tradesmith45
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WOW!
Says something about astrophotography that gear like this is being contemplated.
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What is a good portable tracker mount?
- Thread starter Astrophotographer 10
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Says something about astrophotography that gear like this is being contemplated.
EricTheAstroJunkie
Senior Member
Resources Ive read said the Star Adventurer is 40 Arc-seconds, same as tle polarie and pretty much every other mount in that range. Maybe the Mini version is 100 Arc-seconds. In any case I've used both quite a bit with lots of success, including with larger lenses like the Tamron 150-600mm. For the price it's tough to justify the Astrotrac options when the Star Adventurer with the counterweight setup works so well for lighter lenses and lighter scopes.
EricTheAstroJunkie
Senior Member
FWIW here are a number of measured PE's by users for the Star Adventurer, they seem to range from around 6-8 arc-sec:
to ~25 arc-sec:
to 50 arc-sec:
philhart.com
While the mini version has around 50 arc-sec:
philhart.com
to ~25 arc-sec:
to 50 arc-sec:
Skywatcher Star Adventurer: Review - Phil Hart
Skywatcher were not the first to offer portable tracking mounts but the Star Adventurer unit is a very capable and complete package. It is heavier but also has a more substantial payload than the competing options and it did feel much more comfortable supporting my full frame Canon camera and...
philhart.com
While the mini version has around 50 arc-sec:
Skywatcher Star Adventurer Mini (SAM) Review - Phil Hart
Following my review of the Star Adventurer, Skywatcher have now introduced a "mini" version of their astrophotography and timelapse platform in a smaller and app controlled version. This review describes my first month using 'SAM', which proves to be very easy to learn and use. Control via the...
philhart.com
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Yes, I know. But I am willing to give this new Astrotrac 360 a serious try. Other options might be just as useable, though.
Looks fine!
There are modest priced solutions that look fine. Personally, I have had much fun with the first generation Astrotrac, but I want better tracking precision, so I don't mind paying a bit more for better reliability and higher precision. ;-)
Astrophotographer 10
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Thanks for that. As far as 6-8 arc second accuracy I simply don't believe that.
Even Software Bisque PME 11 mount only guarantees 7 arc second peak to peak.
40-50 is more believable.
The owner must have made some error. Also I see he was autoguiding.
I researched this mount and I could not find anyone who was getting 2 minutes 300mm round stars. Seemed like it was limited to short exposures.
Greg.
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They are very tempting but they are quite expensive. A decked out Swat 250 with a beautifully machined adjustable base as a wedge and a counterweight shaft and counterweight is around Aussie $2300.
The Toast TP2 seems to have less accessories and is around Aussie $1400.
Both look beautifully made and guarantee under 7 arc second tracking accuracy which is what Software Bisque mounts promise.
Greg.
get the package lt ii with wedge and mgen autoguider... see no disadvantage really
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How portable is this package, and do you need a computer to run the autoguider?
not for mgen... heaviest thing might be the tripod, or get an expensive carbon... it is not for hiking, but depending on what you need you can change setup. mine goes from 3 to 4 kg to like 30kg all togther depending what I want. I just decided from nowon to use mgen all the time from 300mm upwards, or do 1 min exposure
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Thanks a lot. I am looking for something portable with high precision. For stationary work I have a pair of Losmandy G11 mounts.
Saabster
Leading Member
Here's one that I haven't seem mentioned in teh thread yet. The Skywatcher AZ-GTi http://www.skywatcherusa.com/product/az-gti-mount/ . It can convert between Alt-Az and EQ mode (with a firmware update), weighs in at around 8 lbs and has a capacity of 11 lbs (some folks on Cloudy Nights have pushed it to 15 lbs.
It's got Goto capabilities either via smart phone/Computer (wireless over WiFi) or an optional Skywatcher/Orion hand controller.
It is appraently capable of being autoguided, though I'm not sure how at this point.
I just got one last week, but of course it's been cloudy/rainy since I got it.
EricTheAstroJunkie
Senior Member
Without guiding I could do 2-3 minutes with round stars with my D7000 and Tamron 150-600mm at 600mm (no guiding), keeper rate was around 50% though and if conditions were suboptimal it'd be even more limited. This was just a single (crappy) test exposure trying to image the western veil nebula:
I monkeyed around with that setup working on weight balance and how to adjust the camera, did some more test shooting, this was a stack of 16 exposures at 4.5 minutes (again no guiding) at 600mm, again not a great picture, but just testing stuff out:
Since the keeper rate was so poor I decided to get a guiding setup to use with the mount, this is what the setup looked like (potato quality) with my D7000 and Samyang 135mm lens, it has an Orion 50mm guide scope and a ToupTek guidecam mounted on top of the camera hotshoe, then a small windows tablet running everything (backyard nikon, PHD2, etc), I was even doing 1-axis dithering with this setup:
With that setup I could do 3-4 minute exposures with a keeper rate of 75+% no problem, super portable and easy to setup/use, the only crap thing was getting the target in the field of view of my camera. Here are some shots with that setup:
After that I got sick of the issues of getting the target in the field of view so I picked up a Sirius EQ-G mount with goto, definitely made life easier in that regard.
I monkeyed around with that setup working on weight balance and how to adjust the camera, did some more test shooting, this was a stack of 16 exposures at 4.5 minutes (again no guiding) at 600mm, again not a great picture, but just testing stuff out:
Since the keeper rate was so poor I decided to get a guiding setup to use with the mount, this is what the setup looked like (potato quality) with my D7000 and Samyang 135mm lens, it has an Orion 50mm guide scope and a ToupTek guidecam mounted on top of the camera hotshoe, then a small windows tablet running everything (backyard nikon, PHD2, etc), I was even doing 1-axis dithering with this setup:
With that setup I could do 3-4 minute exposures with a keeper rate of 75+% no problem, super portable and easy to setup/use, the only crap thing was getting the target in the field of view of my camera. Here are some shots with that setup:
After that I got sick of the issues of getting the target in the field of view so I picked up a Sirius EQ-G mount with goto, definitely made life easier in that regard.
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EricTheAstroJunkie
Senior Member
See my followup post here about details with my guiding setup using the Star Adventurer, I used an Orion 50mm guidescope and a ToupTek guidecam connected to a small windows tablet running PHD2 and BackyardNikon, even did 1-axis dithering:
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This is way too complex and heavy to bring handheld out into the dark when moving around.
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EricTheAstroJunkie
Senior Member
? I did it many many times, easily the most cumbersome part of the whole thing was the 150-600mm lens, definitely not the guiding setup which was extremely light and easy to setup and use. You can even now buy this smaller guidescope and cam setup: https://optcorp.com/products/qhy-mini-guide-scope-with-mount
You're not going to get much more portable of a tracking mount and guiding setup for 300mm+ focal lengths that this, believe me I spent a longggg time looking at portable setups to take backpacking and on long road trips. The reviews of the autoguiding setups I read were not great and you still need a guidescope for it so you don't save anything in terms of weight or complexity.
You're not going to get much more portable of a tracking mount and guiding setup for 300mm+ focal lengths that this, believe me I spent a longggg time looking at portable setups to take backpacking and on long road trips. The reviews of the autoguiding setups I read were not great and you still need a guidescope for it so you don't save anything in terms of weight or complexity.
I agree, but maybe people need to define what portability and complexity means for them.
There are many mounts talked about here. But any mount with a worm gears that are only a few inches in diameter will have significant tracking errors. Example: with a 6-inch (150 mm) diameter gear, which is much larger than any of the "portable" mounts discussed here, 1 arc-second at the radius of 3 inches (75 mm) is 0.000015 inches (0.00036 mm, 0.36 micron!!!!). No mechanical gear can be that accurate, so autoguiding is a necessity adding to weight, bulk and complexity of a portable system.
300 mm focal length with a camera with 4-micron pixel is 2.75 arc-seconds per pixel. Tracking needs to be accurate to about peak to peak of 2 arc-seconds for round stars. Increase precision by 2x for 600 mm.
The Astrotrac uses a tangent arm and a lead screw and nut with many threads in contact at a radius of 14 inches. This enables higher tracking accuracy (5-arc-seconds if I remember correctly), but better on a short exposure of a minute or two.
The Fornax Lightrack II is also a long tangent arm using a friction drive which reduces periodic error with a claimed accuracy of +/- 1 arc-second peak to peak, better in short ~1 minute exposures. Thus 300, 400, 600mm images are possible with no guiding.
Seagull Nebula 300 mm Fornax lightrack, no guiding.
Eta Carinae Nebula 300 mm, Astrotrac, no guiding, 2/3 full resolution. full frame image
Omega Nebula, M17 420 mm (300 + 1.4x TC), Astrotrac, no guiding, full resolution
Whirlpool Galaxy, M51 420 mm (300 + 1.4x TC), Astrotrac, no guiding, 1.33x full resolution.
Here is my setup, which I can lift with one hand:
Everything needed for deep sky astrophotography can be lifted with one hand
The Fornax lightrack II with the same lens and tripod is similar in weight. I use both. I have 2 astrotracs and 1 lightrack and a Losmandy G11 and 2 other heavy equatorial mounts. I rarely use the big equatorial mounts.
More details: Very Portable Astrophotography
Roger
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Sure. A key point. Individual needs differ a lot.
At my location we rarely have steady air, so 2" is more than I need to ask for. Also, I am happy with everything between 200 and 400 mm focal length.
With the first generation Astrotrac, I can do about 30-60 sec with a 200 mm lens and 24 Mp FF sensor. Generation 2 (yours) should be more precise, from what I have read.
That's impressive!
This is exactly the portability I am looking for. I use a small scooter battery that is strapped under the tripod for power supply. No worries at bitingly cold nights, and still within your "one arm exercise"... ;-)Here is my setup, which I can lift with one hand:
Everything needed for deep sky astrophotography can be lifted with one hand
I know …
Thanks a lot for your informative post!
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well what you don't see are these two bodybuilders lifting the two hidden tripod legs up from belowSure. A key point. Individual needs differ a lot.
At my location we rarely have steady air, so 2" is more than I need to ask for. Also, I am happy with everything between 200 and 400 mm focal length.
With the first generation Astrotrac, I can do about 30-60 sec with a 200 mm lens and 24 Mp FF sensor. Generation 2 (yours) should be more precise, from what I have read.
That's impressive!
This is exactly the portability I am looking for. I use a small scooter battery that is strapped under the tripod for power supply. No worries at bitingly cold nights, and still within your "one arm exercise"... ;-)Here is my setup, which I can lift with one hand:
Everything needed for deep sky astrophotography can be lifted with one hand
I know …
Thanks a lot for your informative post!
--
Best regards
_____
Stefan
Uh-Oh--a conspiracy theory.well what you don't see are these two bodybuilders lifting the two hidden tripod legs up from belowSure. A key point. Individual needs differ a lot.
At my location we rarely have steady air, so 2" is more than I need to ask for. Also, I am happy with everything between 200 and 400 mm focal length.
With the first generation Astrotrac, I can do about 30-60 sec with a 200 mm lens and 24 Mp FF sensor. Generation 2 (yours) should be more precise, from what I have read.
That's impressive!
This is exactly the portability I am looking for. I use a small scooter battery that is strapped under the tripod for power supply. No worries at bitingly cold nights, and still within your "one arm exercise"... ;-)Here is my setup, which I can lift with one hand:
Everything needed for deep sky astrophotography can be lifted with one hand
I know …
Thanks a lot for your informative post!
A little late in this thread, but my two cents:
I have a Lighttrack II and while I agree with most people here that it is a fantastic tracker, it does have some serious limitations that made me order a new Astrotrac360 ( the full package)
First of all , tracking on the light track is fantastic. 300, 3min is no problem at all, if you get it properly polar aligned, this requires a properly aligned polar scope or Polemaster.
However a 300mm lens and heavy camera is cumbersome and sometimes objects are difficult to frame depending on where in the sky you are pointing. A declination unit helps a bit (I have one from AstroTrac), also with the weight and balance, but overall, I found it to be a bit of a pain. Once you are tracking you do not have much time as it runs out of range quite quickly and than you have to go through all the motions again to get your object framed properly again.
I have also used it with a 150-600 mm lens and while tracking wise it can handle it, I think weight wise it is not really up to it and again pointing is difficult and sometimes frustrating.
Now the new AstroTrac is expensive, especially the whole package, but if it will live up to its claims we are talking a compact full go to (via phone app or similar) equatorial mount, that can also be used modular (simple tracker as well) and for longer focal lengths will be a much more capable mount.
I have been in this hobby for a very long time already, and also use an Astrophysics Mach 1 mount for larger telescopes. Since I always have to travel to dark sites, I have always wished for a smallish and portable but capable GEM and with the new AstroTrac, I thing I many have fond it.
We have been waiting for it for a while now, but it should be ready soon.
My Fornax will be for sale soon.
Peter
I have a Lighttrack II and while I agree with most people here that it is a fantastic tracker, it does have some serious limitations that made me order a new Astrotrac360 ( the full package)
First of all , tracking on the light track is fantastic. 300, 3min is no problem at all, if you get it properly polar aligned, this requires a properly aligned polar scope or Polemaster.
However a 300mm lens and heavy camera is cumbersome and sometimes objects are difficult to frame depending on where in the sky you are pointing. A declination unit helps a bit (I have one from AstroTrac), also with the weight and balance, but overall, I found it to be a bit of a pain. Once you are tracking you do not have much time as it runs out of range quite quickly and than you have to go through all the motions again to get your object framed properly again.
I have also used it with a 150-600 mm lens and while tracking wise it can handle it, I think weight wise it is not really up to it and again pointing is difficult and sometimes frustrating.
Now the new AstroTrac is expensive, especially the whole package, but if it will live up to its claims we are talking a compact full go to (via phone app or similar) equatorial mount, that can also be used modular (simple tracker as well) and for longer focal lengths will be a much more capable mount.
I have been in this hobby for a very long time already, and also use an Astrophysics Mach 1 mount for larger telescopes. Since I always have to travel to dark sites, I have always wished for a smallish and portable but capable GEM and with the new AstroTrac, I thing I many have fond it.
We have been waiting for it for a while now, but it should be ready soon.
My Fornax will be for sale soon.
Peter
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