What would Asian and European women think?

[eques]

and started into more serious photography, I'd buy the 24MP Fuji, which is not only superior in most specs, but also at least 20% cheaper.

Some people here want 16 MP for ever, but this will kill M43 in the long run. Just you wait.

Peter

..the 16mp m43 sensor could be a 'sweet spot', just as it is for the aps-c 16mp sensors.. where it works well with the existing lenses..

..Cheers..

Agree about 16MP being a sweet spot, at least as long as you view on <= 4K, but this people only come to know after they bought into the M43 system, and they will never know it, when not.

Peter

 

[Paul B Jones]

On what possible basis could the typical DPR commentator be expected to answer this? Most of us have never even met a woman.

 

[bobn2]

On what possible basis could the typical DPR commentator be expected to answer this? Most of us have never even met a woman.

I think I did once. Might be my memory playing games.

 

[Lepewhi]

Was thinking the same thing.

 

[traveler_101]

In my limited experience of women, those who are not interested in photography, if they get a camera, get one based on what they want to do with it. Those who are interested in photography treat it much the same as a man does. I think that is the flaw in designing an ILC directed at women. Essentially, women in the market for an ILC are the same demographic as men -keen photographers who are quite aware of what they are buying.

 

[bobn2]

In my limited experience of women, those who are not interested in photography, if they get a camera, get one based on what they want to do with it. Those who are interested in photography treat it much the same as a man does. I think that is the flaw in designing an ILC directed at women. Essentially, women in the market for an ILC are the same demographic as men -keen photographers who are quite aware of what they are buying.

 

[JakeJY]

My guess is that the typical woman buyer won't care too much about 4K or spending more for those 4K requirements (SD card, processing or editing power, software, time and effort for downsizing to HD, file transfer times..) I also think most such buyers will just use the kit OIS lens, which makes IBIS not really such an advantage. Other minor advantages like a slightly faster flash sync speed or slightly higher fps would be of even less significance to such buyers.

In all other areas, controls, performance, IQ and features that are significant, the Fuji is better or much better, e.g. PDAF+CDAF, 24MP, APSC sensor, dials, ...

It's so blatantly obvious that you are using your own biases to assign what is significant in a camera. How would you know that your "typical woman buyer" would not care about 4K or IBIS? You were the one who made the argument in the other thread that women would also do spec shopping, but you dismiss all the advantages the E-PL9 has as "insignificant" and focus only on the ones that are an advantage on the APS-C camera.

I therefore think that, even for the target female buyers, the E-PL9 would be a tough sell, unless we can assume they are ready to spend big to get the E-PL9 + 12-32mm lens, but then wouldn't something like a RX100 III or V, with an EVF be even better?

Again, I trust that Olympus marketers know more about their home Japanese market than you or I do. Neither of us are in that market. The sales results from recent years shows Olympus is doing well in that market.

 

[JakeJY]

Good on you privileged old, white, male showing your misogyny as well as racism. Have you ever considered the other gendes inclusion perhaps being targeted with this program?

Does every camera have to be big, masculine and phallic?

 

[Dana F]

Wow, 4 pages of guys deciding what camera a woman wants.........LOL

 

[JakeJY]

Wow, 4 pages of guys deciding what camera a woman wants.........LOL

And beyond that, many pages of non-Japanese, non-Asians claiming they know what the Japanese and Asian markets want. Reminds me of all the comments in DPR about GF8 and GF10 and also the Casio TR series selfie cameras. They may have limited appeal in the US and European market, but in the Japan and Asian markets they do perfectly fine (the TR series was a very successful line for Casio).

On that note, here's the marketing pages for the GF10 in Japan and Singapore, it's blatantly obvious what demographic they are targeting:

http://panasonic.jp/dc/g_series/gf10/

https://www.panasonic.com/sg/consumer/cameras-camcorder/lumix-g-mirrorless-cameras/dc-gf10.html

 

[Sergey Borachev]

Good on you privileged old, white, male showing your misogyny as well as racism. Have you ever considered the other gendes inclusion perhaps being targeted with this program?

Does every camera have to be big, masculine and phallic?

--
Thoughts, Musings, Ideas and Images from South Gippsland
https://australianimage.com.au

I should point out (read my previous messages here, and also on the other 2 threads about the E-PL9), that I do not hold the same msogyny or racist views that you seem to detect.

I actually said in the others posts I disagree with others' apparent suggestion that those targeted Asian ladies are not so cluey, and I said that all those I know have brains, and that they would look at more than fashion. ... Check the messages I wrote out.

No one claimed that Asian women don't have brains. You are the one making a non sequitur argument and also doing a strawman (the claim was never that the market *only* cares about camera aesthetics but that it's of higher importance in those markets)

Let's break it down:

1) if a person values camera aesthetics/fashion, then he/she doesn't have brains.

2) the claim is Asian women value camera aesthetics/fashion

3) therefore it follows the people claiming #2 is claiming Asian women don't have brains

First of all your argument of #1 is not true, and even it was, the people claiming #2 do not necessarily agree. So the conclusion in #3 does not follow.

What would you call the practise of charging a high price for products with clearly very little substance in the main functions than competitors, due to the apparent lack of interest in technical details shown by a particular section of the buyers? You can computer's what is meant by"brains" in this context. Hint: it's metaphoric.

What you wrote here and elsewhere seems to indicate a blind faith in Olympus and their strategy and products worth, apologising for your favourite brand consistently, regardless of what the facts are and therefore hardly worth reading. Bye. You have been blocked.

 

[JakeJY]

Good on you privileged old, white, male showing your misogyny as well as racism. Have you ever considered the other gendes inclusion perhaps being targeted with this program?

Does every camera have to be big, masculine and phallic?

--
Thoughts, Musings, Ideas and Images from South Gippsland
https://australianimage.com.au

I should point out (read my previous messages here, and also on the other 2 threads about the E-PL9), that I do not hold the same msogyny or racist views that you seem to detect.

I actually said in the others posts I disagree with others' apparent suggestion that those targeted Asian ladies are not so cluey, and I said that all those I know have brains, and that they would look at more than fashion. ... Check the messages I wrote out.

No one claimed that Asian women don't have brains. You are the one making a non sequitur argument and also doing a strawman (the claim was never that the market *only* cares about camera aesthetics but that it's of higher importance in those markets)

Let's break it down:

1) if a person values camera aesthetics/fashion, then he/she doesn't have brains.

2) the claim is Asian women value camera aesthetics/fashion

3) therefore it follows the people claiming #2 is claiming Asian women don't have brains

First of all your argument of #1 is not true, and even it was, the people claiming #2 do not necessarily agree. So the conclusion in #3 does not follow.

What would you call the practise of charging a high price for products with clearly very little substance in the main functions than competitors, due to the apparent lack of interest in technical details shown by a particular section of the buyers? You can computer's what is meant by"brains" in this context. Hint: it's metaphoric.

The problem is you are putting a value of $0 for the styling (and branding). The EPL-9 costs only 9435JPY (87USD) more than the X-A5, it's possible for people to be willing to pay a bit more for the style and branding (people have put of the Apple analogy previously), something you fail to acknowledge. On the specs there are pros and cons on either side.

What you wrote here and elsewhere seems to indicate a blind faith in Olympus and their strategy and products worth, apologising for your favourite brand consistently, regardless of what the facts are and therefore hardly worth reading. Bye. You have been blocked.

I have no allegiance with the Olympus brand nor do I own any product from them (I'm a recent MFT owner and only have a Panasonic camera and lenses right now; I have owned Nikon cameras far longer than MFT).

I put it elsewhere, I personally wouldn't buy a camera like the E-PL8 or E-PL9 at the given prices (back when shopping I considered the E-PL7 when it was on sale at end of life), but I'm not the target demographic. I crossed Fuji off the list early on because they don't have a pancake zoom (the new 15-45mm is more compact, but still not pancake).

The facts are Olympus just took number one in Japan for mirrorless (as they did for recent years) so that shows they are doing something right in the Japanese market. Nothing you have posted so far proves that their strategy is wrong.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/09666...canon-dominates-dslrs-tops-sony-in-mirrorless

 

[traveler_101]

In my limited experience of women, those who are not interested in photography, if they get a camera, get one based on what they want to do with it. Those who are interested in photography treat it much the same as a man does. I think that is the flaw in designing an ILC directed at women. Essentially, women in the market for an ILC are the same demographic as men -keen photographers who are quite aware of what they are buying.

 

[bobn2]

In my limited experience of women, those who are not interested in photography, if they get a camera, get one based on what they want to do with it. Those who are interested in photography treat it much the same as a man does. I think that is the flaw in designing an ILC directed at women. Essentially, women in the market for an ILC are the same demographic as men -keen photographers who are quite aware of what they are buying.

 

[Lepewhi]

But, are cameras race specific? Are there different cameras for African, South Pacific or Central and South American women?

 

[jwilliams]

the only real difference between men and women photographers who just want something better than a cell phone is what they think about styling. As for features neither care a lot about technical details. The difference to me would be that a women might buy a pink camera where a man wouldn't be caught dead with it. So styling more than features differentiates who might buy a particular camera as far as women vs men.

Features and technical specs are more determined by the level of photographic knowledge and that applies equally across both women and men.

 

[Lu1Wang]

Marketing in Asia is a lot more direct due to the social environment being a lot less "politically correct". If you check out any of the ads of these cameras they are clearly marketed towards women and could even be labeled as "sexism" by SJW standard. These cameras are even designed and colored to look like a series of purses from Kate Spade and such. Obviously these cameras are doing really well otherwise manufacturers wouldn't make a new one each year like bags and purses. Most camera stores there have displays for these models and they really do stand out from the rest from a visual perspective.

On the other hand, taking picture via LCD live view also works really well with the newer cell phone generation. viewfinder is slowly becoming a thing of the past for them. Manufacturers nowadays really need to make the whole menu system works with touch screen though if they really want to go after that market.

As for those whom are concerned about our welfare, I gotta say we Asians got a lot more to worry about than the petty social justice stuff.

 

[Mystic38]

That the vast majority here are discussing features, specifications, & prices... as if those are the only buying criteria.

ie.. Here we are, a bunch of camera geeks second guessing an entire marketing department of a company that has sold internationally for over 50 years..

For example?.

is a pair of shoes that hurt your feet after two hours really worth $1000?..

would anyone ever need 25 handbags/purses?..

see the point here?..

There are far more criteria to a buying decision than anyone here gives credence to, including fashion, jealousy, emotion, impulse.. so let it go and just let the market decide...

..after all, If the E-PL9 gets to be viewed as a fashion accessory then Olympus will have hit a home run and the entire M43 community will benefit.

 

[jwilliams]

That the vast majority here are discussing features, specifications, & prices... as if those are the only buying criteria.

ie.. Here we are, a bunch of camera geeks second guessing an entire marketing department of a company that has sold internationally for over 50 years..

In case you didn't notice, the company nearly went under. Add to that that the other divisions, not the camera division, were what was keeping it afloat. It is entirely possible their camera marketing department has been doing a terrible job. Don't you think?

 

[joeletx]

I might wonder why women form any part of the world would wish to have a camera tool that was any different from a man with a similar level of interest in photography.