five problems with auto-iso and one suggestion

[Shawn67]

"You would probably loath the battery life you would get with this feature."

I'm curious why you think so? The camera is already reading out from the sensor (live view) so it already knows what kind of light there is. I don't see how showing that info would have any significant change in battery life.

Shawn

 

[Shawn67]

I prefer sharp and noisy pictures than blurry pictures which will be deleted. This is obvious for me, not for you. I admit I am really surprised but ok, this is your opinion.Again, it may want to take a risk with a slower shutter speed, I don't want Fuji to make this choice at my place, I had bad surprises with this when I realised Fuji did not respect the min shutter speed. When it happens, it is not very pleasant...

It does, but it respects MAX ISO too and that is the hard limit. Shutter speed is a softer limit. This is my preference for how I want the camera to act and it follows how Auto ISO also works on Nikons.

If you ended up with a shutter lower than you wanted it is because you either didn't set max ISO as high as possible (contrary to your preference for sharp and noisy) or you simply ran out of light.

Shawn

 

[Christof21]

I prefer sharp and noisy pictures than blurry pictures which will be deleted. This is obvious for me, not for you. I admit I am really surprised but ok, this is your opinion.Again, it may want to take a risk with a slower shutter speed, I don't want Fuji to make this choice at my place, I had bad surprises with this when I realised Fuji did not respect the min shutter speed. When it happens, it is not very pleasant...

It does, but it respects MAX ISO too and that is the hard limit. Shutter speed is a softer limit. This is my preference for how I want the camera to act and it follows how Auto ISO also works on Nikons.

If you ended up with a shutter lower than you wanted it is because you either didn't set max ISO as high as possible (contrary to your preference for sharp and noisy) or you simply ran out of light.

Shawn

I set ISO to max. I would expect in this case the camera to underexpose (and to make digital amplification for jpeg).

I know Nikon does it this way too. But ok, we disagree on this, this is a matter of preference.

But even Nikon auto-iso can be improved. I am far to be alone to want my last suggestion, but it could take 10 years before a camera maker understands this.... I have no real doubts though that this would be welcomed by the users.

 

[Shawn67]

"I set ISO to max. I would expect in this case the camera to underexpose (and to make digital amplification for jpeg)."


It already did apply digital amplification, that is part of what ISO is when you crank it way up. If you want your shutter to never go under a set speed use shutter priority with Auto ISO. You will then have underexposed pictures in some situations.

There isn't a combination that will be right for everyone in every situation.

Shawn

 

[Vic Chapman]

I don't understand this one:

• never go below minimum shutter speed

I put it in first because this is really a bad and dangerous choice Fuji made. When max auto-iso is reached, it can select a slower shutter speed. I really think this is not acceptable, there are strong reasons why we set a minimum shutter speed and this rule should never be broken, I have missed some pictures beacause of tis.

You say dangerous and elsewhere - very dangerous. This is not a life and death thing. It's a single file you need to not download or to delete - that is all.

If you don't want the camera to shoot below a certain speed then either fix the ISO as high as necessary or set a higher max in auto - the camera will set as low an ISO as possible. Your choice is either slow shutter and blurry or high ISO and maybe noisy or use flash. Fuji cannot manufacture light for you - I really don't know what you expect Fuji to do. Have I misunderstood your complaint?

 

[Christof21]

I don't understand this one:

• never go below minimum shutter speed

I put it in first because this is really a bad and dangerous choice Fuji made. When max auto-iso is reached, it can select a slower shutter speed. I really think this is not acceptable, there are strong reasons why we set a minimum shutter speed and this rule should never be broken, I have missed some pictures beacause of tis.

You say dangerous and elsewhere - very dangerous. This is not a life and death thing. It's a single file you need to not download or to delete - that is all.

If you don't want the camera to shoot below a certain speed then either fix the ISO as high as necessary or set a higher max in auto - the camera will set as low an ISO as possible. Your choice is either slow shutter and blurry or high ISO and maybe noisy or use flash. Fuji cannot manufacture light for you - I really don't know what you expect Fuji to do. Have I misunderstood your complaint?

 

[Christof21]

"I set ISO to max. I would expect in this case the camera to underexpose (and to make digital amplification for jpeg)."

It already did apply digital amplification, that is part of what ISO

And .. ? Ok but who cares

is when you crank it way up. If you want your shutter to never go under a set speed use shutter priority with Auto ISO. You will then have underexposed pictures in some situations.

There isn't a combination that will be right for everyone in every situation.

If I use auto-iso which is my preferred mode, I must pay attention to the shutter speed and change the mode when it reaches limits, not idea at alll...

You prefer the way it works and you are not alone and I would prefer it works differently and I am not alone.

We just have different opinions and that is fine.

Shawn

 

[Shawn67]

I must pay attention to the shutter speed and change the mode when it reaches limits, not idea at alll...

You just need to change the way you use it. Stop running full auto, set the shutter to the speed you want it (turn the dial) and the camera will do what you want. It will not go below that shutter and it will underexpose when ISO is maxed out.

Understanding how the system works will allow you to accomplish the results you want.

Shawn

 

[Christof21]

I must pay attention to the shutter speed and change the mode when it reaches limits, not idea at alll...

You just need to change the way you use it. Stop running full auto, set the shutter to the speed you want it (turn the dial) and the camera will do what you want. It will not go below that shutter and it will underexpose when ISO is maxed out.

Understanding how the system works will allow you to accomplish the results you want.

What you propose is a workaround, but not as good (for me). Please understand.

Shawn

 

[Clayton1985]

I set ISO to max. I would expect in this case the camera to underexpose (and to make digital amplification for jpeg).

I do not want this behavior at all so an option might be fine or another mode but I'd be none too pleased to have Fuji make this standard behavior.

 

[Christof21]

I set ISO to max. I would expect in this case the camera to underexpose (and to make digital amplification for jpeg).

I do not want this behavior at all so an option might be fine or another mode but I'd be none too pleased to have Fuji make this standard behavior.

Unfortunately, I say this from experience... If you don't pay attention, you may regret it and delete numerous pictures. It happened to me, at least at the beginning and even once recently (I had forgotten about this. ..)

Again, this is fine if we disagree.

 

[Dennis1972]

"I set ISO to max. I would expect in this case the camera to underexpose (and to make digital amplification for jpeg)."

It already did apply digital amplification, that is part of what ISO

And .. ? Ok but who cares

is when you crank it way up. If you want your shutter to never go under a set speed use shutter priority with Auto ISO. You will then have underexposed pictures in some situations.

There isn't a combination that will be right for everyone in every situation.

If I use auto-iso which is my preferred mode, I must pay attention to the shutter speed and change the mode when it reaches limits, not idea at alll...

Well auto ISO isn't a "mode".

You didn't answer my question before, but are you shooting in Aperture priority mode, shutter priority or manual?

Any one of the above 3 mode can be used in combination with auto ISO, and the only mode that will go under your min SS is aperture priority am I correct?

Neither shutter priority or manual with auto ISO would have this issue.

You prefer the way it works and you are not alone and I would prefer it works differently and I am not alone.

We just have different opinions and that is fine.

Shawn

 

[Dennis1972]

I don't understand this one:

• never go below minimum shutter speed

I put it in first because this is really a bad and dangerous choice Fuji made. When max auto-iso is reached, it can select a slower shutter speed. I really think this is not acceptable, there are strong reasons why we set a minimum shutter speed and this rule should never be broken, I have missed some pictures beacause of tis.

You say dangerous and elsewhere - very dangerous. This is not a life and death thing. It's a single file you need to not download or to delete - that is all.

If you don't want the camera to shoot below a certain speed then either fix the ISO as high as necessary or set a higher max in auto - the camera will set as low an ISO as possible. Your choice is either slow shutter and blurry or high ISO and maybe noisy or use flash. Fuji cannot manufacture light for you - I really don't know what you expect Fuji to do. Have I misunderstood your complaint?

--
The sky is full of holes that let the rain get in, the holes are very small - that's why the rain is thin.
Spike Milligan

I prefer sharp and noisy pictures than blurry pictures which will be deleted. This is obvious for me, not for you. I admit I am really surprised but ok, this is your opinion.

Again, it may want to take a risk with a slower shutter speed, I don't want Fuji to make this choice at my place, I had bad surprises with this when I realised Fuji did not respect the min shutter speed. When it happens, it is not very pleasant...

I am not expressing an opinion, I am not saying which I prefer - I am stating a simple fact.

You are not explaining yourself well. What would you have the camera do? You say you prefer sharp but noisy images - then it is up to you to enter a higher max ISO. I say again, the camera cannot increase the amount of light available and it cannot read your mind - and even if it could - just how much automation do you expect? The blurry results you got were due to your incorrect input as to max ISO.

--
The sky is full of holes that let the rain get in, the holes are very small - that's why the rain is thin.
Spike Milligan

Ok, I always set it to max iso. Does it make sense now ?

I would expect the camera to underexpose or apply digital amplification (for jpeg shooters).

I want to go above 6400 if needed. Better than a blurry picture. With a sharp picture, you can apply stronger noise reduction, With a blurry picture, you can't do anything.

I think you misunderstood what people are saying.

What exactly do you mean by "I always set to max ISO"?

What Vic was saying is when your auto iso setting has hit its upper limit (say you have max 6400 set) and is still underexposing you should maybe consider having 12800 instead to give the camera more room to go higher when required.

 

[Cliff Fujii]

Hi,

Recently, there were threads about auto-iso. It is one area where Fuji can really improve and I really hope they will.

Despite these problems, it is my preferred mode. But it could be so much better !

Here is my wish list, in priority order (most important first)

• never go below minimum shutter speed

I think Fuji does this based on the philosophy that it's better to come back with some image than no image. Why do you think that Fuji and all other camera makers offer release priority.

I put it in first because this is really a bad and dangerous choice Fuji made. When max auto-iso is reached, it can select a slower shutter speed. I really think this is not acceptable, there are strong reasons why we set a minimum shutter speed and this rule should never be broken, I have missed some pictures beacause of tis.

• min shutter speed depends on focal length

That's a great feature if they would implement it allowing you to choose the ratio of speed vs FL. For lenses that don't have OIS, I would want to set the minimum shutter speed to be 1/(2 x FL) for action shooting and 1/(1 x FL) for general shooting.

This mode shoud exist because it is really usefull, especially when you use zooms. Sony and Nikon do it very well, why issn't Fuji capable to do it

• display exposure settings in live

You would probably loath the battery life you would get with this feature.

The camera has made all the calculations about the metering, otherwise it would not be able to display a live histogram...

So it has the information but it does not display it.

Wouldn't the very nature of the live histogram be updating constantly? If it didn't, would it still be a live histogram?

Thus would be also a nice improvement. Si far, we have to half press the shutter release to know the exposure settings. It is a waste of time. In fact the camera has all the information because it can display a live histogram. So please Fuji display this information !

• AE-L does not lock the 3 variables

This is unexpected. In manual auto-iso, it does not lock ISO. Not a big deal (in this case you can switch to full manual) but if you don't know this, it is a source of error.

• min shutter speed: no 1/500 limitation

Why this limitation ??. And yes, it can be helpfull in some cases and better than setting the shutter speed.

I have a suggestion to Fuji. It would be nice if they could make these improvements but they can do even better !

There is a recurring demand and no cameras have implemented it yet...

• Allow to set the min shutter speed with the ss dial !!

I hope one day a brand will understand how usefull this would be. In fact, 95% if the tie, I don't want to force a ss. I want to set a minimum shutter speed. The difference with manual + auto-iso is that during a sunny day, it will raise automatically the shutter speed if there is enough light. This si simply better, faster..

 

[Cliff Fujii]

"You would probably loath the battery life you would get with this feature."

I'm curious why you think so? The camera is already reading out from the sensor (live view) so it already knows what kind of light there is. I don't see how showing that info would have any significant change in battery life.

Shawn

During Live View, doesn't the screen get updated IAW the refresh settings in the OS?

 

[FKS]

And this is the problem in a nutshell.

I have no issues with the auto ISO function. If it's too dark and you ignore the indicator in the EVF, that's your problem.

If you don't pay attention, you may regret it and delete numerous pictures.

 

[Christof21]

I don't understand this one:

• never go below minimum shutter speed

I put it in first because this is really a bad and dangerous choice Fuji made. When max auto-iso is reached, it can select a slower shutter speed. I really think this is not acceptable, there are strong reasons why we set a minimum shutter speed and this rule should never be broken, I have missed some pictures beacause of tis.

You say dangerous and elsewhere - very dangerous. This is not a life and death thing. It's a single file you need to not download or to delete - that is all.

If you don't want the camera to shoot below a certain speed then either fix the ISO as high as necessary or set a higher max in auto - the camera will set as low an ISO as possible. Your choice is either slow shutter and blurry or high ISO and maybe noisy or use flash. Fuji cannot manufacture light for you - I really don't know what you expect Fuji to do. Have I misunderstood your complaint?

 

[Dennis1972]

I don't understand this one:

• never go below minimum shutter speed

I put it in first because this is really a bad and dangerous choice Fuji made. When max auto-iso is reached, it can select a slower shutter speed. I really think this is not acceptable, there are strong reasons why we set a minimum shutter speed and this rule should never be broken, I have missed some pictures beacause of tis.

You say dangerous and elsewhere - very dangerous. This is not a life and death thing. It's a single file you need to not download or to delete - that is all.

If you don't want the camera to shoot below a certain speed then either fix the ISO as high as necessary or set a higher max in auto - the camera will set as low an ISO as possible. Your choice is either slow shutter and blurry or high ISO and maybe noisy or use flash. Fuji cannot manufacture light for you - I really don't know what you expect Fuji to do. Have I misunderstood your complaint?

--
The sky is full of holes that let the rain get in, the holes are very small - that's why the rain is thin.
Spike Milligan

I prefer sharp and noisy pictures than blurry pictures which will be deleted. This is obvious for me, not for you. I admit I am really surprised but ok, this is your opinion.

Again, it may want to take a risk with a slower shutter speed, I don't want Fuji to make this choice at my place, I had bad surprises with this when I realised Fuji did not respect the min shutter speed. When it happens, it is not very pleasant...

I am not expressing an opinion, I am not saying which I prefer - I am stating a simple fact.

You are not explaining yourself well. What would you have the camera do? You say you prefer sharp but noisy images - then it is up to you to enter a higher max ISO. I say again, the camera cannot increase the amount of light available and it cannot read your mind - and even if it could - just how much automation do you expect? The blurry results you got were due to your incorrect input as to max ISO.

--
The sky is full of holes that let the rain get in, the holes are very small - that's why the rain is thin.
Spike Milligan

Ok, I always set it to max iso. Does it make sense now ?

I would expect the camera to underexpose or apply digital amplification (for jpeg shooters).

I want to go above 6400 if needed. Better than a blurry picture. With a sharp picture, you can apply stronger noise reduction, With a blurry picture, you can't do anything.

I think you misunderstood what people are saying.

What exactly do you mean by "I always set to max ISO"?

What Vic was saying is when your auto iso setting has hit its upper limit (say you have max 6400 set) and is still underexposing you should maybe consider having 12800 instead to give the camera more room to go higher when required.

6400 is the max with x-e2...

Is it clear now or will you still pretend that I misunderstood what people are saying ?

Well in my defence you never stated what body you use until now....

And if you are constantly hitting the ISO6400 limit may I suggest consider using faster glass and/or upgrade to a body with better ISO performance?

I know my suggestion above might come off snarky, but do you think the image would be usable if it's already at ISO6400 yet still underexposed?

 

[Christof21]

"I set ISO to max. I would expect in this case the camera to underexpose (and to make digital amplification for jpeg)."

It already did apply digital amplification, that is part of what ISO

And .. ? Ok but who cares

is when you crank it way up. If you want your shutter to never go under a set speed use shutter priority with Auto ISO. You will then have underexposed pictures in some situations.

There isn't a combination that will be right for everyone in every situation.

If I use auto-iso which is my preferred mode, I must pay attention to the shutter speed and change the mode when it reaches limits, not idea at alll...

Well auto ISO isn't a "mode".

You didn't answer my question before, but are you shooting in Aperture priority mode, shutter priority or manual?

Aperture priority

Any one of the above 3 mode can be used in combination with auto ISO, and the only mode that will go under your min SS is aperture priority am I correct?

Neither shutter priority or manual with auto ISO would have this issue.

You prefer the way it works and you are not alone and I would prefer it works differently and I am not alone.

We just have different opinions and that is fine.

Shawn

 

[Christof21]

I don't understand this one:

• never go below minimum shutter speed

I put it in first because this is really a bad and dangerous choice Fuji made. When max auto-iso is reached, it can select a slower shutter speed. I really think this is not acceptable, there are strong reasons why we set a minimum shutter speed and this rule should never be broken, I have missed some pictures beacause of tis.

You say dangerous and elsewhere - very dangerous. This is not a life and death thing. It's a single file you need to not download or to delete - that is all.

If you don't want the camera to shoot below a certain speed then either fix the ISO as high as necessary or set a higher max in auto - the camera will set as low an ISO as possible. Your choice is either slow shutter and blurry or high ISO and maybe noisy or use flash. Fuji cannot manufacture light for you - I really don't know what you expect Fuji to do. Have I misunderstood your complaint?