FZ330 early experience – Introduction and Contents

[kkardster]

By the way, it isn't that it gets the focusing wrong but if you try again it gets it right. It gets "stuck" and once it has failed repeated attempts fail. Mostly. But occasionally it flips back again. It is not consistent.

Repeat with FZ200 and 70D?

Without repeating this test, I can say that my FZ200 appears to work the same. There are times when it has a back-focused where it becomes difficult to get it to focus on something in the foreground - even when using the smallest focus size.

And although these cameras usually tend to front-focus on objects, it makes sense that it switches over to back-fousing in this test scenario as the background at some point takes up the majority of the defined focus area. I agree that they tend to favor near the previous focal plane but I always expect that if I change the focus area the camera should suspect that I'm not getting focus where I want it and focusing should begin anew - too bad it doesn't.

--
Bruce
You learn something new every time you press the shutter

 

[spike29]

So i am trying to shorten the WLOHRAI for a wile (Wifes List Of House Repair And Improvement) and you guy's found a new time consuming quest. :-D

So sorry to take a short cut in this thread,

conclusions in a short fly over for BIF:

1 motorzoom or manual Zoom is easy win for Manual : there go's nearly all Bridge out of the top list. (How does a m43 and zoom doe in this test?)

2 wich focus system is best?

Continuens focus pin point? ACF small box?

3 small sensor is not a good thing even with far more zoom possible (shuttertime and resolution)

So primal conclusion: fz200-330 very nice for BOB not for BIF?

Fast Dslr and good zoom still better?

 

[Mikedigi]

By the way, it isn't that it gets the focusing wrong but if you try again it gets it right. It gets "stuck" and once it has failed repeated attempts fail. Mostly. But occasionally it flips back again. It is not consistent.

Hmmmm, low contrast subject, high contrast background - but you would think it would focus on the boundary line between the two.

Yes, I would have thought so. Apparently not though.

You would think that there would be a software intervention that says, "If you focus on the edge of something, focus on the nearer object."

Focus on something nearer first, then swing onto subject?

If you've got time to do that then I think you've got time to half press and check that the focusing is where you want it. No good for BIF of course, e.g. the ones I had trouble with, with the FZ330, of low contrast bird in front of higher contrast background, which the 70D did much better with.

Yes, I didn't mean as a solution, more as a "Why is it doing this?" - can it swing onto a further object but not onto a nearer object.

Quick AF focusses wherever it lands before you start pressing the button, I wonder whether it hooks you onto unintended subjects. But I don't know whether you have got that on or off.

Repeat with FZ200 and 70D?

I have to go and do some useful things now, but yes, I expect so.

Well, might be interesting. I am amused because you are now doing Mike-like tests on toys indoors, a few shots, as against thousands of shots of unreliable birds outdoors.

I am asking about the HS50EXR zoom elsewhere, so far all 2 respondents think that the zoom is mechanical, but no-one seems certain about it so far.

Apparently FUJI dropped that line and the EXR technology and got out of up-market bridge cameras. For reasons I have not yet studied, a 16 MP EXR sensor gives you a "real" 8 MP.

Mike

 

[gardenersassistant]

By the way, it isn't that it gets the focusing wrong but if you try again it gets it right. It gets "stuck" and once it has failed repeated attempts fail. Mostly. But occasionally it flips back again. It is not consistent.

Repeat with FZ200 and 70D?

Without repeating this test, I can say that my FZ200 appears to work the same. There are times when it has a back-focused where it becomes difficult to get it to focus on something in the foreground - even when using the smallest focus size.

Thanks Bruce. That's exactly what I just found when repeating the test with the FZ200, see below.

And although these cameras usually tend to front-focus on objects, it makes sense that it switches over to back-fousing in this test scenario as the background at some point takes up the majority of the defined focus area.

Yes, but ... see the second of the tests below.

I agree that they tend to favor near the previous focal plane but I always expect that if I change the focus area the camera should suspect that I'm not getting focus where I want it and focusing should begin anew - too bad it doesn't.

Very true.

--
Bruce
You learn something new every time you press the shutter

OK, here's an FZ200 test. Pretty much the same setup (slightly different angles and distances).

There are four box sizes on the FZ200. I'll number them 1 to 4, with 1 the smallest.

Test 1

Box size 2. Focus on subject. Fine.



Focus on background.



Move focus box back to subject. Still focuses on the background.

Incidentally, this is showing what the screen looks like after half pressing the shutter button. While the shutter button is half pressed I'm getting green corners and double beep focus confirmation. I'm pretty sure this is/was also the case every time for the FZ330 tests and the following FZ200 test. (I'm rather well attuned to that double beep, because I depend on it for my close-ups, and I do tend to notice if I get a different beep.)



Change to Smallest focus box. Focuses ok on subject.





Test 2

The previous test was full zoom. Less zoom for this one.

Focus box size 1. Focus on subject. Fine.



Move focus box and focus on background. (Box is now size 2, but that is irrelevant.)



Focus box size 3, centred on the subject. Still focusing on background.



Focus box size 2. Still focusing on background.



Focus box size 1. Still focusing on background.The focus box is entirely enclosed by the subject - none of that higher contrast background is within the focus box.

I'm a bit stuck now. Repeated attempts to focus on the subject fail. I got to this point several times. Turning the camera off and on again cures it (!) Sometimes repeated attempts work. Sometimes waving my hand around in front of the lens too close for focusing to work and half pressing the shutter button resets it and it can then focus on the subject when I take my hand away.













--
Nick

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[gardenersassistant]

By the way, it isn't that it gets the focusing wrong but if you try again it gets it right. It gets "stuck" and once it has failed repeated attempts fail. Mostly. But occasionally it flips back again. It is not consistent.

Hmmmm, low contrast subject, high contrast background - but you would think it would focus on the boundary line between the two.

Yes, I would have thought so. Apparently not though.

You would think that there would be a software intervention that says, "If you focus on the edge of something, focus on the nearer object."

Does contrast detect focusing know about distance? I don't think ordinary contrast detect focusing does (like for the FZ200) - I think it works on the amount of contrast (no references, maybe I read it somewhere, maybe I imagined/supposed this). DFD focusing might know about distance. But (see my reply to Bruce), this applies to the FZ200 as well as the FZ330.

Focus on something nearer first, then swing onto subject?

If you've got time to do that then I think you've got time to half press and check that the focusing is where you want it. No good for BIF of course, e.g. the ones I had trouble with, with the FZ330, of low contrast bird in front of higher contrast background, which the 70D did much better with.

Yes, I didn't mean as a solution, more as a "Why is it doing this?" - can it swing onto a further object but not onto a nearer object.

Quick AF focusses wherever it lands before you start pressing the button, I wonder whether it hooks you onto unintended subjects. But I don't know whether you have got that on or off.

Off, for both the FZ330 and now the FZ200 tests.

Repeat with FZ200 and 70D?

I have to go and do some useful things now, but yes, I expect so.

Well, might be interesting. I am amused because you are now doing Mike-like tests on toys indoors, a few shots, as against thousands of shots of unreliable birds outdoors.

I am asking about the HS50EXR zoom elsewhere, so far all 2 respondents think that the zoom is mechanical, but no-one seems certain about it so far.

Apparently FUJI dropped that line and the EXR technology and got out of up-market bridge cameras. For reasons I have not yet studied, a 16 MP EXR sensor gives you a "real" 8 MP.

I read something last night (in Fuji promo material I think) that you can either have 16MP or 8MP for lower noise. I liked the sound of that too. I really do find that a very interesting camera. But they dropped that line. Can't have sold I suppose. Perhaps it didn't work very well.

Mike

 

[gardenersassistant]

So i am trying to shorten the WLOHRAI for a wile (Wifes List Of House Repair And Improvement) and you guy's found a new time consuming quest. :-D

Sorry about that.

So sorry to take a short cut in this thread,

conclusions in a short fly over for BIF:

1 motorzoom or manual Zoom is easy win for Manual : there go's nearly all Bridge out of the top list. (How does a m43 and zoom doe in this test?)

Depends on the camera and lens I imagine. The zoom is ok on my 45-175 (zoom ring, fly by wire I think, but probably fast enough). But the raw buffer is only 7 shots. And worse, the blackout between shots it too long for tracking a subject while shooting.

2 wich focus system is best?

It's tempting to say phase detect, and quite possibly off-sensor phase detect.

(I read somewhere recently that on-sensor phase detect has less ... something or other ... to work with. That made me think again about my enthusiasm for the (as yet non-existent) Nikon 24-500, because its phase detect in on-sensor. Also, regarding the 24-500, I now have doubts about electronic vs optical viewfinders given the huge difference between the FZ330 EVF and the 70D OVF. Other EVFs may be much better of course, but it's making me more cautious about it.)

But given my latest BIF tests I'm not so sure that phase detect is that much better in terms of a combination of speed and accuracy than DFD, or even whether it is any better at all, in the sort of context I was shooting in at least.

Continuens focus pin point? ACF small box?

Not for BIF. You won't (well I can't) get a small box/cross on to the subject reliably enough.

3 small sensor is not a good thing even with far more zoom possible (shuttertime and resolution)

Is there a shutter speed issue to do with sensor size? Don't think so. I think equivalence gives you the same shutter speed for the same DOF and broadly equivalent ISO. For example, f/4, 1/1000 sec, ISO 100 with FZ330 and f/14, 1/1000 sec ISO 1250 for 70D.

Resolution isn't a matter of sensor size (my TZ60 has 18MPix on 1/2.3" vs 16Mpix on my G5 and 20Mpix on my 70D).

But that said, I did get results I liked more with my 70D than with my FZ330. Maybe you are right. Don't really know how much these and other factor played into that.

So primal conclusion: fz200-330 very nice for BOB not for BIF?

BOB? Birds on Branches?

Fast Dslr and good zoom still better?

Not sure. You would think so, but .... "real" birders don't use zooms I think. And I imagine there are still, generally, better telephoto primes for dSLRs than other systems. But for zooms, with DFD for Panasonic, and Olympus have pretty fast focusing now I think, maybe MFT. Don't know. Lots of guesswork here. Take no notice.

 

[Mikedigi]

. . . . . I'm a bit stuck now.

Oh, these naughty FZs.

Five of your minutes on Piglet with the 70D might be enough to send me back to the Ebay ad for the D90 . . . .



Mike

 

[Mikedigi]

. . . . I read something last night (in Fuji promo material I think) that you can either have 16MP or 8MP for lower noise. I liked the sound of that too. I really do find that a very interesting camera. But they dropped that line. Can't have sold I suppose. Perhaps it didn't work very well.

Andy10 on the Fuji Forum has the HS30EXR. He thinks that the EXR concept was a bit confusing for the average punter, but that the HS50EXR was the end of the line because Fuji moved away from the "better bridge camera" market, and that the remaining "S" line of Fuji bridge cameras is very ornery cos Fuji don't care any more.

But there are (HS30EXR and) HS50EXR enthusiasts who like the fast-handling manual zoom and, after navigating through the EXR concept, are happy with its performance with that 24-1000 lens.

Sometimes a camera puts a lot of people off, but a few informed people bond with the points that interest them and are happy ever after. Well, almost . . . . .

Not sure what it would do with your Piglet, he's a slippery so-and-so . . .

What is he sitting on? Seagull guano?

Mike

 

[gardenersassistant]

. . . . I read something last night (in Fuji promo material I think) that you can either have 16MP or 8MP for lower noise. I liked the sound of that too. I really do find that a very interesting camera. But they dropped that line. Can't have sold I suppose. Perhaps it didn't work very well.

Andy10 on the Fuji Forum has the HS30EXR. He thinks that the EXR concept was a bit confusing for the average punter, but that the HS50EXR was the end of the line because Fuji moved away from the "better bridge camera" market, and that the remaining "S" line of Fuji bridge cameras is very ornery cos Fuji don't care any more.

But there are (HS30EXR and) HS50EXR enthusiasts who like the fast-handling manual zoom and, after navigating through the EXR concept, are happy with its performance with that 24-1000 lens.

Sometimes a camera puts a lot of people off, but a few informed people bond with the points that interest them and are happy ever after. Well, almost . . . . .

Makes me wonder about eBay...

(Earlier, by a possibly unhappy coincidence, the Gardener commented "You do have a lot of cameras don't you." (Note the absence of the question mark.) Rather daringly (I thought), I said ("and it's not finished yet"). No comment from the Gardener. That might be a good sign. There again ....)

Not sure what it would do with your Piglet, he's a slippery so-and-so . . .

What is he sitting on? Seagull guano?

Nothing so exotic.

Mind you, talking of guano, one of the very rich people in these parts in the 19th century did make his money out of (South American) Guano. This is the "gothic masterpiece" pad that he built. Just around the corner (ish).

Mike

70D post on its way.

 

[spike29]

So i am trying to shorten the WLOHRAI for a wile (Wifes List Of House Repair And Improvement) and you guy's found a new time consuming quest. :-D

Sorry about that.

So sorry to take a short cut in this thread,

conclusions in a short fly over for BIF:

1 motorzoom or manual Zoom is easy win for Manual : there go's nearly all Bridge out of the top list. (How does a m43 and zoom doe in this test?)

Depends on the camera and lens I imagine. The zoom is ok on my 45-175 (zoom ring, fly by wire I think, but probably fast enough). But the raw buffer is only 7 shots. And worse, the blackout between shots it too long for tracking a subject while shooting.

Is this with every M43? blackout time i mean? 7 shots isn't that bad if the buffer is cleared fast enough for next 7 shots.

2 wich focus system is best?

It's tempting to say phase detect, and quite possibly off-sensor phase detect.

(I read somewhere recently that on-sensor phase detect has less ... something or other ... to work with. That made me think again about my enthusiasm for the (as yet non-existent) Nikon 24-500, because its phase detect in on-sensor. Also, regarding the 24-500, I now have doubts about electronic vs optical viewfinders given the huge difference between the FZ330 EVF and the 70D OVF. Other EVFs may be much better of course, but it's making me more cautious about it.)

But given my latest BIF tests I'm not so sure that phase detect is that much better in terms of a combination of speed and accuracy than DFD, or even whether it is any better at all, in the sort of context I was shooting in at least.

Continuens focus pin point? ACF small box?

Not for BIF. You won't (well I can't) get a small box/cross on to the subject reliably enough.

i think that continus focus, AFC, can get really wrong when sweaping around following a bird. so a bit more selfcontrolled AFF would be better?

i found this explained by Paul Matwiy somewhere else:

AFS -Auto-Focus Single: Focus on subject then shutter 1/2 depressed. Will not refocus if subject moves.

AFF - Auto-Focus Flexible. Will focus on the subject once, then will refocus if the subject moves.

AFC - Auto-Focus Continuous. Continuous Focus with an attempt to anticipate the motion of a moving object.

AFF and AFC are similar, but AFF is more geared towards stills with a time lag on refocusing if the subject moves.

3 small sensor is not a good thing even with far more zoom possible (shuttertime and resolution)

Is there a shutter speed issue to do with sensor size?

Visual seen problems in image by iso rising (pixel/noise) or time rising (blur) when light get less then bright appears faster with small sensor then with a bigger sensor. so freezing a bird sharp is more difficult with a small sensor then a big sensor in afternoon or early morning , most possible times to see the shy birds. But this is just theory from my side.

Don't think so. I think equivalence gives you the same shutter speed for the same DOF and broadly equivalent ISO. For example, f/4, 1/1000 sec, ISO 100 with FZ330 and f/14, 1/1000 sec ISO 1250 for 70D.

Resolution isn't a matter of sensor size (my TZ60 has 18MPix on 1/2.3" vs 16Mpix on my G5 and 20Mpix on my 70D).

No correct, but when cropping to frame the object more filling after wards more pix is preferred i think. (fz200 is 12mp or even 8mp? in izoom. so a 20mp will do better.)

But that said, I did get results I liked more with my 70D than with my FZ330. Maybe you are right. Don't really know how much these and other factor played into that.

So primal conclusion: fz200-330 very nice for BOB not for BIF?

BOB? Birds on Branches?

You nailed it! (not the bird, but the shortword,,,, )

Fast Dslr and good zoom still better?

Not sure. You would think so, but .... "real" birders don't use zooms I think. And I imagine there are still, generally, better telephoto primes for dSLRs than other systems. But for zooms, with DFD for Panasonic, and Olympus have pretty fast focusing now I think, maybe MFT. Don't know. Lots of guesswork here. Take no notice.

--
Nick
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gardenersassistant/collections/
GardenersAssistant Photography Videos - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmBgEwRDfiQMYTPORSzDxvw
https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...-dslr-primes-a-journey-of-exploration.531050/

Yep it will be allways a change and mostly take a lot before get one to keep, and about that hs50exr, i did looked at this camera when searching for a new all in one, there where several things that pointed me towards the fz200.

1 - price.

2 - size/weight (it is a fixed DSLR type of camera)

3 - there where some issues with the sensor lens combination i remember (flaring or something or purple fringing)

4 - poor video quality (i wanted a one body for all and ditch the camcorder)

I really liked the manual zoom and 24-1000mm but i was a bit disapointed about my earlier bought 70 exr compact's IQ so i didnt dare to jump and go did a safe step towards the fz200. (This ticked almost all boxes except maybe a bigger sensor.)

 

[gardenersassistant]

By the way, it isn't that it gets the focusing wrong but if you try again it gets it right. It gets "stuck" and once it has failed repeated attempts fail. Mostly. But occasionally it flips back again. It is not consistent.

Hmmmm, low contrast subject, high contrast background - but you would think it would focus on the boundary line between the two.

Focus on something nearer first, then swing onto subject?

Repeat with FZ200 and 70D?

Mike

Since we are talking about birds in flight (sort of) it makes sense to use phase detect focusing with the 70D. I tried tests somewhat like I did with the FZ330 and FZ200, but couldn't work out a way of letting you see what I saw through the viewfinder. In an attempt to do that I rigged up the 70D's HDMI output to an external screen. Unfortunately this doesn't show what is on the OVF. It only shows what is on the LCD when using live view.

However, it turns out that it looks and acts the same as the OVF if you use the 19 point phase detect approach in live view on the LCD. (It isn't actually the same. For example, it seems to need more light than the OVF version. In live view it must be doing phase detect off the sensor - most of its ("dual pixel") pixels are phase detect capable, and as the mirror is permanently up in live view it can't be using off-sensor phase detect. So it is emulating what happens through the OVF, and its 19 points in live view act very similarly to the 19 points in the OVF. But not quite so sensitive it seems.)

So I photographed what I was seeing on the external screen. (Had I thought about it for a second or two I would have realised that I could have simply disconnected the HDMI output and the LCD would have been live again, and I could have photographed that like I did for the FZ330 and FZ200.)

Here is the setup. Despite appearances in this photo, it wasn't dark yet, and focusing worked fine with the OVF, but not with live view. I had to add some light to the scene. There were three targets at different distances in front of the books in the background - two piglets and a bottle of eyedrops on a steadying stick.



FWIW, and irrelevant as it is, here is the setup on the camera side of things.



The bottle of eyedrops was closest to the camera. If the bottle was anywhere (ish, see below) in the focusing area, which is marked out by the whiteish lines, that is where the camera would focus. Or on the stick, even though the stick was just a little further away. Perhaps because it was brighter? Don't know.



Next, I've moved the camera but the stick is still in the focusing area. It doesn't get picked up though, and the next nearest target is focused on.



Now only the more distant piglet is in the focusing area. That is where the focus falls.



Now the stick is back in the focusing area, and away from the edge. The focus falls on the stick.



The stick is now on the left edge. Like on the right edge it doesn't get picked up. The background is picked up. It looks a bit brighter at that end of the books, but I suspect it focused there because the angle of the bookcase means that it is nearer on the right.



Now the stick is back on the left, a bit further in this time, but it's still not getting picked up. The back of the chair gets picked up instead.



The stick is further in now and it gets picked up.



So, phase detect focusing knows about distance and picks the nearest target that it can make out. This would explain why the 70D does so much better than the FZ330 with subjects that are in front of a high contrast background. It isn't perfect, if the nearest thing is only visible at the edges, but other than that it seems pretty clear what is going on, and is definitely a better deal for birds in flight. IMO.

--
Nick

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[gardenersassistant]

Depends on the camera and lens I imagine. The zoom is ok on my 45-175 (zoom ring, fly by wire I think, but probably fast enough). But the raw buffer is only 7 shots. And worse, the blackout between shots it too long for tracking a subject while shooting.

Is this with every M43? blackout time i mean?

Yes. My G5.

7 shots isn't that bad if the buffer is cleared fast enough for next 7 shots.

12 seconds to clear the buffer.

Continuens focus pin point? ACF small box?

Not for BIF. You won't (well I can't) get a small box/cross on to the subject reliably enough.

i think that continus focus, AFC, can get really wrong when sweaping around following a bird. so a bit more selfcontrolled AFF would be better?

i found this explained by Paul Matwiy somewhere else:

AFS -Auto-Focus Single: Focus on subject then shutter 1/2 depressed. Will not refocus if subject moves.

AFF - Auto-Focus Flexible. Will focus on the subject once, then will refocus if the subject moves.

AFC - Auto-Focus Continuous. Continuous Focus with an attempt to anticipate the motion of a moving object.

AFF and AFC are similar, but AFF is more geared towards stills with a time lag on refocusing if the subject moves.

This is what the FZ330 manual says.

Is there a shutter speed issue to do with sensor size?

Visual seen problems in image by iso rising (pixel/noise) or time rising (blur) when light get less then bright appears faster with small sensor then with a bigger sensor. so freezing a bird sharp is more difficult with a small sensor then a big sensor in afternoon or early morning , most possible times to see the shy birds. But this is just theory from my side.

I imagine the amount of light is generally a constraint for BIF. Even on bright days I found it difficult to get enough DOF with a fast enough shutter speed at a low enough ISO. In such cases equivalence comes into play, as for example described in the next paragraph. The ISO will be rising or the shutter speed falling from different starting points for each format, so I don't think there will be an advantage (on these grounds) for larger sensors.

Don't think so. I think equivalence gives you the same shutter speed for the same DOF and broadly equivalent ISO. For example, f/4, 1/1000 sec, ISO 100 with FZ330 and f/14, 1/1000 sec ISO 1250 for 70D.

Resolution isn't a matter of sensor size (my TZ60 has 18MPix on 1/2.3" vs 16Mpix on my G5 and 20Mpix on my 70D).

No correct, but when cropping to frame the object more filling after wards more pix is preferred i think. (fz200 is 12mp or even 8mp? in izoom. so a 20mp will do better.)

Yes, on the face of it more pixels gives more latitude for cropping. However, not all pixels are equal. I can crop better from the 70D than my TZ60 even though they have a similar number of pixels.

But that said, I did get results I liked more with my 70D than with my FZ330. Maybe you are right. Don't really know how much these and other factor played into that.

So primal conclusion: fz200-330 very nice for BOB not for BIF?

BOB? Birds on Branches?

You nailed it! (not the bird, but the shortword,,,, )

Fast Dslr and good zoom still better?

Not sure. You would think so, but .... "real" birders don't use zooms I think. And I imagine there are still, generally, better telephoto primes for dSLRs than other systems. But for zooms, with DFD for Panasonic, and Olympus have pretty fast focusing now I think, maybe MFT. Don't know. Lots of guesswork here. Take no notice.

Yep it will be allways a change and mostly take a lot before get one to keep, and about that hs50exr, i did looked at this camera when searching for a new all in one, there where several things that pointed me towards the fz200.

1 - price.

2 - size/weight (it is a fixed DSLR type of camera)

3 - there where some issues with the sensor lens combination i remember (flaring or something or purple fringing)

Interesting. I think this is the only one of these four that I would mind about.

4 - poor video quality (i wanted a one body for all and ditch the camcorder)

I really liked the manual zoom and 24-1000mm but i was a bit disapointed about my earlier bought 70 exr compact's IQ

and that is a bit of a worry too.

so i didnt dare to jump and go did a safe step towards the fz200. (This ticked almost all boxes except maybe a bigger sensor.)

--
Nick

gardenersassistant's collections on Flickr

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https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/bridge-mft-achromats-dslr-primes-a-journey-of-exploration.531050/

 

[Mikedigi]

Forgetting for a moment your intention to show us what was on the 70D's LCD, and therefore on the OVF, would you not normally use one-area, central area focus for birds in flight. and probably for most other things? It may just be me, but I have never wanted multiple focus points wandering about in the viewfinder or on the LCD, I have always used one central focus area. I had a vague perception that most people use one central area, and move the camera, not the focus points?

Many thanks for the details of your tests, very thorough as usual.

Mike

 

[gardenersassistant]

Forgetting for a moment your intention to show us what was on the 70D's LCD, and therefore on the OVF, would you not normally use one-area, central area focus for birds in flight. and probably for most other things?

For birds in flight, using the 70D, I use the OVF and (off-sensor) phase detect focusing. There is no one-area version of this. There is one point, and you can choose which point to use, but that is like using the smallest one area focus box with the FZ200 or FZ330. That is too small (for me) for birds in flight. Very often that would miss the target bird.

For birds in flight with the 70D I use all 19 phase detect focus points, which are arranged in a diamondish shape. The coverage is somewhat similar to a largish single focus area on the fZ200 or FZ330, but with the corners lopped off.

For almost everything else I use a single area focusing using the LCD, almost always with the smallest available focus box. I want to choose where the centre of focus is. I don't want that randomised by the camera.

As to moving the camera or moving the focus point, that varies. Usually I move the camera, but there are circumstances with my close-ups where it is better to move the focus box. For example, if I am taking photos of a snail as it moves I typically want to focus repeatedly on a position on the snail which does not fall in the centre of the frame. Using focus and recompose in those circumstances requires a continuous jigging back and forth. With the focus box moved I can smoothly move with the snail. The same applies to tracking ships and small boats on the estuary. It is similar if I am taking repeated shots of a stationary subject where the desired centre of focus is off centre. As I typically capture many shots of each subject with a particular framing this too may be better done by moving the focus box just once rather than moving the camera twice for each shot.

There is a timing issue though. Repositioning the focus box takes time. How quickly is the subject going to move? It needs an awkward set of key presses to move the FZ200 focus box, and it can go wrong and require backing off from the wrong move before trying again. With the FZ330 it is much more direct (the way I have the four-way set up), quicker and less prone to error. Even so I will typically take a shot or three using focus and recompose before risking taking the time to move the focus box.

It may just be me, but I have never wanted multiple focus points wandering about in the viewfinder or on the LCD, I have always used one central focus area. I had a vague perception that most people use one central area, and move the camera, not the focus points?

Many thanks for the details of your tests, very thorough as usual.

Mike

 

[Rodger1943]

For birds in flight, I always make sure that my central focus square is several sizes up from the smallest setting, , , , , , ,

Yes, for any moving targets with the FZ200, I use 1 central AF area and vary the size as desired. The default, fairly small square was best with the Cars test but I would use the next size up, or bigger, for planes or birds in flight.

I can see how Multi-Area might catch a bird or a plane when it is the only thing to focus on, i.e. the background is only sky, but as soon as the bird swoops down with a land background . . . .

Do you use Quick AF (Pre-AF) and AFC? Did you use them when you had the FZ200?

Mike

Hi Mike, Thanks, I don't use the Quick AF on either camera. Main reason is that if I have it on, when I'm walking around the camera is usually pointing down and with that on, it will focus on the ground (ie in close) then when I lift it to take a shot, the camera's focus system has to move from in close to far out and that takes extra time.

 

[Rodger1943]

Hi Nick,

For birds in flight, I always make sure that my central focus square is several sizes up from the smallest setting, that makes it easier to keep the subject in the area of focus. I have tried the multi square setting as well, but the camera rarely focuses on what I want it to using that setting.

Thanks Rodger, I'll try that next.

 

[Mikedigi]

There was some discussion between you and Mike, that I've only just caught up with. You need to use AFC, with 2, or 6 FPS burst mode. You can select 12 FPS, but it will only work in manual focus and AFS. You can just leave the camera on 12 fps, because the camera will automatically select 6 fps as soon as you select AFF or AFC. There is no re-focusing between shots on AFS or 12 FPS. The focus is fixed from the first shot. You're right about the zoom being a bit slow for birds, I use a red dot sight and that way you don't use the viewfinder and you pre-set the zoom.

Thanks Roger, very good. Just an FZ200 question: if I set burst 5.5AF, it does AFC, regardless whether the AF Style is set to AFS, AFF or AFC?

An unrelated question: with my FZ200, a favourite thing is Telemacro, shooting close-ups from 40+" away, often with onboard flash. Is the FZ1000 good at that too?

Mike

 

[Mikedigi]

Thanks, Nick, I had forgotten that OVF only has one central focus area, not being electronic. And the rest of your description is very helpful.

It all reminds me of my set-up for shooting ducks and gulls fighting over bread with my FZ8. My camera set-up was as follows:

1. Wrap up warm in January, find the River Severn, buy a malted medium cob loaf, yesterday's, from the bakery while walking down.

2. Check list: sun, hungry ducks and seagulls.

3. Stand dangerously close to river and throw squeezed lumps of the (healthy) bread at the river, as far as I can. Work the ducks and seagulls up into a "Roman Circus" frenzy.

4. With AFC and burst, throw a lump, focus on it and shoot. Sometimes, shooting might start before the first duck got there. A duck usually won, but seagulls could be decorative.





This became a bit of an addiction.

Maybe around January, I'll see whether I can still do it, with the FZ200.

Mike

 

[Mikedigi]

Hi Mike, Thanks, I don't use the Quick AF on either camera. Main reason is that if I have it on, when I'm walking around the camera is usually pointing down and with that on, it will focus on the ground (ie in close) then when I lift it to take a shot, the camera's focus system has to move from in close to far out and that takes extra time.

Thanks Rodger.

Mike

 

[gardenersassistant]

There was some discussion between you and Mike, that I've only just caught up with. You need to use AFC, with 2, or 6 FPS burst mode.

Thanks Rodger. I took your earlier advice on that. How I got on is described in this post and this post.

You're right about the zoom being a bit slow for birds, I use a red dot sight and that way you don't use the viewfinder and you pre-set the zoom.

Thanks, I wondered about how you (one) would handle zooming when using a red dot sight. Pre-setting the zoom makes sense. Unfortunately the zoom is critical for what I have been doing because the distance of the birds and their size in the frame varies a great deal, including while tracking a particular bird and capturing shots of it as it gets closer to me, perhaps from 50 yards or more down to as little as 10 feet or so sometimes.