Good news for Sony and Sony Users

[Samsolar]

This is good news for A Mount users and E mount users. I can remember a time back when Apple nearly went under and look where they are at now. Sony's success with the E mount will keep the A mount around. I like many A mount users can be thankful that Sony has done well in the mirrorless interchangeable.

camerashttps://www.dpreview.com/news/0947201864/sony-claims-top-spot-in-full-frame-interchangeable-lens-camera-sales

 

[AsphaltPlanet]

I'm not sure it's good news for Sony A-mount users.

I'm not trying to start another doom and gloom thread for A-mount, but I can't from a business perspective, understand the logic of having two competing product lines that deliver almost effectively the same end result. Having two product lines requires more R&D spending than just one, which is particularly relevant when one of the product lines (A-mount) sees declining sales and is decidedly older technology.

I could be wrong, but I don't see the success of E-mount doing anything to keep A-mount around.

 

[Chris Malcolm]

I'm not sure it's good news for Sony A-mount users.

I'm not trying to start another doom and gloom thread for A-mount, but I can't from a business perspective, understand the logic of having two competing product lines that deliver almost effectively the same end result. Having two product lines requires more R&D spending than just one, which is particularly relevant when one of the product lines (A-mount) sees declining sales and is decidedly older technology.

I could be wrong, but I don't see the success of E-mount doing anything to keep A-mount around.

E-mount was designed to capitalise on the special virtues of a very compact camera which could use anyone else's lenses with mount adapters. They couldn't entirely get rid of the mirror in the A-mount because phase-based AF with separate dedicated AF sensors still outperformed image-sensor AF in certain respects. E-mount made up for that disadvantage with other advantages, such as small size. As E-mount performance has improved and gone full frame, along with big long focal length lenses, the compact size of the E-mount has become more of a disadvantage than an advantage.

E-mount also became the R&D development vehicle for improving image-sensor AF. If it hasn't already done so, it will soon have surpassed the AF performance of the A-mount SLT models. When that happens the SLT mirror will no longer be needed. That will free up extra body space in new mirrorless A-mount bodies which can be used for new technology, such as extra sensor movements for in-camera tilt-shift. Plus it will have the advantages of bigger batteries and more body space for control buttons, dials, wheels, fully articulated screen, etc.. The A-mount could also be upgraded in a backwards compatible fashion to incorporate electronic aperture control and a few other extras.

The big problem with A-mount to E-mount converters has been the need to build in the SLT mirror and its phase based AF system. Oddly while A-mount AF has improved a lot since then, they've never updated the A-mount adapter. I suspect the reason for that is that they've always seen the A-mount adapter with SLT mirror as a temporary fix to a temporary problem. Once the A-mount no longer needs an SLT mirror a new mirrorless A-to-E mount adapter with no loss of performance can be made.

 

[felix from the suburbs]

None of us know Sony's long term plans for sure. But it does seem like they have spent a lot of R&D and promotion on all things E mount. And, based on the absolute lack of any marketing for A Mount (at least here in Canada) it seems like the corporate budget for A mount promotion is pretty meager. I would expect that they are likely gearing up for a challenge from Nikon's proposed new mirrorless cameras. I think that mirrorless will eventually be like film versus digital. There may be a slow initial adoption but newer technology will ultimately prevail just the way digital prevailed over film. In that scenario my beloved A mount will likely be considered really old technology at Sony management and will be allowed to continue fading away until it can officially killed off due to low sales.

 

[sybersitizen]

It barely qualifies as news at all. As I said already in a far more active thread on the subject:

"Market leader" success figures are an ongoing and moving target. Sony is "winning" in this particular time segment, having lost in many preceding time segments. It's like taking the lead by ten feet in the middle of a marathon - nice to acknowledge, but not exactly worthy of hoopla.

How long will the lead last over the remaining stretch, and who will actually "win" the race? That's where the hoopla comes in. I don't know what else can be said.

 

[Milo_the_photographer]

This is good news for A Mount users and E mount users. I can remember a time back when Apple nearly went under and look where they are at now. Sony's success with the E mount will keep the A mount around. I like many A mount users can be thankful that Sony has done well in the mirrorless interchangeable.

camerashttps://www.dpreview.com/news/0947201864/sony-claims-top-spot-in-full-frame-interchangeable-lens-camera-sales

Nothing can save A mount, it's dying and E mount have surpassed in every way possible. Sony's position won't save A mount, it's only need until the number of native lenses on E mount is complete and it almost is.

I don't expect to see any new A mount lenses or cameras, but the official discontinuousness can least years, if it will ever be officially announced.

What I do hope for is an A to E adapter with FULL functionality, once this is done, A mount can be killed without any of us suffering over the lose.

 

[woodturner]

"A mount can be killed without any of us suffering over the lose."

I got back into photography recently, I looked at both A and E mount. I was not really aware of the depth of feeling that goes with mount choice.

I just chose the system that "came to the hand" better for me, I found the E mount stuff a bit too small to operate by comparison.

Also I had heard about legacy lenses, which was a bad move in the end as I now have lots:-D

Maybe I just have large hands or oversize fingers (no comments please), but the reason I went with the larger series of cameras was that I felt they were easier to operate and hold.

And yes, I do use a smartphone and text from it, and yes it is a right pita because the "keyboard" is too small!

For me it was the usability of the camera that came first, not the mount. No point having fantastic functionality if the ergonomics mean I won't want to use the camera. I wanted something where the design of the camera didn't get in the way of taking the photograph.

I would not "suffer over the loss" of the death of A mount only if:

1. My A77ii broke terminally and
2. There was a full function A to E adapter and
3. The E mount cameras on offer were bigger and a better fit for my (clumsy) hands.

So just providing an adaptor will not do it for me.

I was in Jessops in the UK for an afternoon 2 weeks ago, and overheard the salesman really selling the A7, helped I guess that he had moved from Nikon to Sony. No mention of the larger bodies at all. In a quiet moment I went again to handle them, but I guess I am now used to the larger bodies, as I didn't regret my decision.

So I guess, for me at least, size does matter.

Cheers,

Eric

 

[zackiedawg]

"Market leader" success figures are an ongoing and moving target. Sony is "winning" in this particular time segment, having lost in many preceding time segments. It's like taking the lead by ten feet in the middle of a marathon - nice to acknowledge, but not exactly worthy of hoopla.

How long will the lead last over the remaining stretch, and who will actually "win" the race? That's where the hoopla comes in. I don't know what else can be said.

I'd add the one important factor often overlooked in these constant forum threads about who's #1, during what period of time, in what region or country, et al: A company doesn't need to be #1 to be successful, and in almost any business, there isn't just a winner and everyone else quits.

While occasionally, some executive with one company or another will spout off with some optimistic comment about moving up to #1, the broader picture is that many companies can be competitive and successful in any given marketplace...and that profitability is key, not rank.

So there's no reason there can't be Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, and a few others all doing well enough and being profitable enough to continue to offer cameras, regardless of which one of them is '#1' in any particular rank. For many years, General Motors was #1, but you wouldn't have found many other car companies who wished they were GM - they ranked top in volume, but no profitability and huge debt load. Meanwhile, niche companies like BMW and Porsche were not even in the top 10 in sales, but were massively profitable.

I can see A-mount surviving if Sony stays healthy and the camera business turns a nice profit...while E-mount will likely see all the R&D and advertising dollars for the foreseeable future, I could also see the gap between adapting A-mount lenses and E-mount technology closing to the point where they could merge the two systems seamlessly enough with new larger full-frame bodies more like A-mount in design for professional use, but capable of using A-mount lenses seamlessly via a glassless adapter as well as using E-mount.

Most A-mount users' primary complaints with the idea of using an e-mount body is that the adapters are clunky or slow, that the focus systems native to the body don't work well with the lenses, that the bodies are smaller and thinner, etc. So if a new E-mount body were designed very much like an A-mount full-frame body, and the adapter was glass-less and simple, very strong and easy to mount or even be left on the camera, and there was no loss in performance or speed or functionality when using the adapter with A-mount lenses, I think most A-mount users would no longer have any reason to complain about it.

 

[Lensmate]

This is good news for A Mount users and E mount users. I can remember a time back when Apple nearly went under and look where they are at now. Sony's success with the E mount will keep the A mount around. I like many A mount users can be thankful that Sony has done well in the mirrorless interchangeable.

camerashttps://www.dpreview.com/news/0947201864/sony-claims-top-spot-in-full-frame-interchangeable-lens-camera-sales

Nothing can save A mount, it's dying and E mount have surpassed in every way possible. Sony's position won't save A mount, it's only need until the number of native lenses on E mount is complete and it almost is.

I don't expect to see any new A mount lenses or cameras, but the official discontinuousness can least years, if it will ever be officially announced.

What I do hope for is an A to E adapter with FULL functionality, once this is done, A mount can be killed without any of us suffering over the lose.

Good grief man, get a grip on reality!

-Martin P

https://www.flickr.com/photos/photosauraus_rex/

 

[Lensmate]

"A mount can be killed without any of us suffering over the lose."

I got back into photography recently, I looked at both A and E mount. I was not really aware of the depth of feeling that goes with mount choice.

I just chose the system that "came to the hand" better for me, I found the E mount stuff a bit too small to operate by comparison.

Also I had heard about legacy lenses, which was a bad move in the end as I now have lots:-D

Maybe I just have large hands or oversize fingers (no comments please), but the reason I went with the larger series of cameras was that I felt they were easier to operate and hold.

And yes, I do use a smartphone and text from it, and yes it is a right pita because the "keyboard" is too small!

For me it was the usability of the camera that came first, not the mount. No point having fantastic functionality if the ergonomics mean I won't want to use the camera. I wanted something where the design of the camera didn't get in the way of taking the photograph.

I would not "suffer over the loss" of the death of A mount only if:

1. My A77ii broke terminally and
2. There was a full function A to E adapter and
3. The E mount cameras on offer were bigger and a better fit for my (clumsy) hands.

So just providing an adaptor will not do it for me.

I was in Jessops in the UK for an afternoon 2 weeks ago, and overheard the salesman really selling the A7, helped I guess that he had moved from Nikon to Sony. No mention of the larger bodies at all. In a quiet moment I went again to handle them, but I guess I am now used to the larger bodies, as I didn't regret my decision.

So I guess, for me at least, size does matter.

Cheers,

Eric

Good call Eric!

I wouldn't worry about all the doomsday/sky is falling types. A-mount is just fine!

I recall all the panicking prior to the a99m2 release...and what a camera that is....blimey!

-Martin P

https://www.flickr.com/photos/photosauraus_rex/

 

[Milo_the_photographer]

This is good news for A Mount users and E mount users. I can remember a time back when Apple nearly went under and look where they are at now. Sony's success with the E mount will keep the A mount around. I like many A mount users can be thankful that Sony has done well in the mirrorless interchangeable.

camerashttps://www.dpreview.com/news/0947201864/sony-claims-top-spot-in-full-frame-interchangeable-lens-camera-sales

Nothing can save A mount, it's dying and E mount have surpassed in every way possible. Sony's position won't save A mount, it's only need until the number of native lenses on E mount is complete and it almost is.

I don't expect to see any new A mount lenses or cameras, but the official discontinuousness can least years, if it will ever be officially announced.

What I do hope for is an A to E adapter with FULL functionality, once this is done, A mount can be killed without any of us suffering over the lose.

Good grief man, get a grip on reality!

-Martin P

https://www.flickr.com/photos/photosauraus_rex/

Meaning?

 

[Milo_the_photographer]

"A mount can be killed without any of us suffering over the lose."

I got back into photography recently, I looked at both A and E mount. I was not really aware of the depth of feeling that goes with mount choice.

I just chose the system that "came to the hand" better for me, I found the E mount stuff a bit too small to operate by comparison.

Also I had heard about legacy lenses, which was a bad move in the end as I now have lots:-D

Maybe I just have large hands or oversize fingers (no comments please), but the reason I went with the larger series of cameras was that I felt they were easier to operate and hold.

And yes, I do use a smartphone and text from it, and yes it is a right pita because the "keyboard" is too small!

For me it was the usability of the camera that came first, not the mount. No point having fantastic functionality if the ergonomics mean I won't want to use the camera. I wanted something where the design of the camera didn't get in the way of taking the photograph.

I would not "suffer over the loss" of the death of A mount only if:

1. My A77ii broke terminally and
2. There was a full function A to E adapter and
3. The E mount cameras on offer were bigger and a better fit for my (clumsy) hands.

So just providing an adaptor will not do it for me.

I was in Jessops in the UK for an afternoon 2 weeks ago, and overheard the salesman really selling the A7, helped I guess that he had moved from Nikon to Sony. No mention of the larger bodies at all. In a quiet moment I went again to handle them, but I guess I am now used to the larger bodies, as I didn't regret my decision.

So I guess, for me at least, size does matter.

Cheers,

Eric

True A mount cameras have some advantages like size etc. however, this not due to the mount but Sony's design. They could make an A99 II in E mount if they wanted to.

The main problem of A mount is the lack of Sigma lenses, hardly any of the new Tamron releases, slow camera updates and virtually no Sony releases or updates. The ML do outperform to some extent already and will do so even more in the future.

dSLR are older technology, ML will be the future.

 

[woodturner]

"A mount can be killed without any of us suffering over the lose."

I got back into photography recently, I looked at both A and E mount. I was not really aware of the depth of feeling that goes with mount choice.

I just chose the system that "came to the hand" better for me, I found the E mount stuff a bit too small to operate by comparison.

Also I had heard about legacy lenses, which was a bad move in the end as I now have lots:-D

Maybe I just have large hands or oversize fingers (no comments please), but the reason I went with the larger series of cameras was that I felt they were easier to operate and hold.

And yes, I do use a smartphone and text from it, and yes it is a right pita because the "keyboard" is too small!

For me it was the usability of the camera that came first, not the mount. No point having fantastic functionality if the ergonomics mean I won't want to use the camera. I wanted something where the design of the camera didn't get in the way of taking the photograph.

I would not "suffer over the loss" of the death of A mount only if:

1. My A77ii broke terminally and
2. There was a full function A to E adapter and
3. The E mount cameras on offer were bigger and a better fit for my (clumsy) hands.

So just providing an adaptor will not do it for me.

I was in Jessops in the UK for an afternoon 2 weeks ago, and overheard the salesman really selling the A7, helped I guess that he had moved from Nikon to Sony. No mention of the larger bodies at all. In a quiet moment I went again to handle them, but I guess I am now used to the larger bodies, as I didn't regret my decision.

So I guess, for me at least, size does matter.

Cheers,

Eric

True A mount cameras have some advantages like size etc. however, this not due to the mount but Sony's design. They could make an A99 II in E mount if they wanted to.

The main problem of A mount is the lack of Sigma lenses, hardly any of the new Tamron releases, slow camera updates and virtually no Sony releases or updates. The ML do outperform to some extent already and will do so even more in the future.

dSLR are older technology, ML will be the future.

When you say dSLR's are old tech, its true (remember 35mm?), SLT is a step forward. If ML is developed to be superior in every way, great. Perhaps one chip with the 42mp sensor on the front and all the other electronics on the back in a solid block? Fantastic.

Just don't put it in a tiny case so I can't hold it, as however great miniaturisation is, my hands haven't shrunk to match and as long as my fingers are needed to operate it I prefer something larger.

The Sony cameras that fit my hands nicely happen to be A mount. I think about it that way round, I am buying, above all, a camera to take pictures, not buying a mount as a talking point. The mount type is one of the many subsidiary features of a camera. Like the design of flash shoe, although that is another story in itself.

Once having invested in lenses, does my picture change? At present no, I could get an adaptor to mount to a smaller body, but why would I do that? It doesn't have the ergonomics for me. (A mount has had the advantage of access to legacy lenses at an economic price. I maybe have already too many (is that possible?). )

I even inherited a few family photos on plate glass, so I can see tech evolve, but the ergonomics will move more slowly. Standard bed sizes have got longer as we gradually recover from the stunting effects of the early industrial revolution, but that's about it I think.

The main problem with cameras that happen to have E mount seems to be they are designed a size too small for me... so I didn't buy one.

Some Smartphones and laptops seem to have become about as small and slim as they can go without becoming fragile and unusable. and there is still a solid market for larger sizes. I think the "smaller is better" train has about run out of steam, at least for the design of the human interface of things.

So maybe Sigma are making a long term mistake in not doing more A mount?

 

[JimH123]

Once the A-mount no longer needs an SLT mirror a new mirrorless A-to-E mount adapter with no loss of performance can be made.

That's what I'm waiting for. And perhaps it is something that now having to compete with Nikon and later Canon will cause Sony to address.

Once this happens, there is no need to hang on to A-mount bodies.

 

[Tim Crammond]

This is good news for A Mount users and E mount users. I can remember a time back when Apple nearly went under and look where they are at now. Sony's success with the E mount will keep the A mount around.

Like their development of the CD kept the Walkman around.

Tim

 

[woodturner]

Once the A-mount no longer needs an SLT mirror a new mirrorless A-to-E mount adapter with no loss of performance can be made.

That's what I'm waiting for. And perhaps it is something that now having to compete with Nikon and later Canon will cause Sony to address.

Once this happens, there is no need to hang on to A-mount bodies.

I prefer to get to grips with larger bodies so I will hang on. For a mirrorless A77 for example.

Eric

 

[EXX]

There are more examples: Minidisc, Betamax. Sony kept supporting them for a very long time.

 

[Samsolar]

This is good news for A Mount users and E mount users. I can remember a time back when Apple nearly went under and look where they are at now. Sony's success with the E mount will keep the A mount around.

Like their development of the CD kept the Walkman around.

Tim

Not a good comparison, vinyl is still around

 

[EXX]

So is A-mount ;-)

 

[Tim Crammond]

This is good news for A Mount users and E mount users. I can remember a time back when Apple nearly went under and look where they are at now. Sony's success with the E mount will keep the A mount around.

Like their development of the CD kept the Walkman around.

Tim

Not a good comparison, vinyl is still around

Where I live, not since about 1993.