I've left Olympus for Sony

[arief poerniawan]

the future of FF system is dead.. the bigger sized of the sensor mean nothing if you are still using film base lens because sensor we are using right now is not the same as 'Film' so don't try to treat the them with the same way..

all i can see from the FF system right now is trying to proof that they can beat MF (medium format) camera, and for me is like dreaming on the daylight.. i can see this by the megapixel race that happened today.

remember when they use bigger sensor, they will also need bigger lens so that the light that struck the sensor is "head on" if not, you will have vignet on your pic..

and as the result, bigger lens mean they are heavier, bigger and more expensive..

from the info i got down here, i can see that investing in APSC system of SONY is not sufficient cause you won't get high quality glass from CZ.. even when you insisting using CZ lens, you will pay 100% for only using 60% of the lens, not to mention the heavy weight and bigger lens..

All from official heads of Sony. from interviews. No prooflinks, all this was found in the past 2-3 months in different places.

• 4-6 new Carl Zeiss lenses in soming 12-15 moths, all full frame
• Carl Zeiss will not produce any more cropped lenses, only FF, all cropped will be by Sony
• A77 and A750 both coming in april-june 2011
• After A77 the main forces will develop new FF sensor and camera
• First camera based on new FF sensor will be Nikon
• New FF Sony camera will be released in the end of 2011 or in the beginning of 2012
• Sony does not know yet if the new FF will be DSLR or SLT, this will depend on pros' SLT feedback

This all looks to me as a rather clear future. Well, comparing to what I knew of the future of 4/3 system...

--



My photo albums http://public.fotki.com/snowcat8/

 

[czato]

I've come to the same conclusion - and made the same decision - sold my 4/3rds gear, but still can't decide between Sony SLT cameras and m4/3.

Lens choice and less comfortable-to-hold hardware on these smaller formats is precisely why I won't move; I don't see enough benefit for me.

Even if Olympus stops making 4/3rds stuff tomorrow, I still (much) prefer to use the 4/3rds bodies and lenses over the newer stuff.

Sad truth is, I prefer Olympus ergonomics over any other camera maker. Also,
zooms like 9-18mm, or 12-60 are fantastic.

However - for me, neither "clouded" future or ISO is not a problem. I had following issues:

1. I shoot a lot during vacations, in the mountains. DR is important, and Panasonic
sensor isn't the best for that.
2. I want more creative freedom in terms of DOF. APS-C and FF give you that. You

can achive the same with 4/3rds, but only if your lens is F2, or faster. However,

Olympus decided for some reason that small cameras need big zooms, instead of pancake-sized primes. In the end, I had enough waiting for 200$ 25mm F1.4-1.8 prime.

 

[Sergey_Green]

Broken record
Pot, Kettle, something about the color black...

Broken record is a record that skips and repeats itself. Someone who continually repeats the same statement with little variation, if at all, although he has been shown over and over again that the part of the tune he is trying to play does not fit. He will never back his announcements, never respond when corrected, skip the thread altogether when evidence shows the opposite, and repeat the same no-sense again elsewhere. That is the broken record.

--
- sergey

I got the meaning of it just fine...

Oh you sure do

The pot (Sergey) is calling the kettel (take your pick) black...

Precisely! Anyone on any subject (take your pick) ...

By the way, most people use spell checkers as they type. In my case it is even with German keyboard.

--
- sergey

 

[Sergey_Green]

Sad truth is, I prefer Olympus ergonomics over any other camera maker.

If we talk about Sony, are you saying you never liked Minolta ergonomics? This is very unusual I must say.

Also, zooms like 9-18mm, or 12-60 are fantastic.

They are fine, but there are so many other. And lenses alone do not dictate what the final image may end up looking like.

--
- sergey

 

[arief poerniawan]

agree with you

 

[Mahmoud Mousef]

Sad truth is, I prefer Olympus ergonomics over any other camera maker. Also,
zooms like 9-18mm, or 12-60 are fantastic.

However - for me, neither "clouded" future or ISO is not a problem. I had following issues:

1. I shoot a lot during vacations, in the mountains. DR is important, and Panasonic
sensor isn't the best for that.
2. I want more creative freedom in terms of DOF. APS-C and FF give you that. You

can achive the same with 4/3rds, but only if your lens is F2, or faster. However,

Olympus decided for some reason that small cameras need big zooms, instead of pancake-sized primes. In the end, I had enough waiting for 200$ 25mm F1.4-1.8 prime.

Yes it's about getting what your main priority wants/needs in the end. I can see a time in the future where if Olympus abandons or progress is slow-moving with an E-520/E-620 type of DSLR product, I would totally go with another manufacturer or product too. But I will miss some things for sure.

 

[Mahmoud Mousef]

If we talk about Sony, are you saying you never liked Minolta ergonomics? This is very unusual I must say.

How is Sony's ergonomics like Minolta's?

Minolta had far more direct access with lots of direct buttons, didn't they? Last I looked they did.

Much like the Olympus E-520 I have has many direct controls where you don't have to look away from the viewfinder to get direct access to.

 

[czato]

Sad truth is, I prefer Olympus ergonomics over any other camera maker.

If we talk about Sony, are you saying you never liked Minolta ergonomics? This is very unusual I must say.

Also, zooms like 9-18mm, or 12-60 are fantastic.

They are fine, but there are so many other. And lenses alone do not dictate what the final image may end up looking like.

--
- sergey

My brother has A700 (and 3 old Minolta analogue cameras) and it's a classic, but I need lighter/smaller camera. Sony APS-C consumer line however seems to have deliberately crippled design (seems that totally different teams designed FF, APS-C and Nex).

Besides that, the only hole in Sony lineup seems to be equivalent of ZD 9-18mm (light UWA for landscapes), but it's not that important.

 

[wingnut1]

Beg to disagree with your comments about using "film base lenses" on digital cameras in any format, be it FF, APSC or 4/3. Many decades old lenses designed for film still easily meet or exceed the quality of current digital designs. A few examples:

D300 nikkor 35mm f1.4 AIS:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/takitani/3049556605/in/pool-90672466@N00/
D700 nikkor 28mm f2.8 AIS:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rob-sinclair/3796413004/in/photostream/
D700 nikkor 35mm f1.4 AIS
http://www.flickr.com/photos/timosoasepp/4604538188/in/photostream/

A dpreview link worth looking at: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1021&message=35000529&q=35mm+14+AIS&qf=m

Using older lenses, particularly Nikkor, Leica, Voightlander has also become very popular with the new NEX5 and Minolta is quite popular on this forum.

the future of FF system is dead.. the bigger sized of the sensor mean nothing if you are still using film base lens because sensor we are using right now is not the same as 'Film' so don't try to treat the them with the same way..

all i can see from the FF system right now is trying to proof that they can beat MF (medium format) camera, and for me is like dreaming on the daylight.. i can see this by the megapixel race that happened today.

remember when they use bigger sensor, they will also need bigger lens so that the light that struck the sensor is "head on" if not, you will have vignet on your pic..

and as the result, bigger lens mean they are heavier, bigger and more expensive..

from the info i got down here, i can see that investing in APSC system of SONY is not sufficient cause you won't get high quality glass from CZ.. even when you insisting using CZ lens, you will pay 100% for only using 60% of the lens, not to mention the heavy weight and bigger lens..

 

[JoopN]

Seems you don't understand how sensors work. He means with "film based lenses" that the design isn't telecentric which is needed for sensors. So in center this might work, but the more you going to the edges of the sensor the more problems you will have with "film based lenses". If you have sensors with big surfaces per pixel you probably get away with it, but the smaller the pixel the worse the problem. So FF will stuck on a maximum because with more pixels the pixel have to be smaller and will suffer from the smaller surface on the outer border of the sensor. APSC last longer, smaller sensor almost in the sweet spot of the lens, but still not telecentric, so with too high pixel count problems on the borders. 4/3 is designed telecentric, no matter what will happen to the pixel count, it will always be optimal for the sensor. So for the future 4/3 has the best cards, but who knows what they invent to overcome the problems with the non-telecentric designs. Please read http://www.olympus.co.uk/consumer/21693_7045.htm

Beg to disagree with your comments about using "film base lenses" on digital cameras in any format, be it FF, APSC or 4/3. Many decades old lenses designed for film still easily meet or exceed the quality of current digital designs. A few examples:

D300 nikkor 35mm f1.4 AIS:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/takitani/3049556605/in/pool-90672466@N00/
D700 nikkor 28mm f2.8 AIS:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rob-sinclair/3796413004/in/photostream/
D700 nikkor 35mm f1.4 AIS
http://www.flickr.com/photos/timosoasepp/4604538188/in/photostream/

A dpreview link worth looking at: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1021&message=35000529&q=35mm+14+AIS&qf=m

Using older lenses, particularly Nikkor, Leica, Voightlander has also become very popular with the new NEX5 and Minolta is quite popular on this forum.

 

[Big Ga]

. Please read http://www.olympus.co.uk/consumer/21693_7045.htm

And I quote:

Advantages of the Four Thirds System:

• No decrease in image resolution caused by inappropriate lenses – full use of the sensor’s performance
• No loss of wide angle capability
• Significantly reduced incidence of corner-shading
• Smaller, lighter lenses and bodies
• Brighter lenses by approximately two f-stops with same depth of field as 35mm lenses (plus solutions to provide shallow depth of field if required)
• Designed to remain compatible with future sensor developments
• Cross-manufacturer interchangeability
• Perfect harmonisation of lens and body due to communication standard
• Secure investment due to future-oriented design

I wonder if any of those points will be starting to haunt them and those people who quote them?

I especially like the last one. "Secure investment due to future-oriented design". Hmmmm ... riiiigghht ......

And what about:

• Cross-manufacturer interchangeability
• Perfect harmonisation of lens and body due to communication standard

Okayyyyyyy .. .so I guess that means my 50mm macro and 50-200 Mk1 will work perfectly and AF properly on my GH1? and those lenses will also allow orientation information to be sent to my L10 ?

And * Designed to remain compatible with future sensor developments

makes me laugh. What about video developments? none of the older Oly lenses work like the new ones in this mode. Hell ... haven't oly just announced that even the original 14-42 MFT lens is now replaced by a newer model so it works properly to 'MSC' standards ??

 

[shinndigg]

Broken record
Pot, Kettle, something about the color black...

Broken record is a record that skips and repeats itself. Someone who continually repeats the same statement with little variation, if at all, although he has been shown over and over again that the part of the tune he is trying to play does not fit. He will never back his announcements, never respond when corrected, skip the thread altogether when evidence shows the opposite, and repeat the same no-sense again elsewhere. That is the broken record.

--
- sergey

I got the meaning of it just fine...

Oh you sure do

The pot (Sergey) is calling the kettel (take your pick) black...

Precisely! Anyone on any subject (take your pick) ...

By the way, most people use spell checkers as they type. In my case it is even with German keyboard.

Like you said, a broken record, you, the pot calling the kettel black. As per usual, you digress because you dont have an arguement to stand on. BTW, I PURPOSELY misspelled kettle this time...just for you...

--
- sergey

--
shinndigg
http://www.pbase.com/shinndigg

 

[shinndigg]

Broken record
Pot, Kettle, something about the color black...

Broken record is a record that skips and repeats itself. Someone who continually repeats the same statement with little variation, if at all, although he has been shown over and over again that the part of the tune he is trying to play does not fit. He will never back his announcements, never respond when corrected, skip the thread altogether when evidence shows the opposite, and repeat the same no-sense again elsewhere. That is the broken record.

--
- sergey

I got the meaning of it just fine...

Oh you sure do

The pot (Sergey) is calling the kettel (take your pick) black...

Precisely! Anyone on any subject (take your pick) ...

By the way, most people use spell checkers as they type. In my case it is even with German keyboard.

Like you said, a broken record, you, the pot calling the kettel black. As per usual, you digress because you dont have an arguement to stand on. BTW, I PURPOSELY misspelled kettle this time...just for you...

Let me rephrase that...You don't have an intelligent arguement to stand on...

--
- sergey

--
shinndigg
http://www.pbase.com/shinndigg

--
shinndigg
http://www.pbase.com/shinndigg

 

[bluevellet]

Sony would be one of the last camera manufacturers I'd personally go for, but if I did choose that brand, I'd probably go for the A55 myself. I hear the 16-80 lens ain't too shabby either.

I've had a good time with Olympus, and I liked the cameras when I bought them and when I used them. I liked the lenses, especially 50-200. And I thought I'd never jump ship, but...

But Olympus said they are stopping lens development. They added "for now" later, but that still sounded bad. Olympus raised 4/3 lenses prices (information from official Oly Russia). The E5, which came out three years after E3 was a disappointing camera for me, nothing new, no REAL upgrades, just polishing the E3 model. This means Oly just has no time or money or effort to properly develop the system.

I've tested micro 4/3 and I disliked it more then I liked it, this was definitely not for me. And the prices on used Oly equipment began to reduce rapidly, at least here in Russia. 4/3 system fell to stagnation, and stagnation means death.

So I've decided to jump ship before all my gear becomes too cheap to get anything.

I looked at the cameras. I knew I need a dynamically growing system with kbnown future. And I wanted my new camera to produce at least nearly as goo d colors, as Olympus did.

I've got Sony A55. Those new Sony cameras produce rather nice colors, MUCH better then early sony cameras. The new 16MP sensor is just brilliant - veeeery clean at ISO 100 and 200 (at last, I wanted this from E5 badly) and perfectly usable up to 3200. If it is something critical - 6400 is half-usable too. Rather thin AA filter, details are fine.

And I know what to expect from SONY in the coming years! This is just miracle after Olympus's heads keeping silence for years. I know that new lenses are coming, I know that a new semi-pro A77 is coming, and f full frame camera after it at the end of next year. And I know the A-mount system is not going to die, because in a form of DSLRs or SLTs it is developing and will be developed. Knowing the future feels just GREAT after long uncertainty with Olympus.

What did I lost? Or course I had to give something up. Sony's AF is no match for Olympus's 11 point system. Sony only has 3 cross points. Usable - yes, comfortable - no. But Sony KNOWS and ADMITS this as a flaw and develops new system for coming cameras.

What I miss very much, and what cannot be replaced is ZD 50-200. There is NO comparable lens on Sony, or any other system. I just have to admit, that I'll never have a lens so brilliant.

Well, in the end... Thanks Olympus for developing the best cropped system (it WAS the best, yes!) and "thanks" for killing it with your own hands...
--
My photo albums http://public.fotki.com/snowcat8/

 

[Sergey_Green]

Broken record
Pot, Kettle, something about the color black...

Broken record is a record that skips and repeats itself. Someone who continually repeats the same statement with little variation, if at all, although he has been shown over and over again that the part of the tune he is trying to play does not fit. He will never back his announcements, never respond when corrected, skip the thread altogether when evidence shows the opposite, and repeat the same no-sense again elsewhere. That is the broken record.

--
- sergey

I got the meaning of it just fine...

Oh you sure do

The pot (Sergey) is calling the kettel (take your pick) black...

Precisely! Anyone on any subject (take your pick) ...

By the way, most people use spell checkers as they type. In my case it is even with German keyboard.

Like you said, a broken record, you, the pot calling the kettel black. As per usual, you digress because you dont have an arguement to stand on.

No argument to stand on,

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=31706103

Nor is it fair to compare 'wide open', as the ZD zooms handily smoke
just about anyone's glass wide open, zoom or prime. Unless, of
course, you do like to put the lens aperture to full use on
occasion...

--
- sergey

 

[John Mason]

I've got Sony A55. Those new Sony cameras produce rather nice colors, MUCH better then early sony cameras. The new 16MP sensor is just brilliant - veeeery clean at ISO 100 and 200 (at last, I wanted this from E5 badly) and perfectly usable up to 3200. If it is something critical - 6400 is half-usable too. Rather thin AA filter, details are fine.

E5 is very clean at 200. The lack of F2 zooms makes the perfectly usable to 3200 not as usable. The A55 is nice. I just bought 3 of them, but for photographic work to switch from Olympus? I'm not seeing the draw there.
--
John Mason - Lafayette, IN

http://www.fototime.com/inv/407B931C53A9D9D