Ad bans - not really consistent yet, but just wait...

[Gordon W]

Yeah, a year ago was before my time, Earl, so thanks for the history.

Interesting that Phil didn't go for a classified section since that would solve the problem as well as be a revenue source for him, assuming he would charge by the ad (which is what I would expect) and would certainly more than cover his costs and turn a profit for him if done properly.

Maybe he'll do this eventually.

Gordon

About a year or so ago, Phil surveyed the general group of posters.
His survey was in response to several requests for a classified
section. (Mine included). The overwhelming majority of the
responses were in favor of the suggestion. That's all that
happened...Phil never reacted to his query, one way or another.

Earl

--
Sony F707 & Nikon CP990 owner, pbase supporter.



ONE OF THE GREAT MYSTERIES OF LIFE
Why do ketchup makers pride themselves on the thickness of
their product and then put it in a glass bottle with an opening
too small to pour it?

 

[Gordon W]

Gordon,
I hear what you're saying. When Peter responded to the posting that
way he was "selling" his ebook, no doubt. The only way he could
have complied with the rule is to have mentioned another source or
two in addition to his ebook as to where the information could be
found.

Interesting thought, Dan, but I don't see how Peter can participate in this forum in any manner under his own name without it profiting him. Everyone knows who he is and what he wants from us.

It would lose a lot of its impact if he logged in under a screen name and for all appearances was just another anonymous STFer where he could say what he wanted about the book and no one would give his opinion any more weight than yours or mine. This would inherently be fair and I wouldn't have as much a problem with this except it would involve deceit which I also detest.

So to play by the rules as Phil states them, I simply don't see how Peter can participate in this forum under any circumstances without there being a conflict of interests and breaking the rules or other ethical issues becoming involved.

None of this really bothered me until the issue with Eric came up. But what applied to Eric should apply to everyone who posts here.

Craig's thought of having a separate ad site would be another load
on Phil. There would be constant squabbles between buyers and
sellers. Maybe the way to go is the way it is now, have a rule and
hope that posters will police themselves.

I wonder what Mr. Stacey would do?

Wouldn't that be interesting? How about it, Mr S? What's the answer? ;-)

Gordon
--
Sony F707 & Nikon CP990 owner, pbase supporter.



ONE OF THE GREAT MYSTERIES OF LIFE
Why do ketchup makers pride themselves on the thickness of
their product and then put it in a glass bottle with an opening
too small to pour it?

 

[Suave]

Perhaps the fact that Phil is living in Britain and most of the posters seem to be North Americans presents certain logistical problems for the creation of charge-by-post forum?

Interesting that Phil didn't go for a classified section since that
would solve the problem as well as be a revenue source for him,
assuming he would charge by the ad (which is what I would expect)
and would certainly more than cover his costs and turn a profit for
him if done properly.

Maybe he'll do this eventually.

Gordon

About a year or so ago, Phil surveyed the general group of posters.
His survey was in response to several requests for a classified
section. (Mine included). The overwhelming majority of the
responses were in favor of the suggestion. That's all that
happened...Phil never reacted to his query, one way or another.

Earl

--
Sony F707 & Nikon CP990 owner, pbase supporter.



ONE OF THE GREAT MYSTERIES OF LIFE
Why do ketchup makers pride themselves on the thickness of
their product and then put it in a glass bottle with an opening
too small to pour it?

 

[Shay Stephens]

So to play by the rules as Phil states them, I simply don't see how
Peter can participate in this forum under any circumstances without
there being a conflict of interests and breaking the rules or other
ethical issues becoming involved.

But Peyer is playing by the rules, he pays Phil for add space which shows up here on the forum at regualr intervals. If he were promoting the book without running the ad, he would be banned no doubt.

--
Shay

My Sony F707 & F717 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp
My F717 Observations: http://www.shaystephens.com/f717.asp

 

[Shay Stephens]

This is the ad he runs here in the forum:



--
Shay

My Sony F707 & F717 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp
My F717 Observations: http://www.shaystephens.com/f717.asp

 

[Suave]

I wonder what Mr. Stacey would do?

What do you mean? Have not you seen "for sale" sign in all his posts?

 

[earub]

Interesting that Phil didn't go for a classified section since that
would solve the problem as well as be a revenue source for him,
assuming he would charge by the ad (which is what I would expect)
and would certainly more than cover his costs and turn a profit for
him if done properly.

Maybe he'll do this eventually.

Gordon

About a year or so ago, Phil surveyed the general group of posters.
His survey was in response to several requests for a classified
section. (Mine included). The overwhelming majority of the
responses were in favor of the suggestion. That's all that
happened...Phil never reacted to his query, one way or another.

Earl

--
Sony F707 & Nikon CP990 owner, pbase supporter.



ONE OF THE GREAT MYSTERIES OF LIFE
Why do ketchup makers pride themselves on the thickness of
their product and then put it in a glass bottle with an opening
too small to pour it?

suave, I don't think it would be difficult to setup an account in North America...He obviously manages to get funds from his American advertisers...
--
Earl

 

[DanOB]

I wonder what Mr. Stacey would do?

What do you mean? Have not you seen "for sale" sign in all his posts?

 

[Peter iNova]

Gordon,
I hear what you're saying. When Peter responded to the posting that
way he was "selling" his ebook, no doubt. The only way he could
have complied with the rule is to have mentioned another source or
two in addition to his ebook as to where the information could be
found.

Interesting thought, Dan, but I don't see how Peter can participate
in this forum in any manner under his own name without it profiting
him. Everyone knows who he is and what he wants from us.

It would lose a lot of its impact if he logged in under a screen
name and for all appearances was just another anonymous STFer where
he could say what he wanted about the book and no one would give
his opinion any more weight than yours or mine. This would
inherently be fair and I wouldn't have as much a problem with this
except it would involve deceit which I also detest.

So to play by the rules as Phil states them, I simply don't see how
Peter can participate in this forum under any circumstances without
there being a conflict of interests and breaking the rules or other
ethical issues becoming involved.

None of this really bothered me until the issue with Eric came up.
But what applied to Eric should apply to everyone who posts here.

I believe that it is one thing to arrive here and say "Howdy. Buy my X." versus showing up here and saying "I'll answer your question, further your understanding and note that here is something I'm intimately involved with that can take you even further than this."

It surprises me to see folks claiming that I only am here to serve myself. My first post on the Sony Talk Forum was August 31, 1999--years before the eBook idea was started, and years before I got a Sony camera.

I've spent more time on the Nikon Forum simply because I had the gear and knew about it longer.

I'm glad to share insights and information with people if it is helpful and furthers their understanding of digital photography or the camera or technique in question.

One person noted that I said, "It's (whatever the topic was) in the eBook." as if this was a blatant ad for the eBook. Please find that post. I think the topic was--in its context--too big to simply post into these pages or had some logical tie to the way that was phrased. Ten page posts here best served by swerving somebody to the source rather than tying up DPReview's bandwidth.

When people order the eBook via the banners that appear here, they pay the owner of this site directly. A considerable part of the gross price of the eBook goes directly to DPReview and I have always urged people who want it to acquire it that way.

Phil does us all a service by hosting this forum and the others, and the advertising here is the way everybody wins. Some of them appeal directly to your particular interest of the moment, and when you are looking for a specific thing and there it is in the ad, you hardly feel like the ad is an intrusion. One man's resource is another man's environmental graphic, in a way.

I don't have a shelf full of other people's books on the products I write about. So the person who suggests that I should refer folks to that-which-I-do-not-have has proposed a logical conundrum.

I know that another author wrote a book about the 707 and perhaps 717, and I know that he bought my Nikon eBook many months before deciding he would create eBooks, too, which copy my original technique of providing them in several resolutions as a kindness for different computer systems. I consider that a bit of plagiarism and am not disposed to point folks in his direction. And since I don't have his works, I really can't comment on them either way, but I do take the high road and mention his site with a live link in the eBook interactive Appendix.

By not collecting other people's works, I place myself above any criticism of plagiarism in a technical sense, and that apparently works against me when I fail to point people toward my competitors. So be it. So let me correct that flaw right here, right now:

Attention: Hey, there's a world out there!

I also buy my equipment on the open market so I can say anything about them that strikes me in a good or bad way. And anybody who has read my stuff knows that I don't think any piece of gear is perfect.

Sony was nice enough to lend me a 717 before they made it into stores so the Sony eBook would include details about it, but it went back before the eBook came out. The one in my camera bag was purchased at Fry's in Burbank. I'm not a secret agent for Nikon or Sony, though I find that both company's make outstanding gear.

When I post here, I'm far more interested in saying what I believe in and what I know to be true than pushing people into my store. But it IS there, and it DOES have a bunch of things most 707/717 camera owners seem to be interested in. And I will continue to be me.

Oddly enough, about two years ago, somebody on one of the forums really decided that I was posting rave reviews about the Nikon eBook by using a bunch of bogus nicknames and fake accounts. In his mind, it simply could NOT be that good.

I wonder if that person is represented in the run up to this topic? Naah. Too paranoid. ;-)

-iNova

Craig's thought of having a separate ad site would be another load
on Phil. There would be constant squabbles between buyers and
sellers. Maybe the way to go is the way it is now, have a rule and
hope that posters will police themselves.

I wonder what Mr. Stacey would do?

Wouldn't that be interesting? How about it, Mr S? What's the
answer? ;-)

Gordon
--
Sony F707 & Nikon CP990 owner, pbase supporter.



ONE OF THE GREAT MYSTERIES OF LIFE
Why do ketchup makers pride themselves on the thickness of
their product and then put it in a glass bottle with an opening
too small to pour it?

--
http://www.itssony.com

 

[Gordon W]

Thanks for the reply, Peter, and the explanation but with all respect I don't really see how any of it changes the fact that you profit from your activities in this forum which is against the rules as I've read them. Phil obviously must bend them in your case, but Phil's rules are just that and if Phil himself were to break them it would make him a hypocrite unless he changed them first. Nor have I seen anywhere that he's said you have the freedom to do what none of the rest of us can, other than by his silence. If I missed this somewhere along the way, I apologize.

But I haven't read in his rules where people and products that assist in his support are exempt from the rules. If he changes them to read that way, it is certainly his prerogative but this wasn't the case the last I looked and what was bad for Eric should be bad for everyone.

Until Eric sinned, his contributions to the forum were without ulterior motive. Call me a cynic, but I can't imagine any regular STF member who would think you'd be spending your time here if you didn't have a relevant product to sell.

I think if there’s some special agreement between you and Phil it should be made known that the rules don’t apply to you, only to the rest of us.

Otherwise, I stand by the opinions I’ve expressed so far in this thread. Hopefully, I didn’t break any of the rules in doing so.

Respectfully,
Gordon W

I believe that it is one thing to arrive here and say "Howdy. Buy
my X." versus showing up here and saying "I'll answer your
question, further your understanding and note that here is
something I'm intimately involved with that can take you even
further than this."

It surprises me to see folks claiming that I only am here to serve
myself. My first post on the Sony Talk Forum was August 31,
1999--years before the eBook idea was started, and years before I
got a Sony camera.

I've spent more time on the Nikon Forum simply because I had the
gear and knew about it longer.

I'm glad to share insights and information with people if it is
helpful and furthers their understanding of digital photography or
the camera or technique in question.

One person noted that I said, "It's (whatever the topic was) in the
eBook." as if this was a blatant ad for the eBook. Please find that
post. I think the topic was--in its context--too big to simply post
into these pages or had some logical tie to the way that was
phrased. Ten page posts here best served by swerving somebody to
the source rather than tying up DPReview's bandwidth.

When people order the eBook via the banners that appear here, they
pay the owner of this site directly. A considerable part of the
gross price of the eBook goes directly to DPReview and I have
always urged people who want it to acquire it that way.

Phil does us all a service by hosting this forum and the others,
and the advertising here is the way everybody wins. Some of them
appeal directly to your particular interest of the moment, and when
you are looking for a specific thing and there it is in the ad, you
hardly feel like the ad is an intrusion. One man's resource is
another man's environmental graphic, in a way.

I don't have a shelf full of other people's books on the products I
write about. So the person who suggests that I should refer folks
to that-which-I-do-not-have has proposed a logical conundrum.

I know that another author wrote a book about the 707 and perhaps
717, and I know that he bought my Nikon eBook many months before
deciding he would create eBooks, too, which copy my original
technique of providing them in several resolutions as a kindness
for different computer systems. I consider that a bit of plagiarism
and am not disposed to point folks in his direction. And since I
don't have his works, I really can't comment on them either way,
but I do take the high road and mention his site with a live link
in the eBook interactive Appendix.

By not collecting other people's works, I place myself above any
criticism of plagiarism in a technical sense, and that apparently
works against me when I fail to point people toward my competitors.
So be it. So let me correct that flaw right here, right now:

Attention: Hey, there's a world out there!

I also buy my equipment on the open market so I can say anything
about them that strikes me in a good or bad way. And anybody who
has read my stuff knows that I don't think any piece of gear is
perfect.

Sony was nice enough to lend me a 717 before they made it into
stores so the Sony eBook would include details about it, but it
went back before the eBook came out. The one in my camera bag was
purchased at Fry's in Burbank. I'm not a secret agent for Nikon or
Sony, though I find that both company's make outstanding gear.

When I post here, I'm far more interested in saying what I believe
in and what I know to be true than pushing people into my store.
But it IS there, and it DOES have a bunch of things most 707/717
camera owners seem to be interested in. And I will continue to be
me.

Oddly enough, about two years ago, somebody on one of the forums
really decided that I was posting rave reviews about the Nikon
eBook by using a bunch of bogus nicknames and fake accounts. In his
mind, it simply could NOT be that good.

I wonder if that person is represented in the run up to this topic?
Naah. Too paranoid. ;-)

-iNova

--
Sony F707 & Nikon CP990 owner, pbase supporter.



ONE OF THE GREAT MYSTERIES OF LIFE
Why do ketchup makers pride themselves on the thickness of
their product and then put it in a glass bottle with an opening
too small to pour it?

 

[Gordon W]

But Peyer is playing by the rules, he pays Phil for add space which
shows up here on the forum at regualr intervals. If he were
promoting the book without running the ad, he would be banned no
doubt.

So you're saying that anyone who pays Phil for ad space is exempt from the forum rules that apply to the rest of us?

I can't see how he could allow that or the forums would be full of promotions from dpreview advertisers. With all respect, Shay, I've never read the rules to mean this.

I'm not trying to rock the boat here or cause Phil grief, but it amazes me that someone like Eric could be banned for the reasons given while Peter has carte blanche. This is all I'm saying and I haven't yet seen a plausible justification.

Respectfully,
Gordon
--
Sony F707 & Nikon CP990 owner, pbase supporter.



ONE OF THE GREAT MYSTERIES OF LIFE
Why do ketchup makers pride themselves on the thickness of
their product and then put it in a glass bottle with an opening
too small to pour it?

 

[Suave]

I believe that it is one thing to arrive here and say "Howdy. Buy
my X." versus showing up here and saying "I'll answer your
question, further your understanding and note that here is
something I'm intimately involved with that can take you even
further than this."

I tend to believe that these thing are closer than you think. I'm not saying it's wrong, on the contrary, but the whole discussion revolves around the fact that this kind promotion may be construed as unethical. It may not be so in your mind because you in fact pay for the advertising space but it nevertheless is.

It surprises me to see folks claiming that I only am here to serve
myself. My first post on the Sony Talk Forum was August 31,
1999--years before the eBook idea was started, and years before I
got a Sony camera.

That's not exactly what was said, what was said that every post you make on e-book related matter eventually has an appearance of promoting it. Also, what you did three years ago has absolutely no relation to this moment. Especially because you did not have an e-book then.

When people order the eBook via the banners that appear here, they
pay the owner of this site directly. A considerable part of the
gross price of the eBook goes directly to DPReview and I have
always urged people who want it to acquire it that way.

If you have some special arrangement with Phil, then I think we deserve to know that some people are more equal here.

I know that another author wrote a book about the 707 and perhaps
717, and I know that he bought my Nikon eBook many months before
deciding he would create eBooks, too, which copy my original
technique of providing them in several resolutions as a kindness
for different computer systems. I consider that a bit of plagiarism
and am not disposed to point folks in his direction. And since I
don't have his works, I really can't comment on them either way,
but I do take the high road and mention his site with a live link
in the eBook interactive Appendix.

Are referring to Dennis Curtin's books? I'd like to know.

When I post here, I'm far more interested in saying what I believe
in and what I know to be true than pushing people into my store.
But it IS there, and it DOES have a bunch of things most 707/717
camera owners seem to be interested in. And I will continue to be
me.

And here lies the problem - you may be doing a great job helping people, and I think you are, but the things are never what they are, they're only what they appear to be.

 

[Peter iNova]

Thanks for the reply, Peter, and the explanation but with all
respect I don't really see how any of it changes the fact that you
profit from your activities in this forum which is against the
rules as I've read them.

If I tell you something here that helps you with a picture, or concept, or technique, or problem, it is YOU who profit by that. I already knew it. So forget everything I've said, never use any idea I've mentioned, and for God's sake, don't ever get an eBook. ;-)

-iNova
--
http://www.itssony.com

 

[pdqgp]

Not directed at you specifically Gordaon, but rather anyone with the same 'beef'

Yes, there is prolly some special 'oversight' by Phil for Peter. Who cares? It's not our business and he doesn't have to inform anyone. That would cause more grief than allowing it. Phil gets perks too I'm sure. Ever notice how he rarely posts a review that slams a camera or says don't buy it? He's very fair and scientific don't take the above the wrong way. My point being, yes, he probably cuts him some slack...as I would and think he should.

We all should. How many folks here put there site up showing prints for sale? or plug themselves in hopes that someone may make an offer to them? or just plain get discovered?

There's a motive behind most everything. Relax already. I plug Peter's book more than he does and it's because it's really good. My motive...to help someone....secret motive, perhaps it just makes me feel good that if someone gets it and it brings them joy, they may actually remember me when they tell their family how the day went. Who knows...who cares.

tim

But Peyer is playing by the rules, he pays Phil for add space which
shows up here on the forum at regualr intervals. If he were
promoting the book without running the ad, he would be banned no
doubt.

So you're saying that anyone who pays Phil for ad space is exempt
from the forum rules that apply to the rest of us?

I can't see how he could allow that or the forums would be full of
promotions from dpreview advertisers. With all respect, Shay, I've
never read the rules to mean this.

I'm not trying to rock the boat here or cause Phil grief, but it
amazes me that someone like Eric could be banned for the reasons
given while Peter has carte blanche. This is all I'm saying and I
haven't yet seen a plausible justification.

Respectfully,
Gordon
--
Sony F707 & Nikon CP990 owner, pbase supporter.



ONE OF THE GREAT MYSTERIES OF LIFE
Why do ketchup makers pride themselves on the thickness of
their product and then put it in a glass bottle with an opening
too small to pour it?

--
-tim
Sony 717, Nikon 995 & Konica KD400Z
Accessories....tons of course
pbase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/pdqgp

 

[Me Mine]

Peter iNova:

So, the other author actually "stole" your idea of providing multiple resolutions? Isn't this obvious and hasn't this been used elsewhere for ages as well?

Also, copying an idea is NOT plagiarizing. Plagiarizing is copying the expression of an idea.

Copyright laws do not protect ideas themselves, so if you want to protect an idea, you need to obtain a patent on it.

M.M.

 

[Gordon W]

If I tell you something here that helps you with a picture, or
concept, or technique, or problem, it is YOU who profit by that.
I already knew it.
So forget everything I've said, never use any idea I've mentioned

I really don't want to belabor this because I've said all I have to say on the subject, but your comment here has nothing to do with the point of what I originally said.

and for God's sake, don't ever get an eBook. ;-)

Well, speaking for myself as one who's been burnt all too often in the past by buying things without actually seeing them first, until you start marketing through normal channels where I'm likely to actually see one of your ebooks and determine if it has enough value for the money for me, there's very little likelihood that I ever will get one. I suspect though that by distributing through normal channels you'd make far less on each one than you do currently and so there's little chance of this happening.

Personally, I think it might be a good time for Phil to reevaluate some of his policies since the situation with Eric seems to have exposed an inconsistency or two and the fact Eric was reinstated doesn't really change that. it seems a few of the folks are a bit confused about what is acceptable to post and what isn't. I'm certainly confused.

Best to you, Peter.

Gordon
--
Sony F707 & Nikon CP990 owner, pbase supporter.



ONE OF THE GREAT MYSTERIES OF LIFE
Why do ketchup makers pride themselves on the thickness of
their product and then put it in a glass bottle with an opening
too small to pour it?

 

[Peter iNova]

I believe that it is one thing to arrive here and say "Howdy. Buy
my X." versus showing up here and saying "I'll answer your
question, further your understanding and note that here is
something I'm intimately involved with that can take you even
further than this."

I tend to believe that these thing are closer than you think. I'm
not saying it's wrong, on the contrary, but the whole discussion
revolves around the fact that this kind promotion may be construed
as unethical. It may not be so in your mind because you in fact
pay for the advertising space but it nevertheless is.

Egad. Un ethical? What ethic are you referring to? Is there an eleventh commandment against mentioning "that which I know," and "that which I know to be true and helpful," simply because I wrote about it and the thing that carries the writing costs money?

Perhaps we should condemn National Public Radio for interviewing authors in their programs because that's blatant advertising of the author's work and outside the not-for-profit business laws under which such organizations are legally chartered.

Or, maybe it's "news."

Just because there is an eBook in my life, and hopefully yours, doesn't mean that because this or that idea exists in it, it isn't news, or that pointing to it loses its newsworthiness*.

It surprises me to see folks claiming that I only am here to serve
myself. My first post on the Sony Talk Forum was August 31,
1999--years before the eBook idea was started, and years before I
got a Sony camera.

That's not exactly what was said, what was said that every post you
make on e-book related matter eventually has an appearance of
promoting it. Also, what you did three years ago has absolutely no
relation to this moment. Especially because you did not have an
e-book then.

Someone here said I only appeared here to be self-promoting. The reference to the pre-date post rather flattens that as a premis for other things based on it. I didn't count the number of posts to STF before I got a camera but it probably was more than you might guess.

I posted literally thousands of messages on these forums long before there were any eBooks, and I don't show up here with ads for the eBook in these messages.

But since you mention it, here is some historical truth about them: I started coming to DPReview in May of 1999. It was because of people's questions here that the idea of the eBook took shape. I've written articles here that appear in the "Learning" section, and a click on the upper left menu will take you to them.

The Sony eBook is the second in a planned series. It shares things with the Nikon eBook but improves on nearly every aspect of that project up until Version 5 of the Nikon eBook appeared early in December 2002. Sony eBook owners got a number of new Photoshop Actions included with their CD that Nikon owners had to wait months for.

I believe in the cameras I write about or I wouldn't write about them. But life is short and it takes a heck of a lot of work to produce these things. Thousands of hours each.

People seem to like them, though. One thread claimed that the Sony eBook doubled the value of your camera. I wish I could find that one so I could quote it more accurately.

The above and below are my opinions or facts as I know them. And thanks for raising the topic.

When people order the eBook via the banners that appear here, they
pay the owner of this site directly. A considerable part of the
gross price of the eBook goes directly to DPReview and I have
always urged people who want it to acquire it that way.

If you have some special arrangement with Phil, then I think we
deserve to know that some people are more equal here.

What equality are you talking about? I AM an author. It's what I do. It's about the topic under discussion here. Other authors who have things to contribute should have the freedom to talk about their work and its subjects and the places they have compiled information (the books, articles, texts, etc.) just as much as I.

Just because I'm the guy who writes stuff about Sony 707/717 should NOT be the Very Good Reason I should stay away from here, should it?

I know that another author wrote a book about the 707 and perhaps
717, and I know that he bought my Nikon eBook many months before
deciding he would create eBooks, too, which copy my original
technique of providing them in several resolutions as a kindness
for different computer systems. I consider that a bit of plagiarism
and am not disposed to point folks in his direction. And since I
don't have his works, I really can't comment on them either way,
but I do take the high road and mention his site with a live link
in the eBook interactive Appendix.

Are referring to Dennis Curtin's books? I'd like to know.

When I post here, I'm far more interested in saying what I believe
in and what I know to be true than pushing people into my store.
But it IS there, and it DOES have a bunch of things most 707/717
camera owners seem to be interested in. And I will continue to be
me.

And here lies the problem - you may be doing a great job helping
people, and I think you are, but the things are never what they
are, they're only what they appear to be.

I'll give you a choice: Either I can speak my mind, mention my life's work, help support this site in a substantial material way, help people with their "issues", hassles, techniques, understanding, operational principles, etc. or --what?-- I can leave you all alone and go my own way?

Great: You get nothing; I get nothing; Phil gets nothing: Everybody wins?

That's a Good Idea?

-iNova

Newsperson, Author, Designer, Patent holder, Raconteur, Spoiler of Women.

Of sufficient interest or importance to the public to warrant reporting in the media.
--
http://www.itssony.com

 

[pdqgp]

consider this....Peter has been a member since when....1999 or so. He started with Nikon since as he said...he was more familiar with them and prolly had one.

once he became familiar with Sony and did the work to write a book to help others, he became more familiar and involved.

it's that simple. plugging the book...again, he pays and no doubt pays DPReview for sales coming from this site too. His touting it here and folks buying the book pays Phil. Why would Phil not turn away a decent plug that's not outright a simple banner ad in the middle of a thread. peter contributes too. who cares if there is an abscure post here and there where he references the book. I expect him to really.

I push WAAG products on the message boards I"m involved with. Why, I like them and due to that promotion, they actually provided my full outfit for free. yes...free. and don't tell me that perhaps somewhere among all the links to folks web sites, picture boards and what not that they too aren't hoping for the blue-bird sale or catching of someones eye. Don't peek at this link as you may end up contributing the notice of me by someone at Chevy...hey.....free truck!....yeah..that's the ticket.... http://www.pbase.com/pdqgp/ltz_photos or http://www.timlauro.com/cars/trailblazer/1-main-page.html

Just last week, the president of StonGard emailed me about the number of inquiries they got from seeing things about MY SUV. Just a simple thank you, but you're darn right I do love the product and also hope to catch someones eye with it. I did.

Don't want to start a push here in the Camera world, but this type of posting and hinting is more pronounced than you think.

Admittedly, giving away something that’s in the ebook would be bad
business but that's the whole point, isn't it? This forum is not
for the conducting business. From my point of view, every time
Peter responds to a posting on this forum using the name he writes
under and even mentions his ebook, he is promoting it, regardless
of how indirect it might seem or how helpful he appears trying to
be. He has an entirely separate channel for people to ask him
questions about his ebooks and that's called email. If I was
marketing a product relevant to this forum and habitually came on
here even to do something as simple and apparently benign as to
answer questions about it, I would love it. Every question I answer
to clarify something about it is promoting it, isn't it?

And if you think Peter is interested in this forum outside selling
his ebook to us, check out how often he ‘contributed’ to the STF
before his book was published.

Don't get me wrong. I've got nothing against him. He's apparently a
good author and has a good product although my personal opinion is
it is over priced considering the plethora of actions that are
available online for free that look to be just as effective as many
of his from what little I can tell from the information available
on his website, but what I don't understand is why Phil turns a
blind eye to this and yet smacks Eric soundly for what I consider
an innocent lack of judgment.

I think any regular visitor to this forum since the release of his
Sony ebook knows what I'm talking about whether they agree with it
or not. I don't like double standards.

Gordon

The only Peter iNova postings I found were of him responding to
questions about his ebooks, none initiated by him. I'll keep
looking.

--
Sony F707 & Nikon CP990 owner, pbase supporter.



ONE OF THE GREAT MYSTERIES OF LIFE
Why do ketchup makers pride themselves on the thickness of
their product and then put it in a glass bottle with an opening
too small to pour it?

--
-tim
Sony 717, Nikon 995 & Konica KD400Z
Accessories....tons of course
pbase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/pdqgp

 

[Peter iNova]

Peter iNova:
So, the other author actually "stole" your idea of providing
multiple resolutions? Isn't this obvious and hasn't this been used
elsewhere for ages as well?

No. I have zero reference on the idea before I invented it and produced it in the Nikon eBook Version 1.0.

There were zero multi-resolution pictorial eBooks published before mine. My copyright

Also, copying an idea is NOT plagiarizing. Plagiarizing is copying
the expression of an idea.

True in a technical sense. The writer in question merely lifted an original format idea of mine in several ways for use in a competitive digital photographic work without a nod or fare thee well. I consider it a minor unethical theft.

"I've got a new idea: We'll just buy iNova's book and COPY THOSE IDEAS!"

The same author has a new work out called "How Do I Do That" or some such. The Nikon eBook's most appreciated chapter, according to reviewers, is called "How Do I..."

Another theft, but a minor one. One can't copyright a title. But I'm getting tired of teaching the guy how to think.

Copyright laws do not protect ideas themselves, so if you want to
protect an idea, you need to obtain a patent on it.

I have, on other subject matter. See the US Patent Office under "iNova".

M.M.

--
http://www.digitalsecrets.net

 

[Gordon W]

Hi Tim. I'm not trying to be hard on Peter, just trying to understand the apparent inconsistency. The fact his product is good or not is not really the point.

Phil has established rules. If others have broken them then they've been subtle enough not to have caught my attention or I've missed those threads. Can't say that about Peter.

Technically even Phil can't break his own rules without making himself look inconsistent. He can change them as he likes, it is his site after all, but if even he can't live within his own rules then they are bad rules.

I personally think he has excellent rules and they are one of the reasons this is such an excellent forum. But I also don't like seeing preferential treatment without it being made perfectly clear why there's an exception, particularly when one of our own gets banned for what I consider to be a far less offense.

That's all I'm saying. No more. No less.

Have a Happy New Year, Tim. Getting close to that time here.

Gordon

Not directed at you specifically Gordaon, but rather anyone with
the same 'beef'

Yes, there is prolly some special 'oversight' by Phil for Peter.
Who cares? It's not our business and he doesn't have to inform
anyone. That would cause more grief than allowing it. Phil gets
perks too I'm sure. Ever notice how he rarely posts a review that
slams a camera or says don't buy it? He's very fair and scientific
don't take the above the wrong way. My point being, yes, he
probably cuts him some slack...as I would and think he should.

We all should. How many folks here put there site up showing prints
for sale? or plug themselves in hopes that someone may make an
offer to them? or just plain get discovered?

There's a motive behind most everything. Relax already. I plug
Peter's book more than he does and it's because it's really good.
My motive...to help someone....secret motive, perhaps it just makes
me feel good that if someone gets it and it brings them joy, they
may actually remember me when they tell their family how the day
went. Who knows...who cares.

--
Sony F707 & Nikon CP990 owner, pbase supporter.



ONE OF THE GREAT MYSTERIES OF LIFE
Why do ketchup makers pride themselves on the thickness of
their product and then put it in a glass bottle with an opening
too small to pour it?