D300 vs D300s

deednets

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Has this been flogged to death?

Can buy D300 by the thousands ... (I am exaggerating!) here in NZ, so was wondering if there is anything I haven't figured out yet as to why there is a difference of up to 1000US$ equi between those 2 bodies second hand/near new ...

Sensor the same? Firmware the same?? IQ? Speed? Am I missing something?

Anybody here who has upgraded and thinks it was worth every penny?

Cheers
Deed
 
Couldn't care less for the dual card slots, FPS different too?? What I am trying to find out is whether the sensor technology is different, remember the discussions on whether or not the D2H adn the D2Hs sensors were the same??

Cheers
Deed
I have the D300. The D300S has dual card slots (CF and SD) and video capability. Otherwise same camera. I would not pay too much extra for a D300S
--
Laslo
http://www.digitalexpressionsphotography.com
 
I went directly from the D200 to the D300s. The main reason I "upgraded" was for the video--I have a seven-year-old granddaughter. For the $1000 difference down there, I'd buy the D300 and a camcorder if you want the video.

The dual memory card thing is a non-issue. I think the D300s focuses faster than my D200. Does the D300 have the personal menu the way the 300s does? That could be a deciding point--I love it.

Bruce
 
I think it does. I had the D70 first, then D200 and then tested the D300 vs the 40D and a 2DH - and bought a D2H second hand, then sold it to buy a brand new D2Hs, but like with all good thinks, sometimes it's nice to re-invent stuff and get something new, like a new stereo to listen to your old CDs with a new set of ears ...

I like the per pixel acuity of the D2Hs, but like to tinker in C1 v5 Pro and find that I get what I get ...

I guess I will need a new car too in the not-so-distant-future ...

Cheers
Deed
I went directly from the D200 to the D300s. The main reason I "upgraded" was for the video--I have a seven-year-old granddaughter. For the $1000 difference down there, I'd buy the D300 and a camcorder if you want the video.

The dual memory card thing is a non-issue. I think the D300s focuses faster than my D200. Does the D300 have the personal menu the way the 300s does? That could be a deciding point--I love it.

Bruce
 
the D300s has:
1. better sensor/firmware
2. dual MC slots for instant backup
3. Good video if you don't want to focus
4. info. button - ken rockwell likes this :)
5. slightly beter selector button at the back

numerous other things

the better ISO is the killer for me. Alot of D300 hacks don't tell you this as they don't realise:





I don't know what the exchange rate is but the D300s is the current model so there is always a premium. I would personaly pay 30-40% more for it that then D300, but not much more

rgds
Has this been flogged to death?

Can buy D300 by the thousands ... (I am exaggerating!) here in NZ, so was wondering if there is anything I haven't figured out yet as to why there is a difference of up to 1000US$ equi between those 2 bodies second hand/near new ...

Sensor the same? Firmware the same?? IQ? Speed? Am I missing something?

Anybody here who has upgraded and thinks it was worth every penny?

Cheers
Deed
 
Besides what has been mentioned above they are pretty much the same image wise. The D300 set the standard and unless video is important as well as the mention additions the D300 is still a killer of a deal for the price.

Take a look at the conclusions here at DPreview.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond300s/page30.asp
 
Not sure where you are getting your information from but the D300 and D300S have the same sensor. The D300S may have a slight firmware tweak but not worth the $100k ddifference. I have used both and vifrtually the same camera excpet for 2 card slots and video.
--
Laslo
http://www.digitalexpressionsphotography.com
 
I've had both - currently D300s, which I only got because I sold my D300 to try downsizing to m4/3 format before going back to Nikon(but that's another story...).

I believe there are small differences between the D300 and the D300s. Some make it better, in my opinion, and some make it worse (again, people differ on that point of view; more below for explanation). The question is: how much better - in dollar terms - is the D300s worth? If the difference between the two was something like $300 max, then it might be worth it; otherwise, I think you'd better off going with the D300.

What's better on the D300s:
  • Slightly better high ISO performance. In the same sense that the D90 was released after the D300 and the D90 performed slightly better than the D300 at high ISO with the same sensor, so does the D300s. I think the D300s is on par with the D90 in that respect. But don't think the D90 is just as good as the D300. The sensor might be the same, but not the electronics that make it work. I had a D90 (thinking I'd get the same quality pictures as the D300 while saving money). It just wasn't so. For example, the D90 had an over-exposure problem that I rarely experienced with the D300. But I'm digressing... The D300 was fine at high ISO.
  • Slightly better ergonomics. For example, the 4-way controller on the D300s has a dedicated centre "ok" button, which makes it better to use than the D300. On the D300, sometimes you'd want to press the centre of the 4-way controller, only to actually press left, or right, or top or down, instead. Not a deal breaker though.
  • Dual card slots. Have them, never had to use them. I wouldn't upgrade to D300s for that. Mind you, if you're shooting 1000s of photos a week - as some do - you might find this useful. But you mentioned you don't care for this feature, so moot point. Let's move on...
  • Slightly faster fps. Don't remember the numbers now, but I do remember that the D300s is 1 frame per second faster than the D300. Not really noticeable in real life in my experience - the D300 is fast enough for most action shots.
  • Dedicated live view button. Used it maybe...twice?....
  • Assignable function to access the top item in "My Menu". That, together with the centre "ok" button on the 4-way controller, is probably the most useful improvement on the D300s (and D700 btw). I have my top item in My Menu as "Set Picture Control". One click and I can change from Vivid to Portrait. Or you could set the top item in My Menu to control Auto ISO, or whatever. Really useful, this one.
What's better o the D300:

The following point is debated. Some people agree, some do not. I'm talking about how the D300s keeps the high ISO at its high level when you activate the internal flash, which I do not like. Scenario: shooting in poorly-lit room where the D300s indicates it has chosen 3200 ISO. I raise the flash because I want to go back down to 200 ISO, but the D300s keeps the ISO at 3200 AND uses the flash. With my D300, the ISO would drop to whatever value I set when I raised the flash, which I think is better. Yes, you could go manual this and manual that, and solve this problem. Point is, I liked it better on the D300. There is a way to solve this on the D300s and make it work as on the D300 by putting the flash mode in slave mode, but it emits this 'crackling' sound every time you fire, like something electronic is being 'tortured' inside the camera. Apparently, it's normal, but I still long for the D300's way.

Conclusion : get yourself a D300 with the lowest shutter count and in good condition you can, and you'll be set. The price difference you mentioned between the two is not worth it.

Of course, this is only my personal opinion...
 
....the better ISO is the killer for me. Alot of D300 hacks don't tell you this as they don't realise:....
I would be one of those 'hacks' and I shot both bodies side-by-side for several months.

The D300s does indeed have some nice ergonomic improvements and a couple of feature enhancements that are excellent but I could never tell any difference in image quality between the two regardless of ISO values being used.

Both excellent cameras, a clean second hand D300 is an exceptional buy these days.
--
Holmes
 
I've had both - currently D300s, which I only got because I sold my D300 to try downsizing to m4/3 format before going back to Nikon(but that's another story...).
Off topic : I find the m4/3 a bit intriguing as a second small walk-around/snap-shot solution. Care to share a few words of that other story?

------- Eirik ----------
 
Hi,

The D300s has a movie mode and the D300 does not. Otherwise, I think they are pretty much the same as far as final results are concerned. If you need a movie mode then go for the D300s. Otherwise, I'd stay with a D300 and save the money.
Mel
 
I've had both - currently D300s, which I only got because I sold my D300 to try downsizing to m4/3 format before going back to Nikon(but that's another story...).
Off topic : I find the m4/3 a bit intriguing as a second small walk-around/snap-shot solution. Care to share a few words of that other story?

------- Eirik ----------
To start with, apologies for hijacking this thread to answer Elrik...

Elrik, for me, the problem with m4/3 was :

1. it was not really "snapshot-size", in other words, still too big. For me, snapshot means one camera that fits in my pocket with its own lens: a one-in-all package. Carrying the 14-42mm and the 17mm f2.8 (or better, the Lumix 20mm f1.7), plus a flash, was just the same issue as with a DSLR, only smaller problem.

2. I tried to replace my DSLR with m4/3. That, coming from a good DSLR like the D300, was a mistake. My biggest gripe was that useless wheel at the back. I was in the mountains trekking and I wanted to take a picture of a flowing river. So, I set it to Shutter-priority mode to get a slow shutter speed and get that silky-looking effect of the water flowing. Of course, I had to adjust then the Ev compensation and the whole thing went downhill from there. I was turning that wheel, but doing so also was pressing some function that comes by pressing down on the right, left, up or down part of the wheel. So I was turning the wheel and changing inadvertently the ISO, the landscape to macro mode, and G** knows what else...Whereas with my D300 (now D300s) it's all so quick and transparent. That was when I had enough. Added to this, it's very hard to shoot anything that moves. Try looking at pictures people have taken with a m4/3 camera and see how many pictures are of things that move (not many...).

On the plus side, I got some very pleasing shots with my Olympus EP-1 and later EP-2. For example:





I also had a Lumix GF1, and a G1 (because of the viewfinder). Although possibly better cameras from a technical point of view (for example, faster AF), they were un-inspiring to me compared with the image quality from the Oly.

In the end, I got a D300s and, later, a Canon S90 as my snapshot camera. I tried the LX3 again (used to have one before) but didn't like it so much anymore. Also not quite pocketable, and that irritating lens cap... I also seriously considered the EPL-1, which I think would be my pick of the bunch in terms of m4/3: it's quite small (although nowhere near the S90), it has built-in flash, and it's very sharp due to a very weak anti-aliaising filter.

But I've been very pleased with the S90, both i terms of size, image quality, and ergonomics. Example of image quality with S90:





Right...back to the thread....Cheers.
 
WOW this sure is a detailled response! Thanks so much for pointing out the nitty-gritty bits about the auto iso flash issue!

Found your m3/4 points interesting because I thought I might like one of those GF1 with electronic viewfinder. But don't really want to go back to this very silly hold-the-cam-60cm-away-from-body-then-take-picture ...

Monty Python comes to mind

Cheers
Deed
I've had both - currently D300s, which I only got because I sold my D300 to try downsizing to m4/3 format before going back to Nikon(but that's another story...).

I believe there are small differences between the D300 and the D300s. Some make it better, in my opinion, and some make it worse (again, people differ on that point of view; more below for explanation). The question is: how much better - in dollar terms - is the D300s worth? If the difference between the two was something like $300 max, then it might be worth it; otherwise, I think you'd better off going with the D300.

What's better on the D300s:
  • Slightly better high ISO performance. In the same sense that the D90 was released after the D300 and the D90 performed slightly better than the D300 at high ISO with the same sensor, so does the D300s. I think the D300s is on par with the D90 in that respect. But don't think the D90 is just as good as the D300. The sensor might be the same, but not the electronics that make it work. I had a D90 (thinking I'd get the same quality pictures as the D300 while saving money). It just wasn't so. For example, the D90 had an over-exposure problem that I rarely experienced with the D300. But I'm digressing... The D300 was fine at high ISO.
  • Slightly better ergonomics. For example, the 4-way controller on the D300s has a dedicated centre "ok" button, which makes it better to use than the D300. On the D300, sometimes you'd want to press the centre of the 4-way controller, only to actually press left, or right, or top or down, instead. Not a deal breaker though.
  • Dual card slots. Have them, never had to use them. I wouldn't upgrade to D300s for that. Mind you, if you're shooting 1000s of photos a week - as some do - you might find this useful. But you mentioned you don't care for this feature, so moot point. Let's move on...
  • Slightly faster fps. Don't remember the numbers now, but I do remember that the D300s is 1 frame per second faster than the D300. Not really noticeable in real life in my experience - the D300 is fast enough for most action shots.
  • Dedicated live view button. Used it maybe...twice?....
  • Assignable function to access the top item in "My Menu". That, together with the centre "ok" button on the 4-way controller, is probably the most useful improvement on the D300s (and D700 btw). I have my top item in My Menu as "Set Picture Control". One click and I can change from Vivid to Portrait. Or you could set the top item in My Menu to control Auto ISO, or whatever. Really useful, this one.
What's better o the D300:

The following point is debated. Some people agree, some do not. I'm talking about how the D300s keeps the high ISO at its high level when you activate the internal flash, which I do not like. Scenario: shooting in poorly-lit room where the D300s indicates it has chosen 3200 ISO. I raise the flash because I want to go back down to 200 ISO, but the D300s keeps the ISO at 3200 AND uses the flash. With my D300, the ISO would drop to whatever value I set when I raised the flash, which I think is better. Yes, you could go manual this and manual that, and solve this problem. Point is, I liked it better on the D300. There is a way to solve this on the D300s and make it work as on the D300 by putting the flash mode in slave mode, but it emits this 'crackling' sound every time you fire, like something electronic is being 'tortured' inside the camera. Apparently, it's normal, but I still long for the D300's way.

Conclusion : get yourself a D300 with the lowest shutter count and in good condition you can, and you'll be set. The price difference you mentioned between the two is not worth it.

Of course, this is only my personal opinion...
 
It's already out, only called 7D and doesn't take my lenses ... but otherwise?? Would be happy with 7D specs in a D300s body ...

Find it amazing, that - again - here at the NIKON forum we are at a place where people say: Don't need FX, don't need more than 12Mp etc etc ... but then, when available - people jump on the bandwaggon and find it's what WE always wanted ...

Off topic but crossed my mind ... 720 video plenty, 12Mp in D700 plenty ...

nevermind.

Thanks for your thoughts!
At this point, I would just wait for the D400.
 
I've had both - currently D300s, which I only got because I sold my D300 to try downsizing to m4/3 format before going back to Nikon(but that's another story...).
Off topic : I find the m4/3 a bit intriguing as a second small walk-around/snap-shot solution. Care to share a few words of that other story?

------- Eirik ----------
To start with, apologies for hijacking this thread to answer Elrik...

Elrik, for me, the problem with m4/3 was :

1. it was not really "snapshot-size", in other words, still too big. For me, snapshot means one camera that fits in my pocket with its own lens: a one-in-all package. Carrying the 14-42mm and the 17mm f2.8 (or better, the Lumix 20mm f1.7), plus a flash, was just the same issue as with a DSLR, only smaller problem.

2. I tried to replace my DSLR with m4/3. That, coming from a good DSLR like the D300, was a mistake. My biggest gripe was that useless wheel at the back. I was in the mountains trekking and I wanted to take a picture of a flowing river. So, I set it to Shutter-priority mode to get a slow shutter speed and get that silky-looking effect of the water flowing. Of course, I had to adjust then the Ev compensation and the whole thing went downhill from there. I was turning that wheel, but doing so also was pressing some function that comes by pressing down on the right, left, up or down part of the wheel. So I was turning the wheel and changing inadvertently the ISO, the landscape to macro mode, and G** knows what else...Whereas with my D300 (now D300s) it's all so quick and transparent. That was when I had enough. Added to this, it's very hard to shoot anything that moves. Try looking at pictures people have taken with a m4/3 camera and see how many pictures are of things that move (not many...).
I also had a Lumix GF1, and a G1 (because of the viewfinder). Although possibly better cameras from a technical point of view (for example, faster AF), they were un-inspiring to me compared with the image quality from the Oly.

In the end, I got a D300s and, later, a Canon S90 as my snapshot camera. I tried the LX3 again (used to have one before) but didn't like it so much anymore. Also not quite pocketable, and that irritating lens cap... I also seriously considered the EPL-1, which I think would be my pick of the bunch in terms of m4/3: it's quite small (although nowhere near the S90), it has built-in flash, and it's very sharp due to a very weak anti-aliaising filter.

But I've been very pleased with the S90, both i terms of size, image quality, and ergonomics. Example of image quality with S90:
Right...back to the thread....Cheers.
Thanks a lot for taking your time for this digression from the thread topic, very enlightening. I guess I'll be on the fence a while longer regarding compact 2nd camera. I'll keep an eye on upcoming reviews on the Panasonic LX5 though.

------- Eirik ----------
 
Just found one difference that MIGHT be a dealbreaker for me: The D300s has "silent" trigger mode.

Is this useful or overrated? I have not had a chance to test the two and I am getting deaf, but ... you know... silent is not a bad thing I guess??

Ah, yes: Speaking of which: Another difference is the D-Lighting settings AUTO and HIGH ...

Are these any good, useful etc??

Cheers
Deed
 
As far as I'm concerned, Silent mode ain't that silent.

Go try it in a store and see if you reach the same conclusions as me about this but even if you find it more silent, doubt it's enough to be considered a deal breaker.
 
As far as D-Ligting goes, it's one of the first few things you want to turn off when you get the camera as it introduces more noise even at low ISO.
 

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