Zenfolio

[Nonac Nokin]

I checked both Smugmug and Zenfolio and decided to contunie with Zenfolio.

Zenfolio is much easier to start and create a page. Their default looks better (at least for me and many others).

The only Smugmug advantage today is a customization capability.
Zenfolio is going to add it very soon ()talking about weeks, not months).

In addition to that, Zenfolio is planning to allow customizations using tools, i.e. without any need in programming in HTML or CSS.

Their opinion is that photographers are not programmers. Although I don't have a problem with that, I like the idea and I prefer using and existing GUI instead of writing code.
There is more than enough programming in the office...

BTW, for the same set of features, Smugmug is much more expensive than Zenfolio.

 

[Julian Vrieslander]

I have a Zenfolio account that I use for sharing photos with friends and relatives - I have not used the selling or printing features. I am mostly satisifed with the service, but have a few reservations.

New visitors tell me that the user interface is somewhat obscure. The page designs are elegant, but some of the navigation elements are hidden. Visitors have to explore and experiment to discover these controls. Some visitors, who are less computer-savvy, have a harder time with this. A few of the UI elements could be improved. For example, the pop-up slideshow navigation bar competes with the Mac OS X Dock (in its default location at screen bottom).

I have also noticed that images lose a bit of saturation. Compare this shot, as shown on a Zenfolio page (expand your browser window to see it at original size):

http://julianv.zenfolio.com/p224621289/e1a7f939b

against a direct link to the file on their server:

http://julianv.zenfolio.com/img/v5/p444568475.jpg

On my browser (Mac OS X, Safari, calibrated monitor), the direct linked file has more snap, more vivid reds and yellows. The file was uploaded in sRGB without an embedded profile, but I see the same difference if the profile is embedded. Unless I am missing something, it appears that the image data in my file is being modified when it is rendered on the Zenfolio gallery page.

 

[Nonac Nokin]

I opened both in FireFox. It seems I see what you mean.

However when I zoomed out (twice) the original in FireFox using Ctrl+'-' I got the same result as in the reduced zenfolio image.

I believe what you and I see is either browser's side effect or just some visual effect when bigger image with larger amount of bright pixels looks more vivid etc.

I have a Zenfolio account that I use for sharing photos with friends
and relatives - I have not used the selling or printing features. I
am mostly satisifed with the service, but have a few reservations.

New visitors tell me that the user interface is somewhat obscure.
The page designs are elegant, but some of the navigation elements are
hidden. Visitors have to explore and experiment to discover these
controls. Some visitors, who are less computer-savvy, have a harder
time with this. A few of the UI elements could be improved. For
example, the pop-up slideshow navigation bar competes with the Mac OS
X Dock (in its default location at screen bottom).

I have also noticed that images lose a bit of saturation. Compare
this shot, as shown on a Zenfolio page (expand your browser window to
see it at original size):

http://julianv.zenfolio.com/p224621289/e1a7f939b

against a direct link to the file on their server:

http://julianv.zenfolio.com/img/v5/p444568475.jpg

On my browser (Mac OS X, Safari, calibrated monitor), the direct
linked file has more snap, more vivid reds and yellows. The file was
uploaded in sRGB without an embedded profile, but I see the same
difference if the profile is embedded. Unless I am missing
something, it appears that the image data in my file is being
modified when it is rendered on the Zenfolio gallery page.

 

[Gordon J Smith]

locked into a set list of labs?

Gordon

 

[RoscoT]

From what I read on their site, you have a choice of partner labs. Which ones are dependent on your location.
--
Rosco
My Advise is always free. So take it at it's face value
http://www.pbase.com/roscot

 

[Julian Vrieslander]

I opened both in FireFox. It seems I see what you mean.
However when I zoomed out (twice) the original in FireFox using
Ctrl+'-' I got the same result as in the reduced zenfolio image.
I believe what you and I see is either browser's side effect or just
some visual effect when bigger image with larger amount of bright
pixels looks more vivid etc.

I just retried the comparison, using Firefox 3.0.5 on both Mac OS X and Windows XP. When I load the image through the direct link to the file on the Zenfolio server, it still looks more saturated than when I view it on the Zenfolio gallery page. I viewed the image at 100% size (1000x670 pixels) in all cases.

I don't know if your browser is using color management. Firefox does not use color management unless you explicitly enable it with a hidden preference setting. You enter

about:config

in the address field, and that brings up a settings page. Then you set gfx.color_management_enabled to true, and restart the browser.

 

[Nonac Nokin]

Probably your screen is larger than mine. I see http://julianv.zenfolio.com/p224621289/e1a7f939b smaller than 444568475.jpg.

After downsizing the original p444568475.jpg in the browser window I really don't see any difference.

Anyway, there is sense to ask Zenfolio. I asked them about their resizing algorithms during trial period and their answers satisfied me.
If you ask them, please post a reply here.

I opened both in FireFox. It seems I see what you mean.
However when I zoomed out (twice) the original in FireFox using
Ctrl+'-' I got the same result as in the reduced zenfolio image.
I believe what you and I see is either browser's side effect or just
some visual effect when bigger image with larger amount of bright
pixels looks more vivid etc.

I just retried the comparison, using Firefox 3.0.5 on both Mac OS X
and Windows XP. When I load the image through the direct link to the
file on the Zenfolio server, it still looks more saturated than when
I view it on the Zenfolio gallery page. I viewed the image at 100%
size (1000x670 pixels) in all cases.

I don't know if your browser is using color management. Firefox does
not use color management unless you explicitly enable it with a
hidden preference setting. You enter

about:config

in the address field, and that brings up a settings page. Then you
set gfx.color_management_enabled to true, and restart the browser.

 

[Kyle D]

I've personally tried out flickr, zenfolio, and smugmug. I wasn't happy at either of flickr or zenfolio. Smugmug on the other hand has been simply amazing. I've only been with them since May '08 but in that time when from a normal account, to a power account, and now have updated to a pro account.

As for the print quality, I have had nothing but good results from their printer, which is EZ prints for normal and power users. SmugMug has just added a new pro lab for the pro users, so they can now choose between EZ Prints or Bay Photo Lab. This was only announced last week. I've ordered a few test prints and a giclee canvas and a giclee watercolour print and am waiting on deliver to see the quality, but everything I've heard about Bay makes me very optimistic and excited. Also, Bay Photo offers individual colour correction done by a highly trained and skilled person instead of software that does it automatically.

Sure, SmugMug is more expensive than Zenfolio but I feel that is definitely worth it!

You can use my referral code HV7K1El7wWXzw to save yourself $5 off the registration fee. Also they have a free 14 day trial.

Here's a link to check out SmugMug.
http://www.smugmug.com/?referrer=HV7K1El7wWXzw

--
Kyle D.

Not allowed to enter Henry's alone anymore...

http://www.kyledphoto.com

 

[John Roy]

Question from overseas: are these sites like Smugmug and Zenfolio a way for the public to view your photos and buy them via the internet? A way to avoid having to run your own sales website?

If so, I would LOVE such a system in New Zealand. But 12,000 miles is a bit far to run sales from.

 

[Julian Vrieslander]

I contacted Zenfolio support, and described the effects I described earlier in this thread. Their reply:

"We do process the images so that it 'looks the best across the broad range of OS’s and browsers'. Nearly all users on the internet don’t have calibrated monitors, so sacrifices have to be made."

I sent the following response to Zenfolio:

Your response is very disappointing. I take great care in creating my photos, and I use Zenfolio to share them with people who are as finicky as I am. Many of these people have calibrated monitors and they tell me that they can easily see the difference between the images when viewed directly from file and when viewed through your gallery software. Why should I spend hours adjusting the colors in my images if you are going to change them? Why not give your subscribers the option to choose whether their images are viewed “as originally created by the photographer” or “as interpreted by Zenfolio”.

This information makes it less likely that I will renew my subscription to Zenfolio. I will be exploring other photo hosting sites, and the possibility of creating and managing my own site.

 

[Kyle D]

Question from overseas: are these sites like Smugmug and Zenfolio a
way for the public to view your photos and buy them via the internet?
A way to avoid having to run your own sales website?

If so, I would LOVE such a system in New Zealand. But 12,000 miles is
a bit far to run sales from.

The pro account at SmugMug offers you the ability to both view and sell images online. For an example of what you can do to a SmugMug pro account with customization, check out my site:

http://www.kyledphoto.com

You can sell images as either prints or digital downloads. You can even institute a proof delay feature where if someone orders a print, you can delay it by up to 7 days. The proof delay feature allows you to make final colour correction changes to the file, fix the crop, or even upload the highest res version of the image and then send it to the printer.

Again, SmugMug just partnered with Bay Photo which is one of the best pro photo lab's in the world. Also a cool thing about SmugMug is that when someone orders a print from your site, SmugMug takes care of the credit card processing and everything and the prints are shipped directly to the customer.

Also, SmugMug has a print guarantee. If you are unhappy with your prints or gifts, SmugMug will reprint or refund your order, whichever you prefer. The same goes for your customers. For the guarantee to kick in, all you have to do is email their support within 30 days of receiving your order. The guarantee will even cover if you as the photographer screw up by replacing the photo in a proof delay with the wrong image or the customer thinks the colours are off, etc...

SmugMug is definitely a world class company, with great services and the best customer service I have ever dealt with in my entire life.

--
Kyle D.

Not allowed to enter Henry's alone anymore...

http://www.kyledphoto.com

 

[John Roy]

Sounds great Kyle. I hope they open a branch in the deep south.

 

[Kyle D]

Sounds great Kyle. I hope they open a branch in the deep south.

There are numerous SmugMug customers from Australia and New Zealand that have pro sites and do sales through them. I just thought I'd let you know.

Why don't you sign up for a free 14 day trial and test it out. You get the full SmugMug experience with ordering prints, selling prints, customizing your site and making a profit too during the trial. They can only pay your profit after you pay for your subscription though but it will give you a taste of what you can do/accomplish when partnered with them.

If you're interested, here's a link to their homepage so you can sign up for the trial or find out all the information you want.

http://www.smugmug.com/?referrer=HV7K1El7wWXzw

--
Kyle D.

Not allowed to enter Henry's alone anymore...

http://www.kyledphoto.com

 

[binky]

I am in the same boat! It's time to move from Pbase they have made no improvements

I tried zen folio was not pleased it was blah, but so far I have found nothing else
I will keep looking for something until my contract is up at Pbase
recommendations welcome

 

[John Roy]

Thanks Kyle, I'll do just that

 

[Kyle D]

Thanks Kyle, I'll do just that

Your welcome, just remember to use my referral code or the referral link I gave you to save yourself $5 off the subscription price.

--
Kyle D.

Not allowed to enter Henry's alone anymore...

http://www.kyledphoto.com

 

[Kyle D]

I am in the same boat! It's time to move from Pbase they have made
no improvements
I tried zen folio was not pleased it was blah, but so far I have
found nothing else
I will keep looking for something until my contract is up at Pbase
recommendations welcome

You should take a look at SmugMug. Like I said earlier, I've checked out Flickr, Zenfolio (actually twice) and SmugMug. I was thoroughly impressed with SmugMug's overall package. Sure it's more expensive than Zenfolio, but with SmugMug you definitely get what you pay for. Both in services, customer service and now a true pro lab. Plus, it's great feeling dealing with the SmugMug customer service and knowing that they'd bend over backwards to make sure you're happy. It's a really refreshing feeling to get that kind of service from a web based company, heck, from any company. I love being with SmugMug and wouldn't have my site anywhere else or have my business affiliated with anyone else.

So I'd say definitely check out the 14 day trial! Here's the link again so you don't have to go looking for it:

http://www.smugmug.com/?referrer=HV7K1El7wWXzw

--
Kyle D.

Not allowed to enter Henry's alone anymore...

http://www.kyledphoto.com

 

[Nonac Nokin]

Could you please specify areas where smugmug is better than zenfolio?

(I know many guys mention a customization feature, but it's going to be resolved in a couple of weeks in zenfolio, so please avoid listing it as smugmug advantage)

At the moment I have accounts at both site and I don't see any real difference. Although, Zenfolio is a little more flexible.

 

[Matt_Anderson]

nothing but good things from me about Zenfolio.
I would like to see many more templates, but what they have is competitive.
The print fulfillment is really easy to setup.
I used it for my kids sports this past year and did very well.

--


http://mattanderson.zenfolio.com/

 

[lofling]

I tried Zenfolio, smugmug and Pbase. I stuck with Zen because it had the best interface, both for visitors and me. However, the comments in this thread is a bit disconcerting.

Anyway, Zen has now added comments abilities, which wasn't there when I got the account. Overall, I like zenfolio.

http://fling.zenfolio.com