Olympus C-5050 Review on Dpreview!!!

I agree: I think Phil uses default settings for his tests, which in one way is the most fair thing to do.

On the other hand, I'd love to see a comparison of the best the cameras could do. For instance, using RAW and opening with the Oly PS plugin instead of Camedia. I'm sure the results for the 5050 would be great.

I think, despite "only" getting a recommended, it was a very good review and Phil seemed to really like the camera.

The main problem is I'm beginning to feel compelled to upgrade my backup camera from my 2020 to this and I really can't afford it.
James
Only 'Recommended'

He probably made all tests with sharpening set to 0, which would
explain the noise and the jaggies.

--

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Olympus4040_5050/
http://www.molon.de/Galleries.htm
 
I think it was a pretty good review overall, they did give it a 9/10. Makes me wanan go out and pick one up (if i had enough $$). Looks like a good camera compared to the 4500 and G3. Maybe my 2100 will have a sister camera one day soon =].

--
Mike
 
CA is the result of the lens, but the complaint that Phil had really isn't CA, it is blooming.

Blooming occurs when a photosite on a CCD completely saturates in other words goes to white and the adjacent photosites are still dark. When a photosite completely saturates the CCD must do something with the excess charge. So on the CCD there are "electronic gutters" that carry the charge off the chip. However, these gutters can only carry so much charge. When they can carry no more, the charge floods into adjacent photosites and causes blooming or more commonly known as purple fringing. The chip that is used on this camera has a very high pixel density. In other words it's a small chip with a heck of a lot of pixels. And because of this the "gutters" are very small and not able to deal with excessive charges.

You are right in that this is a hardware issue and cannot be fixed by a firmware up date, but the problem actually lies in the CCD and not the lens.

Now there is one way to prevent the purple fringing and that is to use a very small aperture like f7 or f8. This slows the rate at which the photosites recieve the charge and therefore make it possible for the "gutters" to do their job.
I do believe that CA is the result of the lens, and not the CCD. I
don't know too much about it myself but read lots of posts by the
experts here and that is what comes up over and over again. At any
rate though, it is a hardware issue and won't be cured within a
model line via a firmware upgrade or something like that. Even
subsequent models that use the same lens usually have the sames
issues since it is a lens problem, and not CCD.

Kiran

--

 
I notice that Phil did try to change F stops , but the results does not differ?
CA is the result of the lens, but the complaint that Phil had
really isn't CA, it is blooming.

Blooming occurs when a photosite on a CCD completely saturates in
other words goes to white and the adjacent photosites are still
dark. When a photosite completely saturates the CCD must do
something with the excess charge. So on the CCD there are
"electronic gutters" that carry the charge off the chip. However,
these gutters can only carry so much charge. When they can carry
no more, the charge floods into adjacent photosites and causes
blooming or more commonly known as purple fringing. The chip that
is used on this camera has a very high pixel density. In other
words it's a small chip with a heck of a lot of pixels. And
because of this the "gutters" are very small and not able to deal
with excessive charges.

You are right in that this is a hardware issue and cannot be fixed
by a firmware up date, but the problem actually lies in the CCD and
not the lens.

Now there is one way to prevent the purple fringing and that is to
use a very small aperture like f7 or f8. This slows the rate at
which the photosites recieve the charge and therefore make it
possible for the "gutters" to do their job.
--



Olympus..C21OOUZ since 28/1/02 A-2OO tele, Oly P-4OO ..
HP97OCxi ZI0_USB Sanyo16OO Manfrotto 19ODB+141RC
My mini gallery http://www.sigma-sa.com/kt/pelion/index.htm
' My primary language is Greek '
 
It appears the "highly recommended" G3 ( that's the camera that has
its viewfinder partially obstructed by the lens barrel) has its
share of problems with color fringing, CA and "blue snow" - check
out this thread:
I hadn't made up my mind between the G3 and the 5050. When I went and looked at the G3, that barrel issue is a deal killer for me. How Canon quality control let this get by is beyond me.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=4156232

Bob
http://www.pbase.com/caseus
Looks like he feels it's a good camera. Amazing resolution. Battery
life outperforms any previous Olycam (and plenty of others). Off to
read the rest of it...

Thanks to Phil for the great review :-)
 
Well, he changed the f-stops in the foil test. It would have been interesting to see what f stop he used in the outdoor picture sample.
CA is the result of the lens, but the complaint that Phil had
really isn't CA, it is blooming.

Blooming occurs when a photosite on a CCD completely saturates in
other words goes to white and the adjacent photosites are still
dark. When a photosite completely saturates the CCD must do
something with the excess charge. So on the CCD there are
"electronic gutters" that carry the charge off the chip. However,
these gutters can only carry so much charge. When they can carry
no more, the charge floods into adjacent photosites and causes
blooming or more commonly known as purple fringing. The chip that
is used on this camera has a very high pixel density. In other
words it's a small chip with a heck of a lot of pixels. And
because of this the "gutters" are very small and not able to deal
with excessive charges.

You are right in that this is a hardware issue and cannot be fixed
by a firmware up date, but the problem actually lies in the CCD and
not the lens.

Now there is one way to prevent the purple fringing and that is to
use a very small aperture like f7 or f8. This slows the rate at
which the photosites recieve the charge and therefore make it
possible for the "gutters" to do their job.
--



Olympus..C21OOUZ since 28/1/02 A-2OO tele, Oly P-4OO ..
HP97OCxi ZI0_USB Sanyo16OO Manfrotto 19ODB+141RC
My mini gallery http://www.sigma-sa.com/kt/pelion/index.htm
' My primary language is Greek '
 
It's interesting to view the gallery. All the images have extremely well shot and the noise factor so often discussed is not showing (at least in first glance). I was quite impressed by the whole gallery.

Overall I agree it's a pretty good review.
 
Images posted by Phil don't look great. The blues are too blue. There is a lot of noise. Hair strands look awful - its as their edges are filled with spikes.

The great resolution really took me by surprise tho considering that other Olympus cameras never had great resolution but great color.

I would definitely not recommend that camera despite its superb resolution.

-jeff
happy owner of Olympus 3000Z
 
Overall, I think this was a very fair review and the way I read it the conclusion was extremely positive--I would think the fact that the resolution matched the vaunted 717s would raise more than a few eyebrows among those who expected little from the "same old lens" and a an supposedly overcrowded ccd. Factoring in the price of this camera only makes it look like a better value.

I was surprised however that Phil didn't really shed light on the "aggressive default in-camera sharpening vs. noise" issue. He admits that the default sharpening is too aggressive and states his preference for a setting of -2. But it appears the noise tests are done with sharpening at 0. I would have liked to see the "noise" test done at different levels of sharpening. The point, as someone mentioned above, is to see how the camera performs at it's optimal settings. And of course if I am comparing across camera's I want to see how they compare at their optimal settings--the mere fact that I can adjust the settings makes the deafult limitations irrelevant. I realize this just adds to the reviewer's time burden, but it seems pretty simple to do I'm disappointed this reveiw didn't clear it up.

As for CA, I guess it's just less of a problem for me in practice. I have yet to attempt to portray aluminum foil in my shots so maybe I just have a different preference in subjects from some of you. But seriously, after taking probably 20,000 pictures with a C3040, c2100 and now the c5050 (all cameras with perhaps above average propensity to show the purple fringing whether it's technically "CA" or "blooming"), I can honestly say that it has yet to ruin a really high quality picture of mine. It does show up in many pictures that are over-exposed or try to capture scenes too high in contrast. But to my eyes, these are pictures that suffer from flaws in composition and or exposure, anyway, and the purple fringe is but a symptom of that. Anyway, if you take a great shot and you get too much for your tastes there are several very easy ways to correct for it. In fact, I often find that pictures with a lot of purple fringing tend to look much better in B&W than in color anyway because of the areas of extreme contrast. Also the amount of frining in a printed picture is much, much less noticeable than the 100% or 2000% screen view.

One last observation. The acid test of any camera's picture quality has to be prints rather than 100% screen enlargements. Many of the imperfections you see at 72 dpi are simply not visible at 300dpi. It is impossible to show print quailty in an online review, but I'd at least like to hear the reviewers opinion of the same size prints of identical scenes from a single printer across camera. My experience using an Epson 1280 is that the 5050 makes excellent prints--I've done up to 11x14, so far. They are very sharp; color is very good and I just haven't seen any p[roblem with noise (especially since much of the "noise", I believe, is in fact, sharpening artifacts which always look worse on screen than in the print because the appearance of oversharpening compensates for the softness induced by the digital printing process).

Anyone who wants to see what good pictures from the 5050 look like in actual use rather than contrived test shots is wlecome to check out mine (alebit in 800x600 size) on pbase:
http://www.pbase.com/jfeinleib/olympus_c5050_samples

In sum, I find it hard to believe that anyone who pays $700-800 for this camera will be disappointed with the quality of pictures it can produce to say nothing of how much a pleasure it is to actually operate.

http://www.pbase.com/jfeinleib
http://www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=23754
 
That is an absurd and utterly misleading example. I actually own a 5050 and a good printer and I have never seen such a lousy print; and I certainly not impressed with a scan of a blow up of a print. The prints I have made up to 11x14 have been excellent. I mean if you realy believe there is no difference in what you see between 72 dpi on a computer screen and a 300 dpi printout you are really cracked.

I don't know what kind of baby alligator crawled out of the sewer and up your ass over this camera but it has frankly become quite boring and when you flat out misrepresent reality, bothersome.

--
http://www.pbase.com/jfeinleib
http://www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=23754
 
Joel;

your posting is putting some sense to a topic that comes up everytime a review is posted:

How will you see a photo? on screen in reduced size? at a print and how large? How often will one run into the limitations of a given camera? What is (more) decicive, the picture it self or the techinical quality of it? But also why do you choose a certain camera? is it CA only? I did choose for a canon s45 over the c5050 because of its compactness, yes I would have loved supermacro... or the ability to put a flash on top or, or, or... but the s45 iis carried everywere all the time, buy the way results are very good and probably in the way i get my end results, nobody even I, will see the difference with any other recent 4 or 5 MP camera. for an a4 print it is tag sharp, at my website I have to reduce them to 800*600 or 600*450 anyway... The way you use the camera and how you show the end results will decide what camera is the one you will need/love...

so for a lot of people this review should have stated "highly recommended"

Jan Willem

--
greatings to you all!
some of my photo's at:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jwmars
 
What's interesting is when you compare those links you've listed below, with these links from the c5050z review:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympusc5050z/page18.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympusc5050z/page19.asp

So if the G2 smoked the c4040, by comparison, the c5050 should rightfully smoke both the Canon G3 and the Sony DSC-F717? Both of which are more expensive contemporaries.

There is some incongruity here.

K.
Actually, it seems the opposite is true...the 4040 was smoked by
the Canon in Phil's tests:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong2/page18.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong2/page19.asp
 
IMHO, Jared's findings have been so far, and unless proven otherwise, are always misleading. Funny that his "300 dpi" images are grainy even on a 72 dpi RGB monitor.

He routinely doctors up images in his comparisons of cameras to prove his point, rather than provide straight examples. Downsampling, Upsampling, blowing up, sharpening pretty much as he decides.

In this example which he has provided, I believe he blew up the photograph a few hundred percent, then printed it out at 300 DPI, rather than printing it at 100% actual size.

He doesn't acknowledge (or perhaps he doesn't understand?) the fact that if you take a 5 MP image, crop a small portion and blow it up so that the resulting image is at say 50 dpi resolution.. even if he printed it on a 12,000 dpi printer, the resulting image is STILL at 50 dpi.

Wonderful work, Einstein.

K.
How do 5050 photos look when printed with respect to the jaggies
mentioned in the review?
What you see on the monitor is what you get on the printout.
Today's high resolution printers resolve enough detail that all
image flaws like CA and jaggies are faithfully reproduced.

Example scan of 5050 printout:

http://www.pbase.com/image/7937152/original
 
Printing is really good on 8R size but i only did that for 1 shot till now. Can't afford it.

Sometimes i think all the talk about noise and jaggies only comes up when you do an A/B critical comparison done with a magnifying glass. It's similar to audio/hifi hardware and the music enjoyment itself. Dissecting the music/picture too much only ruins overall enjoyment. Unless you are a professional but then you should be using pro equipment.
How do 5050 photos look when printed with respect to the jaggies
mentioned in the review?
I've had prints done from ezprints.com at 16X20 and they are
amazing. IMHO all of the talk about jaggies and artifacts are OK
if you are going to view the image at 2 or 3 times its actual size,
but when you view them at full size, or have them printed, the
quality is outstanding. I would be very curious to see how many
people have actually had 16X20 or larger prints done...for me that
it where the real tale is told. It really matters what you are
going to do with the images.
 
What's interesting is when you compare those links you've listed
below, with these links from the c5050z review:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympusc5050z/page18.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympusc5050z/page19.asp

So if the G2 smoked the c4040, by comparison, the c5050 should
rightfully smoke both the Canon G3 and the Sony DSC-F717? Both of
which are more expensive contemporaries.

There is some incongruity here.
Mmmm, well, I looked at both those links, and as Phil points out the C5050 probably has the best resolution, and perhaps even the best color balance, but it also clearly exhibits more noise, jaggies and moire than the Sony and Canon.

In my opinion, the Canon G3 does exceptionally well in that test (very good resolution for a 4mp compared to 5mp) and noise is very well controlled.

--
Greg
http://www.pbase.com/gregn67
c730uz
 
It's interesting to view the gallery. All the images have
extremely well shot and the noise factor so often discussed is not
showing (at least in first glance). I was quite impressed by the
whole gallery.
To see an example of two of the problems Phil pointed out:

Look at sample pic 030104-1311-42.jpg, at original size.
(This is pic 10 of 17)

Now look at all the shadowed (darker) areas, mainly to the left side of the pic (-> noise).

Then look at the pylon at the right side of the pic where the light is coming through (-> CA).
This one looks like a pic from my c730uz, just at a better resolution.

--
Greg
http://www.pbase.com/gregn67
c730uz
 

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