Is N1 low light AF bad?

[HappyVan]

DPR stated that,

“1 System performance in bright lighting conditions is excellent, but in average indoor lighting conditions a combination of HESITANT CONTRAST-DETECTION AF and a poorly-programmed Auto ISO system that threatens blurry photos is a huge shame.”

Not sure what tests they did. In my experience, V1 AF is excellent in low light.

Here's a sample ISO 1100 f/4 and 1/15s with 10-30 lens at 10mm. You should be using a flash.









Auto Area CDAF locked quickly. You know its CDAF because the image quivers as the lens back/forth quickly.

For comparison, the AF quiver was insignificant compared to Pany GH1. Fast compared to D5100 CDAF with Tamron 17-50 f2.8.

The room was lit by a single bulb 120V. Tested it in the darker areas of the room. Auto Area CDAF locked steadily (1/4s f/4 ISO3200) on at least one area of contrast 9/10.

There would be the one time that you get a red AF square. Change the frame slightly and green again.

This is excellent performance comparable to D300 PDAF Auto Area (D300 does win for single AF point). IMO, V1 low light AF is as good as you get for under $1200.

User Tip: The green AF assist light only turns on in Smart Photo Selector, and not in Still Image mode(?). So, use Smart Photo Selector in low light. Makes sense?

What are your experiences? Perhaps, the DPR guys would like to comment?

 

[Clayton1985]

I find it to be average. It definitely can't keep up with my D7000 in low light but I don't know how much of a factor the lens makes in those situations.

 

[Alejandro Daz del Ro Fery]

User Tip: The green AF assist light only turns on in Smart Photo Selector, and not in Still Image mode(?). So, use Smart Photo Selector in low light. Makes sense?

Not mine ( but J1), its green AF assist lights in the 3 modes in low light, smart photo selector, still image & motion snapshot.

What are your experiences? Perhaps, the DPR guys would like to comment?

I ♥ it
--
Un saludo.

 

[HappyVan]

What are your experiences? Perhaps, the DPR guys would like to comment?

I ♥ it
--
Un saludo.

I'm sure that you will love the next camera even more!

 

[Identity]

My V1 auto-focus is not as reliable in low light as I'd like it to be, and not as reliable as other cameras I've had. It seems that it's not so much low light that's a problem, but low contrast. I have definitely missed shots because of AF failure where my Pentax K-x or Canon T2i would have had no problem.

 

[JP Scherrer]

My J1 seem to have a -slightly- faster AF than my D700 IN GOOD LIGHT, but slightly slower in DIM LIGHT !!!

...in any case, I find it very usable in low light !


J-P.

Photo Galeries at http://www.pbase.com/scherrer
Spherical Panoramas (360x180 degrees) at http://www.360cities.net/profile/jps
Equipment list in profile

 

[Alejandro Daz del Ro Fery]

Of course, I'll like more the Nikon 3 than the Nikon 2, life's rules.

What are your experiences? Perhaps, the DPR guys would like to comment?

I ♥ it
--
Un saludo.

I'm sure that you will love the next camera even more!

--
Un saludo.

 

[Paul Pasco]

This is probably the most annoying thing about the V1 for me. I have definitely missed shots in low light that my current old D50 and even my Pany FZ28 would have gotten. Granted the light levels are low enough to require flash but it still needs to focus! The problem shows up the most for me when taking shots of pets or people and are usually family documentation type snapshots, which shouldn't be difficult. The camera certainly excels in good light and in bright light it's instantaneous. Before I was given the V1 for Christmas I had wanted a FZ150 for my casual camera and had intended to purchase a dedicated flash for it. Based on my experience with the FZ28 I thought this would be a good upgrade. I have since bought the 30-110 and the SB-N5 and enjoy using it all for the most part; I think the IQ is outstanding for the size of the kit, I just wish low light focus were a lot better. I doubt if firmware can help either as it's probably a hardware shortcoming. Unlike their DSLR brothers, Nikon compacts have never been known for stellar low light focus. I wonder if a fast CX prime like a 11mm f1.4 (30mm equiv.) would perform better. Anybody here have any good low light, low contrast tests with the 10mm prime?
--
Regards, Paul

Lili's Dad

 

[HappyVan]

This is probably the most annoying thing about the V1 for me. I have definitely missed shots in low light that my current old D50 and even my Pany FZ28 would have gotten. Granted the light levels are low enough to require flash but it still needs to focus! The problem shows up the most for me when taking shots of pets or people and are usually family documentation type snapshots, which shouldn't be difficult.

Could you show samples to illustrate what you mean? I don't have a problem with static subjects in normal room lighting. DPR calls it Average interior lighting EV 5.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikonv1j1/page13.asp

 

[Paul Pasco]

This is probably the most annoying thing about the V1 for me. I have definitely missed shots in low light that my current old D50 and even my Pany FZ28 would have gotten. Granted the light levels are low enough to require flash but it still needs to focus! The problem shows up the most for me when taking shots of pets or people and are usually family documentation type snapshots, which shouldn't be difficult.

Could you show samples to illustrate what you mean? I don't have a problem with static subjects in normal room lighting. DPR calls it Average interior lighting EV 5.

No I can't because it won't focus and I don't get the shot! In these cases I try to aim at something of more contrast in the same plane as the subject but by then the moment may have passed. Your bottle label examples have good contrast, much better than a face or a cat's fur and I would expect almost any camera to be able to focus on it. The subjects I have trouble with are not static and I am learning how to adjust. I guess I'm just spoiled by my ancient D50 that can focus in near darkness with it's built in illuminator. My main uses for this camera are going to be outdoors anyway and there it is excellent.

Regards, Paul

Lili's Dad

 

[chimphappyhour]

I'd say about the same. I don't find it to be a really huge difference for me though. At least not enough for me to drag the point out in a review to make it a bullet point.

 

[Bangers and Mash]

This is probably the most annoying thing about the V1 for me. I have definitely missed shots in low light that my current old D50 and even my Pany FZ28 would have gotten. Granted the light levels are low enough to require flash but it still needs to focus! The problem shows up the most for me when taking shots of pets or people and are usually family documentation type snapshots, which shouldn't be difficult. The camera certainly excels in good light and in bright light it's instantaneous. Before I was given the V1 for Christmas I had wanted a FZ150 for my casual camera and had intended to purchase a dedicated flash for it. Based on my experience with the FZ28 I thought this would be a good upgrade. I have since bought the 30-110 and the SB-N5 and enjoy using it all for the most part; I think the IQ is outstanding for the size of the kit, I just wish low light focus were a lot better. I doubt if firmware can help either as it's probably a hardware shortcoming. Unlike their DSLR brothers, Nikon compacts have never been known for stellar low light focus. I wonder if a fast CX prime like a 11mm f1.4 (30mm equiv.) would perform better. Anybody here have any good low light, low contrast tests with the 10mm prime?
--
Regards, Paul

Lili's Dad

I haven't purchased the V1 as of yet, so I do not qualify to give any kind of opinion regarding it's operation. One of the things that's holding me back now in purchasing one is this issue with low light. I have an older Nikon P5000 that drives me crazy regarding low light focusing. To put it bluntly, it's pathetic, and I don't want to go down the road with this issue with the V1. I understand what you are saying here. It's seems to be an apparent problem with Nikon's smaller cameras. My wife has a Sony HX9V and I'm blown away by it's ability to focus in low light. But I'm looking for something more than a P&S, but not a boat anchor dSLR. I also want a camera that has a proper EVF. The Nikon V1 offers everything I am looking for in a camera . . . but this low light focusing issue is really bothering me, and I don't want the camera to go to such a high ISO in order to perform a focus.

 

[Brian Caslis]

I haven't purchased the V1 as of yet, so I do not qualify to give any kind of opinion regarding it's operation. One of the things that's holding me back now in purchasing one is this issue with low light. I have an older Nikon P5000 that drives me crazy regarding low light focusing. To put it bluntly, it's pathetic, and I don't want to go down the road with this issue with the V1. I understand what you are saying here. It's seems to be an apparent problem with Nikon's smaller cameras. My wife has a Sony HX9V and I'm blown away by it's ability to focus in low light. But I'm looking for something more than a P&S, but not a boat anchor dSLR. I also want a camera that has a proper EVF. The Nikon V1 offers everything I am looking for in a camera . . . but this low light focusing issue is really bothering me, and I don't want the camera to go to such a high ISO in order to perform a focus.

I don't think the issue is low light as much as low contrast. I used my closet last night to take a photo in complete darkness. The AF illumination light was plenty to lock focus and get the shot. But the target was high contrast.

I get the not focusing issue when using single point AF in low light (room with low tungsten lighting at night). There are times in low light where it won't lock focus but a D7000 would. However if I try auto area AF, it always gets the focus since there always seems to be something it can get the contrast on that it needs.

 

[Seedeich]

Don’t know what people mean with low light but I shoot the V1 with the 10-30mm indoors and outdoors at night. The AF assist-light is turned off and I’ve always been able to get a focus with AF-S center point. Sometimes I have to work a little for it.

This image was shot in darkness. I used a small LED flashlight to see anything in the viewfinder and to focus. The SB-N5 provided the light for shooting. An extreme example, which shows what can be done with the V1.





--
Seedeich on Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/seedeich/tags/v1/

 

[Bangers and Mash]

I haven't purchased the V1 as of yet, so I do not qualify to give any kind of opinion regarding it's operation. One of the things that's holding me back now in purchasing one is this issue with low light. I have an older Nikon P5000 that drives me crazy regarding low light focusing. To put it bluntly, it's pathetic, and I don't want to go down the road with this issue with the V1. I understand what you are saying here. It's seems to be an apparent problem with Nikon's smaller cameras. My wife has a Sony HX9V and I'm blown away by it's ability to focus in low light. But I'm looking for something more than a P&S, but not a boat anchor dSLR. I also want a camera that has a proper EVF. The Nikon V1 offers everything I am looking for in a camera . . . but this low light focusing issue is really bothering me, and I don't want the camera to go to such a high ISO in order to perform a focus.

I don't think the issue is low light as much as low contrast. I used my closet last night to take a photo in complete darkness. The AF illumination light was plenty to lock focus and get the shot. But the target was high contrast.

I get the not focusing issue when using single point AF in low light (room with low tungsten lighting at night). There are times in low light where it won't lock focus but a D7000 would. However if I try auto area AF, it always gets the focus since there always seems to be something it can get the contrast on that it needs.

Thank you for the clarification. I was thinking more on light not contrast. That puts a different perspective on it.

 

[Paul Pasco]

I haven't purchased the V1 as of yet, so I do not qualify to give any kind of opinion regarding it's operation. One of the things that's holding me back now in purchasing one is this issue with low light. I have an older Nikon P5000 that drives me crazy regarding low light focusing. To put it bluntly, it's pathetic, and I don't want to go down the road with this issue with the V1. I understand what you are saying here. It's seems to be an apparent problem with Nikon's smaller cameras. My wife has a Sony HX9V and I'm blown away by it's ability to focus in low light. But I'm looking for something more than a P&S, but not a boat anchor dSLR. I also want a camera that has a proper EVF. The Nikon V1 offers everything I am looking for in a camera . . . but this low light focusing issue is really bothering me, and I don't want the camera to go to such a high ISO in order to perform a focus.

I don't think the issue is low light as much as low contrast. I used my closet last night to take a photo in complete darkness. The AF illumination light was plenty to lock focus and get the shot. But the target was high contrast.

I get the not focusing issue when using single point AF in low light (room with low tungsten lighting at night). There are times in low light where it won't lock focus but a D7000 would. However if I try auto area AF, it always gets the focus since there always seems to be something it can get the contrast on that it needs.

I just tried the auto area AF in near darkness and it indeed finds focus somewhere quickly but not always what I want to be in focus. This mode will probably suffice for a static scene but counting on it to focus on a face may be hit or miss. I also tried the auto face detect mode with single area AF and this may be the ticket for low light people pics. I have to admit it's hard for me to relinquish control like that but if it works....

--
Regards, Paul

Lili's Dad

 

[karlreed]

I haven't purchased the V1 as of yet, so I do not qualify to give any kind of opinion regarding it's operation. One of the things that's holding me back now in purchasing one is this issue with low light. I have an older Nikon P5000 that drives me crazy regarding low light focusing. To put it bluntly, it's pathetic, and I don't want to go down the road with this issue with the V1. I understand what you are saying here. It's seems to be an apparent problem with Nikon's smaller cameras. My wife has a Sony HX9V and I'm blown away by it's ability to focus in low light. But I'm looking for something more than a P&S, but not a boat anchor dSLR. I also want a camera that has a proper EVF. The Nikon V1 offers everything I am looking for in a camera . . . but this low light focusing issue is really bothering me, and I don't want the camera to go to such a high ISO in order to perform a focus.

I don't think the issue is low light as much as low contrast. I used my closet last night to take a photo in complete darkness. The AF illumination light was plenty to lock focus and get the shot. But the target was high contrast.

I get the not focusing issue when using single point AF in low light (room with low tungsten lighting at night). There are times in low light where it won't lock focus but a D7000 would. However if I try auto area AF, it always gets the focus since there always seems to be something it can get the contrast on that it needs.

I just tried the auto area AF in near darkness and it indeed finds focus somewhere quickly but not always what I want to be in focus. This mode will probably suffice for a static scene but counting on it to focus on a face may be hit or miss. I also tried the auto face detect mode with single area AF and this may be the ticket for low light people pics. I have to admit it's hard for me to relinquish control like that but if it works....

--
Regards, Paul

Lili's Dad

Just did a quick check of a scene which is not very bright, and not much contrast. A passageway that can be completely closed off.

There isn't much light, but the eye can see ok. Also, a few door edges for contrast.

D700 with Nikon 24-70mm f2.8 focuses well where there is some contrast.

ZX1 with f1.8-2.5 28-112mm equiv, almost as well as the D700

V1 with 30-100mm at f3.8, very poor.

However, the view-finder image for each camera is..

ZX1 v. bright

D700 just visible to naked eye

V1 almost black.

So, it could be that its the max aperture that is also an issue.

I'll be more interested when there are some f2.8 lenses available.

In support of this, the D700 with 28-200mmf3.5-5.6 is about the same as the ZX1. Actually, worse, since there was extensive hunting a lot of the time.

All these are without the low-light AF assist.

Karl
--
karl reed

 

[karlreed]

Anyone able to do a rough test using the FT1 and say a f2.8 or f1.8 FF lens?

That may help us get an understanding of the issues.

Karl
--
karl reed

 

[Brian Caslis]

Anyone able to do a rough test using the FT1 and say a f2.8 or f1.8 FF lens?

That may help us get an understanding of the issues.

Karl

The aperture is of course a factor in getting focus and you can easily test this yourself. Use the 10-30 zoom at both 10mm and 30mm. You will find it focuses much easier at 10 instead of 30. So if you had a faster lens, it would get focus in places it can't with a slower lens.

 

[karlreed]

Anyone able to do a rough test using the FT1 and say a f2.8 or f1.8 FF lens?

That may help us get an understanding of the issues.

Karl

The aperture is of course a factor in getting focus and you can easily test this yourself. Use the 10-30 zoom at both 10mm and 30mm. You will find it focuses much easier at 10 instead of 30. So if you had a faster lens, it would get focus in places it can't with a slower lens.

Thanks Brian, yes, I've already seen that in a number of situations, however, it may help people to work out what they feel about the system (I love mine) if someone had a direct answer.

Karl

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karl reed