Sony commited to expanding A-mount

[EinsteinsGhost]

jdm_777 wrote:

How can Alpha A-mount compete in the pro market with that price and design?

The price will come down, as it always does. You can see Canon and Nikon selling their $2500 lenses for $2000 or less, and so will Sony. The more important consideration is, how much better is the version II, and the net changes (we know it is now weather sealed, should have new coatings and has improved AF system, but there may or may not be more to it than that).

 

[Anderton]

sensibill wrote:

Anderton wrote:

Your post, like all your others that are focused only on the equipment you own Sony a57 and Tamron and Minolta lens, makes no sense.

Would it make more sense to you if you owned that camera? He's not talking specifically about the A57. He's talking about A mount. That's what this whole discussion is about.

Sony's product line up and business sense, and respective customers, does not revolve around that thank goodness.

Who claims it should? Nobody.

I do own that camera

Either way he is incorrect again.

http://www.photographyblog.com/news/sony_a_mount_not_dead_but_nex_is/

 

[EinsteinsGhost]

RichV wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

RichV wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

RichV wrote:

One of the bigger problems with this type of camera is that at the longer end of the FL the quality turns to junk. If Sony has solved this, I'd have no problems getting rid of my APS-C bodies and using it exclusively. (Of course, I'd keep my 1D Mk IV for action!)

--
Rich

I am also thinking of an old Cyber shot currently in my camera bag: Sony F828. That lens (28-200mm equiv., f/2-2.8), also a Zeiss Vario-Sonnar, performs beautifully at all focal lengths in terms of sharpness and distortion control for a 7-8x zoom. So, to me, the RX10 is really a revival of the good old F828, albeit with a 4x larger sensor. And today, if F828 has a limitation, that would be the old sensor and RX10 addresses it well with a proven larger sensor.

But, it looks like I will miss manual zoom that I loved about the F828, as the RX10 appears to have taken the Power Zoom route.

While I wouldn't bet completely on it, the following announces manual zoom:

http://gizmodo.com/sony-rx10-a-loaded-long-zoom-camera-thats-sadly-a-bi-1446185961

--
Rich

Thanks! It does look like the focus ring can also double as zoom ring, which is a good thing!

I don't know enough about it: it could be that the front ring is always the zoom, and the rear can be either MF or aperture.

--
Rich

RX100 has MF and Zoom ring shared (I think it also applies to 16-50 PZ), so RX10 may have the same. The rear ring appears to be exclusively aperture ring.

 

[EinsteinsGhost]

123Mike wrote:

sensibill wrote:

RichV wrote:

sensibill wrote:

One G lens does not mean A mount cameras are forthcoming. The guy clearly avoided mentioning any plans for A mount bodies, the same way all Sony reps are, lately.

"We're fully committed to A mount." ...And immediately goes on to say FF E mount will be 'the best' and up-sells the LA-EA4 adapter.

"Let's say you have an A99 or A77. You can adapt it with the EA3 adapter or EA4 adapter. You can turn this camera into an SLT and get everything you get with that camera with this camera."

I don't get any sense from this that they're planning any more A mount bodies.

Brian is certainly a voice for Sony: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52339019

Again, he doesn't say anything different there.

'Not going away' for Sony can mean just about anything.

The new G lens, possibly another lens after that, and adapters. He even said 'you can do everything on an A7 with the LA-EA4 that you can do with an SLT' (which doesn't appear to be true re: IBIS but that's beside the point).

Remember, Sony has a vested interest in keeping people buying A mount for the time being, even if they plan to sunset the system. And they have a history of very slow ends to their product lines.

I very much agree with just about everything you've been saying about all of this. I'm now actually thinking that Sony decided a while ago that the A58 was a last one, as a tool, to bridge the time it takes to push more E-mount and NEX style bodies and lenses, and to keep being able clear out any current A-mount lenses out of the pipeline, like the popular 18-135 one.

I'm ok with all of this, except for that darn IBIS loss plus having to spend money on an adapter, and the ludicrous E-mount lens prices. For like another $500 one can have a third party adapter that lets you use Canon lenses with AF and OS functionality...

It's all just about money isn't it... And lots and lots of it with this new stage. It's one helluva marketing effort at Sony.... I mean good grief. $1700 on an A7. $800 on a single E-mount lens. $300 on an adapter so I can play with my $100 Minolta beercan. Last question would be, are those new cameras not too thin and are they going to fall out of my hand? The A57 I can hang off the tip of my fingers without having to grip even. Looks like the A7 would slip right off my fingers... lol.

If some of you must believe what you want to, that is fine. But Sony isn't foolish enough to build an adapter to sell a $3000 lens for use on E-mount, instead of building one on the native mount.

So, let us assume what the two of you (some of the most vocal ones about the doom and gloom of A-mount) say is true: Sony no longer produces A-mount. Not now, not in 2014 and A58 spells the end of it. Now, Sony is selling $3000 lens to E-mount buyers, for use via adapters? Sony has chosen to develop a new A-mount adapter for a mount they don't want to continue with?

What would be easier? Build a 70-200/2.8 lens for E-mount, or sell the expensive A-mount lens with an adapter to E-mount buyers? And then turn around and build an E-mount version to anger the E-mount buyers?

Do you guys think, besides running around in fear, and hoping for others to join in?

 

[RichV]

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

RichV wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

RichV wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

RichV wrote:

One of the bigger problems with this type of camera is that at the longer end of the FL the quality turns to junk. If Sony has solved this, I'd have no problems getting rid of my APS-C bodies and using it exclusively. (Of course, I'd keep my 1D Mk IV for action!)

 

[EinsteinsGhost]

RichV wrote:

artlmntl wrote:

Photography Blog cites the Sony announcements in London. Seems a spot of good news to me. Should be interesting to see what Sony cooks up.

http://www.photographyblog.com/news/sony_a_mount_not_dead_but_nex_is/

To me it's Sony's way of shifting the mindset. NEX has a much better reputation and acceptance level in some circles than does Alpha, so in the future people will only refer to Alpha.

 

[jdm_777]

Price goes up more than down.

http://www.photoprice.ca/product/00261/Sony-SAL70200G-70-200mm-F2.8-G-for-Alpha-price.html

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

jdm_777 wrote:

How can Alpha A-mount compete in the pro market with that price and design?

The price will come down, as it always does. You can see Canon and Nikon selling their $2500 lenses for $2000 or less, and so will Sony. The more important consideration is, how much better is the version II, and the net changes (we know it is now weather sealed, should have new coatings and has improved AF system, but there may or may not be more to it than that).

 

[billzilla2000]

Anderton wrote:

sensibill wrote:

Anderton wrote:

Your post, like all your others that are focused only on the equipment you own Sony a57 and Tamron and Minolta lens, makes no sense.

Would it make more sense to you if you owned that camera? He's not talking specifically about the A57. He's talking about A mount. That's what this whole discussion is about.

Sony's product line up and business sense, and respective customers, does not revolve around that thank goodness.

Who claims it should? Nobody.

I do own that camera

Either way he is incorrect again.

http://www.photographyblog.com/news/sony_a_mount_not_dead_but_nex_is/

I believe most still believe there may be an A mount FF camera successor or intermediate to the A99, but what most of us are wondering right now is - more SLT or mirrorless A mount crop sensor? That's the big question.

I don't see how you or anyone else has 'proven' Mike123 'incorrect' just yet.

 

[RichV]

sensibill wrote:

Anderton wrote:

sensibill wrote:

Anderton wrote:

Your post, like all your others that are focused only on the equipment you own Sony a57 and Tamron and Minolta lens, makes no sense.

Would it make more sense to you if you owned that camera? He's not talking specifically about the A57. He's talking about A mount. That's what this whole discussion is about.

Sony's product line up and business sense, and respective customers, does not revolve around that thank goodness.

Who claims it should? Nobody.

I do own that camera

Either way he is incorrect again.

http://www.photographyblog.com/news/sony_a_mount_not_dead_but_nex_is/

I believe most still believe there may be an A mount FF camera successor or intermediate to the A99, but what most of us are wondering right now is - more SLT or mirrorless A mount crop sensor? That's the big question.

I don't see how you or anyone else has 'proven' Mike123 'incorrect' just yet.

Has Mike123 (or anyone else) proven himself correct?

 

[123Mike]

If some of you must believe what you want to, that is fine. But Sony isn't foolish enough to build an adapter to sell a $3000 lens for use on E-mount, instead of building one on the native mount.

So, let us assume what the two of you (some of the most vocal ones about the doom and gloom of A-mount) say is true: Sony no longer produces A-mount. Not now, not in 2014 and A58 spells the end of it. Now, Sony is selling $3000 lens to E-mount buyers, for use via adapters? Sony has chosen to develop a new A-mount adapter for a mount they don't want to continue with?

What would be easier? Build a 70-200/2.8 lens for E-mount, or sell the expensive A-mount lens with an adapter to E-mount buyers? And then turn around and build an E-mount version to anger the E-mount buyers?

Do you guys think, besides running around in fear, and hoping for others to join in?

The A99 isn't done yet. The G2 lens was probably already in the pipeline, just delayed because of resources being pulled to E mount related development.

It seems all perfectly predictable to me.

 

[Anderton]

RichV wrote:

sensibill wrote:

Anderton wrote:

sensibill wrote:

Anderton wrote:

Your post, like all your others that are focused only on the equipment you own Sony a57 and Tamron and Minolta lens, makes no sense.

Would it make more sense to you if you owned that camera? He's not talking specifically about the A57. He's talking about A mount. That's what this whole discussion is about.

Sony's product line up and business sense, and respective customers, does not revolve around that thank goodness.

Who claims it should? Nobody.

I do own that camera

Either way he is incorrect again.

http://www.photographyblog.com/news/sony_a_mount_not_dead_but_nex_is/

I believe most still believe there may be an A mount FF camera successor or intermediate to the A99, but what most of us are wondering right now is - more SLT or mirrorless A mount crop sensor? That's the big question.

I don't see how you or anyone else has 'proven' Mike123 'incorrect' just yet.

Has Mike123 (or anyone else) proven himself correct?

 

[123Mike]

RichV wrote:

sensibill wrote:

Anderton wrote:

sensibill wrote:

Anderton wrote:

Your post, like all your others that are focused only on the equipment you own Sony a57 and Tamron and Minolta lens, makes no sense.

Would it make more sense to you if you owned that camera? He's not talking specifically about the A57. He's talking about A mount. That's what this whole discussion is about.

Sony's product line up and business sense, and respective customers, does not revolve around that thank goodness.

Who claims it should? Nobody.

I do own that camera

Either way he is incorrect again.

http://www.photographyblog.com/news/sony_a_mount_not_dead_but_nex_is/

I believe most still believe there may be an A mount FF camera successor or intermediate to the A99, but what most of us are wondering right now is - more SLT or mirrorless A mount crop sensor? That's the big question.

I don't see how you or anyone else has 'proven' Mike123 'incorrect' just yet.

Has Mike123 (or anyone else) proven himself correct?

We could take a more agnostic approach. Neither of us can prove the existence or non-existence for future A-mount cameras. But evidence isn't showing it's very plausible.

 

[EinsteinsGhost]

123Mike wrote:

If some of you must believe what you want to, that is fine. But Sony isn't foolish enough to build an adapter to sell a $3000 lens for use on E-mount, instead of building one on the native mount.

So, let us assume what the two of you (some of the most vocal ones about the doom and gloom of A-mount) say is true: Sony no longer produces A-mount. Not now, not in 2014 and A58 spells the end of it. Now, Sony is selling $3000 lens to E-mount buyers, for use via adapters? Sony has chosen to develop a new A-mount adapter for a mount they don't want to continue with?

What would be easier? Build a 70-200/2.8 lens for E-mount, or sell the expensive A-mount lens with an adapter to E-mount buyers? And then turn around and build an E-mount version to anger the E-mount buyers?

Do you guys think, besides running around in fear, and hoping for others to join in?

The A99 isn't done yet. The G2 lens was probably already in the pipeline, just delayed because of resources being pulled to E mount related development.

It seems all perfectly predictable to me.

That isn't how business trying to build and expand a base, work. Sony cannot afford to play with its reputation of selling an expensive lens (and a new adapter) only to pull the plug in a few months based on the excuse that "the development was already in the pipeline".

Do you also believe that Sony's decision to build A7/A7r, or expanding E-mount into FF wasn't in the pipeline around the same time? Or, that they decided on this just a 3-4 months ago?

 

[EinsteinsGhost]

jdm_777 wrote:

Price goes up more than down.

http://www.photoprice.ca/product/00261/Sony-SAL70200G-70-200mm-F2.8-G-for-Alpha-price.html

Not really. If $3K is too much, it will come down. The competition (Canon and Nikon) aren't selling their lenses at MSRP either, much less above it.

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

jdm_777 wrote:

How can Alpha A-mount compete in the pro market with that price and design?

The price will come down, as it always does. You can see Canon and Nikon selling their $2500 lenses for $2000 or less, and so will Sony. The more important consideration is, how much better is the version II, and the net changes (we know it is now weather sealed, should have new coatings and has improved AF system, but there may or may not be more to it than that).

 

[RichV]

123Mike wrote:

RichV wrote:

sensibill wrote:

Anderton wrote:

sensibill wrote:

Anderton wrote:

Your post, like all your others that are focused only on the equipment you own Sony a57 and Tamron and Minolta lens, makes no sense.

Would it make more sense to you if you owned that camera? He's not talking specifically about the A57. He's talking about A mount. That's what this whole discussion is about.

Sony's product line up and business sense, and respective customers, does not revolve around that thank goodness.

Who claims it should? Nobody.

I do own that camera

Either way he is incorrect again.

http://www.photographyblog.com/news/sony_a_mount_not_dead_but_nex_is/

I believe most still believe there may be an A mount FF camera successor or intermediate to the A99, but what most of us are wondering right now is - more SLT or mirrorless A mount crop sensor? That's the big question.

I don't see how you or anyone else has 'proven' Mike123 'incorrect' just yet.

Has Mike123 (or anyone else) proven himself correct?

We could take a more agnostic approach. Neither of us can prove the existence or non-existence for future A-mount cameras. But evidence isn't showing it's very plausible.

I would posit that "evidence" is showing what you want to see. I'm probably going out to shoot with my doomed equipment.

 

[artlmntl]

123Mike wrote:

We could take a more agnostic approach. Neither of us can prove the existence or non-existence for future A-mount cameras. But evidence isn't showing it's very plausible.

Evidence is showing we're going to get one or more A-mount bodies next year. The camera(s) will not be cheap, though. The truth is, you should probably grab an extra A57 body and continue to enjoy your lenses. I should do that, too; but I'm too busy looking lustfully at something bigger in most every dimension. My wife does not approve D:

At least the discussion's not boring!

 

[billzilla2000]

RichV wrote:

There's no clear answer, but I'd put my best guess on new A-mount bodies next year.

What I'm most concerned about is whether any subsequent A mount bodies will be sub-$2000 crop sensor models.

"Two months ago I gave you a shock by telling you that Sony canceled the planed A-mount camera releases for 2013. This means not entry level FF, not high end FF and not A77 successor will come within the next 6 months. The reason why Sony dropped them is that the new CEO wants to really challenge the Canon-Nikon dominance in the only profitable pro camera market. And to achieve that goal the new cameras have to be not just a small upgrade but a real new big step forward over the predecessors. I am now working on the new A-mount roadmap. And I got some reliable info about the new Full Frame strategy:

1) Two new A-mount Full Frame cameras coming in 2014
2) There is a third A-mount Full Frame camera planed but it may be released in early 2015.
3) All new Full Frame cameras will be mirrorless (this means DSLR shape, A-mount, but no SLT mirror).
4) Both cameras will use a new generation 30+ MP sensor (yes, I said new and not the same of the Nikon D800…it’s better!)."

Which is the worst news I've heard in this entire exchange. I'd say this confirms what many have suspected - no more entry to mid level A mount products.

This tells me Sony views non-FF APS-C A mount as pointless and dead. Any new A mount will be expensive FF, thus abandoning the entire Consumer/Prosumer grade A mount market: A77, A65, A57, A58, A37. SLT, SLR - gone.

We've seen this pattern before - push the format into exclusive niche markets to cater to the fringe and still claim 'support' and go with something new and easy for the mainstream.

 

[billzilla2000]

RichV wrote:

sensibill wrote:

Anderton wrote:

sensibill wrote:

Anderton wrote:

Your post, like all your others that are focused only on the equipment you own Sony a57 and Tamron and Minolta lens, makes no sense.

Would it make more sense to you if you owned that camera? He's not talking specifically about the A57. He's talking about A mount. That's what this whole discussion is about.

Sony's product line up and business sense, and respective customers, does not revolve around that thank goodness.

Who claims it should? Nobody.

I do own that camera

Either way he is incorrect again.

http://www.photographyblog.com/news/sony_a_mount_not_dead_but_nex_is/

I believe most still believe there may be an A mount FF camera successor or intermediate to the A99, but what most of us are wondering right now is - more SLT or mirrorless A mount crop sensor? That's the big question.

I don't see how you or anyone else has 'proven' Mike123 'incorrect' just yet.

Has Mike123 (or anyone else) proven himself correct?

That's part of my point. There's no proof of anything yet. He's speculating. Posting his view of where he thinks things are going, just like everyone else. Perhaps a bit more dire than some agree with, but I don't see why he (or I, or anyone else doubtful of A mount crop body future) should be subjected to all the ire and fanboy angst you see going on right now - present company refreshingly excepted, of course.

 

[billzilla2000]

Anderton wrote:

RichV wrote:

sensibill wrote:

Anderton wrote:

sensibill wrote:

Anderton wrote:

Your post, like all your others that are focused only on the equipment you own Sony a57 and Tamron and Minolta lens, makes no sense.

Would it make more sense to you if you owned that camera? He's not talking specifically about the A57. He's talking about A mount. That's what this whole discussion is about.

Sony's product line up and business sense, and respective customers, does not revolve around that thank goodness.

Who claims it should? Nobody.

I do own that camera

Either way he is incorrect again.

http://www.photographyblog.com/news/sony_a_mount_not_dead_but_nex_is/

I believe most still believe there may be an A mount FF camera successor or intermediate to the A99, but what most of us are wondering right now is - more SLT or mirrorless A mount crop sensor? That's the big question.

I don't see how you or anyone else has 'proven' Mike123 'incorrect' just yet.

Has Mike123 (or anyone else) proven himself correct?

--
Rich

In their own opinions, yes lol

So many Sony naysayers ...

When the a3000 comes out "the A-mount is gone!"

When the A7 comes out and the NEX branding is removed "the NEX is gone!"

These posters are hilarious

So where is news of consumer level A mount APS-C bodies?

I don't find it hilarious, at all. As Rich pointed out - Sony's new boss killed SLT and has relegated A mount to high end FF. What else is there to take from this?

"Two months ago I gave you a shock by telling you that Sony canceled the planed A-mount camera releases for 2013. This means not entry level FF, not high end FF and not A77 successor will come within the next 6 months. The reason why Sony dropped them is that the new CEO wants to really challenge the Canon-Nikon dominance in the only profitable pro camera market. And to achieve that goal the new cameras have to be not just a small upgrade but a real new big step forward over the predecessors. I am now working on the new A-mount roadmap. And I got some reliable info about the new Full Frame strategy:

1) Two new A-mount Full Frame cameras coming in 2014
2) There is a third A-mount Full Frame camera planed but it may be released in early 2015.
3) All new Full Frame cameras will be mirrorless (this means DSLR shape, A-mount, but no SLT mirror).
4) Both cameras will use a new generation 30+ MP sensor (yes, I said new and not the same of the Nikon D800…it’s better!)."

 

[billzilla2000]

RichV wrote:

123Mike wrote:

That A57 and A77 firmware upgrade never came for instance....

I hadn't heard about those, but regardless it feels pretty clear to me that Sony doesn't want to impinge on their A-mount FF plans (I also tend to look at the overall reliability of the bigger rumors that I hear; for Sony, firmware's a small issue in most cases unless the Press is harping on something). I don't have a sure feeling about APS-C, but if the new person in charge wants to take it to the competition in a much stronger way, FF A-mount would be the way to go.

So just abandon all A mount APS-C models, as they have apparently done?

I don't think that's taking it to the competition at all. The SLT model line being killed with no mirrorless A mount consumer level models to replace them will not endear many current owners to Sony.

(And as Canon and Nikon do, they could then trickle the tech downward.) With E-mount and A-mount I see two distinct markets: compact and full-sized. I'd think it would be "mildly suicidal" for Sony to talk about future A-mount directions now

I don't see why, unless they don't want to alienate people by admitting there will be no more sub-Pro level A mount cameras.