Extra Magnification on Macro Lenses

[William Warby]

I own the Olympus E-3 and 35mm Macro lens. I have an odd fascination with macro photography and getting as close as possible to a subject - with my current equipment I can fill about half the frame with an ant, but I'd really like to be able to get closer and have smaller subjects appear even bigger in the frame. Although I don't fully understand the maths behind it, I have been told previously that the EC-20 and EX-25 can both help a little with this goal. However, I was just doing a little browsing when I came across this product: http://www.kenro.co.uk/product/ACHROMAT200_Group/3/503/Marumi+Achromat+Macro+Lenses+Grade+%2B5.html

It claims to give a magnification factor of +5. I don't know exactly what that means, but it sounds awfully like it can amplify the natural magnification factor of the lens to which it is attached by a factor of 5. The fact that it's a fifth of the price of the EC-20 which only doubles magnification though makes me think I've misunderstood what it is and what it does. Can anyone enlighten me?

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[Breiny]

Effectively this is like a set of reading glasses for your lens. It does indeed magnify the image however (even though its an achromat) it is certainly not as high optical quality as your zuiko lenses and you cannot focus anywhere near infinity. I played around with one and found that I had to stop my lens down almost all the way to f22 to get a decent image (and then it was a bit soft from diffraction.

That being said, these are a bit of fun to play around with AND I know there are a few people around here that seem to get some great images using something like this.

Cheers.

 

[Sergey_Green]

1. Reverse lens, like 50mm or 28mm.
http://goto.glocalnet.net/savazzi.net/photography/nikonbr2a.htm

2. Closeup filter. Here is Canon 500D
http://www.craigingramphoto.com.au/equipment/500d.html

3. Macro bellows,

http://mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/contax/shared/macro/index.htm

4. Extension rings
When you know what they look like .

My personal preference is the second option, on the macro lens.

http://www.pbase.com/sngreen

 

[Sergey_Green]

I own the Olympus E-3 and 35mm Macro lens. I have an odd fascination with macro photography and getting as close as possible to a subject - with my current equipment I can fill about half the frame with an ant, but I'd really like to be able to get closer and have smaller subjects appear even bigger in the frame. Although I don't fully understand the maths behind it, I have been told previously that the EC-20 and EX-25 can both help a little with this goal. However, I was just doing a little browsing when I came across this product: http://www.kenro.co.uk/product/ACHROMAT200_Group/3/503/Marumi+Achromat+Macro+Lenses+Grade+%2B5.html

It claims to give a magnification factor of +5. I don't know exactly what that means, but it sounds awfully like it can amplify the natural magnification factor of the lens to which it is attached by a factor of 5. The fact that it's a fifth of the price of the EC-20 which only doubles magnification though makes me think I've misunderstood what it is and what it does. Can anyone enlighten me?

And if macro is your thing, get Canon with Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8 1-5x on it,

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1030&message=31587605

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/eos/EF-lenses/MP-E65mmf28MACRO/index.htm

I do not think you can mount Canon lens on Olympus body.

http://www.pbase.com/sngreen

 

[photo_owl]

think of it as sticking a magnifying glass in front of your lens - it's pretty simple.

now the issue becomes 'how good a quality is my magnifying glass?' and, of course, can my lens handle being magnified - warts and all?

there are some high quality examples of these lenses, canon 500D springs to mind, which have multipul elements, but the cheap ones are - cheap.

I may try sticking the ECs and EX on a 35 later today to see what I get but suspect the focus distance will become limiting with the ex (and lighting will certainly become limited!) whilst the EC20 may well be the better option all round.

--

• enjoy your camera equipment -

 

[John King]

Gidday William

I own the Olympus E-3 and 35mm Macro lens. I have an odd fascination with macro photography and getting as close as possible to a subject - with my current equipment I can fill about half the frame with an ant, but I'd really like to be able to get closer and have smaller subjects appear even bigger in the frame. Although I don't fully understand the maths behind it, I have been told previously that the EC-20 and EX-25 can both help a little with this goal. However, I was just doing a little browsing when I came across this product: http://www.kenro.co.uk/product/ACHROMAT200_Group/3/503/Marumi+Achromat+Macro+Lenses+Grade+%2B5.html

It claims to give a magnification factor of +5. I don't know exactly what that means, but it sounds awfully like it can amplify the natural magnification factor of the lens to which it is attached by a factor of 5. The fact that it's a fifth of the price of the EC-20 which only doubles magnification though makes me think I've misunderstood what it is and what it does. Can anyone enlighten me?

Probably the very best route to follow is to get hold of either the Olympus (or Nikon?) MF Macro-photography kits.

The Olympus OM kit came with bellows, special macro lenses (20, 38, 80, 130 and enlarging ... ) and a whole lot of other stuff. I had a chance to buy one of these for about Oz$900, complete with carrying case about 10 years ago, but passed it up ...

For starters, I understand that the Raynox macro lenses are very good. Luis Florit is pretty experienced with them. Raynox' web site is here:
http://www.raynox.co.jp/english/digital/d_slr/index.html

Some thoughts by Luis here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=31373544

--
Regards, john from Melbourne, Australia.
-- -- --

The Camera doth not make the Man (or Woman) ...
Perhaps being kind to cats, dogs & children does ...

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[Sergey_Green]

think of it as sticking a magnifying glass in front of your lens - it's pretty simple.

There are few good things about it;

1. No light is lost for focusing
2. Lens does not need to be changed (in the field it is very important)

now the issue becomes 'how good a quality is my magnifying glass?' and, of course, can my lens handle being magnified - warts and all?

It will not resolve more than what the lens can do, true.

there are some high quality examples of these lenses, canon 500D springs to mind, which have multipul elements, but the cheap ones are - cheap.

I think I also have Tokina, and it is good. I tried it in Spring somewhere. Nikon closeups are also excellent. The Canon 500D is a fantastic lens!

The problem with 35mm is that it has very short working distance already, so with closeup in front it it may become quite useless.

I may try sticking the ECs and EX on a 35 later today to see what I get but suspect the focus distance will become limiting with the ex (and lighting will certainly become limited!) whilst the EC20 may well be the better option all round.

Extension rings do usually work the best with the longer lenses. The shorter lens will only become unbearably dim and with little benefit to magnification.

http://www.pbase.com/sngreen

 

[MarkoLV]

I use E-3 with 50mm+EX25....and think it's great.....

 

[Tbolt47]

First off those price in your link are expensive this is a lot better price http://www.red-onions.co.uk/product_info.php?language=en&currency=GBP&products_id=66377

I use a Marumi AM +3 on my 50-200 and think they are very good. I wouldn't want to use one on the 35mm macro as the working distance is already short and a close-up lens just means you have to move closer, they really need to go on a lens with a longer focal length. Here's a couple with the 50-200 and +3 - the first on is cropped slightly - I have a EC14 also but the DoF gets so shallow with this on it's easier to take pictures without it and crop a little.

 

[Timskis6]

Well that's not fair, you're suggesting that by buying that lense you're going to achieve images like the one you linked to below. In fact, that image has little to do with the lense, and more to do with the setup and processing software.

And if macro is your thing, get Canon with Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8 1-5x on it,

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1030&message=31587605

--
Tim
'I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list.'
E3/7-14/12-60/150/50-200/25/25/EC-14
http://www.flickr.com/photos/timskis6/

 

[LensHappy]

I think another factor to consider is the strain on the Oly lens's motor. The Achromat is two thick lenses cemented together. It is much heavier than a standard filter. If you are going to be shooting in AF mode, I think this would eventually cause premature failure of you Oly lens's motor. However, if shooting strictly in MF mode, I think the strain would not be a factor.

 

[Trevor Carpenter]

There is another way of course. Get yourself a cheap P&S with a decent lens and stick a Raynox 250 on the front. You have to spend a lot of money on a DSLR lens before you get close to the performance you can get from these. And the DOF issues are minimal compared to using your DSLR. Of course once you spend enough you overtake the capability and quality of the P&S. These two guys are smaller than ants taken with FZ50 and Raynox 250. There are people who can do much more impressive things than me with this combo.





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Oly e-fivetwenty, seventy-threehundred, eFZed50, Oly TeeCON17, RaynoxDCR150 DCR250
My Galleries are at
http://picasaweb.google.com/trevorfcarpenter

 

[efrench]

There are way too many ways to greater than 1:1 macros to list here. Which one you choose depends on your subject and your abilities. Someone should start a thread for everyone to show their rig.

Here's a link to mine: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v649/etfrench/Spherical%20Pano%20Head/?albumview=slideshow

The forums on http://www.photomacrography.com have quite a few discussions about this.

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http://www.efrench.members.winisp.net/

 

[ginsbu]

I wouldn't want to use one on the 35mm macro as the working distance is already short and a close-up lens just means you have to move closer, they really need to go on a lens with a longer focal length.

QFT. Close-up lenses allow you to get higher magnifications by reducing the minimal focus distance, enabling you to get closer, but you can already get extremely close with the 35mm. They're not what you're looking for. (Close up lenses actually slightly reduce the focal length of the combined lens system.)

What you need is a longer focal length lens. If it doesn't allow you to get close enough for the magnification you want, then add an extension tube or close-up lens to reduce the minimum focus distance. If you're as close as you can stand but still not getting the desired magnification, then get a lens with an even longer focal length.

One helpful thing to remember about close-up lenses should you decide to try them: the maximum focus distance of the combined lens system in meters is approximately 1 / diopter of the close-up lens. So a +1 diopter lens allows to focusing up to about 3' away, +2 diopter up to 20", +4 10", +8 5", etc. This will help you estimate how strong a close-up lens you can use without getting too close to your subject. (The minimum focus distance of the system depends on the design of the lens you're attaching the close-up filter to, so there's no general rule for estimating that.)

If you've still got the 70-300mm you mention in your older posts, that would be a good candidate for close-up lenses or an extension tube.

 

[luisflorit]

Don't waste your time, Trevor. DSRL users don't want to know about achromats (although no one was able to tell me why). I suppose they love to change lenses to waste time and talk about dust on the sensor...

A fresh one for the weekend (E3+50-200+Raynox 150):



I have never considered a macro lens for my Oly. Not needed if you have a Raynox and the 50-200.

Cheers,
L.

--
My gallery: http://w3.impa.br/~luis/photos



Oly Ee3 + 12--60 + 50--200 + EeC-14 + Oly EfEl50R
Pany FZee50 + Oly EfEl50 + TeeCon17 + Raynx 150 & 250
Nikn CeePee4500; Cann SDee500

 

[Trevor Carpenter]

Don't waste your time, Trevor. DSRL users don't want to know about achromats (although no one was able to tell me why). I suppose they love to change lenses to waste time and talk about dust on the sensor...

I have never considered a macro lens for my Oly. Not needed if you have a Raynox and the 50-200.

That is beautiful Luis, surely anybody would appreciate what you have achieved with the Raynox there
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Oly e-fivetwenty, seventy-threehundred, eFZed50, Oly TeeCON17, RaynoxDCR150 DCR250
My Galleries are at
http://picasaweb.google.com/trevorfcarpenter

 

[Trevor Carpenter]

Don't waste your time, Trevor. DSRL users don't want to know about achromats (although no one was able to tell me why). I suppose they love to change lenses to waste time and talk about dust on the sensor...

A fresh one for the weekend (E3+50-200+Raynox 150):

I have never considered a macro lens for my Oly. Not needed if you have a Raynox and the 50-200.

I'm amazed at how right you are Luis. I thought that after posting that Bee, the acolades would come flying in but instead the thread dies. What is about this very simple solution that people don't like?

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Oly e-fivetwenty, seventy-threehundred, eFZed50, Oly TeeCON17, RaynoxDCR150 DCR250
My Galleries are at
http://picasaweb.google.com/trevorfcarpenter

 

[luisflorit]

I have never considered a macro lens for my Oly. Not needed if you have a Raynox and the 50-200.

I'm amazed at how right you are Luis. I thought that after posting that Bee, the acolades would come flying in but instead the thread dies. What is about this very simple solution that people don't like?

I have no idea, but people just don't know why not. I knew about this because I opened a specific thread asking why Oly DSLR users insist on using normal macro lenses. Not only I didn't get many answers, but, worse, no one was able to give me just one good reason 'why not', or even why it is better a lens. And I gave a long list with the pros of the Raynox over a normal macro lens...

Many achromats have low quality, others need to be threaded, perhaps it is that? But, AFAIK, only the Raynox doesn't have any of these two problems. They still lust on something like a Sigma macro lens.

Anway, let us enjoy our toys!

L.

--
My gallery: http://w3.impa.br/~luis/photos



Oly Ee3 + 12--60 + 50--200 + EeC-14 + Oly EfEl50R
Pany FZee50 + Oly EfEl50 + TeeCon17 + Raynx 150 & 250
Nikn CeePee4500; Cann SDee500

 

[efrench]

I have never considered a macro lens for my Oly. Not needed if you have a Raynox and the 50-200.

I'm amazed at how right you are Luis. I thought that after posting that Bee, the acolades would come flying in but instead the thread dies. What is about this very simple solution that people don't like?

I have no idea, but people just don't know why not. I knew about this because I opened a specific thread asking why Oly DSLR users insist on using normal macro lenses. Not only I didn't get many answers, but, worse, no one was able to give me just one good reason 'why not', or even why it is better a lens. And I gave a long list with the pros of the Raynox over a normal macro lens...

Many achromats have low quality, others need to be threaded, perhaps it is that? But, AFAIK, only the Raynox doesn't have any of these two problems. They still lust on something like a Sigma macro lens.

Anway, let us enjoy our toys!

Macro threads don't tend to get a ton of responses to begin with Bees images are also a little to common to generate a lot of comments, although a 10X image of a live bee's eye may.

Web size postings really don't tell you how good a lens is. Just about anything will look sharp at web size. I'd be interested in seeing some 100% crops of a Raynox image that has very fine detail.

--
http://www.efrench.members.winisp.net/

 

[krh_57]

Nothing wrong with the Oly 50-200 & Raynox 150 combo Luis, I have seen many shots you taken, both macro and birds and have always enjoyed and learned from your work.

If you really enjoy what you have to work with, your photo's will show it.

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Regards... Ken