E-10: Watch out for Yellow Snow

[Joe Hawblitzel]

I had some major problems getting a white balance with outdoor night shots on my E-10. I tried every white balance setting, including auto and manual, but the strong street lights caused the snow to turn yellow at every color temperature setting. I haven't fiddled much with the WB settings previously, but it seems there are circumstances when you just won't be able to get it right.

Here are the versions, one corrected (with much difficulty) in Photoshop, and its just barely passable:
http://members2.clubphoto.com/joe203619/Yellow_Snow/

Anyone know of a way around this white balance problem?

Joe Hawblitzel

 

[Ernst Gordijn]

Setting aside the WB problem; I like the picture with the yellow colour. Was that the colour you actual saw?

Ernst Gordijn

I had some major problems getting a white balance with outdoor
night shots on my E-10. I tried every white balance setting,
including auto and manual, but the strong street lights caused the
snow to turn yellow at every color temperature setting. I haven't
fiddled much with the WB settings previously, but it seems there
are circumstances when you just won't be able to get it right.

Here are the versions, one corrected (with much difficulty) in
Photoshop, and its just barely passable:
http://members2.clubphoto.com/joe203619/Yellow_Snow/

Anyone know of a way around this white balance problem?

Joe Hawblitzel

 

[Rich in NEPA28469]

Joe,

Were you shooting under high-pressure sodium vapor lighting? These and other types of gaseous discharge lights emit distorted, narrow spectrums of pink, orange or blue that are practically impossible to correct for in photographs.

Rich {C2020z, C2100uz, C3030z, HP970C}

I had some major problems getting a white balance with outdoor
night shots on my E-10. I tried every white balance setting,
including auto and manual, but the strong street lights caused the
snow to turn yellow at every color temperature setting. I haven't
fiddled much with the WB settings previously, but it seems there
are circumstances when you just won't be able to get it right.

Here are the versions, one corrected (with much difficulty) in
Photoshop, and its just barely passable:
http://members2.clubphoto.com/joe203619/Yellow_Snow/

Anyone know of a way around this white balance problem?

Joe Hawblitzel

 

[Bill Ling29005]

Joe

in this specific circumstance, you might want to choose "Desaturate" under the Image> adjust> menu, after selecting the Snow area. This turns it to essentially neutral grey (like a black & white photo), Then "back off" this extreme by using "fade desaturate" under the filter menu to put back a percentage of the original color.

Jus my 2¢

Bill Ling

 

[Joe Hawblitzel]

Rich,

Our streetlights are the typical "new" lights, one sees on city streets. They tend to turn everything yellow, I guess. It's really a small light, but it turns out a huge amount of light. I guess this is sodium vapor?

Joe H

Were you shooting under high-pressure sodium vapor lighting? These
and other types of gaseous discharge lights emit distorted, narrow
spectrums of pink, orange or blue that are practically impossible
to correct for in photographs.

Rich {C2020z, C2100uz, C3030z, HP970C}

I had some major problems getting a white balance with outdoor
night shots on my E-10. I tried every white balance setting,
including auto and manual, but the strong street lights caused the
snow to turn yellow at every color temperature setting. I haven't
fiddled much with the WB settings previously, but it seems there
are circumstances when you just won't be able to get it right.

Here are the versions, one corrected (with much difficulty) in
Photoshop, and its just barely passable:
http://members2.clubphoto.com/joe203619/Yellow_Snow/

Anyone know of a way around this white balance problem?

Joe Hawblitzel

 

[Joe Hawblitzel]

Setting aside the WB problem; I like the picture with the yellow
colour. Was that the colour you actual saw?

Yes, things looked rather yellow. I guess I can't expect the camera to guess the correct color when it looks yellow to the eye. Strangely, the manual WB gave me a lock, which I thought meant it found a source of white to calibrate. Guess not.

Joe H

Ernst Gordijn

I had some major problems getting a white balance with outdoor
night shots on my E-10. I tried every white balance setting,
including auto and manual, but the strong street lights caused the
snow to turn yellow at every color temperature setting. I haven't
fiddled much with the WB settings previously, but it seems there
are circumstances when you just won't be able to get it right.

Here are the versions, one corrected (with much difficulty) in
Photoshop, and its just barely passable:
http://members2.clubphoto.com/joe203619/Yellow_Snow/

Anyone know of a way around this white balance problem?

Joe Hawblitzel

 

[Rich in NEPA28469]

Joe,

From your description I'd say that it's quite likely. As you can see, the light output is serverely limited in the range of color output. When you filter out the yellow/orange with your retouching software, there's very little saturation in the rest of the spectrum to provide the "natural" colors.



Rich~~

Joe H

Were you shooting under high-pressure sodium vapor lighting? These
and other types of gaseous discharge lights emit distorted, narrow
spectrums of pink, orange or blue that are practically impossible
to correct for in photographs.

Rich {C2020z, C2100uz, C3030z, HP970C}

I had some major problems getting a white balance with outdoor
night shots on my E-10. I tried every white balance setting,
including auto and manual, but the strong street lights caused the
snow to turn yellow at every color temperature setting. I haven't
fiddled much with the WB settings previously, but it seems there
are circumstances when you just won't be able to get it right.

Here are the versions, one corrected (with much difficulty) in
Photoshop, and its just barely passable:
http://members2.clubphoto.com/joe203619/Yellow_Snow/

Anyone know of a way around this white balance problem?

Joe Hawblitzel

 

[Joe Hawblitzel]

Well, that explains why I had so much trouble in Photoshop. Thanks for the physics lesson, Rich.

Joe Hawblitzel

From your description I'd say that it's quite likely. As you can
see, the light output is serverely limited in the range of color
output. When you filter out the yellow/orange with your retouching
software, there's very little saturation in the rest of the
spectrum to provide the "natural" colors.



Rich~~

Joe H

Were you shooting under high-pressure sodium vapor lighting? These
and other types of gaseous discharge lights emit distorted, narrow
spectrums of pink, orange or blue that are practically impossible
to correct for in photographs.

Rich {C2020z, C2100uz, C3030z, HP970C}

I had some major problems getting a white balance with outdoor
night shots on my E-10. I tried every white balance setting,
including auto and manual, but the strong street lights caused the
snow to turn yellow at every color temperature setting. I haven't
fiddled much with the WB settings previously, but it seems there
are circumstances when you just won't be able to get it right.

Here are the versions, one corrected (with much difficulty) in
Photoshop, and its just barely passable:
http://members2.clubphoto.com/joe203619/Yellow_Snow/

Anyone know of a way around this white balance problem?

Joe Hawblitzel

 

[Garry Schaefer]

I am just a prospective E-10 owner rather than a current owner so pardon me if I'm off base. You suggest that you thought the manual WB had found a source of white to calibrate. From what I have read I thought the manual WB required that you hold a white card up for a full frame view in the ambient lighting and that the camera's WB would be set accordiingly. You remark suggests that you had hoped it would find something white in the scene. Perhaps you could clarify what you did and how you expected the camera to respond based on its specs.

Thanks,

Garry

Setting aside the WB problem; I like the picture with the yellow
colour. Was that the colour you actual saw?

Yes, things looked rather yellow. I guess I can't expect the
camera to guess the correct color when it looks yellow to the eye.
Strangely, the manual WB gave me a lock, which I thought meant it
found a source of white to calibrate. Guess not.

Joe H

 

[Jono Slack29833]

'mazing what you learn round here . . . . ain't it!
Jono

Joe Hawblitzel

From your description I'd say that it's quite likely. As you can
see, the light output is serverely limited in the range of color
output. When you filter out the yellow/orange with your retouching
software, there's very little saturation in the rest of the
spectrum to provide the "natural" colors.



Rich~~

Joe H

Were you shooting under high-pressure sodium vapor lighting? These
and other types of gaseous discharge lights emit distorted, narrow
spectrums of pink, orange or blue that are practically impossible
to correct for in photographs.

Rich {C2020z, C2100uz, C3030z, HP970C}

I had some major problems getting a white balance with outdoor
night shots on my E-10. I tried every white balance setting,
including auto and manual, but the strong street lights caused the
snow to turn yellow at every color temperature setting. I haven't
fiddled much with the WB settings previously, but it seems there
are circumstances when you just won't be able to get it right.

Here are the versions, one corrected (with much difficulty) in
Photoshop, and its just barely passable:
http://members2.clubphoto.com/joe203619/Yellow_Snow/

Anyone know of a way around this white balance problem?

Joe Hawblitzel

 

[Joe Hawblitzel]

Sorry for being unclear. I pointed it at the snow which was fresh and very white. It gave me a "good" reading. According to the manual you can use any white surface for Quick Reference White balance. I think the previous response by Rich indicates these street lights pretty much destroy any possible color balance. My only wonder now is why did I get a lock (good) when I tried to use the snow for WB. Anyway, Garry, this is a great camera and I would encourage you to continue investigating it. Of the four digital cameras I've owned this is the only one that feels like the real thing.

Joe Hawblitzel

Thanks,

Garry

Setting aside the WB problem; I like the picture with the yellow
colour. Was that the colour you actual saw?

Yes, things looked rather yellow. I guess I can't expect the
camera to guess the correct color when it looks yellow to the eye.
Strangely, the manual WB gave me a lock, which I thought meant it
found a source of white to calibrate. Guess not.

Joe H

 

[Garry Schaefer]

Thanks, Joe. Yes, of course. Why didn't I immediately think of that. Fresh snow, the perfect 'white card'.

I've played with the E-10 in a camera store. Didn't want to put it down. Only a matter or time now.

Garry

Sorry for being unclear. I pointed it at the snow which was fresh
and very white. It gave me a "good" reading. According to the
manual you can use any white surface for Quick Reference White
balance. I think the previous response by Rich indicates these
street lights pretty much destroy any possible color balance. My
only wonder now is why did I get a lock (good) when I tried to use
the snow for WB. Anyway, Garry, this is a great camera and I would
encourage you to continue investigating it. Of the four digital
cameras I've owned this is the only one that feels like the real
thing.

Joe Hawblitzel

 

[Peter Vaktor]

Yes, things looked rather yellow. I guess I can't expect the
camera to guess the correct color when it looks yellow to the eye.
Strangely, the manual WB gave me a lock, which I thought meant it
found a source of white to calibrate. Guess not.

Actually what the manual WB locks on is the 'brightest" object, which then it "assumes" to be white and sets all the other colors accordingly. However, as you can see from the spectrum chart, sodium vapor light is rather limited almost monochromatic and therefore the wrong assumption is made by the WB setting.
Peter

 

[Terry26431]

Joe,

From your description I'd say that it's quite likely. As you can
see, the light output is serverely limited in the range of color
output. When you filter out the yellow/orange with your retouching
software, there's very little saturation in the rest of the
spectrum to provide the "natural" colors.



Rich~~

Thank you Mr. Wizard. Just kidding, I learned a lot from that television show, and I've learned a lot from this forum.
Terry

Joe H

Were you shooting under high-pressure sodium vapor lighting? These
and other types of gaseous discharge lights emit distorted, narrow
spectrums of pink, orange or blue that are practically impossible
to correct for in photographs.

Rich {C2020z, C2100uz, C3030z, HP970C}

I had some major problems getting a white balance with outdoor
night shots on my E-10. I tried every white balance setting,
including auto and manual, but the strong street lights caused the
snow to turn yellow at every color temperature setting. I haven't
fiddled much with the WB settings previously, but it seems there
are circumstances when you just won't be able to get it right.

Here are the versions, one corrected (with much difficulty) in
Photoshop, and its just barely passable:
http://members2.clubphoto.com/joe203619/Yellow_Snow/

Anyone know of a way around this white balance problem?

Joe Hawblitzel

 

[Richard Goulden]

Hi Joe,

I use the old scanner operators trick in Photoshop telling a particular bit of an image that it is white (not a catchlight) and that another part is black (again a good solid shadow that still shows detail). It works extremely well when any digital image is not up to it white balance wise and can make a much better job when you decide yourself what is white rather than what the camera decides is white.

It was reasonably successful on this image and very quick.

See ya,

Richard

I had some major problems getting a white balance with outdoor
night shots on my E-10. I tried every white balance setting,
including auto and manual, but the strong street lights caused the
snow to turn yellow at every color temperature setting. I haven't
fiddled much with the WB settings previously, but it seems there
are circumstances when you just won't be able to get it right.

Here are the versions, one corrected (with much difficulty) in
Photoshop, and its just barely passable:
http://members2.clubphoto.com/joe203619/Yellow_Snow/

Anyone know of a way around this white balance problem?

Joe Hawblitzel

 

[Simon Harris]

Joe

When it snows around these parts the worst of the yellow snow always seems to be outside the local pub.
Funny, that.

And I ain't sure it's from Sodium!

Regards

Simon

I had some major problems getting a white balance with outdoor
night shots on my E-10. I tried every white balance setting,
including auto and manual, but the strong street lights caused the
snow to turn yellow at every color temperature setting. I haven't
fiddled much with the WB settings previously, but it seems there
are circumstances when you just won't be able to get it right.

Here are the versions, one corrected (with much difficulty) in
Photoshop, and its just barely passable:
http://members2.clubphoto.com/joe203619/Yellow_Snow/

Anyone know of a way around this white balance problem?

Joe Hawblitzel

 

[Nancy32469]

Another color cast problem

As a graphic design coordinator I will primarily use the E-10 or other similar camera thatour school plans to purchase.

Most of the photos taken by our school photographer using a medium format camera in

classrooms with fourescent lighting have produced significant green cast and dark

transparencies. Has anyone used the E-10 in similar circumstances? Any suggestions

on camera settings. Also I need specifics on lighting set ups that are especially portable and produce well lit digital photos (up to classroom size) with no visible hot spots or significant light drop off?

 

[James Sarantis32444]

A pro photographer friend of mine who uses film said he puts on a blue filter for light sources that will flood the scene with yellow light to eliminate it. I thought about applying the same principle in Photoshop so I just go to the colorbalance adjustments. I'm at work now so all I can tell you is I push command-B on my Mac. I guess it would be Alt B if you have Windows. From there I simulate a blue filter by jacking up the blue value until the yellow majically disappears. You may already know this trick but to me, it's doing the same thing as my friend would do but only in the digital domain.

I've played with the E-10 in a camera store. Didn't want to put it
down. Only a matter or time now.

Garry

Sorry for being unclear. I pointed it at the snow which was fresh
and very white. It gave me a "good" reading. According to the
manual you can use any white surface for Quick Reference White
balance. I think the previous response by Rich indicates these
street lights pretty much destroy any possible color balance. My
only wonder now is why did I get a lock (good) when I tried to use
the snow for WB. Anyway, Garry, this is a great camera and I would
encourage you to continue investigating it. Of the four digital
cameras I've owned this is the only one that feels like the real
thing.

Joe Hawblitzel

 

[Gene Bonin]

Be careful, you're showing your age! :^))))

Gene

Thank you Mr. Wizard. Just kidding, I learned a lot from that
television show, and I've learned a lot from this forum.
Terry

 

[Brian Mackey]

TRizel, TRazel,TRuzel,TRuzel, TRome, Time for dees one to come home..

Mrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Wizzzaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrddddddddddddd!

Gene

Thank you Mr. Wizard. Just kidding, I learned a lot from that
television show, and I've learned a lot from this forum.
Terry