Metering difference

[lonnit]

Can anyone explain the real metering diff between 300D and 10D? I'm now startign to have a hard time justifying $500 for the metering diff and a plastic body. I don't think the ISO3200 nor the extra consecutive frames will make much of a difference to me. My problem is that the lenses I want come over a grand - that $500 would go a long way towards lenses. After 6 mo of waiting to buy the D10 I'm finally ready and I can't imagine anything else. Now the 300D comes along and I"m scared that I'll miss out on something! What will the extra $ get me for real?

Thanks!
Lonnit

 

[DavidP #28649]

It appears that in Av, Tv, and M modes, you can only use evaluative metering.

In the "idiot modes" like sports, landscape, etc, you can't use exposure compensation, either. Yikes!

The manual is a bit hard to understand, though, about the A, Tv, and M modes. It appears to me that you meter in evaluative, but that once you've half-pressed to lock exposure, the meter reads in partial mode. Note that the actual metering would be done in evaluative mode, though, if I'm reading the manual correctly.

Can anyone explain the real metering diff between 300D and 10D? I'm
now startign to have a hard time justifying $500 for the metering
diff and a plastic body. I don't think the ISO3200 nor the extra
consecutive frames will make much of a difference to me. My problem
is that the lenses I want come over a grand - that $500 would go a
long way towards lenses. After 6 mo of waiting to buy the D10 I'm
finally ready and I can't imagine anything else. Now the 300D comes
along and I"m scared that I'll miss out on something! What will the
extra $ get me for real?

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[mws]

I think pressing the exposure lock button locks in a partial meter setting. The manual could be a bit clearer on that.

Switch to Manual for center-weighted metering.

Not perfect, but not awful, and as for idiot modes, how many idiots did you come across that knew what exposure bracketing was? They're idiots, so don't need that. (Disclaimer: I have been an idiot on many occasions.)

-martin

In the "idiot modes" like sports, landscape, etc, you can't use
exposure compensation, either. Yikes!

The manual is a bit hard to understand, though, about the A, Tv,
and M modes. It appears to me that you meter in evaluative, but
that once you've half-pressed to lock exposure, the meter reads in
partial mode. Note that the actual metering would be done in
evaluative mode, though, if I'm reading the manual correctly.

Can anyone explain the real metering diff between 300D and 10D? I'm
now startign to have a hard time justifying $500 for the metering
diff and a plastic body. I don't think the ISO3200 nor the extra
consecutive frames will make much of a difference to me. My problem
is that the lenses I want come over a grand - that $500 would go a
long way towards lenses. After 6 mo of waiting to buy the D10 I'm
finally ready and I can't imagine anything else. Now the 300D comes
along and I"m scared that I'll miss out on something! What will the
extra $ get me for real?

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and
tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[DavidP #28649]

The manual shows that evaluative metering is automatically selected when you're in Av, Tv, and M modes.

It also shows that partial metering is automatically selected (filled circle) but there's an asterisk next to it . . the asterisk indicates that this metering mode is active after engaging exposure lock.

I can't remember if the camera has a separate exposure lock button. Does it? If not, the only way to lock exposure is half-pressing the shutter button.

If it does have a separate exposure lock button, then perhaps pressing that gives a partial metering lock? But how do you know what the partial meter reading IS? Isn't it (by default) displaying the evaluative meter mode?

Or do you mean that evaluative metering is only availble in manual focusing mode?

I think pressing the exposure lock button locks in a partial meter
setting. The manual could be a bit clearer on that.

Switch to Manual for center-weighted metering.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[DavidP #28649]

In Manual Exposure mode, it uses center-weighted, not evaluative.

It also shows that partial metering is automatically selected
(filled circle) but there's an asterisk next to it . . the asterisk
indicates that this metering mode is active after engaging exposure
lock.

I can't remember if the camera has a separate exposure lock button.
Does it? If not, the only way to lock exposure is half-pressing
the shutter button.

If it does have a separate exposure lock button, then perhaps
pressing that gives a partial metering lock? But how do you know
what the partial meter reading IS? Isn't it (by default)
displaying the evaluative meter mode?

Or do you mean that evaluative metering is only availble in manual
focusing mode?

I think pressing the exposure lock button locks in a partial meter
setting. The manual could be a bit clearer on that.

Switch to Manual for center-weighted metering.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and
tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[Peter Phan]

Yes, pressing the ( ) button activates partial metering and AEL.

It really depends on what kind of shooting you do, what your preferences are, and what kind of photographic experience you've had. Obviously, the 10D is more camera, but it's also more money. Not everyone needs more camera. Others do.

Switch to Manual for center-weighted metering.

Not perfect, but not awful, and as for idiot modes, how many idiots
did you come across that knew what exposure bracketing was? They're
idiots, so don't need that. (Disclaimer: I have been an idiot on
many occasions.)

-martin

In the "idiot modes" like sports, landscape, etc, you can't use
exposure compensation, either. Yikes!

The manual is a bit hard to understand, though, about the A, Tv,
and M modes. It appears to me that you meter in evaluative, but
that once you've half-pressed to lock exposure, the meter reads in
partial mode. Note that the actual metering would be done in
evaluative mode, though, if I'm reading the manual correctly.

Can anyone explain the real metering diff between 300D and 10D? I'm
now startign to have a hard time justifying $500 for the metering
diff and a plastic body. I don't think the ISO3200 nor the extra
consecutive frames will make much of a difference to me. My problem
is that the lenses I want come over a grand - that $500 would go a
long way towards lenses. After 6 mo of waiting to buy the D10 I'm
finally ready and I can't imagine anything else. Now the 300D comes
along and I"m scared that I'll miss out on something! What will the
extra $ get me for real?

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and
tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[Frank B]

I read the manual as saying that in P, AV, and Tv Modes if you half press the shutter button the camera locks focus and exposure and uses Evaluative metering. If you use the AE Lock button first the camera uses Partial metering and does not lock focus until you press the shutter. In M mode if you half press the shutter the camera uses Center Weighted and if you use AE Lock it uses Partial.

Frank B

 

[DavidP #28649]

Had to go read more than just the table to explain it.

If you us AE-lock (using the * button), then the metering is done with partial metering.

Without AE-lock, the metering is done in evaluative in Av, Tv, and in center-weighted for M mode. Confusing! Talk about not ever being able to master metering -- LOL. That would drive me bonkers.

I still can't tell what meter reading you're SEEING through the viewfinder, though, before you've pushed the * button. Assume you're in Av mode. Are you seeing the evaluative metering, or the partial metering, BEFORE you push * ?

Presumably you're seeing evaluative. You might be reading 1/500 sec, push the * button, and then see 1/250 because the metering mode switched on you.

Weird.

I think pressing the exposure lock button locks in a partial meter
setting. The manual could be a bit clearer on that.

Switch to Manual for center-weighted metering.

Not perfect, but not awful, and as for idiot modes, how many idiots
did you come across that knew what exposure bracketing was? They're
idiots, so don't need that. (Disclaimer: I have been an idiot on
many occasions.)

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[DavidP #28649]

After reading more than just the table on page 122, that appears to be correct.

Re-read page 78, though. You engage AE-lock by pressing the . You don't need to press the half-shutter.

It appears to me that evaluative metering is what you get until you press , at which time you're reading partial metering and the exposure is locked.

So, you never get a chance to SEE the partial meter reading until after you've locked it.

I read the manual as saying that in P, AV, and Tv Modes if you half
press the shutter button the camera locks focus and exposure and
uses Evaluative metering. If you use the AE Lock button first the
camera uses Partial metering and does not lock focus until you
press the shutter. In M mode if you half press the shutter the
camera uses Center Weighted and if you use AE Lock it uses Partial.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[Peter Phan]

In M mode, it's center-weighted metering. In P, Av, Tv, it's evaluative metering. But all this is overrided when you press the -AE Lock button. Pressing the -AE Lock button switches the normally center-weighted metering or evaluative metering to partial metering. This partial meter reading is locked for several seconds, or until you take the shot, or until the -AE Lock button is pressed again. In fact, an * symbol shows up in the viewfinder to indicate that an exposure reading has been locked in. And when you press the -AE Lock button, the partial meter reading is taken from the center focus point, regardless of which focus point you have selected for autofocus.

It also shows that partial metering is automatically selected
(filled circle) but there's an asterisk next to it . . the asterisk
indicates that this metering mode is active after engaging exposure
lock.

I can't remember if the camera has a separate exposure lock button.
Does it? If not, the only way to lock exposure is half-pressing
the shutter button.

If it does have a separate exposure lock button, then perhaps
pressing that gives a partial metering lock? But how do you know
what the partial meter reading IS? Isn't it (by default)
displaying the evaluative meter mode?

Or do you mean that evaluative metering is only availble in manual
focusing mode?

I think pressing the exposure lock button locks in a partial meter
setting. The manual could be a bit clearer on that.

Switch to Manual for center-weighted metering.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and
tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[DavidP #28649]

The question I still have (though I think I know the answer) is can you see the partial meter reading BEFORE you press the * button (to lock exposure and also go to partial meterint mode) ?

Or are you stuck viewing the evaluative (center-weighted in M mode), and then you press , and the meter value suddenly changes because of the change in meter mode?

I think that's the latter is the case, and it would drive me bonkers!

In M mode, it's center-weighted metering. In P, Av, Tv, it's
evaluative metering. But all this is overrided when you press the
-AE Lock button. Pressing the -AE Lock button switches the
normally center-weighted metering or evaluative metering to partial
metering. This partial meter reading is locked for several
seconds, or until you take the shot, or until the -AE Lock button
is pressed again. In fact, an * symbol shows up in the viewfinder
to indicate that an exposure reading has been locked in. And when
you press the -AE Lock button, the partial meter reading is taken
from the center focus point, regardless of which focus point you
have selected for autofocus.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[Peter Phan]

I still can't tell what meter reading you're SEEING through the
viewfinder, though, before you've pushed the * button. Assume
you're in Av mode. Are you seeing the evaluative metering, or the
partial metering, BEFORE you push * ?

You are seeing the evaluative metering BEFORE pushing . You are seeing the partial metering AFTER pushing . And to indicate this, there is a * that lights up in the viewfinder. When that * disappears after a few seconds, you are back to evalutative metering.

 

[Peter Phan]

After reading more than just the table on page 122, that appears to
be correct.

Re-read page 78, though. You engage AE-lock by pressing the .
You don't need to press the half-shutter.

The point of this is that you can meter and focus independently of one another. In other words, you can partial meter off of a grey rock in the foreground (by pressing the * button), then focus on white snow-covered mountains in the background (by half pressing the shutter).

 

[DavidP #28649]

Arrgh! So, I think I'm ready to shoot at f/2.8 and 1/200 (via evaluative metering), then I press * and it suddenly jumps to 1/100.

Can you then dial in exposure compensation before the few seconds runs out, and will it "take"?

I really don't understand the point of switching metering modes after you lock in the exposure. It's not like you could really USE the partial metering mode this way.

And I assume that you can still lock exposure by half-pressing the shutter? If so, does it stay in evaluative mode?

You are seeing the evaluative metering BEFORE pushing . You are
seeing the partial metering AFTER pushing . And to indicate this,
there is a * that lights up in the viewfinder. When that *
disappears after a few seconds, you are back to evalutative
metering.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[mark allen]

...after all of you criticisms of the way the 300d meters and focuses your now not even sure of when what metering modes are available where and if it has a meter lock button?

I'll spell it out in easy to understand wording, OK?

in AV, TV and P it uses Evaluative Until you press the button marked with an ' ' then you get Partial and Meter Lock. Which kind of makes sense 'cos if you meter lock in Evaluative you don't really know where the camera is metering from do you?

When the * button is pressed you see the meter reading change if the subject brightness in the Partial area is different to the overall brightness measured by the Evaluative metering mode.

Now maybe you should go and play with a Rebel Ti and see the difference for yourself, it really does work in practice, just like a bumble bee really can fly.

This is my first aggressive post in nearly 2 years but I'm sick and tired of this continual bashing of a camera that you have not yet had the opportunity to try and have no intention of buying. I've seen your posts about informing newbies but what are you really concerned about?

This camera is aimed at people like myself, who are happy with their prosumer cameras, I currently have a Fuji S602, but want more rather than trying to steal potential 1D/1DS customers.

Even with it's focussing limitations, it is still going to focus better in low light and give cleaner images than I/we currently get.

As far as the lens is concerned obviously it's not upto the standard of more expensive lenses, but who expects it to be? you are expecting everyone to be as critical as you, but I have one customer who mainly views his 10D images on a TV, and probably 90% of the people that I sell cameras to never print bigger than 7"x5", are these people really going to see the limitations of the 18-55?

--
regards, Mark: )

http://mallen.instantlogic.com/

I believe I have no prejudices whatsoever. All I need to know is that a man is a member of the human race. That's bad enough for me. -Mark Twain

 

[Peter Phan]

Or are you stuck viewing the evaluative (center-weighted in M
mode), and then you press , and the meter value suddenly changes
because of the change in meter mode?

I think that's the latter is the case, and it would drive me bonkers!

Yes, that is the case. And why would it drive you bonkers. Why do you need to see a measurement before you take it? Take the measurement, and if you don't like it or agree with it, take another measurement off of something else. And if you don't like that one, take yet another. Or switch back to evaluative metering altogether (with a quick toggle of the Mode Dial).

In actual usage, when you partial meter off of something, you know it's going to give you the right value because of its tonal characteristics. So seeing the actual value before you press the * button is really irrelevant. For example, I know that fire-engine red is a perfect mid-tone 18% color to meter off of. Does it matter that I can't see its exact measured metering value until I press the * button? No. I just press the * button, compose, and take the shot.

 

[Peter Phan]

Arrgh! So, I think I'm ready to shoot at f/2.8 and 1/200 (via
evaluative metering), then I press * and it suddenly jumps to 1/100.

Can you then dial in exposure compensation before the few seconds
runs out, and will it "take"?

I really don't understand the point of switching metering modes
after you lock in the exposure. It's not like you could really
USE the partial metering mode this way.

And I assume that you can still lock exposure by half-pressing the
shutter? If so, does it stay in evaluative mode?

I think you need to educate yourself on the techniques and principles of partial/spot metering. I highly recommend you take a look at Charles Campbell's Chromazone Exposure System. It is a metering/exposure technique originally designed for color slide film, and fits perfectly with the exposure characteristics of digital photography:

http://www.photonaturalist.com/chromazone/tutorial_2a.html ,

paying particular attention to the middle example on this page titled "What Are Chromazones" here:
http://www.photonaturalist.com/chromazone/tutorial_2c.html

There's plenty of information here for you to absorb. Once you understand this, you'll have a better understanding of when to use partial metering and how to use partial metering.

 

[DavidP #28649]

No, that doesn't really make sense. What would make more sense (which is what somebody else below though -- incorrectly) would be that the * button switches you to partial, so you can SEE the meter reading in partial mode BEFORE locking it, and then you'd lock it with the shutter button.

Obviously, this would preclude you from being able to exposure lock on one thing, while focus-locking on another, though.

It just seems really strange that the meter mode would change from evaluative to partial just as you're locking exposure.

The only time it would really make sense is if you intended (as somebody said) to meter on something gray (or something where you knew the correct exposure compensation ahead of time) and then focus lock elsewhere.

Maybe for a lot of people that seems quite normal.

For what I do a lot of the time, I actually want to lock the evaluative metering in place (or spot, which 10D and 300D don't have), and then lock focus.

If I intended to lock in partial or spot mode, I'd set the camera to that mode to begin with.

This would all be quite confusing to me (the way the 300D works). For somebody who's only using the 300D, I suppose they'd get used to working in that mode.

But for somebody looking at using the 300D as a second body, I think it'd be quite confusing.

I really expected Canon to be more consistent in their interface across body lines.

I can see why they did this (to make it easy to spot-meter on something like a gray card to set exposure) . . . it's just that it seems rather odd to me.

in AV, TV and P it uses Evaluative Until you press the button
marked with an ' ' then you get Partial and Meter Lock. Which kind
of makes sense 'cos if you meter lock in Evaluative you don't
really know where the camera is metering from do you?

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[Steve110587]

thanks for pushing yourself to respond. My S45 has a similar exposure lock button and it works great !. I imagine the rebel will be similar...
p.s.
it may be 'my wife's S45' not MY S45 once the revews of the rebel come in.

...after all of you criticisms of the way the 300d meters and
focuses your now not even sure of when what metering modes are
available where and if it has a meter lock button?

I'll spell it out in easy to understand wording, OK?

in AV, TV and P it uses Evaluative Until you press the button
marked with an ' ' then you get Partial and Meter Lock. Which kind
of makes sense 'cos if you meter lock in Evaluative you don't
really know where the camera is metering from do you?
When the * button is pressed you see the meter reading change if
the subject brightness in the Partial area is different to the
overall brightness measured by the Evaluative metering mode.
Now maybe you should go and play with a Rebel Ti and see the
difference for yourself, it really does work in practice, just like
a bumble bee really can fly.

This is my first aggressive post in nearly 2 years but I'm sick and
tired of this continual bashing of a camera that you have not yet
had the opportunity to try and have no intention of buying. I've
seen your posts about informing newbies but what are you really
concerned about?
This camera is aimed at people like myself, who are happy with
their prosumer cameras, I currently have a Fuji S602, but want more
rather than trying to steal potential 1D/1DS customers.
Even with it's focussing limitations, it is still going to focus
better in low light and give cleaner images than I/we currently get.

As far as the lens is concerned obviously it's not upto the
standard of more expensive lenses, but who expects it to be? you
are expecting everyone to be as critical as you, but I have one
customer who mainly views his 10D images on a TV, and probably 90%
of the people that I sell cameras to never print bigger than 7"x5",
are these people really going to see the limitations of the 18-55?

--
regards, Mark: )

http://mallen.instantlogic.com/
I believe I have no prejudices whatsoever. All I need to know is
that a man is a member of the human race. That's bad enough for me.
-Mark Twain

 

[DavidP #28649]

For very static subjects, what you suggest is OK. For things with a bit more motion (doesn't have to be sports) it could get a bit cumbersome.

Why would I want to know ahead of time? So I could determine if I should open up more, or go to a higher ISO, etc, to get the shutter speed I want.

If I think my evaluative metering is correct, then locked exposure to see that the shutter speed dropped in half (making a hand-held shot "iffy"), that would bug me. I wouldn't want to find out AFTER I'd just locked exposure, causing me to miss the shot I wanted.

Obviously, that's just something you'd have to get used to with a 300D.

Yes, that is the case. And why would it drive you bonkers. Why do
you need to see a measurement before you take it? Take the
measurement, and if you don't like it or agree with it, take
another measurement off of something else. And if you don't like
that one, take yet another. Or switch back to evaluative metering
altogether (with a quick toggle of the Mode Dial).

In actual usage, when you partial meter off of something, you know
it's going to give you the right value because of its tonal
characteristics. So seeing the actual value before you press the *
button is really irrelevant. For example, I know that fire-engine
red is a perfect mid-tone 18% color to meter off of. Does it
matter that I can't see its exact measured metering value until I
press the * button? No. I just press the * button, compose, and
take the shot.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers