what are your thoughts about majoring in photography/Art?

[Toua80]

Worth it? A waste?

A few friends asked me this and I told them it would be a complete waste of time and $$$. Photography/Art can be self taught quite easily. Speaking of waste, I wish I had majored in mechanical engineering or something in the Information Technology field instead of graphic arts. arrgg. A buddy and I both attended the same school. He majored in Network engineering. Yeah, he's probably making well over $60/yr now. :/

My sister is currently a graphic arts major and couldn't talk her out of it. She will regret it later when she's only making $12-13/hr with a BA vs a registered nurse making $20/hr+ out of college.

 

[M43 Dude]

Perhaps the worst photographer I know of in my local area is the head of design at my local university. They won an award once and then they rested on their laurels, a lot of people who have studied under them understand this to be true.

People I know who have studied under them have said they learned more collectively about design principles between themselves than what they ever did learn studying design principles under this particular lecturer.

You can learn a lot about design principles and how to take a good photo in university and the theory behind it, but most of it is irrelevant to what you actually do in terms of practical photography as others have said.

Sometimes lecture theaters are for people who can't make it anywhere else, but not always. There are great lecture theater orators like Feynman who I could listen to for hours despite not having a mind that is built for doing physics.

In the end it might be a case of going to an open day and getting an idea of the type of staff at your local universities, not just one, but all of them in your area and then deciding whether/which school is actually any good in your area and whether its worth your time and money investing in further tertiary study in the Photography/Art.

 

[Montana Floozie]

I received a lot of art education in my formative years, including four years in high school (good luck finding that these days) and further courses in college. And in my working life in rewarded me a lot more than the higher level math or chemistry courses I took. When was the last time you used the Pythagorean theorem?

Art history is definitely worth the while, because talented people for centuries have slaved away at composition, lighting, subject matter and presentation, all of which can be applied to fine photography.

If your sole goal in life is to make a lot of money, sure, you need to look elsewhere. But when I capture an image that I really like, and others like too, I get my own reward.

 

[M43 Dude]

Fibonacci and Pythagoras are interesting and there are others that can be woven in from art theory to what you do, however the lack of knowledge of such theory does not necessarily detract from a persons ability to make an evocative image and it need not be so "mathematical" that we follow such a strict understanding however they can be great learning tools also. I'm not going to debate that.

I received an upbringing in my teenage years under someone who studied design principles at a tertiary level, so I have some idea of what you're talking about. I'm not tertiary trained myself. I don't feel that, is necessarily as big a detractor as some might make it out to be.

At the end of the day, you're going to be judged on a portfolio if you want to get a job in a design studio as much as your knowledge but this need not come from formal training either, though it can be helpful.

We don't necessarily need to know Pythagoras to know that a right angled triangle is the most pleasing shape to the human eye, nor do we need to understand Fibonacci to paint everything by numbers. I'm not discrediting how we got here, I'm just saying there are lots of great artists who never received any formal training at all.

 

[justinwonnacott]

Fine art degrees in photography are not applied arts degrees and woe to the student who mistakes one for the other. Fine art degrees are not training for the business of photography, or even training for the technology of photography. Unfortunately many students do not see the difference until they have been immersed in a program and subsequently become embittered and critical of the education they received because it is not what they thought they were paying for.

An examination of the course descriptions and prospectus in advance goes a long way.

 

[tags]

I'm self taught and I was an english major... which isnt much better if at all. However, I made a transition into a different field (from writing) which will take care of the "real" job so I can shoot on the side. Majoring in art or photography is a total and absolute dedication and it is not a sure money-maker. Most pro photogs have a hard time, and the market is getting harder as the field has expanded since the advent of digital.

Becoming a "pro" photographer is like becoming a pro musician. Most successful people in the field didn't go to professional school to learn their craft.. they just practiced and practiced and made the changes necessary (and the risks too) to earn a living with their passion. Any aspiring professional photographer should have, at the very least, a solid back up career that they actively pursue

 

[buybuybuy]

Well, if you major in photography, you probably won't be able to afford it...unless you hand-grind your glass and hand-crank your lenses.

 

[Bobo Hodls]

Worth it? A waste?

A few friends asked me this and I told them it would be a complete waste of time and $$$. Photography/Art can be self taught quite easily. Speaking of waste, I wish I had majored in mechanical engineering or something in the Information Technology field instead of graphic arts. arrgg. A buddy and I both attended the same school. He majored in Network engineering. Yeah, he's probably making well over $60/yr now. :/

My sister is currently a graphic arts major and couldn't talk her out of it. She will regret it later when she's only making $12-13/hr with a BA vs a registered nurse making $20/hr+ out of college.

The business and marketing aspect of being a photographer/artist is the most significant aspect for making a living at it. I'd imagine the best you can do is to suggest she not ignore that aspect, and hope for the best. If she does what you advise, she might be more miserable than you can imagine, for a long time. OTOH, letting her find her way with loving guidance, she may end up somewhere other than where she intends to go now. And whether she ends up happy or not - it won't be your doing.

I don't know your sister, whether she's a flake or more an artist with any amount of passion. I don't believe I'd want her to attend to me in the hospital if she doesn't want to be there, however.

 

[cplunk]

Or, at least an investment that'll pay any returns....

I took some photography classes at the local college. Would take more if it was more local, and had open enrollment (they might, never checked on that).

But, I have a job as a network engineer. And, I'm not looking for retraining, only to "better" myself, without needing to consider financial gain from it.

 

[More Keepers]

Worth it? A waste?

A few friends asked me this and I told them it would be a complete waste of time and $$$. Photography/Art can be self taught quite easily. Speaking of waste, I wish I had majored in mechanical engineering or something in the Information Technology field instead of graphic arts. arrgg. A buddy and I both attended the same school. He majored in Network engineering. Yeah, he's probably making well over $60/yr now. :/

My sister is currently a graphic arts major and couldn't talk her out of it. She will regret it later when she's only making $12-13/hr with a BA vs a registered nurse making $20/hr+ out of college.

Think about what it costs just for rent, food, clothing and medical. What does it cost to raise kids? Do you want to have money for vacations? How about saving money for retirement. This could be challenging for a typical photographer. The best yes, but on average I doubt it.

Think about some art and photography courses in addition to whatever you need for your profession.

 

[scorrpio]

Put it this way.

A good friend of mine is a psychiatrist at Bellevue. He told me that they get on a regular basis suicidal art majors from NYU who finally realized just how much they messed up. In late 2008 they were getting them almost daily. A surprisingly large percentage of those actually fail to off themselves properly, cause you know, just like education, a proper suicide requires some planning.

 

[M43 Dude]

Put it this way.

A good friend of mine is a psychiatrist at Bellevue. He told me that they get on a regular basis suicidal art majors from NYU who finally realized just how much they messed up. In late 2008 they were getting them almost daily. A surprisingly large percentage of those actually fail to off themselves properly, cause you know, just like education, a proper suicide requires some planning.

Truer words of wisdom will not be spoken as to someone who followed the I'll dream big but come crashing down at 30 mentality. Then it becomes the question of well, flap it, what's next?

Then we pick up the pieces.

It becomes harder in a country like the United States where welfare services are not so gracious to people who find themselves in this spiral. I won't say I've been this far down the garden path, but I will say this.

Follow your dreams and you'll never work another day in your life is the biggest load of horse crap that will ever be spoon fed to anyone sold by parasites who make money off speaking circuits to people who will never likely self actualise the picture that they have in their head for various reasons.

Go where the money is first and then think about dreaming of a different picture, you might find the grass isn't actually greener.

 

[sean000]

Worth it? A waste?

It depends on what you think higher education is all about. Is it a privilege that helps you grow into a well rounded person who is capable of thinking critically and expressing yourself effectively? Is it just training for a specific career? Most colleges and universities try to provide a well rounded curriculum that accomplishes both goals, allowing the student to major in something that interests them or aligns with their goals. Some schools are also good at helpng graduates connect with leaders in an industry or art community.

There is no doubt that some degrees are more marketable (STEM degrees of course). I supervise a couple dozen students at a university. Most are computer science or engineering and industrial design students. Some of these students are courted by well known companies before they graduate. None of them will have trouble finding a good paying job after they graduate, unless they lack the social and communication skills some STEM students struggle to develop. Even that won't keep them from certain jobs. I spend time helping some of them craft readable resumes and cover letters, because some of them never took a class that challenged them to communicate effectively. I'm afraid that's what happens when we de-emphasize liberal arts. Art and humanities teach valuable life lessons. Even in the technology industry I would not have been promoted as many times as I have without the communication skills I learned from my liberal arts classes. My history, writing and communication professors were hard on me. They demanded better writing, supported arguments and more thinking. A good high school teaches these skills, and good college profs push you to hone them.

How many college students end up pursuing a career in their primary area of study? Of course some do follow their major because the opportunities are there and they feel obligated because of their investment (which likely racked up some loan debt). Others end up taking a different path because they can't find jobs in their major or because they hate the jobs they find related to their major. Because of this uncertainty, I think there is worth in any degree, but only for students who apply themselves. What you get out of college is proportional to what you put into it. The students who understand this and work hard will probably be successful regardless of their major.

A few friends asked me this and I told them it would be a complete waste of time and $$$. Photography/Art can be self taught quite easily. Speaking of waste, I wish I had majored in mechanical engineering or something in the Information Technology field instead of graphic arts. arrgg. A buddy and I both attended the same school. He majored in Network engineering. Yeah, he's probably making well over $60/yr now. :/

I don't know if I agree. I know many successful people in the IT industry who were liberal arts majors (like I was) or who never started or finished college. It really isn't very difficult to teach yourself some IT skills thanks to online resources, earn a certificate or two (doesn't always help but never hurts), and get a job in IT.

On the other hand I don't know how easy it is to teach yourself to take great photographs. You can teach yourself how to capture a photo that is technically good, but that won't take you far. Art school, at least a good one, teaches you far more than the technical. This aesthetic side comes easily to some, but it often needs to be honed.

My sister is currently a graphic arts major and couldn't talk her out of it. She will regret it later when she's only making $12-13/hr with a BA vs a registered nurse making $20/hr+ out of college.

Nursing is definitely in demand, but so is graphic design as long as it is supplemented with some IT skills that go beyond using design software. IT departments and companies need some of these skills that computer science majors lack. You need graphic designers to put together good software, web pages, mobile apps and marketing materials. If she is passionate about design, but not nursing, she might have a better shot following her heart. I have a friend who is questioning her decision to become a nurse.

As far as photography goes, it's a tough business. The lack of a degree won't hurt you if you are good, tenacious and you understand how to run a business. A degree in photography will teach you these things, hone your skills, and it might even help you make some connections that lead to valuable opportunities. But it will cost money with no guarantee on a return. If you apply yourself, it should offer some value that is difficult to quantify. Higher education is a privilege that needs to be taken seriously to maximize value. That's why I think many people should work a couple of years between high school and college. Taking a break sure helped me.

Sean

 

[Luke Kaven]

Or, at least an investment that'll pay any returns....

I took some photography classes at the local college. Would take more if it was more local, and had open enrollment (they might, never checked on that).

But, I have a job as a network engineer. And, I'm not looking for retraining, only to "better" myself, without needing to consider financial gain from it.

Investment does not imply expectation of financial gain, but any kind of gain with positive value deemed worthwhile.

OED:

1.2 An act of devoting time, effort, or energy to a particular undertaking with the expectation of a worthwhile result

 

[M43 Dude]

It's the issue where "any kind of gain" becomes inconsequential when any kind of gain sees you with a lot of well rounded knowledge from a Liberal Arts degree and nothing in terms of direct job prospects, this becomes as I said more problematic in societies where there is less room to make mistakes, and to grow and learn from them.

I have an Arts degree and I value what I've learned, but as a direct pathway, majoring in political science and history leads you exactly to a point where you have to consider yourself. Are you actually broadly employable?

If that answer is no... start swimming in the opposite direction as quickly as you can before you flap up the next 5 to 6 years of your life. It can all be fixed, but as you get a little older, not to say I am old, you soon realise these situations are much harder to fix and where ageist related issues start to rare their head when it comes to the employment sector, you start to realise you shouldn't have flapped about in your early to mid 20s and then decided on a major combination like I have.

Get a real job and then consider flapping about and studying the nuances of poli-science, or photography.

 

[Luke Kaven]

It's the issue where "any kind of gain" becomes inconsequential when any kind of gain sees you with a lot of well rounded knowledge from a Liberal Arts degree and nothing in terms of direct job prospects, this becomes as I said more problematic in societies where there is less room to make mistakes, and to grow and learn from them.

I have an Arts degree and I value what I've learned, but as a direct pathway, majoring in political science and history leads you exactly to a point where you have to consider yourself. Are you actually broadly employable?

If that answer is no... start swimming in the opposite direction as quickly as you can before you flap up the next 5 to 6 years of your life. It can all be fixed, but as you get a little older, not to say I am old, you soon realise these situations are much harder to fix and where agist related issues start to rare their head when it comes to the employment sector, you start to realise you shouldn't have flapped about in your early to mid 20s and then decided on a major combination like I have.

One might take that as reasonable life advice, though it doesn't change the definition of the word.

I personally believe in the value of a liberal arts degree in its ability to contribute to just about everything.

I was a computer science major as an undergraduate, but switched to analytical philosophy as a graduate student. Nothing in life ever improved my ability to do computer science better than philosophy, including computer science. To understand this, though, you'd have to already know something about the philosophy of the last 40 years.

 

[M43 Dude]

I've never studied computer science at a tertiary level so I can't comment on how you may think its applicable.

 

[Luke Kaven]

Worth it? A waste?

A few friends asked me this and I told them it would be a complete waste of time and $$$. Photography/Art can be self taught quite easily. Speaking of waste, I wish I had majored in mechanical engineering or something in the Information Technology field instead of graphic arts. arrgg. A buddy and I both attended the same school. He majored in Network engineering. Yeah, he's probably making well over $60/yr now. :/

My sister is currently a graphic arts major and couldn't talk her out of it. She will regret it later when she's only making $12-13/hr with a BA vs a registered nurse making $20/hr+ out of college.

Perhaps tell us a bit about what you want to do and what would constitute a good outcome for you?

Are you seeking to make a career change? Or are you seeking to do something that exemplifies the greatest experiences in life? One is a practical investment, and the other is a long, personal journey.

What kind of photography do you want to do? Do you want to do things like weddings, advertising, and commercial work? Do you want to do photojournalism? What?

There are a lot of ways to learn technical photography for those who are already technically inclined. If you want to learn photography as an artistic pursuit, then photography school to my mind is an expensive race to the middle. I think it is better to learn an artistic pursuit through a broader and more diverse undertaking. Art involves the business of having something meaningful to say about the world. Much harder than it sounds; it's a way of life.

 

[Luke Kaven]

I've never studied computer science at a tertiary level so I can't comment on how you may think its applicable.

Apologies, wasn't sure what you meant by 'tertiary' in this context?

 

[M43 Dude]

I've never studied computer science at a tertiary level so I can't comment on how you may think its applicable.

Apologies, wasn't sure what you meant by 'tertiary' in this context?

Well I understand the ins and outs of computers, pulling them apart, and the trivial sides of things that are the mechanations of what a general purpose network administrator would know, but the other side of it in terms of software engineering and etc at a university level is not well suited to my particular type of brain.

I do well in philosophical areas, but I can't with reason, put together an understanding of how philosophy crosses over into computer science/engineering, because I've never studied that kind of thing and it would probably be something outside of my scope of understanding even if I tried.

Some people can write, other people can do maths/science types degrees, you tend to cross the two over and get a science major to write a liberal arts paper or vice versa and that's where you end up with what would otherwise be termed as hardware incompatibility.

Maybe you know something I don't know, I've never gone down that path beyond the basic mechanization of whats involved in the daily lives of people who are Microsoft certified, Cisco certified or what have you.

That whole other side of what goes on is beyond me.