Nikon D4 announced!!! Officially!!

[mrpevets]

I truly was waiting for a pro body + more than 20 megapixels

I want to shoot landscapes + I want to do some video

I want a D3x! (but it does not have video) I do not know what will make me fully contented

Anyone have an idea when the D800 will be announced?

eternal camper

 

[Horshack]

n/t

 

[VivaLasVegas]

Damn....the specs seems weak and gimmicky(colorful buttons, 16 face detection, extra button in front), the only spec D4 got 1DX beat is price that's it. At any rate, it is better D3s for sure.

 

[bgbs]

As I said before, if Nikon focuses too much on video features, they will sacrifice technological advances in photography. With D4 I see huge improvement in video features, and marginal improvement in photography features.

 

[coudet]

The banding-in-Nikon-pre-release-sample-image curse strikes again, albeit very broad-based in frequency and modest.

Good eye, I see it too.

 

[bob elkind]

For video there is pre-codec color space compression (subsampling) and then codec compression. The D4's HDMI output is 4:2:2, which traditionally is nearly equal to 4:4:4 in terms of IQ and so I have a habit of calling that uncompressed.

Please cite a reference. The HDMI signal interface formats for all the video modes listed in the D4 specs are 4:4:4. You can verify this in the HDMI 1.3a spec, available for free download here: http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/specification.aspx

From section 6.2.3 of HDMI spec version 1.3a:

Only pixel encodings of RGB 4:4:4, YCBCR 4:2:2, and YCBCR 4:4:4 (as specified in Section 6.5) may be used on HDMI. All HDMI Sources and Sinks shall be capable of supporting RGB 4:4:4 pixel encoding.

I think that is clear enough for our purposes, do you agree?

--
Bob Elkind

Family, mostly sports. Seriously, folks, I'm not that good. If I can do it, you can do it!
photo galleries at http://eteam.zenfolio.com
my relationship with my camera is strictly photonic

 

[Horshack]

Can't speak to the accuracy of his recollection (and it's not in the D4 brochure) but this is what he recalls being told by Nikon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT0Pb5SNXmU#t=17m05s

As for the HDMI spec, I would guess that very few consumer and even prosumer/pro cameras support native 4:4:4 output internally in their processing chain. I'm guessing they'll upsample to 4:4:4 if required to meet the spec citation you referenced.

 

[bob elkind]

The new features and advantages in the D4 will be thoroughly discussed. I've noticed a few new inconveniences or steps backward which have cropped up.

Some negatives from the NikonUSA comparison D4 vs. D3s (please correct me if I'm mistaken):

• The new battery is CIPA rated for 2600 shots in the D4 vs. 4200 for the EN-EL4a/D3s package
• Interchangeable focusing screens are not currently listed in the D4 specs table
• Only 1 standard (non-XQD) slot. If you want to use the second card slot for data protection, you will need to stock both standard CF and XQD. There is not backward electrical compatibility between the two card formats. And until XQD cards and readers appear on the market, the second card slot is essentially unusable.
• No 720P/24 video format listed. 24FPS is extremely important for the professional movie crowd. Whereas the complaint had been lack of 1080P/24 support, the answer is 1080P/24 without 720P/24. Some folks with 720P editing flows will be forced into down-converting from 1080P to 720P.

--
Bob Elkind

Family, mostly sports. Seriously, folks, I'm not that good. If I can do it, you can do it!
photo galleries at http://eteam.zenfolio.com
my relationship with my camera is strictly photonic

 

[bob elkind]

Can't speak to the accuracy of his recollection (and it's not in the D4 brochure) but this is what he recalls being told by Nikon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT0Pb5SNXmU#t=17m05s

I do not have the time to watch the 30-minute video, but thank you for the link.

As for the HDMI spec, I would guess that very few consumer and even prosumer/pro cameras support native 4:4:4 output internally in their processing chain.

This is neither here nor there. The D4 is a horrible choice for casual amateur videography. Nikon is playing catchup to Canon for the Hollywood community, and the D4 spec sheet makes Nikon's interest in this market very clear.

The poor video quality resulting from the mid-range (or worse) h.264 video profiles currently used in dSLRs has been a thorn in the side of videographers. Video storage and editing gear is clearly capable of storing and editing video at the 4:4:4 level, and video cameras designed to replace film cameras. For example, the 'ancient' RED ONE provides RAW output from a 5120x2700 pixel array sensor (enough pixels to generate 1080P 4:4:4, I believe).

The proof will be in the pudding, but it should be plain to everyone reading this thread that HDMI is no barrier to 4:4:4 video. And sensor Bayer pattern pixels have no bearing on the matter, as the sensor output data (Bayer pattern and all) has many times the resolution needed to provide 4:4:4 1920x1080 video without 'upsampling'.
--
Bob Elkind

Family, mostly sports. Seriously, folks, I'm not that good. If I can do it, you can do it!
photo galleries at http://eteam.zenfolio.com
my relationship with my camera is strictly photonic

 

[Hynee]

I pushed it ~4-5 stops in photoshop with curves, and I could see something like that... at 100%... it's superb performance for ISO-6400.

 

[Horshack]

Can't speak to the accuracy of his recollection (and it's not in the D4 brochure) but this is what he recalls being told by Nikon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT0Pb5SNXmU#t=17m05s

I do not have the time to watch the 30-minute video, but thank you for the link.

I included a time-jump in that URL that drops you right to the relevant part.

As for the HDMI spec, I would guess that very few consumer and even prosumer/pro cameras support native 4:4:4 output internally in their processing chain.

This is neither here nor there. The D4 is a horrible choice for casual amateur videography. Nikon is playing catchup to Canon for the Hollywood community, and the D4 spec sheet makes Nikon's interest in this market very clear.

The poor video quality resulting from the mid-range (or worse) h.264 video profiles currently used in dSLRs has been a thorn in the side of videographers. Video storage and editing gear is clearly capable of storing and editing video at the 4:4:4 level, and video cameras designed to replace film cameras. For example, the 'ancient' RED ONE provides RAW output from a 5120x2700 pixel array sensor (enough pixels to generate 1080P 4:4:4, I believe).

The proof will be in the pudding, but it should be plain to everyone reading this thread that HDMI is no barrier to 4:4:4 video. And sensor Bayer pattern pixels have no bearing on the matter, as the sensor output data (Bayer pattern and all) has many times the resolution needed to provide 4:4:4 1920x1080 video without 'upsampling'.
--

I agree, HDMI is not the limit. Neither is storage for most cases. It's the internal video processing of the source, for whatever product-specific reasons.

 

[Horshack]

I pushed it ~4-5 stops in photoshop with curves, and I could see something like that... at 100%... it's superb performance for ISO-6400.

Hmm, I see it unmodified in CS5 on my color-managed IPS display calibrated for 110 cd/m2.

 

[bob elkind]

bob elkind wrote:
...

As for the ethernet port... even Gigabit ethernet (GbE) does not have the bandwidth required to transport uncompressed video.

Having written this, it should be made clear that GbE is easily capable enough for transport of moderately compressed video which would greatly exceed the quality (freedom from artifacts) of h.264 video typically seen from current high-end dSLRs.

This may be the true use and need for the QXD slot -- upscale h.264 profile video which would put the 5D and 7D to shame.

--
Bob Elkind

Family, mostly sports. Seriously, folks, I'm not that good. If I can do it, you can do it!
photo galleries at http://eteam.zenfolio.com
my relationship with my camera is strictly photonic

 

[bob elkind]

Can't speak to the accuracy of his recollection (and it's not in the D4 brochure) but this is what he recalls being told by Nikon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT0Pb5SNXmU#t=17m05s

I do not have the time to watch the 30-minute video, but thank you for the link.

I included a time-jump in that URL that drops you right to the relevant part.

Thanks! I watched the clip.

I think the speaker did not realise that HDMI is 4:4:4 R/G/B rather than 4:2:2 G/B/R or 4:2:2 YCbCr. I can say this with absolute certainty: You cannot tell from the 720P or 1080P HDMI output data whether the video was processed to 4:4:4 level or some variant of 4:2:2.

I agree, HDMI is not the limit. Neither is storage for most cases. It's the internal video processing of the source, for whatever product-specific reasons.

--
Bob Elkind

Family, mostly sports. Seriously, folks, I'm not that good. If I can do it, you can do it!
photo galleries at http://eteam.zenfolio.com
my relationship with my camera is strictly photonic

 

[RBFresno]

Expand Dynamic Range Using Built-In HDR Combines two exposures at up to 3EV to create a single image revealing an extremely wide dynamic range, but with less noise and richer color gradation than ever before

RB

http://www.dpreview.com/members/2305099006/challenges
http://www.pbase.com/rbfresno/profile

 

[Hynee]

I only have a consumer monitor, and I guess you said it was a subtle effect. There is some banding there.

 

[GlobalGuyUSA]

Nikon dropped the ball -- just like they are going to do with the D800 (the forecasted wasted megapixels monstrosity).

D4 Huge Failures:

• Two memory formats (complete NONSENSE) in a pro-camera. Shame on Nikon for selling something to Sony or getting their arm twisted into it somehow. This one reeks of corruption. I swear that there is a Nikon executive with extra money in his pocket tonight. And it stinks!

• Basically the same camera as the D3S. No improvement in ISO. Waste of $1,000 + $450 in memory upgrades (you'll need 2 readers and 2 XQD cards for your backups). WASTE of money. Just a Megapixel bump with "video ****" fulfillment bs.

Boring. Go back home. Wait for the D4S -- hopefully coming sooner than later.

One good news -- in addition to QXD cards, which probably will DIE OUT within 2 years, just like other Sony memory types -- you can also buy a $700 iPad. No word on whether or not it works with the far more reasonable Android software? Please tell if so. We're only 50% of the market with far more potential!

 

[Lance B]

I only have a consumer monitor, and I guess you said it was a subtle effect. There is some banding there.

I have a fully calibrated DELL IPS 2209WA screen (got top reviews) and can't see any banding whatsoever. Superb result in my mind.

--
Lance B
http://www.pbase.com/lance_b

 

[sebastian73]

here the link: http://www.joemcnally.com/blog/2012/01/06/shooting-the-d4/
--

Nikon D3s, AFS 16-35/4.0G, AFS 24-70/2.8G, AFS 85mm/1.4G, AFS 105mm/2.8VR, AFS 70-200/2.8VRII, AFS 200/2.0VR, TC-1.4E II, TC-2.0E III, SB-800

Gitzo GT3541LS tripod with Markins M20, Gitzo GM3551 monopod with RRS MH-01 head

 

[bob elkind]

Amplifications and corrections of my comments...

The new features and advantages in the D4 will be thoroughly discussed. I've noticed a few new inconveniences or steps backward which have cropped up.

Some negatives from the NikonUSA comparison D4 vs. D3s (please correct me if I'm mistaken):

...

• Only 1 standard (non-XQD) slot. If you want to use the second card slot for data protection, you will need to stock both standard CF and XQD. There is not backward electrical compatibility between the two card formats. And until XQD cards and readers appear on the market, the second card slot is essentially unusable.

The availability (or lack) of XQD is a short-term problem. Nine months from now the grumbling will have mostly dissipated.

• No 720P/24 video format listed. 24FPS is extremely important for the professional movie crowd. Whereas the complaint had been lack of 1080P/24 support, the answer is 1080P/24 without 720P/24. Some folks with 720P editing flows will be forced into down-converting from 1080P to 720P.

In this case I was plainly mistaken. 720P/25 is clearly included in the video repertoire.

I'll add a few comments or concerns...

First, the broadcast quality video output (via HDMI) is - at first glance - a true groundbreaker. The video crowd has been clamoring for video quality equivalent to still image quality, even to the point of expressing interest in RAW format video. The uncompromised video output should be the answer to this hue and cry, right? But the high-quality video output is only available when recording to the memory card slots is disabled, so you must provide an outboard video recorder tethered to the D4 while you are shooting. The tethered recorder kills some of the buzz from this feature. From an engineering standpoint, the limitation makes complete sense. HDMI data bandwidth for for 720P60 is over 2.1 Gbits (210 MBytes) per second. That's more than can be expected from any single storage card, even XQD. A laptop disk drive isn't going to cut it for an external recorder.

Next, many of the new features are video-centric. The HDMI video port is going to get a lot of use, for many owners. I'm concerned about the abuse which the cute and adorable little mini-HDMI (Type C) connector is going to absorb. There's the likelihood of considerable torque -- at the hands of a heavy HDMI cable extending straight out from the body -- on a very small connector with very fine mechanical features. I hope the D4's Type C connector is a custom design which is firmly bound and built to take abuse.

Note to videographers: seek ye some right-angle HDMI cables, and add cable strain relief to the fancy custom mounting brackets for which your industry is famous.

--
Bob Elkind

Family, mostly sports. Seriously, folks, I'm not that good. If I can do it, you can do it!
photo galleries at http://eteam.zenfolio.com
my relationship with my camera is strictly photonic