I respectfully disagree with your contentions that photographs are merely entertainment and that photojournalists are delusional in thinking their images matter. The digital age has created problems with photographers manipulating their images beyond reality, but photographs and negatives have been used in courtrooms for decades. These days, digital cameras are used to record crime scenes, evidence, etc., with a strict chain of command, so to speak, with memory cards with unmanipulated images secured just as evidence is secured.
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Cropped? How to know?
- Thread starter Bali_Mirage
- Start date
christianhough
Senior Member
Personally, I've no idea, so sorry I can't help you. However, I do recall that Canon had some form of data verification a little while back???
However, reading some of the responses has been fairly amusing. Such a diatribe of over-sensitive and self-righteous nonsense it defies belief. However, be grateful that some balance was struck with a few regular and longer term members...ohhhh, for a moderated forum! Still, I see a that very few respondents actually answered your question (me included); or even attempted. I did however think that your question was perfectly clear. It's no wonder the world is constantly at war!
In terms of court and legality etc, I suggest you ignore most responses here as most don't know their @rse from their elbow! I gather you know this already...
Good luck
Christian
http://www.christianhough.com
However, reading some of the responses has been fairly amusing. Such a diatribe of over-sensitive and self-righteous nonsense it defies belief. However, be grateful that some balance was struck with a few regular and longer term members...ohhhh, for a moderated forum! Still, I see a that very few respondents actually answered your question (me included); or even attempted. I did however think that your question was perfectly clear. It's no wonder the world is constantly at war!
In terms of court and legality etc, I suggest you ignore most responses here as most don't know their @rse from their elbow! I gather you know this already...
Good luck
Christian
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http://www.christianhough.com
Tom Bennett
Senior Member
not for you. not mad at you. it was for the orginal poster
something went wrong in the post
something went wrong in the post
Tom Bennett
Senior Member
It has been totaly defeated as to proving a file was valid. They did a test of changing files and reloading them on the cards then ran the test it came back as a valid picture
You missed that the OP had said that the images had been resized. They all had (much) less than the original file size and probably all even had the same dimensions.
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'Well, 'Zooming with your feet' is usually a stupid thing as zoom rings are designed for hands.' (Me, 2006)
My Homepage: http://www.JensRoesner.de
antoineb
Veteran Member
Which rule book says that cropping is illegal? ;-)
JulesJ
Forum Pro
aardvaark. The OP asked a question which he has every right to ask and was a 100% relevent question. Your comments below are dumb at least, impertanet and uncalled for.
jules
Wouldn't it be great is the ESC key on PCs did something?
jules
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Wouldn't it be great is the ESC key on PCs did something?
A
aardvark7
Guest
The question of relevancy rested entirely with the OP and was certainly in doubt given the lack of reasons and qualifications given relating to his query. This has been echoed, justifiably, by numerous others in this thread.
Furthermore, the OP used the word 'confront' which has overtones of aggression, as opposed to simply asking the supplier of the pictures as to the manner of his workflow. This was entirely uncalled for, as is your attack on me.
I think you need to not only learn the spelling of impertinent, you need to learn its meaning.
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Get busy living, or get busy dying...
Furthermore, the OP used the word 'confront' which has overtones of aggression, as opposed to simply asking the supplier of the pictures as to the manner of his workflow. This was entirely uncalled for, as is your attack on me.
I think you need to not only learn the spelling of impertinent, you need to learn its meaning.
--
Get busy living, or get busy dying...
JulesJ
Forum Pro
The OP asked if there was any way to know whetyher pictures supplied to him had been cropped. That was his only question. He did say he was going to confront the supplier but I would question whether this was meant in an aggressive way.
Your reply, the first post after this question, not only did not answer the question which was the sole intent of the OP's posting but also questioned whether cropping was the issue. Well since that was what the OP was asking i would say it was the issue wouldn't you. hence I regard your reply of little use and a bit rude. That's just the way I saw it.
jules
Wouldn't it be great is the ESC key on PCs did something?
Your reply, the first post after this question, not only did not answer the question which was the sole intent of the OP's posting but also questioned whether cropping was the issue. Well since that was what the OP was asking i would say it was the issue wouldn't you. hence I regard your reply of little use and a bit rude. That's just the way I saw it.
jules
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Wouldn't it be great is the ESC key on PCs did something?
JulesJ
Forum Pro
it obviously matters to him, why would he ask otherwise?
Jules
Wouldn't it be great is the ESC key on PCs did something?
Jules
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Wouldn't it be great is the ESC key on PCs did something?
Martin Datzinger
Senior Member
I guess I can't help you. If I'd want to do what you suspect the photographer to have done, I'd crop and rescale to the camera's original pixel dimensions and replace the resulting image's EXIF data with the original's (there are tools available for this for free). If the crop wasn't excessive, you probably couldn't even see the quality loss that comes with this.
But please remember, you just don't need to crop to hide something. You can just compose to leave it out before the shot.
In fact, the most powerfull manipulations you can do to an image are those before the shutter clicks. That's what people tend to forget when they come with the knee-jerk statement that every digital picture is just fraud.
Kind regards,
Martin
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http://www.datzinger.net
But please remember, you just don't need to crop to hide something. You can just compose to leave it out before the shot.
In fact, the most powerfull manipulations you can do to an image are those before the shutter clicks. That's what people tend to forget when they come with the knee-jerk statement that every digital picture is just fraud.
Kind regards,
Martin
--
http://www.datzinger.net
JulesJ
Forum Pro
bali, you mustn'yt ask this question. It has already been pointed out on this thread that it is not right or proper to have such a query! Lol.
But, having said that, I reckon if you have the Exif info and hence know what camera took the shot, you could find out how many pixels across and down each files size for the different sizes that camera shoot are meant to be and check the size of the file that you have and see if they correspond with any of them. That way you could tell if the shot had been cropped.
Jules
Wouldn't it be great is the ESC key on PCs did something?
But, having said that, I reckon if you have the Exif info and hence know what camera took the shot, you could find out how many pixels across and down each files size for the different sizes that camera shoot are meant to be and check the size of the file that you have and see if they correspond with any of them. That way you could tell if the shot had been cropped.
Jules
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Wouldn't it be great is the ESC key on PCs did something?
JulesJ
Forum Pro
What is so arrogant about asking a question. Almost every question asked on DPR could be answered by Googling. Why don't we just kill conversation and all rely on Google! Wouldn't life be a laugh? I would question who the arrogant person is!
Jules
Wouldn't it be great is the ESC key on PCs did something?
Jules
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Wouldn't it be great is the ESC key on PCs did something?
JulesJ
Forum Pro
Unless of course you manipulate an image, print it and rephotograph it!
Jules
Wouldn't it be great is the ESC key on PCs did something?
Jules
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Wouldn't it be great is the ESC key on PCs did something?
Martin Datzinger
Senior Member
as soon as you take the shot.
Now I'm pretty sure there are strict guidelines for law enforcement photographers, etc. But basically you can't take an image without manipulating, no matter what happens with the image after the shot. Composition, timing, light, perspective, just adding or removing something physically before the shot, all that can be done without any sort of digital trickery. And then of course there are all the things that might have been manipulated before the photographer actually enters the scene!
Kind regards,
Martin
--
http://www.datzinger.net
Now I'm pretty sure there are strict guidelines for law enforcement photographers, etc. But basically you can't take an image without manipulating, no matter what happens with the image after the shot. Composition, timing, light, perspective, just adding or removing something physically before the shot, all that can be done without any sort of digital trickery. And then of course there are all the things that might have been manipulated before the photographer actually enters the scene!
Kind regards,
Martin
--
http://www.datzinger.net
christianhough
Senior Member
Yes agree. Lots of opinion and subjective assumptions, but nobody answering the question. There's nothing vague about the OP's question whatsoever.
If this was the agreement that was made between the client and photographer, then the client has every right to confront the photographer how they wish; however, whether it will illicit the desired response remains to be seen.
Perhaps somebody can answer the OP's questions as opposed to speculating on the contractual relationship between him and the photographer?
Christian
If this was the agreement that was made between the client and photographer, then the client has every right to confront the photographer how they wish; however, whether it will illicit the desired response remains to be seen.
Perhaps somebody can answer the OP's questions as opposed to speculating on the contractual relationship between him and the photographer?
Christian
A
aardvark7
Guest
With regard to the tone of the OP, the word 'confront' is rarely be seen in any other light than aggressive. Perhaps he should have expressed himself differently if that was not his intent, but I can hardly be taken to task over his error.
As to the issue at hand, the very nature of cropping means the question he posed is entirely moot. When you point a camera and fire the shutter you do not encompass everything that is around at the given moment. By definition, depending upon the lens used and the format of camera, the image is 'cropped'. You will be left with an image that has an angle and limit of inclusion. With the limited information given, the OP might just as well have asked if it is possible to determine whether a picture is taken whilst riding a bicycle or walking.
Consequently, I maintain that my response was entirely accurate and justified. It was not even 'a bit rude', let alone as your initial assertion, to which I took great exception.
--
Get busy living, or get busy dying...
As to the issue at hand, the very nature of cropping means the question he posed is entirely moot. When you point a camera and fire the shutter you do not encompass everything that is around at the given moment. By definition, depending upon the lens used and the format of camera, the image is 'cropped'. You will be left with an image that has an angle and limit of inclusion. With the limited information given, the OP might just as well have asked if it is possible to determine whether a picture is taken whilst riding a bicycle or walking.
Consequently, I maintain that my response was entirely accurate and justified. It was not even 'a bit rude', let alone as your initial assertion, to which I took great exception.
--
Get busy living, or get busy dying...
JulesJ
Forum Pro
I live in London and sometimes have trouble understanding people from other parts of my country because of their regional accents. The OP comes from a place, although English speaking, that has many variatins in the meaning of the same words that we use.
You are quite simple splitting hairs a sto the meaning of cropping to suit your arguement. QED.
jules
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Wouldn't it be great is the ESC key on PCs did something?
Bill McLeod
Senior Member
Interesting. I have been involved in legal cases in Canada before when photographing crime scenes, accidents, and fatalities. Cropping and manipulation to more easily see what was shown in the imagery was very much allowed as long as I was prepared to testify about what I had done to the images.
It would defeat the purpose to not be able to manipulate the images to show contrast if you were trying to show a fingerprint in clear detail, for example. Which I have done.
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