Olympus O-MD EM-5 Mk. II - Live view is not actually "live" when adjusting aperture or shutter?

[tachion]

I just got a O-MD EM-5 Mk. II today and I'm incredibly frustrated.

After doing months of research on mirrorless systems, I was under the impression that what I would see in the EVF and on the rear display would be what I would get when taking the shot.

My friend's Fujifilm XT1 does this... if the shutter speed or aperture is changed (while ISO remains the same) I will see, in real time, the image change. So far, my EM-5 Mk. II, it does not seem to do this more than a couple of stops. I could be in a very dark room in manual mode with the aperture completely closed and shutter speed at 1/8000, and the image in the EVF or rear screen will be quite visible (which obviously should not be the case) and, as expected, when I take the shot it's completely black. I have turned off live view boost thinking that may be the issue, but it has not solved it.

Is there anything I can do to get the live view to be live like it is on my friend's XT1 or is this a limitation on Olympus cameras?

 

[CrisPhoto]

I just got a O-MD EM-5 Mk. II today and I'm incredibly frustrated.

After doing months of research on mirrorless systems, I was under the impression that what I would see in the EVF and on the rear display would be what I would get when taking the shot.

My friend's Fujifilm XT1 does this... if the shutter speed or aperture is changed (while ISO remains the same) I will see, in real time, the image change. So far, my EM-5 Mk. II, it does not seem to do this more than a couple of stops. I could be in a very dark room in manual mode with the aperture completely closed and shutter speed at 1/8000, and the image in the EVF or rear screen will be quite visible (which obviously should not be the case) and, as expected, when I take the shot it's completely black. I have turned off live view boost thinking that may be the issue, but it has not solved it.

Is there anything I can do to get the live view to be live like it is on my friend's XT1 or is this a limitation on Olympus cameras?

It's an interesting question whether this is a "limitation" or a "feature".

I don't understand why you are complaining this hard and why you are "incredibly frustrated":

Within a range of -3 to +3 EV the EVF does exactly what you want. Think about it and take a deep breath: +-3 EV is quite a big range. Outside this range, Olympus decided to freeze the exposure shown because they think that most users would not like to see a completely black or white EVF. A blinking EV indicator, aperture value and ISO value show that you are far outside the normal range.

The only part of your post that I can partly follow is when you are in a completely dark room: here even a -3EV exposed EVF may look quite bright.

I am using Olympus cameras for some years and I like this "limitation" very much.

Christof

 

[Steve2015]

I could be totally wrong here, please feel free to chime in to correct me.

Could live boost be the culprit?

 

[KCK14]

Also make sure Live View Boost is turned off in the Display Menu (Gear D in em-5)

 

[CrisPhoto]

I could be totally wrong here, please feel free to chime in to correct me.

Could live boost be the culprit?

No, he wrote "I have turned off live view boost thinking that may be the issue, but it has not solved it."

Actually he wants a completely black EVF if he dials 1/8000s and f22.

Don't know why, but he wants it that way...

--
OM-D + Sam7.5, PL25, O60, O75
P12-35, O75-300

 

[Steve2015]

Oops, not sure how I missed that, thanks for correcting.

With a completely black EVF, it would make composing a bit hard.

 

[Curtis Khan]

I had this issure as well. Yes I would like a black screen if the resulting image is black. What you see should be what you get if live view is live view. If I want the image "gained up" then allow me to choose live view boost.

 

[Guy Parsons]

I guess this begs the question of why you want a black image?

Usually for best results with digital cameras it is best to stick to a "nice" exposure, exposing to the right and making sure highlights are not blown by using the blinkies feature (Highlight & Shadow) then adjusting the resulting brightness in post process. That way you have used the full range of the sensor and have better data to work with.

Easier to make a bright image dark than it is to recover an image from a black blob, even though the 16MP sensor does remarkably well at times doing that.

Sorry for the lecture but there's lurkers here as well who would be puzzled by this thread.

Regards..... Guy

I just got a O-MD EM-5 Mk. II today and I'm incredibly frustrated.

After doing months of research on mirrorless systems, I was under the impression that what I would see in the EVF and on the rear display would be what I would get when taking the shot.

My friend's Fujifilm XT1 does this... if the shutter speed or aperture is changed (while ISO remains the same) I will see, in real time, the image change. So far, my EM-5 Mk. II, it does not seem to do this more than a couple of stops. I could be in a very dark room in manual mode with the aperture completely closed and shutter speed at 1/8000, and the image in the EVF or rear screen will be quite visible (which obviously should not be the case) and, as expected, when I take the shot it's completely black. I have turned off live view boost thinking that may be the issue, but it has not solved it.

Is there anything I can do to get the live view to be live like it is on my friend's XT1 or is this a limitation on Olympus cameras?

 

[Cane]

If you new what the settings would give you like a photographer, you wouldn't need the cheat sheet.

 

[Curtis Khan]

I can give you a simple example of what can happen and what has happened to me. I am outside where the light is ok...let's say 1/60 @ f4 ISO 800. I switch the camera off. I go into a darker situation knowing that what I see is what I get. This is the case with all the Sony camera and it is what I am familiar with. I power up the camera and see an image. It's not black and doesn't look underexposed so I take the shot. I don't need to check my settings because what you see is what you get. It comes back black. I was misled because what you see is not always what you get. To Sir Cane. You do not know me so do not ass ume that I don't know the rudiments of photography. The EVF spoils you a bit and when implemented properly takes one more thing to think about out of the equation. Truly sorry I am not as great as thee.

Pleb Curtis

 

[Guy Parsons]

I can give you a simple example of what can happen and what has happened to me. I am outside where the light is ok...let's say 1/60 @ f4 ISO 800. I switch the camera off. I go into a darker situation knowing that what I see is what I get. This is the case with all the Sony camera and it is what I am familiar with. I power up the camera and see an image. It's not black and doesn't look underexposed so I take the shot. I don't need to check my settings because what you see is what you get. It comes back black. I was misled because what you see is not always what you get.

Ah, this brings me back to my camera club days teaching beginners.

The previous "experts" had encouraged them to use manual mode - but they were totally frustrated by failures. I taught them to use auto modes sensibly and they became happy bunnies.

In other words, manual mode is for people who like to make mistakes. Sensibly set auto modes make life more predictable.

Regards..... Guy

 

[TN Args]

I just got a O-MD EM-5 Mk. II today and I'm incredibly frustrated.

After doing months of research on mirrorless systems, I was under the impression that what I would see in the EVF and on the rear display would be what I would get when taking the shot.

My friend's Fujifilm XT1 does this... if the shutter speed or aperture is changed (while ISO remains the same) I will see, in real time, the image change. So far, my EM-5 Mk. II, it does not seem to do this more than a couple of stops. I could be in a very dark room in manual mode with the aperture completely closed and shutter speed at 1/8000, and the image in the EVF or rear screen will be quite visible (which obviously should not be the case) and, as expected, when I take the shot it's completely black. I have turned off live view boost thinking that may be the issue, but it has not solved it.

Is there anything I can do to get the live view to be live like it is on my friend's XT1 or is this a limitation on Olympus cameras?

It's a case of "read the manual", I'm afraid. Try page 102 in the CD Manual that comes with the camera.

The M5II has a feature called Live View Boost, which you can turn on or off in each mode. When it is off, you get the WYSIWYG look that you say you want. When it is on, you get a consistent image brightness so it is easy to see detail, so framing and focusing are easy.

The M5II defaults are that Live View Boost is on in M mode and Live View Comp mode, off in P,A,S, and COMP modes. But you can change the defaults.

As for calling it a limitation, every 'limitation' is a feature from a different perspective. Screen won't go completely black? Good! How you going to compose and focus when it's completely black? That's a feature! Want to see how such an odd choice of photo is going to look, on the rare occasion that you want to produce such images? Chimp and review!

 

[TN Args]

I can give you a simple example of what can happen and what has happened to me. I am outside where the light is ok...let's say 1/60 @ f4 ISO 800. I switch the camera off. I go into a darker situation knowing that what I see is what I get. This is the case with all the Sony camera and it is what I am familiar with. I power up the camera and see an image. It's not black and doesn't look underexposed so I take the shot. I don't need to check my settings because what you see is what you get. It comes back black. I was misled because what you see is not always what you get.

Hi see my comment to the OP above. It is simply a case of adjusting the settings on the M5II.

 

[Martin.au]

try the live blinkers. They should serve as a very suitable proxy.

 

[Curtis Khan]

It's a case of "read the manual", I'm afraid. Try page 102 in the CD Manual that comes with the camera.

The M5II has a feature called Live View Boost, which you can turn on or off in each mode. When it is off, you get the WYSIWYG look that you say you want. When it is on, you get a consistent image brightness so it is easy to see detail, so framing and focusing are easy.

--
Arg

I'm afraid you are incorrect. WYSIWYG does not apply when the EV drops below -3 (at least on the E-M10). At that point it gains up. Live view boost is a completely different thing and is absolutely necessary n a studio environment.

I guess it may come down to an unfamiliarity in my case, but can you point me to a situation or example where have it gain up at -3.0EV is a good thing?

 

[Curtis Khan]

Guy,

I agree with you up to a point. With the advent of true WYSIWYG auto modes and understanding how to manipulate exposure compensation makes it a breeze. However, I still like my manual controls since I am in control. WYSIWYG on my Sony Nex 5n brought a new dimension to my photography. With the turn of a dial, in real time you see how light and shadow play on subjects in a way I never was never able to see unless I took a series of bracketed shots. At least this is how it works for me.

Curtis

 

[TN Args]

It's a case of "read the manual", I'm afraid. Try page 102 in the CD Manual that comes with the camera.

The M5II has a feature called Live View Boost, which you can turn on or off in each mode. When it is off, you get the WYSIWYG look that you say you want. When it is on, you get a consistent image brightness so it is easy to see detail, so framing and focusing are easy.

I'm afraid you are incorrect. WYSIWYG does not apply when the EV drops below -3 (at least on the E-M10). At that point it gains up.

This thread is about the M5II, please comment on that camera. And I wasn't talking about the special case of below -3 EV, I was talking about the general case. As long as it shows WYSIWIG between +3 and -3 EV (as indeed it does if you have Live View Boost turned off) then the effect is functional. If the issue is only what happens below -3 EV, then I'll dip out because that is not even an issue, it is a personal preference. Olympus have clearly made a decision that limitations on the dynamic range of EVFs and back screens (especially subject to ambient lighting levels) would have too big an effect on what the photographer sees on the camera, and that operational functionality is best with the screen image pegged at -3 or +3, and you can chimp if you want to see the effect beyond that. I'm comfortable with that, it is sensible.

 

[Martin.au]

It's a case of "read the manual", I'm afraid. Try page 102 in the CD Manual that comes with the camera.

The M5II has a feature called Live View Boost, which you can turn on or off in each mode. When it is off, you get the WYSIWYG look that you say you want. When it is on, you get a consistent image brightness so it is easy to see detail, so framing and focusing are easy.

I'm afraid you are incorrect. WYSIWYG does not apply when the EV drops below -3 (at least on the E-M10). At that point it gains up.

This thread is about the M5II, please comment on that camera. And I wasn't talking about the special case of below -3 EV, I was talking about the general case. As long as it shows WYSIWIG between +3 and -3 EV (as indeed it does if you have Live View Boost turned off) then the effect is functional. If the issue is only what happens below -3 EV, then I'll dip out because that is not even an issue, it is a personal preference. Olympus have clearly made a decision that limitations on the dynamic range of EVFs and back screens (especially subject to ambient lighting levels) would have too big an effect on what the photographer sees on the camera, and that operational functionality is best with the screen image pegged at -3 or +3, and you can chimp if you want to see the effect beyond that. I'm comfortable with that, it is sensible.

 

[Curtis Khan]

"Yes Your Highness Arg. I will comply with your directive as to how I may comment on a thread. However, if you read what the OP said carefully, you'd recognise that...

(" could be in a very dark room in manual mode with the aperture completely closed and shutter speed at 1/8000, and the image in the EVF or rear screen will be quite visible (which obviously should not be the case) and, as expected, when I take the shot it's completely black.")

...his situation is exactly the -3.0 EV scenario. Doesn't matter diddly squat whether it is the E-M5 mark X or the E-M10. Not sure who you are to tell me where to post. I own an Olympus camera and unless I break a forum rule I am entitled to post wherever I please.

If you are comfortable with the way the camera operates, then power to you O Great One. You still haven't shown me a functional reason for Olympus' decision. It does bother me though but the... sorry for mentioning it O-MD-10 is quite a charmer nonetheless.

Bye Sir Arg with a bow.

Pleb Curtis

It's a case of "read the manual", I'm afraid. Try page 102 in the CD Manual that comes with the camera.

The M5II has a feature called Live View Boost, which you can turn on or off in each mode. When it is off, you get the WYSIWYG look that you say you want. When it is on, you get a consistent image brightness so it is easy to see detail, so framing and focusing are easy.

I'm afraid you are incorrect. WYSIWYG does not apply when the EV drops below -3 (at least on the E-M10). At that point it gains up.

This thread is about the M5II, please comment on that camera. And I wasn't talking about the special case of below -3 EV, I was talking about the general case. As long as it shows WYSIWIG between +3 and -3 EV (as indeed it does if you have Live View Boost turned off) then the effect is functional. If the issue is only what happens below -3 EV, then I'll dip out because that is not even an issue, it is a personal preference. Olympus have clearly made a decision that limitations on the dynamic range of EVFs and back screens (especially subject to ambient lighting levels) would have too big an effect on what the photographer sees on the camera, and that operational functionality is best with the screen image pegged at -3 or +3, and you can chimp if you want to see the effect beyond that. I'm comfortable with that, it is sensible.

--
Arg

 

[Curtis Khan]

If that works for you great. I personally have viewfinder clutter except for ISO Shutter speed and Aperture. I also use the grid pattern. By the way, it is an alternative, but you have demonstrated no practical application for the way Olympus has implemented it.

In utmost respect to Sir Arg's decree, I now leave.

And they've given us a decent alternative. Live blinkies, or a histogram on the screen.