Will ZLR's be in or out??

[ADW]

I'm a novice photographer, with at least three years' worth of training to do before I can even think of creating great compositional work. Obviously, a camera like the E-20 would be perfect for beginners like myself. But the E-20 does have some drawbacks, and at this late date I'm wondering if I should wait to see if Olympus is going to release a superior model in a few months, or devote itself exclusively to its upcoming SLR 4/3 line.

For myself, it makes no sense to invest heavily into digital SLR, and film cameras cost too much for film and processing. Can anyone tell me, then, what rumors they might have heard on a possible future ZLR camera from Olympus? Thanks for all advice.

 

[Ian Yates]

There will be an announcement on the new camera!

--
Ian Yates

 

[Barry Weber]

It depends what you want to spend and how soon you want the camera in your hands.

If the new cameras aren't relased till fall or early winter, that could leave with a whole summer with no camera in your hands. Remember this is all about the images you can create, not what model number the tool is. The quality of images from the E20 are excellent. I wish it wrote faster, I wish it autofocused in very dark areas such as the nightclub I work with. Outside of that, the final images are excellent quality.

Why not buy the E20 now, cut your teeth on it and learn what you want to see in the next camera you'll buy. You can always get some part of your investment back by selling it.

Cameras are like a paint brush, they do very different things depending upon the hands that wield them. I've seen great photographs from really basic cameras and I've seen pathetic images on incredible cameras...meaning much of it is in the artist. If you're psyched to get shooting now, buy something now. Embrace it, use it, hone your skills and then when you feel the need for a new tool, you'll know what you want to be using.

There will always be something new coming out real soon that is rumored to be the greatest camera ever designed.

 

[OldDigiman]

I expect the new cameras will be in the $4000 range with the wide zoom. Consider, the Canon 10D is considered a prosumer slr and will set you back $2000 with a decent lens. A 1D body is around $4000. Oly has said the first 3/4 slr will be aimed at the pro market with a consumer version to follow. So I expect that you will be looking at quite a lot of change more than you can get an E-20 for, let alone an E-10.

It depends what you want to spend and how soon you want the camera
in your hands.

If the new cameras aren't relased till fall or early winter, that
could leave with a whole summer with no camera in your hands.
Remember this is all about the images you can create, not what
model number the tool is. The quality of images from the E20 are
excellent. I wish it wrote faster, I wish it autofocused in very
dark areas such as the nightclub I work with. Outside of that, the
final images are excellent quality.

Why not buy the E20 now, cut your teeth on it and learn what you
want to see in the next camera you'll buy. You can always get some
part of your investment back by selling it.

Cameras are like a paint brush, they do very different things
depending upon the hands that wield them. I've seen great
photographs from really basic cameras and I've seen pathetic images
on incredible cameras...meaning much of it is in the artist. If
you're psyched to get shooting now, buy something now. Embrace it,
use it, hone your skills and then when you feel the need for a new
tool, you'll know what you want to be using.

There will always be something new coming out real soon that is
rumored to be the greatest camera ever designed.

 

[GageFX133521]

I believe Olympus pioneered the ZLR so it's hard to imagine they would abandon it. That's one reason I was so surprised to hear about the interchangable lens 4/3 when an E-xx successor never arrived. I think there is a huge market for it (witness the multitudes that have bought and rebought the E-xx). I, for one, would much prefer a ZLR to an interchangable lens system and that is the biggest reason I switched to Canon. If Oly fixed the problems with the E-xx and offered a larger file size camera ZLR I would have been all over it. BUt if I have to buy into a syatem, Canon is the best in my opinion. So, I find it hard to believe they wont continue with the ZLR, but maybe they will drop whatever ZLR comes next to the level of the Sony and Minolta.

-GageFX

 

[Howard]

Howard,

As one who has used Olympus ZLR 35mm and digital cameras for many years, I honestly do not believe this type of camera will be extinct anytime soon and expect Olympus and others to continue making them. This type of camera is very nice to have from a convenience standpoint in the field when you want to take one piece of equipment and nothing else.

In fact, the only thing I don't like about the E20 is the size. That is why I recently added a Minolta Dimage 7Hi to my camera bag. The pictures are just as good in the Extra Fine JPEG mode and the camera is approximately 50% the size of the E20. And it is a ZLR design with a 28-200 35mm equivalent lens.

Howard

I'm a novice photographer, with at least three years' worth of
training to do before I can even think of creating great
compositional work. Obviously, a camera like the E-20 would be
perfect for beginners like myself. But the E-20 does have some
drawbacks, and at this late date I'm wondering if I should wait to
see if Olympus is going to release a superior model in a few
months, or devote itself exclusively to its upcoming SLR 4/3 line.

For myself, it makes no sense to invest heavily into digital SLR,
and film cameras cost too much for film and processing. Can anyone
tell me, then, what rumors they might have heard on a possible
future ZLR camera from Olympus? Thanks for all advice.

 

[Ian Yates]

and it has a 2/3 CCD not the tiny noizy 1/1.8"
--
Ian Yates

 

[Sunny Krpan]

Whose noizy tiny 1/1.8" CCd you are talking about? BTW You are in Oly slr forum

and it has a 2/3 CCD not the tiny noizy 1/1.8"
--
Ian Yates

--
All Best!
Sunny
----------
E-10 I'm too stupid to say something wise....

 

[ADW]

I appreciate the advice that all of you have given me. I'm going to proceed in my purchase plan for a digital camera on the assumption that companies such as Olympus, Nikon and Minolta are going to continue producing ZLR models.

After buying a new, grpahics-powerful DELL computer, an Epson 960 printer and a ViewSonic flat-panel monitor, I will be waiting until mid-June to begin looking seriously at digital cameras. That's when my 90-day probation will be completed on my new retirement job. My purpose in asking the headline question is because I have doubts that even the best of the current-generation ZLRs is adequate in taking a novice to high-end compositional training.

Of the two cameras that I've most closely considered--the Nikon 5700 and the Oly E-20--there appear to be serious output or build quality issues. The Nikon beats the E-20 all across the board in terms of raw resolution and photographic capabilities. The E-20 runs circles around the Nikon so far as build quality, and has a true TTL viewfinder. These are just the major issues for me; I need not tell you each camera's abilities and limitations as they are well known.

As I am not therefore interested in either camera, what will I have to look forward to within the next year? I am going to guess that Nikon and Olympus will both release new models by November, but what can we expect? I will be most interested in the Olympus release, as I was very impressed with the E-20, a camera that fell just short of what I would accept as bottomline quality. For those who respond to this message, what do you think Oly's new ZLR will include for features? I would be most interested in reading your opinions.

I'm a novice photographer, with at least three years' worth of
training to do before I can even think of creating great
compositional work. Obviously, a camera like the E-20 would be
perfect for beginners like myself. But the E-20 does have some
drawbacks, and at this late date I'm wondering if I should wait to
see if Olympus is going to release a superior model in a few
months, or devote itself exclusively to its upcoming SLR 4/3 line.

For myself, it makes no sense to invest heavily into digital SLR,
and film cameras cost too much for film and processing. Can anyone
tell me, then, what rumors they might have heard on a possible
future ZLR camera from Olympus? Thanks for all advice.

 

[OldDigiman]

After buying a new, grpahics-powerful DELL computer, an Epson 960
printer and a ViewSonic flat-panel monitor, I will be waiting until
mid-June to begin looking seriously at digital cameras. That's when
my 90-day probation will be completed on my new retirement job. My
purpose in asking the headline question is because I have doubts
that even the best of the current-generation ZLRs is adequate in
taking a novice to high-end compositional training.

Of the two cameras that I've most closely considered--the Nikon
5700 and the Oly E-20--there appear to be serious output or build
quality issues. The Nikon beats the E-20 all across the board in
terms of raw resolution and photographic capabilities. The E-20
runs circles around the Nikon so far as build quality, and has a
true TTL viewfinder. These are just the major issues for me; I need
not tell you each camera's abilities and limitations as they are
well known.

As I am not therefore interested in either camera, what will I have
to look forward to within the next year? I am going to guess that
Nikon and Olympus will both release new models by November, but
what can we expect? I will be most interested in the Olympus
release, as I was very impressed with the E-20, a camera that fell
just short of what I would accept as bottomline quality. For those
who respond to this message, what do you think Oly's new ZLR will
include for features? I would be most interested in reading your
opinions.

I'm a novice photographer, with at least three years' worth of
training to do before I can even think of creating great
compositional work. Obviously, a camera like the E-20 would be
perfect for beginners like myself. But the E-20 does have some
drawbacks, and at this late date I'm wondering if I should wait to
see if Olympus is going to release a superior model in a few
months, or devote itself exclusively to its upcoming SLR 4/3 line.

For myself, it makes no sense to invest heavily into digital SLR,
and film cameras cost too much for film and processing. Can anyone
tell me, then, what rumors they might have heard on a possible
future ZLR camera from Olympus? Thanks for all advice.

 

[David M.]

"the current-generation ZLRs is adequate in taking a novice to high-end compositional training."> > >

I learned more about photography in the year and a half I've had my E20 than in the ten years I've owned film SLR's and the 3 years I've had P&S digicams by a LONG shot.

"The Nikon beats the E-20 all across the board in

terms of raw resolution and photographic capabilities"> > >

Really? I'd like to see some examples. I've compared both cams and the Nikon fell short in so many areas it was laughable. I don't mean this to sound rude or trying to back up the E20 fanatically....if the Nikon actually beat the Oly I'd be the first to admit it. But a serious comparison between the two did it for me. I won't write a book on the differences, but suffice it to say that the shutter lag and EVF on the Nikon did it in for me right from the start, much less the lens quality comparison and build quality/ergonomics. It's a toy.

The rest of your post makes sense. If the E20 is'nt what you're looking for then one of the interchangeabl;e lens DSLR's is the only step up. If it were me, I would'nt wait around forever, because in the meantime you are comparing specs to no end instead of being OUT THERE taking pictures. The Canon 10D would do it for me.

After buying a new, grpahics-powerful DELL computer, an Epson 960
printer and a ViewSonic flat-panel monitor, I will be waiting until
mid-June to begin looking seriously at digital cameras. That's when
my 90-day probation will be completed on my new retirement job. My
purpose in asking the headline question is because I have doubts
that even the best of the current-generation ZLRs is adequate in
taking a novice to high-end compositional training.

Of the two cameras that I've most closely considered--the Nikon
5700 and the Oly E-20--there appear to be serious output or build
quality issues. The Nikon beats the E-20 all across the board in
terms of raw resolution and photographic capabilities. The E-20
runs circles around the Nikon so far as build quality, and has a
true TTL viewfinder. These are just the major issues for me; I need
not tell you each camera's abilities and limitations as they are
well known.

As I am not therefore interested in either camera, what will I have
to look forward to within the next year? I am going to guess that
Nikon and Olympus will both release new models by November, but
what can we expect? I will be most interested in the Olympus
release, as I was very impressed with the E-20, a camera that fell
just short of what I would accept as bottomline quality. For those
who respond to this message, what do you think Oly's new ZLR will
include for features? I would be most interested in reading your
opinions.

I'm a novice photographer, with at least three years' worth of
training to do before I can even think of creating great
compositional work. Obviously, a camera like the E-20 would be
perfect for beginners like myself. But the E-20 does have some
drawbacks, and at this late date I'm wondering if I should wait to
see if Olympus is going to release a superior model in a few
months, or devote itself exclusively to its upcoming SLR 4/3 line.

For myself, it makes no sense to invest heavily into digital SLR,
and film cameras cost too much for film and processing. Can anyone
tell me, then, what rumors they might have heard on a possible
future ZLR camera from Olympus? Thanks for all advice.

--

Oly E20/TCON-300, Kodak DC4800's/Ektanar lenses, Canon GL1, ZR25, Minolta HTsi+ 28-80/75-300 Silver
PBase supporter

 

[Uhustic]

Olympus is not going to make another ZLR like the E-20.

Get yourself a Canon 10D like one of the guys suggests.
You will go far and it will serve you well.

Otherwise you coudl be waiting for ever and all we want to do is make pictures and not fawn over cameras.

After buying a new, grpahics-powerful DELL computer, an Epson 960
printer and a ViewSonic flat-panel monitor, I will be waiting until
mid-June to begin looking seriously at digital cameras. That's when
my 90-day probation will be completed on my new retirement job. My
purpose in asking the headline question is because I have doubts
that even the best of the current-generation ZLRs is adequate in
taking a novice to high-end compositional training.

Of the two cameras that I've most closely considered--the Nikon
5700 and the Oly E-20--there appear to be serious output or build
quality issues. The Nikon beats the E-20 all across the board in
terms of raw resolution and photographic capabilities. The E-20
runs circles around the Nikon so far as build quality, and has a
true TTL viewfinder. These are just the major issues for me; I need
not tell you each camera's abilities and limitations as they are
well known.

As I am not therefore interested in either camera, what will I have
to look forward to within the next year? I am going to guess that
Nikon and Olympus will both release new models by November, but
what can we expect? I will be most interested in the Olympus
release, as I was very impressed with the E-20, a camera that fell
just short of what I would accept as bottomline quality. For those
who respond to this message, what do you think Oly's new ZLR will
include for features? I would be most interested in reading your
opinions.

I'm a novice photographer, with at least three years' worth of
training to do before I can even think of creating great
compositional work. Obviously, a camera like the E-20 would be
perfect for beginners like myself. But the E-20 does have some
drawbacks, and at this late date I'm wondering if I should wait to
see if Olympus is going to release a superior model in a few
months, or devote itself exclusively to its upcoming SLR 4/3 line.

For myself, it makes no sense to invest heavily into digital SLR,
and film cameras cost too much for film and processing. Can anyone
tell me, then, what rumors they might have heard on a possible
future ZLR camera from Olympus? Thanks for all advice.

 

[Walter Freiberger]

Olympus is not going to make another ZLR like the E-20.

Get yourself a Canon 10D like one of the guys suggests.
You will go far and it will serve you well.

An obvious compromise between Olympus and Canon is Nikon with its DX lenses. The D100 gives you more possibilities than the 10D or the E-system especially for wide angle. As a second choice I'd rather consider Olympus over Canon.

 

[Uhustic]

Good advice! The DX lenses will probably set the standard for wideangles on a smaller than full frame camera.

For me my choices would be Canon, Nikon, Fuji and Kodak in that order.
Olympus would be a very far 5th for my money.

Olympus is not going to make another ZLR like the E-20.

Get yourself a Canon 10D like one of the guys suggests.
You will go far and it will serve you well.

An obvious compromise between Olympus and Canon is Nikon with its
DX lenses. The D100 gives you more possibilities than the 10D or
the E-system especially for wide angle. As a second choice I'd
rather consider Olympus over Canon.

 

[Rich Simpson UK]

I don't recall Henri Cartier Bresson had access to $5000 worth of DSLR to learn his supreme craft of composition.

If that is your goal I'd suggest a second-hand OM-1 would fit the bill nicely. And as far as build quality is concerned you will find very little superior to the E-XX. "Photographic capability of a camera"? I though that photographic capability lay in the hands of the user - or maybe the great Canon / Nikon / Fuji publicity machines have in the final resort, succeeded.

If so, I'll dust off my trusty OM-1 myself .....

I have doubts that even the best of the current-generation ZLRs is adequate in taking a novice to high-end compositional training.

Of the two cameras that I've most closely considered--the Nikon
5700 and the Oly E-20--there appear to be serious output or build
quality issues. The Nikon beats the E-20 all across the board in
terms of raw resolution and photographic capabilities. The E-20
runs circles around the Nikon so far as build quality, and has a
true TTL viewfinder. These are just the major issues for me; I need
not tell you each camera's abilities and limitations as they are
well known.

Kind regards,

Rich Simpson
CP 950, 995, 5000
Olympus E100RS E20P FL-40 TCON-14B WCON-08 TCON300 MCON

 

[Jim Attfield]

... own an E-10 or E-20, Uhustic?

The only reason I ask is that you bang on about the 'shortcomings' of the Oly and wax lyrically about the advantages of the 10D and the D100 and DX lenses.

I will not diss either camera, but would like to draw your attention to the boatload of posts about various focus and soft image issues with the 10D and would also like to point out that the E-10/20 has had a purpose designed digital imaging lens for years (Nikon is playing catch up here) and is the only DSLR available for some time which is not a 35mm 'makeover'.

Frankly, I could speculate that Canon is extremely worried about what Oly could achieve with it's new system (assuming a quality low noise high ISO capable sensor with Oly's already great glass) and is desperately trying to get there first. Why else can the D-60 so soon for a lower price point model closer to E-10/20 territory (as it was before price drops)?

Anyhow, that's just speculation, not long to wait now.

BTW if you want to come around here and diss the E-10/20 be prepared to state facts to support your argument. There is nothing at the price to match it. And another thing - I hate the term ZLR - what pr* k coined that?

Jim

Good advice! The DX lenses will probably set the standard for

--- SNIP! ---

 

[Uhustic]

Jim,

I do own an 10 and a 20. Mine focuses badly in less than bright light.

It also front focuses consistently (20). But I carry around a flashlight for low light work and I know where to focus if I want my subject sharp.

The lens on it as actually not as digital as you may think. It's just another regular lens design that takes advantage of the center image circle.

The lens is sharp, but does not have the great tonal qualitites of T* coated zeiss lenses. It's not so sharp wide open, but not many lenses are.
The 10 was a nice camera and so was the 20, but I've outgrown them.

Better yet, I am finished waiting for the stupid camera to empty the buffer, tired of out of focvus shots even in bright light, poor color saturation and dim viewfinder.

The Olympus cameras have shortcomings where I think they are not acceptable. The other brands have problems too. All these cameras have problems to a certain degree in common areas.

The best anyone can do with any camera is just learn it's quirks and make images. I did and even though the cameras can not focus in low light, I have a really great set of work arounds that allowed me to use the camera in low light. So, I learned to live with the shortcomings.

The E20 is no longer a commercially viable camera when the 10D is priced alike. In fact, E20 sales have pretty much stopped cold since the 10D came out (according to a dealer survey). If Canon really wanted to kill Olympus, then their strategy is really working!

However, Canon makes money selling lenses and if you buy a 10D and lens, they got you for a while. It will be really hard for Olympus to get those customers back. If you can do it, I am sure they would make you president of Olympus. My thought is that Canon really wanted to hurt Olympus and Fuji more than they care about Olympus.

Yeah, Canon could be worried about Olympus, but their market share has grown and it's come from Olympus' market share. Also, if Olympus made their sensors, lenses, etc... I would worry if I were Canon. But since Canon makes all their own sensors (the most expensive part), I have less to worry about since Sony (and now Kodak) makes Olympus sensors and you know the cost is higher for Olympus than Canon. Hence the lower priced 10D.

Long term which business model would you rather have? I go with the Canon model since my cost are lower and I will be more competitive if I have to or higher profit (all things, especially pricing being equal).

Olympus may have had good glass in the past, but so did Canon, Nikon and others. Today though, Olympus has their work cut out for them since Canon and Nikon have really superb glass and more money to develop even better lenses. Olympus has had to out source glass and technology (at a price). So I would not worry too much about Canon vs Olympus. The real race is between Canon and Nikon. Olympus will be a very comfortable #5 or #6 because I think Pentax is going to outsell the Olympus SLR.

Pentax and Olympus will be out at the same time and I am betting the Pentax will quickly win sales over Olympus simply because it will take old Pentax K mount lenses and have more resolution than the Olympus.

As far as my facts....I own Olympus now. But will sell it since these things do not hold much value. Kinda like computers almost.

I bought a Fuji S2 because the color was very pleasing to me and the super CCD does a great job. And....I had a ton of nikon lenses.

However, the Nikon system is also limited by that narrow lens mount.

I would hate to buy all new DX lenses just to get real wideangle and so I am looking at the 10D even harder these days.

Having used the 10D extensively, I find that it is a good camera. The color requires more processing than the S2 but it has almost no noise and can shoot and shoot without the waiting period the 10/20 have.

By the way, after seeing color as Fuji defines it...the 10/20 color is just plain unsaturated. even lower than real life.

I think some prick at Olympus coined the ZLR term and then told a reporter from a photo magazine to use it. The rest is history....

I do think Olympus makes the best P&S camera available and I have several that I will keep as long as they work. I just got the latest Stylus digital and that is one sweet camera. I think Stylus is what Olympus does best and what will save their ass. We should start and Stylus forum.

The 5050, I have seen some amazing stuff from this camera that friends have shot. Very nice for a rangefinder but since it's $799, I'll just keep saving money since it's half way to a 10D.

You are right that there is nothing like the E20 at the price. Especially if you consider the cost of a lens which the E20 comes permanently attached to. For me, I think a 10D at $1499 plus another $500 for a lens is reasonable and only $500 more than an E20, but you get so much more than an E20 (performance, resolution, etc..) and you can use the lens with other Canon cameras (film, full frame) in the future.

Thanks for listening to me speculate on Olympus.

Clem

We're just talking cameras and not saving the world. It's not really very serious at all.

 

[David M.]

"Mine focuses badly in less than bright light."> > >

So do most digicams priced under 2 grand. So does all of my camcorders, including the Canon GL1 which was a 2500$ cam. Know what I do? I GET SOME LIGHT ON THE SUBJECT. Wow. That was hard.

"It also front focuses consistently (20)."> >

Huh? Mine does'nt. And why would the 20 do it and not the 10? Same lens, same sensor size.

"The lens on it as actually not as digital as you may think."

It's still a heck of alot better than the other DSLR "makeshift" solutions, and for it's speed and quality it can't be touched by the competitor's glass for under a small fortune.

"The lens is sharp, but does not have the great tonal qualitites of

T* coated zeiss lenses."> >

Again, it does not have the great stratospheric cost of T* coated Zeiss lenses. Also, while you're at it, post here a comparison of this. I'd like to see it.

" It's not so sharp wide open, but not many

lenses are."> >

No need to comment here. You negated your own comment before I could. Good job.

"Better yet, I am finished waiting for the stupid camera to empty

the buffer, tired of out of focvus shots even in bright light, poor
color saturation and dim viewfinder.

"You are SO far off base here it's seriously not funny. The buffer issue is subjective....some find it a nuisance, some, like myself, it does'nt affect at all. I shoot landscapes mostly, and I don't know about you, but I try generally to get my exposure and composition right the first time rather than fire off a whole bunch of shots and cross my toes I get one right. Same applies in portraiture. It's not a sports or fast action camera to be sure....but then again not much is with it's fast shutter lag excepting for cams like the D1h, which again will cost you and arm and leg more. By the time I recompose and adjust lighting or exposure, the buffer has easily cleared. I have NEVER got a problem with AF not functioning properly and accurately in good light. Never. Maybe that's cuz I learned how to use the camera though, ya think? Poor color saturation???? Don't you mean minimal camera processing, or neutral color output for wider gamut and dynamic range? Perhaps you'd be better off with a nice point and shoot that over-saturates everything beyond all hope of precise post-process? Dim VF??? The Exx has one of the best in it's class for this. I find it to be MORE than adequate. Maybe you need a new prescription?

"The Olympus cameras have shortcomings where I think they are not

acceptable. "> >

Then sell the damn things and buy something that blows wind up yer skirt.

"The E20 is no longer a commercially viable camera when the 10D is

priced alike. "> >

Bull. The 10D is a BODY. You gonna take a whole lotta pictures with a body? What do you plan on using for a lens, a magnifying glass?? The Exx lens is perfect for many applications such as portraiture and comes WITH a great body equalled in build quality by only the very top makes, all for a price you are getting a 10d body only for. Nice try but no cigaro...well, maybe a cheap one, but forget about a Havana....

"However, Canon makes money selling lenses"> >

LOL!! You BET they do!! Sounds like they're going to have a bucketload of YOUR money too!

"if you buy a 10D and

lens, they got you for a while."> >

Righto again. By the old cajones I might add, as well as your shrinking pocketbook.

I'm going to stop here. The rest of your post is blah, blah, cough, choke wheeze blahh blah.

Sorry, don't mean to be an a$$, I just don't get it. Sell your cams and buy a 10D if you are trhat unhappy. But your comments here are not based in fact, mostly conjecture and biased opinion, and have a ring of bitterness about them while most on this forum are happy with what they have. Go take the wind out of someone else's sails.....matter of fact. I'm sure you will be in the Canon forum after you find that your new nifty 10D has a bunch of shortcomings too, and you start on about whatever other companies cams are soooo much better.

 

[markE59102]

You're making some good points here, David.

"Mine focuses badly in less than bright light."> > >

So do most digicams priced under 2 grand.

After using a Nikon Coolpix, you'll think the Exx's focus is a gift from the heavens!

"It also front focuses consistently (20)."> >

Huh? Mine does'nt.

Mine neither.

"The lens on it as actually not as digital as you may think."

It's still a heck of alot better than the other DSLR "makeshift"
solutions, and for it's speed and quality it can't be touched by
the competitor's glass for under a small fortune.

Yeah. Uh...David, you know my Corvette goes faster than my mini-van? Yeah, REALLY! ;-)

"The lens is sharp, but does not have the great tonal qualitites of

T* coated zeiss lenses."> >

Also, while you're at it, post here a comparison of
this. I'd like to see it.

They'll be rolling in any minute now, I'm sure.

" It's not so sharp wide open, but not many

lenses are."> >

No need to comment here. You negated your own comment before I
could. Good job.

Uh, was there a point there?

"Better yet, I am finished waiting for the stupid camera to empty

the buffer, tired of out of focvus shots even in bright light, poor
color saturation and dim viewfinder.

LOL! Sorry, I'll listen now...

"You are SO far off base here it's seriously not funny. The buffer
issue is subjective....

Uh, what buffer issue? Oh, there's a BUFFER isuue? Gees, why didn't someone TELL me that?!!! Grrrrrrrrrr!!!! GAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not a sports or fast action camera to be
sure....

There have been several people here that have even proven that wrong. I've seen BMX, auto-racing, ball games, and even that weird guy's diving eagle shots. I'll tell ya, when you learn how to get the shot using a Coolpix to stop a Greyhound...I'll say it again...the Exx is like a gift from the heavens!

I have NEVER got a
problem with AF not functioning properly and accurately in good
light. Never. Maybe that's cuz I learned how to use the camera
though, ya think?

I think so!

Ya der, hey!

Poor color saturation???? Don't you mean
minimal camera processing, or neutral color output for wider gamut
and dynamic range? Perhaps you'd be better off with a nice point
and shoot that over-saturates everything

Who erased my Disney shots?

beyond all hope of precise post-process?

Maybe you need a new prescription?

FoR wHaT? :

"The Olympus cameras have shortcomings where I think they are not

acceptable. "> >

Then sell the damn things and buy something that blows wind up yer
skirt.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL....(sorry, I can't stop)...LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL...

"The E20 is no longer a commercially viable camera when the 10D is

priced alike. "> >

Sure isn't! Hey, when did that happen? Where can I get a 10D with a $500+ lens for $1000?

You gonna take a whole lotta pictures with a body?

Only if she's cute.

What do you plan on using for a lens, a magnifying
glass??

I got dis heer nice Coke bottle bottum. Got da duck tape and silakone! We ready!

I'm going to stop here. The rest of your post is blah, blah,
cough, choke wheeze blahh blah.

That's all the dust flying around that I'm NOT getting inside my E-20 lens.

Oh, that was fun. Let's do it again sometime.

--
markE
pbase supporter

-Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/marke/natural_world

 

[PDM]

Are you the old troll (Clem Noname) that used to love telling us all how useless our Exx's are? I'd bet you are one in the same. Your newest history only goes back 2 months. Hmm.. but you say you own the E10 and E20? And in other posts you say you own an Uzi, and no less than three Oly Stylus'!
Yea right...

Paul

Jim,

I do own an 10 and a 20. Mine focuses badly in less than bright light.
It also front focuses consistently (20). But I carry around a
flashlight for low light work and I know where to focus if I want
my subject sharp.

The lens on it as actually not as digital as you may think. It's
just another regular lens design that takes advantage of the center
image circle.
The lens is sharp, but does not have the great tonal qualitites of
T* coated zeiss lenses. It's not so sharp wide open, but not many
lenses are.
The 10 was a nice camera and so was the 20, but I've outgrown them.
Better yet, I am finished waiting for the stupid camera to empty
the buffer, tired of out of focvus shots even in bright light, poor
color saturation and dim viewfinder.

The Olympus cameras have shortcomings where I think they are not
acceptable. The other brands have problems too. All these cameras
have problems to a certain degree in common areas.

The best anyone can do with any camera is just learn it's quirks
and make images. I did and even though the cameras can not focus in
low light, I have a really great set of work arounds that allowed
me to use the camera in low light. So, I learned to live with the
shortcomings.

The E20 is no longer a commercially viable camera when the 10D is
priced alike. In fact, E20 sales have pretty much stopped cold
since the 10D came out (according to a dealer survey). If Canon
really wanted to kill Olympus, then their strategy is really
working!
However, Canon makes money selling lenses and if you buy a 10D and
lens, they got you for a while. It will be really hard for Olympus
to get those customers back. If you can do it, I am sure they would
make you president of Olympus. My thought is that Canon really
wanted to hurt Olympus and Fuji more than they care about Olympus.

Yeah, Canon could be worried about Olympus, but their market share
has grown and it's come from Olympus' market share. Also, if
Olympus made their sensors, lenses, etc... I would worry if I were
Canon. But since Canon makes all their own sensors (the most
expensive part), I have less to worry about since Sony (and now
Kodak) makes Olympus sensors and you know the cost is higher for
Olympus than Canon. Hence the lower priced 10D.
Long term which business model would you rather have? I go with the
Canon model since my cost are lower and I will be more competitive
if I have to or higher profit (all things, especially pricing being
equal).

Olympus may have had good glass in the past, but so did Canon,
Nikon and others. Today though, Olympus has their work cut out for
them since Canon and Nikon have really superb glass and more money
to develop even better lenses. Olympus has had to out source glass
and technology (at a price). So I would not worry too much about
Canon vs Olympus. The real race is between Canon and Nikon. Olympus
will be a very comfortable #5 or #6 because I think Pentax is going
to outsell the Olympus SLR.
Pentax and Olympus will be out at the same time and I am betting
the Pentax will quickly win sales over Olympus simply because it
will take old Pentax K mount lenses and have more resolution than
the Olympus.

As far as my facts....I own Olympus now. But will sell it since
these things do not hold much value. Kinda like computers almost.
I bought a Fuji S2 because the color was very pleasing to me and
the super CCD does a great job. And....I had a ton of nikon lenses.

However, the Nikon system is also limited by that narrow lens mount.
I would hate to buy all new DX lenses just to get real wideangle
and so I am looking at the 10D even harder these days.

Having used the 10D extensively, I find that it is a good camera.
The color requires more processing than the S2 but it has almost no
noise and can shoot and shoot without the waiting period the 10/20
have.
By the way, after seeing color as Fuji defines it...the 10/20 color
is just plain unsaturated. even lower than real life.

I think some prick at Olympus coined the ZLR term and then told a
reporter from a photo magazine to use it. The rest is history....

I do think Olympus makes the best P&S camera available and I have
several that I will keep as long as they work. I just got the
latest Stylus digital and that is one sweet camera. I think Stylus
is what Olympus does best and what will save their ass. We should
start and Stylus forum.

The 5050, I have seen some amazing stuff from this camera that
friends have shot. Very nice for a rangefinder but since it's $799,
I'll just keep saving money since it's half way to a 10D.

You are right that there is nothing like the E20 at the price.
Especially if you consider the cost of a lens which the E20 comes
permanently attached to. For me, I think a 10D at $1499 plus
another $500 for a lens is reasonable and only $500 more than an
E20, but you get so much more than an E20 (performance, resolution,
etc..) and you can use the lens with other Canon cameras (film,
full frame) in the future.

Thanks for listening to me speculate on Olympus.

Clem

We're just talking cameras and not saving the world. It's not
really very serious at all.