posts, he has left this Topics posts
unanswered.

Being a a representative of Canon, I would expect a minimum of reply
suggesting what steps Canon is or is ot doing to resolve this issue, but
instead there is just silence.

I don't know what to make of his disappearance on this particular topic.
Perhaps this posting will bring something about from him. If it doesn't,
I think it is safe to say that one might consider spending their salary
on a more competent camera, or at least one whose support staff is more
proactive. No knock Chuck, I've seen you in action on this forum, but I
also see silence on this particular issue, which to me comes acrossed as
dodging the issue. Maybe you are not in a position to reply publically.
Can you give us, the forum, another contact who might be able to act upon
our concerns?

Sean

 

[GM]

feeling comfortable ??? you are not the only one.....
Chris.

My impression thus far is that I'm not feeling comfortable about the S-10
regarding this flash issue. Chuck Westfall has had multiple requests for
information posted in the last 16 hours, and while he has been on here
only just recently to address other posts, he has left this Topics posts
unanswered.

Being a a representative of Canon, I would expect a minimum of reply
suggesting what steps Canon is or is ot doing to resolve this issue, but
instead there is just silence.

I don't know what to make of his disappearance on this particular topic.
Perhaps this posting will bring something about from him. If it doesn't,
I think it is safe to say that one might consider spending their salary
on a more competent camera, or at least one whose support staff is more
proactive. No knock Chuck, I've seen you in action on this forum, but I
also see silence on this particular issue, which to me comes acrossed as
dodging the issue. Maybe you are not in a position to reply publically.
Can you give us, the forum, another contact who might be able to act upon
our concerns?

Sean

 

[Sean Boltman]

For my use, it's simple. I want to capture my 3yr old girl digitally. I live in Seattle, it rains like hell, and we are indoors a lot. Sufficient light is not always there. While I don't expect every picture to be perfect, I do expect 70% of them to be. I not shooting racks or plants. Will the S-10 work for me? I'm not willing to gamble $600+ bucks on it. I'd rather but a DC210 for a 1/3 price.

My impression thus far is that I'm not feeling comfortable about the S-10
regarding this flash issue. Chuck Westfall has had multiple requests for
information posted in the last 16 hours, and while he has been on here
only just recently to address other posts, he has left this Topics posts
unanswered.

Being a a representative of Canon, I would expect a minimum of reply
suggesting what steps Canon is or is ot doing to resolve this issue, but
instead there is just silence.

I don't know what to make of his disappearance on this particular topic.
Perhaps this posting will bring something about from him. If it doesn't,
I think it is safe to say that one might consider spending their salary
on a more competent camera, or at least one whose support staff is more
proactive. No knock Chuck, I've seen you in action on this forum, but I
also see silence on this particular issue, which to me comes acrossed as
dodging the issue. Maybe you are not in a position to reply publically.
Can you give us, the forum, another contact who might be able to act upon
our concerns?

Sean

Although I see Chuck as the only rep. that actually comes here and helps
customers with their questions/problems- well, I see no valid
responses/solutions concerning the problems with indoor/flash pics(via
shutter speed). Although I'm leaning toward the Nikons(CP800 and CP950),
I kind of want to be sold on the Cannon S-10. Other than the flash
problems and micro-drive(? not sure of terms- but I believe it has been
resolved via firmware update), it seems to be a great dig cam.
Personally, I'm not looking for action shots(inside/flash) but my 3 and 5
yr. olds are not by no means "motionless". Maybe posters/users/owners are
exagerating this- but, maybe not. Help us here Chuck... and maybe I'll
buy one. Merry X-Mas to all...

 

[Fred Rothenberg]

Dennis:

http://www.photoisland.com guest userid garyo password 22go22... select
Universal on the left side of the screen.
You will find pictures of children using flash. What do you think?

garyo

I liked your pics. Obviously it's pretty hard to catch a flying son in midair.
Frankly, I think this blur thing has become a case of mass hysteria.

Fred

 

[Peter Vaktor]

Dennis,

Its no secret that I'm a fan of the S10, having posted numerous times in support of this camera and its flash mode. Yes, I like flash pictures with this camera, in spite of 1/15th sec shutterspeed. The pictures are well exposed and nicely balanced between ambient and flash illumination. Do I think 1/15th sec is too slow for the default shutterspeed of a point and shoot camera . . .YES! Do I think that there should be an upgrade that will give a choice of a slightly faster shutterspeed .. . YES. Is it such a major issue that I would not want to buy this camera because of it . . .NO! My favorite photographic subject is my six year old and his friends at play. I have had no problems capturing sharp candid (unposed!) flash pictures of them with the S10, in various activities. All it takes is some patient vigilance to pick the right moment for the photo. There are ALLWAYS moments of relative stillness (without the need to pose your subject) in every action. The challange of candid photography is just that! Admittedly some photographic tools may make your job easier than others but personally I think the S10's overall qualities outweigh the disadvantages. No digital camera is perfect; it's allways a trade off.
Peter
Peter

 

[Dennis13551]

http://www.photoisland.com guest userid garyo password 22go22... select
Universal on the left side of the screen.
You will find pictures of children using flash. What do you think?

garyo

Although I see Chuck as the only rep. that actually comes here and helps
customers with their questions/problems- well, I see no valid
responses/solutions concerning the problems with indoor/flash pics(via
shutter speed). Although I'm leaning toward the Nikons(CP800 and CP950),
I kind of want to be sold on the Cannon S-10. Other than the flash
problems and micro-drive(? not sure of terms- but I believe it has been
resolved via firmware update), it seems to be a great dig cam.
Personally, I'm not looking for action shots(inside/flash) but my 3 and 5
yr. olds are not by no means "motionless". Maybe posters/users/owners are
exagerating this- but, maybe not. Help us here Chuck... and maybe I'll
buy one. Merry X-Mas to all...

Nice pics there. I did sign your guest list. Were all inside shots with flash(and default shutter speed)? Esp. #4 and #5? #3 was very nice. Guess it is hard to snap a "flying" child. Thanks for the invite.

 

[Chuck Westfall]

Hi, Sean:

I've posted a ton of responses on this topic today. (First time I've had the chance to catch up to messages posted over the last 2 or 3 days.) I'm not ducking the issue at all, I'm just trying to catch up here.

Take a look at some of the other threads to see my responses on the flash issue.

Best Regards,

Chuck Westfall
Manager/Technical Information Dept.
Camera Division/Canon U.S.A., Inc.

 

[tjun]

Oh come on waiting for that perfect moment of stillness? This is incredibly hard considering that the camera (expecially in manual mode) shutter has a delay (about 1 sec or more) after the shutter button has been depressed, even if you have the shutter button halfway down before the shot. This delay is driving me crazy since even with good timing you can't take a good shot sometimes.

Dennis,
Its no secret that I'm a fan of the S10, having posted numerous times in
support of this camera and its flash mode. Yes, I like flash pictures
with this camera, in spite of 1/15th sec shutterspeed. The pictures are
well exposed and nicely balanced between ambient and flash illumination.
Do I think 1/15th sec is too slow for the default shutterspeed of a point
and shoot camera . . .YES! Do I think that there should be an upgrade
that will give a choice of a slightly faster shutterspeed .. . YES. Is it
such a major issue that I would not want to buy this camera because of it
. . .NO! My favorite photographic subject is my six year old and his
friends at play. I have had no problems capturing sharp candid (unposed!)
flash pictures of them with the S10, in various activities. All it takes
is some patient vigilance to pick the right moment for the photo. There
are ALLWAYS moments of relative stillness (without the need to pose your
subject) in every action. The challange of candid photography is just
that! Admittedly some photographic tools may make your job easier than
others but personally I think the S10's overall qualities outweigh the
disadvantages. No digital camera is perfect; it's allways a trade off.
Peter
Peter

 

[Peter Vaktor]

Oh come on waiting for that perfect moment of stillness? This is
incredibly hard considering that the camera (expecially in manual mode)
shutter has a delay (about 1 sec or more) after the shutter button has
been depressed, even if you have the shutter button halfway down before
the shot. This delay is driving me crazy since even with good timing you
can't take a good shot sometimes.

Thomas,

You are not using the camera correctly. The camera has practically NO SHUTTER DELAY (unlike a lot of other digicams) from the point at which the shutter has been pressed halfway and focus has been achieved. This in fact is one of the greatest things about the s10; it's prctically instant response. The shutter delay is there ONLY if you DO NOT prefocus first. The camera has to focus and has to set exposure and white balance before the picture is taken.
Peter

 

[Steve13285]

Peter,

Thomas is using the camera correctly. He is also describing the problem correctly. While you are correct that the time it takes to capture the image is nearly instantaneous once the focus lock has been set, the time it takes to focus lock is a full second. If your subject is moving, 1 second is a LONG time. The result is either:
1) subject is no longer in the frame
2) subject is seen as a blur within the frame (in low light)
3) subject is frozen in frame but not the way you wanted it

If you have used your camera to photograph moving objects (a child on a swing or merry-go-round, for instance), you have seen this problem. If you don't use your camera in this way you don't care and it won't matter.

At any rate this shortcoming in the camera is being reported quite regularly because it's pretty specific to the Canon from what I've seen. I've used the Oly and Nikon series of cameras and the focus lock is instantaneous. Time from finger on the button to picture capture is a fraction of a second.

Regards,
Stosh

Oh come on waiting for that perfect moment of stillness? This is
incredibly hard considering that the camera (expecially in manual mode)
shutter has a delay (about 1 sec or more) after the shutter button has
been depressed, even if you have the shutter button halfway down before
the shot. This delay is driving me crazy since even with good timing you
can't take a good shot sometimes.

Thomas,
You are not using the camera correctly. The camera has practically NO
SHUTTER DELAY (unlike a lot of other digicams) from the point at which
the shutter has been pressed halfway and focus has been achieved. This in
fact is one of the greatest things about the s10; it's prctically instant
response. The shutter delay is there ONLY if you DO NOT prefocus first.
The camera has to focus and has to set exposure and white balance before
the picture is taken.
Peter

 

[Peter Vaktor]

At any rate this shortcoming in the camera is being reported quite
regularly because it's pretty specific to the Canon from what I've seen.
I've used the Oly and Nikon series of cameras and the focus lock is
instantaneous. Time from finger on the button to picture capture is a
fraction of a second.

Regards,
Stosh

Stosh,

I don't know which Oly or Nikon series of cameras you used that had instantaneous focus lock but the digital cameras I've used: Olympus 340, 600, Nikon 950, Sony DSC D-700, all had problems with "hunt and peck" focus lock PARTICULARLY with moving and low light subjects. They were all slower at acquiring focus in most situations than the s10 and were miserable in low light to the point of unuseability at times. With the focus assist beam of the s10 focusing in NO light isn't even a problem.
Regards,
Peter

 

[MikeT13778]

That is true in most conditions, but I notice that when the photo will be takes with a slow shutter speed and the "don't shake" icon comes up, there is a bit of a delay before the shot is taken even after prefocusing.

Oh come on waiting for that perfect moment of stillness? This is
incredibly hard considering that the camera (expecially in manual mode)
shutter has a delay (about 1 sec or more) after the shutter button has
been depressed, even if you have the shutter button halfway down before
the shot. This delay is driving me crazy since even with good timing you
can't take a good shot sometimes.

Thomas,
You are not using the camera correctly. The camera has practically NO
SHUTTER DELAY (unlike a lot of other digicams) from the point at which
the shutter has been pressed halfway and focus has been achieved. This in
fact is one of the greatest things about the s10; it's prctically instant
response. The shutter delay is there ONLY if you DO NOT prefocus first.
The camera has to focus and has to set exposure and white balance before
the picture is taken.
Peter

 

[Peter Vaktor]

That is true in most conditions, but I notice that when the photo will be
takes with a slow shutter speed and the "don't shake" icon comes up,
there is a bit of a delay before the shot is taken even after prefocusing.

Mike,

Check what the actual shutter speed is when taking pictures with the "don't shake" icon visible. The camera is capable of shutter speeds as slow as 2 seconds. What you may be mistaking for a shutter delay may in fact be just that you are using a slow shutter speed.
Peter

 

[Steve13285]

Peter,

Specifically, the Oly2000, Oly450, CP900, and CP950 will focus nearly instantaneously and shoot with moderate light indoors. Depending on the subject and the light level they may have to hunt, as you mentioned.

The issue with the S10 is that in reasonably well lit rooms it always takes 1 second for focus lock.

The S10 does have an advantage in it's ability to focus in near dark. If you have a need to focus on a static subject in the dark the S10 is definitely a winner. On the other hand, if you're looking to get a quick picture of a non-posed shot, even in a fairly well lit environment, the Canon is much slower.

I'm not bashing Canon - I prefer the S10 to the other camera's in virtually every other sense (except for the problem with color/white balance, which seems related and clearly to be a bug). I just find this particular "feature" quite annoying. It would be nice if there was the option to turn it off.
Regards,
Stosh

At any rate this shortcoming in the camera is being reported quite
regularly because it's pretty specific to the Canon from what I've seen.
I've used the Oly and Nikon series of cameras and the focus lock is
instantaneous. Time from finger on the button to picture capture is a
fraction of a second.

Regards,
Stosh

Stosh,

I don't know which Oly or Nikon series of cameras you used that had
instantaneous focus lock but the digital cameras I've used: Olympus 340,
600, Nikon 950, Sony DSC D-700, all had problems with "hunt and peck"
focus lock PARTICULARLY with moving and low light subjects. They were all
slower at acquiring focus in most situations than the s10 and were
miserable in low light to the point of unuseability at times. With the
focus assist beam of the s10 focusing in NO light isn't even a problem.
Regards,
Peter

 

[Richard K]

Comparing the S10 with the Nikon CP 700 I have on hand, the Nikon focuses quicker with strong light, down to 0.5 second or so by my stopwatch.

The S10 autofocus delay is pretty constant at 1 second, but in low light I've had a lot of aggravation from the CP 700, while the S10 just takes the shot.
Depends on what's important to you.

At any rate this shortcoming in the camera is being reported quite
regularly because it's pretty specific to the Canon from what I've seen.
I've used the Oly and Nikon series of cameras and the focus lock is
instantaneous. Time from finger on the button to picture capture is a
fraction of a second.

Regards,
Stosh

Stosh,

I don't know which Oly or Nikon series of cameras you used that had
instantaneous focus lock but the digital cameras I've used: Olympus 340,
600, Nikon 950, Sony DSC D-700, all had problems with "hunt and peck"
focus lock PARTICULARLY with moving and low light subjects. They were all
slower at acquiring focus in most situations than the s10 and were
miserable in low light to the point of unuseability at times. With the
focus assist beam of the s10 focusing in NO light isn't even a problem.
Regards,
Peter