602 was not taken as serious tool

[Leo]

I was showing my 602 to a professional artist and he valued it very low for two simple reasons which are apparently are very important for his use of a camera.

1. Not a smooth zoom. He had a hard time to set zoom. It was under or over of what he really wanted. He does not repair his photos later (crop) after it is take. It is one time deal and should be the way he wants. One of the reasons - he does not have the time luxury to fix it later. His feel of composition is at the level when he does not guess. He does not click to find later that cropping is required.

2. The second dislike was the 602 large barrel distortion. That was simply not acceptable.

He is not a snob and has several well working simple older film cameras 6x6 cm and 35 mm SLR with good lenses.

After hitting these two barriers he handled the camera back to me and did not touched it after. He was very surprise that this tool could cost $600. That price tag could deliver a good 35 mm camera. For developing and printing he uses a professional lab. I have checked the lab charges $5 to $10 for one photo red-eye fix. After all my former digicams I think very highly of the 602 and would never return to the film type photography. But again, I am just a hobbyist. For me the camera is fun but for him is a tool. He did not want to know more about this camera based on these two described above deficiencies.

I do like the camera and often felt that its zoom made of steps. It has not been a news for me all my former cameras behaved the same way (may be Nikon was a bit smoother). The barrel distortion is also not a news for low priced digicams. We are mot respected much by designers and manufacturers – we are buying these cameras as pancakes anyway.

If I have to buy a new camera today then it could be only 602. In a year .... who knows.
Leo

 

[hoogie]

I was showing my 602 to a professional artist and he valued it very
low for two simple reasons which are apparently are very important
for his use of a camera.
1. Not a smooth zoom. He had a hard time to set zoom. It was under
or over of what he really wanted. He does not repair his photos
later (crop) after it is take. It is one time deal and should be
the way he wants. One of the reasons - he does not have the time
luxury to fix it later. His feel of composition is at the level
when he does not guess. He does not click to find later that
cropping is required.
2. The second dislike was the 602 large barrel distortion. That was
simply not acceptable.

He is not a snob and has several well working simple older film
cameras 6x6 cm and 35 mm SLR with good lenses.

lol I think everyone has a personal opinion of cameras in in my research the s602 is the best "3MP" camera out there.

Every camera has downfalls .....i think this professional artist needs to get outside a bit more

 

[Leo]

hoogie,

I agree with your first point "everyone has a personal opinion". I would also add and everyone has personal preferences and requirements. For this gentleman my 602 1.8% barrel distortion and 18 steps are not acceptable for x6 zoom camera. It is that simple.

I think he has less room to tolerate improvement with a low cost tag attached to them. It is too expensive for him. That may be why professional people do not buy 602 but EOS D60, S2,Nikon D100 and ....
Leo

I was showing my 602 to a professional artist and he valued it very
low for two simple reasons which are apparently are very important
for his use of a camera.
1. Not a smooth zoom. He had a hard time to set zoom. It was under
or over of what he really wanted. He does not repair his photos
later (crop) after it is take. It is one time deal and should be
the way he wants. One of the reasons - he does not have the time
luxury to fix it later. His feel of composition is at the level
when he does not guess. He does not click to find later that
cropping is required.
2. The second dislike was the 602 large barrel distortion. That was
simply not acceptable.

He is not a snob and has several well working simple older film
cameras 6x6 cm and 35 mm SLR with good lenses.

lol I think everyone has a personal opinion of cameras in in my
research the s602 is the best "3MP" camera out there.

Every camera has downfalls .....i think this professional artist
needs to get outside a bit more

 

[Stephen Johnson141141]

He is not a snob and has several well working simple older film
cameras 6x6 cm and 35 mm SLR with good lenses.

lol I think everyone has a personal opinion of cameras in in my
research the s602 is the best "3MP" camera out there.

Every camera has downfalls .....i think this professional artist
needs to get outside a bit more

Me thinks you don't know a snob when you see one. LOL. For the money the S602 is alot of camera. Can't get much more for less, but can get less for more.
--
Cheers, Steve & Ramie J.

 

[tdkd13]

An analogy: as a regular guy that drives to work and around town I find a specific car, say a BMW 7 series, to be great. If I am a race car driver, a 7 series is not going to impress me much.

If you like your camera, that should suffice, no need for everyone else to love it as well is there.
Best of luck, Ted

I was showing my 602 to a professional artist and he valued it very
low for two simple reasons which are apparently are very important
for his use of a camera.
1. Not a smooth zoom. He had a hard time to set zoom. It was under
or over of what he really wanted. He does not repair his photos
later (crop) after it is take. It is one time deal and should be
the way he wants. One of the reasons - he does not have the time
luxury to fix it later. His feel of composition is at the level
when he does not guess. He does not click to find later that
cropping is required.
2. The second dislike was the 602 large barrel distortion. That was
simply not acceptable.

He is not a snob and has several well working simple older film
cameras 6x6 cm and 35 mm SLR with good lenses.

lol I think everyone has a personal opinion of cameras in in my
research the s602 is the best "3MP" camera out there.

Every camera has downfalls .....i think this professional artist
needs to get outside a bit more

--
http://www.pbase.com/tdkd13

 

[Leo]

Stephen,

Then why these professional SLRs for just a body = $2,000 plus good! lenses. Then why they do not impressed much with “a lot of camera for the money”? Because that is not what they need. They are buying not “a lot of camera for the money” but a good camera for a lot of money. Do not be so quick and easy to label. It just looks funny.

I did post to down 602 but to share the experience.
Leo

He is not a snob and has several well working simple older film
cameras 6x6 cm and 35 mm SLR with good lenses.

lol I think everyone has a personal opinion of cameras in in my
research the s602 is the best "3MP" camera out there.

Every camera has downfalls .....i think this professional artist
needs to get outside a bit more

Me thinks you don't know a snob when you see one. LOL. For the
money the S602 is alot of camera. Can't get much more for less, but
can get less for more.
--
Cheers, Steve & Ramie J.

 

[Leo]

tdkd13,

I wanted to impress him ))) But for him it was a toy and not a tool to use for his work. That is all. For me it is a tool, because my requirements are lower. It is not that he was not impressed but he would not use it for his work. All film related expense are not important to him but spent time and image quality that he knows how to get out of his film SLRs.
Leo

I was showing my 602 to a professional artist and he valued it very
low for two simple reasons which are apparently are very important
for his use of a camera.
1. Not a smooth zoom. He had a hard time to set zoom. It was under
or over of what he really wanted. He does not repair his photos
later (crop) after it is take. It is one time deal and should be
the way he wants. One of the reasons - he does not have the time
luxury to fix it later. His feel of composition is at the level
when he does not guess. He does not click to find later that
cropping is required.
2. The second dislike was the 602 large barrel distortion. That was
simply not acceptable.

He is not a snob and has several well working simple older film
cameras 6x6 cm and 35 mm SLR with good lenses.

lol I think everyone has a personal opinion of cameras in in my
research the s602 is the best "3MP" camera out there.

Every camera has downfalls .....i think this professional artist
needs to get outside a bit more

--
http://www.pbase.com/tdkd13

 

[Stephen W.123476]

There's a big difference between an SLR and a 602 still.

The Fuji 602 is a great camera, no question about it, especially in comparison to other consumer digital cameras at the sub 1k range. Unfortunately it is still extremely lacking to Film SLRs that can be acquired for 1/4th as much.

I enjoy using my fuji for experimentations and General purpose photography, but my SLR performs exceptionally well and beyond the fuji for half the price of what I spent on the Fuji.

Since you're friend is a professional, you can expect him to have much higher tastes then normal. It'd be like attempting to extoll the virtues of a Ford Focus to a NASCAR racer. They're obviously looking at a feature set well beyond your own needs.

 

[FotoGrl]

Hope there is always room for another opinion. I currently use the S602 extensively and feel it is a great camera. I love almost everything about it and the things I don't are very minor and not even worth mentioning. . For me it performs beautifully and is very reliable. It has become one of many important tools in my arsenal. I would not hesitate to use it for an important assignment or for my leisure. You might also be interested in knowing that I too am a professional.
http://www.betterphoto.com/gallery/dynoGallByMember.asp?mem=20857

There's a big difference between an SLR and a 602 still.

The Fuji 602 is a great camera, no question about it, especially in
comparison to other consumer digital cameras at the sub 1k range.
Unfortunately it is still extremely lacking to Film SLRs that can
be acquired for 1/4th as much.

I enjoy using my fuji for experimentations and General purpose
photography, but my SLR performs exceptionally well and beyond the
fuji for half the price of what I spent on the Fuji.

Since you're friend is a professional, you can expect him to have
much higher tastes then normal. It'd be like attempting to extoll
the virtues of a Ford Focus to a NASCAR racer. They're obviously
looking at a feature set well beyond your own needs.

 

[crayz]

There's all this talk about how expensive digital is. And yet...how much do SLR people spend on film?

I don't think the cost comparison is so simple. I shot over 6000 shots in the 2 years I owned a Fuji 1400z. How much would that have cost me to buy the film for all those, much less develop them?

 

[Leo]

Fotogirl,

Thank you for sharing your photos. You have such a good feel for composition and colors. All you photos are very-very good and excellent and very interesting. The eyes just cannot skip any one of them.
Leo

There's a big difference between an SLR and a 602 still.

The Fuji 602 is a great camera, no question about it, especially in
comparison to other consumer digital cameras at the sub 1k range.
Unfortunately it is still extremely lacking to Film SLRs that can
be acquired for 1/4th as much.

I enjoy using my fuji for experimentations and General purpose
photography, but my SLR performs exceptionally well and beyond the
fuji for half the price of what I spent on the Fuji.

Since you're friend is a professional, you can expect him to have
much higher tastes then normal. It'd be like attempting to extoll
the virtues of a Ford Focus to a NASCAR racer. They're obviously
looking at a feature set well beyond your own needs.

 

[Leo]

crayz,

For my friend as for many other professionals it does not matter. The film-associated cost may bother me but not them. I think if they would shoot 6000 images these will developed and printed. Then they would deduct these expense from taxes the same way as they would declare the income made from these 6000 printed images. I do not make a penny with my photos for a simple reason - no one would pay for ....... ))))).
Leo

There's all this talk about how expensive digital is. And yet...how
much do SLR people spend on film?

I don't think the cost comparison is so simple. I shot over 6000
shots in the 2 years I owned a Fuji 1400z. How much would that have
cost me to buy the film for all those, much less develop them?

 

[Edward Casati]

The man is a snob.

To judge a tool, any tool, without considering your abilities and final product is just plain ignorant. Many photographic "artists" hide behind their equipment and attitude. And we all know 'artists' with top of the line equipment that produces garbage. It is not the equipment, it is you that is important.

Any 35mm film camera can be considered inferior by the medium format and large format crowd. They are snobs also.

Your friend does not crop? Another sure sign of being a total snob. I crop to whatever ratio is best for my composition. Limiting myself to the manufacturer specified film ratio is just plain dumb.

My suggestion. When speaking to other "artists", be a snob yourself and refuse to discuss your equipment. Let your product speak for itself. It is not the equipment that you use that is important, it is the art that you create that should be discussed.

Edward

On a side note... I hate the zoom toggle on the S602, and the barrel distortion is significant enough to make the camera unusable in many wide angle situations. So I agree with your snob friend from a technical perspective. He just needs to learn some manners.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I was showing my 602 to a professional artist and he valued it very
low for two simple reasons which are apparently are very important
for his use of a camera.
1. Not a smooth zoom. He had a hard time to set zoom. It was under
or over of what he really wanted. He does not repair his photos
later (crop) after it is take. It is one time deal and should be
the way he wants. One of the reasons - he does not have the time
luxury to fix it later. His feel of composition is at the level
when he does not guess. He does not click to find later that
cropping is required.
2. The second dislike was the 602 large barrel distortion. That was
simply not acceptable.

He is not a snob and has several well working simple older film
cameras 6x6 cm and 35 mm SLR with good lenses.

After hitting these two barriers he handled the camera back to me
and did not touched it after. He was very surprise that this tool
could cost $600. That price tag could deliver a good 35 mm camera.
For developing and printing he uses a professional lab. I have
checked the lab charges $5 to $10 for one photo red-eye fix. After
all my former digicams I think very highly of the 602 and would
never return to the film type photography. But again, I am just a
hobbyist. For me the camera is fun but for him is a tool. He did
not want to know more about this camera based on these two
described above deficiencies.
I do like the camera and often felt that its zoom made of steps. It
has not been a news for me all my former cameras behaved the same
way (may be Nikon was a bit smoother). The barrel distortion is
also not a news for low priced digicams. We are mot respected much
by designers and manufacturers – we are buying these cameras
as pancakes anyway.
If I have to buy a new camera today then it could be only 602. In a
year .... who knows.
Leo

 

[ianR]

I'm afraid this attitude is very common Leo. There's a pain of change associated with new ideas, and although digital is far from perfect it's got a lot of advantages over film and some people are scared of that and scared that they'll be left behind.

I mean, who really wants a mirror slapping around making a noise and shaking the camera? Was that ever really a good idea?

Do people really want the weight of the big old SLR cameras? I know I carried a big camera bag around for about 20 years and really don't want to go back.

And the EVF, however grainy it is, it still gives you far more feedback about what your doing than a screen ever will.

And all those bodies, one with a different type of film on each: b&w, daylight, tungsten etc.

I have a friend who is a pro photographer and quietly travels the world taking pictures for Time, National Geographic and various other books and magazines-mostly landscapes. He uses a battered old Nikon (nothing expensive) and although my old 6900 would never ever do for him, he still thinks it's a great little tool and loves to play with it (he's like a kid with a new toy).

I also went to a baptism which was like a Nikon convention. Everyone had Nikon film cameras and as I'm not a photographic evangelist, I didn't get involved. But I was the only one with a decent flash in the dark church, and watching them wave their cameras around one handed to take a shot, and shooting from 15 yards with their pea sized flash, I wasn't surprised that they all complained it was too dark afterwards and the results were poor. I presented the astonished parents with one of my shots which although not fantastic, caught the moment for them pretty well. They asked me what lenses I used on my Nikon.
Barrel Distortion

Photobrush has a feature that'll fix it, and there's a great little freeware called debarrelizer that will plugin to Photoshop and do it for you almost automatically. You can set up an action and batch process too. I've put it on my site for download if you want it.Very simple and works in a couple of seconds.
http://www.ian-ratcliffe.com/

And with this new technology let us all think out of the box too. We can easily take 2 photos and stitch them together in a room. Forget extra wide angle lenses and panorama cameras. We can do SO much more than film.
regards
Ian

There's all this talk about how expensive digital is. And yet...how
much do SLR people spend on film?

I don't think the cost comparison is so simple. I shot over 6000
shots in the 2 years I owned a Fuji 1400z. How much would that have
cost me to buy the film for all those, much less develop them?

--
6900

 

[Pan Shizhu]

In the old age, most cameras have fix lens, i.e. lens with fixed focal length, and almost all the wide angle lens suffers from barrel distortion.

If you think there really were great photographers in the 1960's and 1970's or later, then you should admit smooth zoom and barrel distortion have nothing to do with "serious tool" or not.

I was showing my 602 to a professional artist and he valued it very
low for two simple reasons which are apparently are very important
for his use of a camera.
1. Not a smooth zoom. He had a hard time to set zoom. It was under
or over of what he really wanted. He does not repair his photos
later (crop) after it is take. It is one time deal and should be
the way he wants. One of the reasons - he does not have the time
luxury to fix it later. His feel of composition is at the level
when he does not guess. He does not click to find later that
cropping is required.
2. The second dislike was the 602 large barrel distortion. That was
simply not acceptable.

He is not a snob and has several well working simple older film
cameras 6x6 cm and 35 mm SLR with good lenses.

After hitting these two barriers he handled the camera back to me
and did not touched it after. He was very surprise that this tool
could cost $600. That price tag could deliver a good 35 mm camera.
For developing and printing he uses a professional lab. I have
checked the lab charges $5 to $10 for one photo red-eye fix. After
all my former digicams I think very highly of the 602 and would
never return to the film type photography. But again, I am just a
hobbyist. For me the camera is fun but for him is a tool. He did
not want to know more about this camera based on these two
described above deficiencies.
I do like the camera and often felt that its zoom made of steps. It
has not been a news for me all my former cameras behaved the same
way (may be Nikon was a bit smoother). The barrel distortion is
also not a news for low priced digicams. We are mot respected much
by designers and manufacturers – we are buying these cameras
as pancakes anyway.
If I have to buy a new camera today then it could be only 602. In a
year .... who knows.
Leo

 

[hoogie]

The man is a snob.
To judge a tool, any tool, without considering your abilities and
final product is just plain ignorant. Many photographic "artists"

Your friend does not crop? Another sure sign of being a total snob.
I crop to whatever ratio is best for my composition. Limiting
myself to the manufacturer specified film ratio is just plain dumb.

I agree i bet this so called proffesional artist would snob any digital camera....film users are often stubborn and refuse to accept that digial cameras in some cases take a photo as good as a 35m camera

sorry leo but this person is a classic snob!

 

[batty66824]

Amen to that, Ian.

As usual, you do post a lot of common sense.

It was nice of Leo to make the original post, 'though.

Thank you, Leo.

Certainly makes my one remaining braincell jump up and down with a plea for work.

If any 'professional' person is happy to continue with film, then so be it — but they aught to be aware of what they might be missing, through shunning the likes of the 602.

The 602 is as good as any tool, and much better than a lot, it really depends upon who is using it — I've known the owner of a £6,000 (sorta $12,000) Lie Nielson smoothing plane make nothing but hamster bedding, out of nice pieces of hardwood; if you think that photography could become a very expensive hobby - just try woodworking.

Anyway, IanR, have you converted all of those neanderthal Nikon film users to Fuji digital?

I hope not, because if everyone knew how relatively easy it can be to produce excellent pictures, the bottom would fall out of the market.

--
batty.

There's all this talk about how expensive digital is. And yet...how
much do SLR people spend on film?

I don't think the cost comparison is so simple. I shot over 6000
shots in the 2 years I owned a Fuji 1400z. How much would that have
cost me to buy the film for all those, much less develop them?

--
6900

 

[ianR]

Hello batty, thoroughly nice to hear from you again.

Funny you should say about conversion. I saw a book on the coffe table last time I visited which was a guide to digital photography. I suspect he'll be getting one.

On another forum someone adds this line to their signature and I think it's appropriate:

If you buy a good camera, you must be a good photographer. If you buy a flute, you own a flute.
Take care
Ian

As usual, you do post a lot of common sense.

It was nice of Leo to make the original post, 'though.

Thank you, Leo.

Certainly makes my one remaining braincell jump up and down with a
plea for work.

If any 'professional' person is happy to continue with film, then
so be it — but they aught to be aware of what they might be
missing, through shunning the likes of the 602.

The 602 is as good as any tool, and much better than a lot, it
really depends upon who is using it — I've known the owner of a
£6,000 (sorta $12,000) Lie Nielson smoothing plane make nothing but
hamster bedding, out of nice pieces of hardwood; if you think that
photography could become a very expensive hobby - just try
woodworking.

Anyway, IanR, have you converted all of those neanderthal Nikon
film users to Fuji digital?

I hope not, because if everyone knew how relatively easy it can be
to produce excellent pictures, the bottom would fall out of the
market.

--
batty.

There's all this talk about how expensive digital is. And yet...how
much do SLR people spend on film?

I don't think the cost comparison is so simple. I shot over 6000
shots in the 2 years I owned a Fuji 1400z. How much would that have
cost me to buy the film for all those, much less develop them?

--
6900

--
6900

 

[batty66824]

The man is a snob.
To judge a tool, any tool, without considering your abilities and
final product is just plain ignorant. Many photographic "artists"

Your friend does not crop? Another sure sign of being a total snob.
I crop to whatever ratio is best for my composition. Limiting
myself to the manufacturer specified film ratio is just plain dumb.

I agree i bet this so called proffesional artist would snob any
digital camera....film users are often stubborn and refuse to
accept that digial cameras in some cases take a photo as good as a
35m camera

sorry leo but this person is a classic snob!

But maybe, a superb artist?

Who knows, I've met my fair share of ignorant bigots in my day, who strangely, could be also wonderful people to know.

Little mental blocks about equipment are not a sure-fire way of judging people's worth.

--
batty.

 

[Madness]

--
'Mind over matter....if you don't mind the pain then it don't matter...'
------------------------------------------------------------
http://members.lycos.co.uk/insanityphotos/