No more D2X type DX bodies?

[rayman 2]

If the rumored specs of the D95 are correct - 16 mp, magnesium body, 6-8 fps, 39 AF-points, 1080p video w AF, etc, I dont see much room for even a update to the D300S.

The D95 might be the new top DX (altough D300s will stay in the lineup for a while longer) and the real replacement for the D300 will be an FF. The new 24-120 and 28-300 seem to be made for "affordable" FF.

That only makes sense if "affordable" actually means "price that people who by the D300 today can afford." IOW, Prices for the bottom-of-the-line FF DSLRS must come down to levels that a larger group of buyers can actually afford . Otherwise Nikon will be selling fewer cameras, and I can promise you, they have no interest in doing so. As has been discussed before, yes, eventually FF prices will come down... but we're not there yet. FF sensors are just too expensive to manufacture.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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The reason for many to get a FF body is that they expect better lowlight capabilities then the Dx counterparts but quite frankly they will up the Mp count AND the lowlight capabilities with the D90 successor. i quite frankly expect it to be better then the D700 is today imagewise. The cry for FF will be for higher resolution

and that will be a camera the size of the D700 today with the image quality exceeding the D3x today... quite umbelievable but thats how things move nowadays or at least have been moving and I suspect will in the future...
Peter

 

[Kaj E]

And as has been said you can shoot your FX camera in DX crop mode. With the inevitable increase in pixel amount you will not be missing a DX camera for these bodies.

That assumes that DX cameras will not also increase in pixel counts. The only way today that I can get close to the DX 12MP count with a FX camera is to own the outrageously expensive D3X -- every other FX Nikon camera gives me less MP in crop mode than the available DX I can get today. Now, if DX never increases in MP (it just did!... to 14MP), then yes, FX will keep increasing in MP, and its crop will give me DX. But who says DX won't keep growing in MP as well, so that I still can't get a DX pixel count from the FX crop? That is of course, unless I am to be satisfied with the DX MP count from 2-3-5 years ago.

Bottom line: none of this argues against a professional build DX body.

Not my bottom line . I don't believe we will see another D2X like body from Nikon. Not a large enough market. The same can be achieved with a FX body, for which there is a large enough demand among pros and enthusiasts.

The megapixel count on both sensors (also FX) will keep growing and we are approaching what makes sense from an optical (lens quality) point of view. You will be able to use the crop mode on a FX to achieve comparable results as on a similar DX.

Compare today's D3x and D300. The slight difference in MP in DX mode is negligible in practical terms. The difference in FX vs. DX is significant, not only in resolution but also IQ.

The only advantage of DX over FX is in system compactness and weight (and price). A large DX body is counterproductive in this respect (consider also that prices will continue to come down).

--
Kind regards
Kaj
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It's about time we started to take photography seriously and treat it as a hobby.- Elliott Erwitt

 

[jfriend00]

What is a professional build body ?
I got icecream onto my D700 and it went right inside the ai lever of the

body and it is now stuck. it cost me 120 $ to get repaired...... there is nothing like
full sealing of a camera body.
I even managed to break the metal structure of an Fm2 10 years ago when
the tripod tipped over and the camera fell onto the side.....
Got a basketball onto my zoomlens 2 days ago... needs repair now.
Cameras and lenses nowadays are pretty delicate goods nowadays
quite an amount of money goes into repairs every year and thats just normal for
a working pro......

On the other hand, my D300 w/70-200 dropped off my monopod and fell five feet onto concrete and neither was damaged in any way. My D2Xs and 17-55 fell off my lap onto linoleum and were not damaged in any way.

Somehow, I doubt that a D3100 and 18-200 would have survived both of these falls. The amount of metal in the higher end bodies and higher end lenses must make a difference in these types of circumstances.

--
John
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[jfriend00]

The megapixel count on both sensors (also FX) will keep growing and we are approaching what makes sense from an optical (lens quality) point of view. You will be able to use the crop mode on a FX to achieve comparable results as on a similar DX.

Until Nikon offers a crop mode that uses the whole viewfinder rather than a teeny, tiny tunnel portion of the viewfinder, crop mode is a joke and will not be a reasonable substitute for getting additional reach. Go try shooting soccer in crop mode on an FX camera versus the full viewfinder of a D300s and see which you think works better.

--
John
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[JeffCole]

I hope you don't mean that "big body" is all this discussion is about? What about impact resistance, weather sealing, vertical grip, etc?

I'm not sure the mag alloy bodies are as impact resistant as you might think.

There was some talk of the older alum-alloy bodies like F4s being tougher and mag-alloy being more brittle and prone to cracking if dropped :-(

All I know is I'm not testing out that theory with my D700 vs F4s.
--
Jeff
http://www.jeffcole.smugmug.com

 

[rayman 2]

What is a professional build body ?
I got icecream onto my D700 and it went right inside the ai lever of the

body and it is now stuck. it cost me 120 $ to get repaired...... there is nothing like
full sealing of a camera body.
I even managed to break the metal structure of an Fm2 10 years ago when
the tripod tipped over and the camera fell onto the side.....
Got a basketball onto my zoomlens 2 days ago... needs repair now.
Cameras and lenses nowadays are pretty delicate goods nowadays
quite an amount of money goes into repairs every year and thats just normal for
a working pro......

On the other hand, my D300 w/70-200 dropped off my monopod and fell five feet onto concrete and neither was damaged in any way. My D2Xs and 17-55 fell off my lap onto linoleum and were not damaged in any way.

Somehow, I doubt that a D3100 and 18-200 would have survived both of these falls. The amount of metal in the higher end bodies and higher end lenses must make a difference in these types of circumstances.

--
John
Gallery: http://jfriend.smugmug.com
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Portfolio: http://jfriend.smugmug.com/portfolio

Depends on how it falls.....the strap of my camera bag went down the drain and

my all metal 2,8 80-200 Af dropped onto the front 20 years ago and I had a large dent in the filter screw... so thats all metal and it was broken... but it cost me 200 $ to have it repaired back then and its still working.......
always depends on the circumstances....
Peter

 

[PeterRH]

The reason for many to get a FF body is that they expect better lowlight capabilities then the Dx counterparts but quite frankly they will up the Mp count AND the lowlight capabilities with the D90 successor. i quite frankly expect it to be better then the D700 is today imagewise. The cry for FF will be for higher resolution

and that will be a camera the size of the D700 today with the image quality exceeding the D3x today... quite umbelievable but thats how things move nowadays or at least have been moving and I suspect will in the future...
Peter
=======================================

And exactly what persuaded me to wait, wait, and then wait some more....I haven't lost a single project because I shoot with a D2x (and, would you believe, a D70 as second camera).

Affordable FF with video is on the way and whether it is called semi-pro/prosumer is irrelevant. What is more relevant than ever before is what you are capable of producing from the equipment.

Peter
--
http://www.tigershootsback.co.uk

 

[Kaj E]

The megapixel count on both sensors (also FX) will keep growing and we are approaching what makes sense from an optical (lens quality) point of view. You will be able to use the crop mode on a FX to achieve comparable results as on a similar DX.

Until Nikon offers a crop mode that uses the whole viewfinder rather than a teeny, tiny tunnel portion of the viewfinder, crop mode is a joke and will not be a reasonable substitute for getting additional reach. Go try shooting soccer in crop mode on an FX camera versus the full viewfinder of a D300s and see which you think works better.

In my opinion the DX crop in the viewfinder is not that teeny. I actually have tried the crop mode on my D700 a couple of times and i think it actually is quite helpful for action shots to see a bit outside the DX frame so you can make the shot before something disturbing enters the DX frame. The D700 does unfortunately not have sufficient pixel density in the DX crop, but that's another story.

If you don't like it you can of course use FX mode and a longer lens as most professional sports shooters seem to do. and gain the additional advantages of FX (at the expense of weight and bulk).

I just don't think there would be a sufficient market for a D2X type body anymore.
--
Kind regards
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WSSA member

It's about time we started to take photography seriously and treat it as a hobby.- Elliott Erwitt

 

[jfriend00]

If you don't like it you can of course use FX mode and a longer lens as most professional sports shooters seem to do. and gain the additional advantages of FX (at the expense of weight and bulk).

Addtional cost. Additional weight. And, no equivalent zoom range to my 200-400 on the D300. It's a crummy tradeoff when you need reach with zoom.

I don't actually need the larger body (I'm OK with using the add-on grip), but I do wish I could have DX format reach with the best AF Nikon can make. We know the D3s has a shorter mirror blackout time (which really helps AF at max fps and in lower light), it has more fps and it has faster focus CPU processing (try taking shots on a difficult target in focus priority at max fps on a D300 and it will stutter, but the D3 will not).

As for the pros, I think I have a different assignment than most pros. I have to get good shots of every soccer player on the team in one particular game while being limited to only certain shooting positions. It's not hard to get good soccer shots of the offense. You hang out behind the end line with your favorite prime. But, try getting good shots of the goalie and all the defenders and midfielders. That takes a lot more flexibility and reach.

I'm not sure how large the market would be for such a camera. If you keep the D300s body size, it's just a few features added to the D400 to make it truly top of the line AF. Why not give your top of the line DX body the best AF you know how to make?
--
John
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[PerL]

If the rumored specs of the D95 are correct - 16 mp, magnesium body, 6-8 fps, 39 AF-points, 1080p video w AF, etc, I dont see much room for even a update to the D300S.

The D95 might be the new top DX (altough D300s will stay in the lineup for a while longer) and the real replacement for the D300 will be an FF. The new 24-120 and 28-300 seem to be made for "affordable" FF.

That only makes sense if "affordable" actually means "price that people who by the D300 today can afford." IOW, Prices for the bottom-of-the-line FF DSLRS must come down to levels that a larger group of buyers can actually afford . Otherwise Nikon will be selling fewer cameras, and I can promise you, they have no interest in doing so. As has been discussed before, yes, eventually FF prices will come down... but we're not there yet. FF sensors are just too expensive to manufacture.

The difference in price between the D300s at the moment when it was introduced and the D700 was only about 25 percent (now the price of the D300s has gone down vs the D700 and there is a larger gap). It should not be impossible to get the FF price down a bit, considering that the D700 has first class build.

I also believe that the D95 will compete against the 7D by being close in specs and performance, but at a considerable lower price - and smaller, more compact build (D90 size). I have always thought that the D300, altough excellent, is too large and heavy for not being FF, the 7D has almost excatly the same size and weight.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's easy to argue about equipment and technique, but hard to argue with a good photograph -- and more difficult to capture one .



Gallery and blog: http://esfotoclix.com
Special selections: http://esfotoclix.com/store
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Flickr stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22061657@N03

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[SixDasher]

OP is not asking about a budget plastic DSLR with a few bells and whistles, but about a pro body with DX sensor. If you don't get why he wants this type of body, you're in the wrong forum.

--
Ai-S all the way!

 

[SixDasher]

Sorry, but DX is a thing of the past in the single digit D series. Why not just shoot FX ?

The only reason I could think of is the 1.5x crop factor, but if you're a pro then you can justify getting the larger lens or TC. If you're not, then there is the D300s.

So the answer to OP's question is: no.

--
Ai-S all the way!

 

[SixDasher]

Cameras and lenses have always been fragile. A baseball to the lens or dropping on a tripod has always done damage that needed repairs.

--
Ai-S all the way!

 

[SixDasher]

Shoot FX then and get a longer lens.

--
Ai-S all the way!

 

[SixDasher]

That´s a pipe-dream. The D3s only has a stop better perfomance in terms of High-iso. To think that a 16MP DX will perform better than that is really far fetched.

--
Ai-S all the way!

 

[rayman 2]

That´s a pipe-dream. The D3s only has a stop better perfomance in terms of High-iso. To think that a 16MP DX will perform better than that is really far fetched.

--
Ai-S all the way!

The dx sensor successor will have the same high iso quality the d700 had...
thats probably a given...... the d700 successor will go much further probably
a long line of the D3s.....
Peter

 

[SixDasher]

D300s is the direct competition for the 7D, not the D90.

The D95 body may become magnesium, but so it that of the 10D-50D. It's more of a direct competition now with these two models (D95/60D) to make room for the D400 to be upgraded to match the 7D class.

Leaving a large gap between the 5000D and D95 would mean leaving room for the competitors to take that segment.

D3100 - D5000 - D95 - D300s - D700 - D3s - D3x covers all bases, just like
500D - 550D - 60D - 7D - 5D2 - 1D4 - 1Ds3

But judging by the numbering scheme, they could also be up to something else

--
Ai-S all the way!

 

[rayman 2]

OP is not asking about a budget plastic DSLR with a few bells and whistles, but about a pro body with DX sensor. If you don't get why he wants this type of body, you're in the wrong forum.

--
Ai-S all the way!

You pobably didnt get why i said that because the plastic dslr your referring to
both outresolves and beats the D2x by a mile in imagequality....
Thats what we are seeinn with every leap that digital is making from generation
to generation.....
its only the pro body thing that the d2x excells and the speed...both of the
picturesequence and the autofocus....

 

[SixDasher]

That's why he is asking if they will come out with a new one.

--
Ai-S all the way!

 

[Kaj E]

I have always thought that the D300, altough excellent, is too large and heavy for not being FF, the 7D has almost excatly the same size and weight.

And it a crop size (1.6x) camera.

--
Kind regards
Kaj
http://www.pbase.com/kaj_e
WSSA member

It's about time we started to take photography seriously and treat it as a hobby.- Elliott Erwitt