Is a f2.8 lens always sharper than f3.5 lens

[yowsiang]

Hi,

Can anyone advice me whether a f2.8 lens always sharper than f3.5 lens because it allow faster shutter speed?

And that is why my comsumer cam Sony f707 is sharper than my pro cam S2 because sony has a f2.0 whereas I am using a tokina 24-200 of f3.5?

regards
yowsiang

 

[Michael Demyan]

Hi,
Can anyone advice me whether a f2.8 lens always sharper than f3.5
lens because it allow faster shutter speed?
And that is why my comsumer cam Sony f707 is sharper than my pro
cam S2 because sony has a f2.0 whereas I am using a tokina 24-200
of f3.5?

regards
yowsiang

I would venture to say that the Tokina lens is not as sharp as the one on your Sony. To check the performance of your lens, See if it has been tested.
http://www.photodo.com/nav/prodindex.html

Mike Demyan
S-1
http://home.ptd.net/~mdemyan

 

[yuri777]

The answer is right in your post.
If i am not mistaken Sony cams use some kind of custom made Zeiss lens.
So you are basically comparing Zeiss optics against Tokina's..
no contest there, like comparing a Mercedes against Hyundai

Maybe you should test your S2 with a higher quality Nikkor prime lens and you will see better results.

Thanks

Yuri

Hi,
Can anyone advice me whether a f2.8 lens always sharper than f3.5
lens because it allow faster shutter speed?
And that is why my comsumer cam Sony f707 is sharper than my pro
cam S2 because sony has a f2.0 whereas I am using a tokina 24-200
of f3.5?

regards
yowsiang

I would venture to say that the Tokina lens is not as sharp as the
one on your Sony. To check the performance of your lens, See if it
has been tested.
http://www.photodo.com/nav/prodindex.html

Mike Demyan
S-1
http://home.ptd.net/~mdemyan

--
http://zenphoto.com

 

[Mike Russell]

I am not an expert here... But learning as fast as I can..

Anyways. A lot of photographers have a saying "F-8 and be there". Or something to that effect. F-8, can be said as "Fate", but means F-Stop 8. In general most lenses have the sharpest pics around the F-8 area. You may want to try some pics in that area.

You may also want to try increasing the sharpening level of your S2 to "HARD". This will produce a much sharper picture out of camera, however it may limit some post processing as well if you choose to do any.

There is a rampant discussion of the Nikon D100 being to soft. Part of the explanation for this is as follows.

Many people using the D100 (or S2) are coming up from Consumer level digicams (your 707, my nikon 950). These consumer level digicams try and produce the best possible picture out of the camera. The manufacturers assume that the end user of a consumer camera is not going to do any post processing in Photo Shop or else where. Just print the image and be done with it.

These Semi-Pro/Pro camera's like the D100 and the S2 take a different approach. They expect people to be doing post processing and leave the image rather un-changed from what was captured. Means a bit more work later, but gives a lot more freedom!

Hope this is clear.

Mike

Hi,
Can anyone advice me whether a f2.8 lens always sharper than f3.5
lens because it allow faster shutter speed?
And that is why my comsumer cam Sony f707 is sharper than my pro
cam S2 because sony has a f2.0 whereas I am using a tokina 24-200
of f3.5?

regards
yowsiang

 

[Choice]

Can anyone advice me whether a f2.8 lens always sharper than f3.5
lens because it allow faster shutter speed?

No. Some of the sharpest lenses have relatively slow maximum aperture. Also, most lenses are not at their sharpest wide open.

And that is why my comsumer cam Sony f707 is sharper than my pro
cam S2 because sony has a f2.0 whereas I am using a tokina 24-200
of f3.5?

The most likely reason is that Tokina 24-200 is a consumer grade zoom that is just not that great. The Tokina would also be more prone to camera shake. The Sony lens focal length is only 9.7mm--48.5mm, while Tokina is 24mm--200mm. Higher magnification would greatly exagerate any camera movement. Try using the camera on a tripod.

 

[Choice]

The answer is right in your post.
If i am not mistaken Sony cams use some kind of custom made Zeiss
lens.
So you are basically comparing Zeiss optics against Tokina's..
no contest there, like comparing a Mercedes against Hyundai

I think Zeiss involvement in the Sony lens, is limited to getting paid by Sony to borrow a name. Kinda like putting a Mercedes hood ornament on a Toyota. Tokina AT-X optics are every bit as good as most out there, but you are not going the best by purchasing their or anybody else's consumer grade super zoom.

Maybe you should test your S2 with a higher quality Nikkor prime
lens and you will see better results.

Sure a prime lens will perform better than an 8X zoom, but what kind of a comparison is that? There are plenty of high quality zooms from Nikon or 3rd party manufacturers that will blow Sony out of the water (even with Zeiss name stenciled on).

 

[Mark Schey]

In addition to what was already said, an f2.8 will have a more shallow depth of field, making focus more critical. If the autofocus isn't dead-on (or you don't target it correctly), you might find it more difficult to get tack sharp images at f2.8 or lower.

There are too many variables, like build/glass quality/lens design to just flat out say "f2.8 is always sharper than f3.5" but it will always allow for a faster shutter speed (to prevent camera shake as noted before). So, you might be able to say it can always be sharper if ALL other aspects of the lens are identical AND the reason for the softer focus was related to shake or the subject moving.

Can anyone advice me whether a f2.8 lens always sharper than f3.5
lens because it allow faster shutter speed?

 

[yuri777]

Sure a prime lens will perform better than an 8X zoom, but what
kind of a comparison is that? There are plenty of high quality
zooms from Nikon or 3rd party manufacturers that will blow Sony out
of the water (even with Zeiss name stenciled on).

Well he seems to think that there is something wrong with his S2.

Testing it out with a prime lens will quickly convince him it the problem lies in his fine tokina lens and not the camera.

We are not testing out optics here

BTW, if Tokina produces such fine lenses, how come a zoom attached to a consumer digital camera has better optics than an SLR lens?

--
http://zenphoto.com

 

[yuri777]

yuri777 wrote:
I think Zeiss involvement in the Sony lens, is limited to getting
paid by Sony to borrow a name. Kinda like putting a Mercedes hood
ornament on a Toyota. Tokina AT-X optics are every bit as good as
most out there, but you are not going the best by purchasing their
or anybody else's consumer grade super zoom.

Actually, your thinking is incorrect.

The zeiss lens for the sony cameras was actually designed by Kyocera's optical division for Sony. It isn't a tokina, eagle or some other cheapo brand with a zeiss name..

 

[Choice]

Sure a prime lens will perform better than an 8X zoom, but what
kind of a comparison is that? There are plenty of high quality
zooms from Nikon or 3rd party manufacturers that will blow Sony out
of the water (even with Zeiss name stenciled on).

Well he seems to think that there is something wrong with his S2.
Testing it out with a prime lens will quickly convince him it the
problem lies in his fine tokina lens and not the camera.

I did not see any complaint about the camera in the original post. It specifically asked about lenses.

We are not testing out optics here

Then, what ARE you doing?

BTW, if Tokina produces such fine lenses, how come a zoom attached
to a consumer digital camera has better optics than an SLR lens?

This is just plain silly. Tokina 28-200 is a fair consumer grade lens. It is not comparable to professional grade lenses from Tokina or anyone else. It is not even necessarily true that it is a worse performer than the Sony lens. It is a much longer lens and therefore more susceptible to camera shake. Under properly controlled condition, this low-end Tokina might very well prove superior to Sony.

 

[Choice]

yuri777 wrote:
I think Zeiss involvement in the Sony lens, is limited to getting
paid by Sony to borrow a name. Kinda like putting a Mercedes hood
ornament on a Toyota. Tokina AT-X optics are every bit as good as
most out there, but you are not going the best by purchasing their
or anybody else's consumer grade super zoom.

Actually, your thinking is incorrect.
The zeiss lens for the sony cameras was actually designed by
Kyocera's optical division for Sony. It isn't a tokina, eagle or
some other cheapo brand with a zeiss name..

If you think that buying a Sony digicam or camcorder gets you optics comparable to what's mounted on a Contax or a Hasselblad, I can get you a really good deal on the Brooklyn bridge. Sony is not a bad lens, but putting a german name on it does not make it great.

 

[yowsiang]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for that explaination, but wont post processing create nmore artifact or noise when its sharpen in let say photoshop?

Also does that explains why images from sonyf707 is very sharp but with higher noise at the darker areas, because the camera has done the sharperning process?

yowsiang

Anyways. A lot of photographers have a saying "F-8 and be there".
Or something to that effect. F-8, can be said as "Fate", but means
F-Stop 8. In general most lenses have the sharpest pics around the
F-8 area. You may want to try some pics in that area.

You may also want to try increasing the sharpening level of your S2
to "HARD". This will produce a much sharper picture out of camera,
however it may limit some post processing as well if you choose to
do any.

There is a rampant discussion of the Nikon D100 being to soft. Part
of the explanation for this is as follows.

Many people using the D100 (or S2) are coming up from Consumer
level digicams (your 707, my nikon 950). These consumer level
digicams try and produce the best possible picture out of the
camera. The manufacturers assume that the end user of a consumer
camera is not going to do any post processing in Photo Shop or else
where. Just print the image and be done with it.

These Semi-Pro/Pro camera's like the D100 and the S2 take a
different approach. They expect people to be doing post processing
and leave the image rather un-changed from what was captured. Means
a bit more work later, but gives a lot more freedom!

Hope this is clear.

Mike

Hi,
Can anyone advice me whether a f2.8 lens always sharper than f3.5
lens because it allow faster shutter speed?
And that is why my comsumer cam Sony f707 is sharper than my pro
cam S2 because sony has a f2.0 whereas I am using a tokina 24-200
of f3.5?

regards
yowsiang

 

[yowsiang]

But how some professional are able to shoot running or moving objects sharply?

ys

There are too many variables, like build/glass quality/lens design
to just flat out say "f2.8 is always sharper than f3.5" but it will
always allow for a faster shutter speed (to prevent camera shake as
noted before). So, you might be able to say it can always be
sharper if ALL other aspects of the lens are identical AND the
reason for the softer focus was related to shake or the subject
moving.

Can anyone advice me whether a f2.8 lens always sharper than f3.5
lens because it allow faster shutter speed?

 

[Anthony32599]

Is an f/2.8 lens always sharper than an f/3.5 lens? No. The f/2.8 lens has a shallower depth of field than an f/3.5 lens at the maximum aperture, so only a very narrow band will be in focus. This can lead to the perception of increased sharpness because the background will be more likely to be pleasingly blurred--giving the photo a "snap."

Other factors such as coatings, lens elements, design, etc, can also come into play so that a blanket statement is meaningless. Thus, you can't say that an f/2.8 lens is always sharper, because it's not, especially as you begin stopping down the lens.

With regard to your Sony vs S2 and sharpness issues, there's a couple of things to remember. First, the lens on the Sony is custom made for that particular camera/sensor combination and it can't be removed. Thus, it can be made with special tolerances which will give it an edge over your Tokina which must be made to fit a variety of cameras and perform. Second, the Sony camera itself will use very hard sharpness settings automatically--very good for images right out of the camera, but poor for working with later. Set your S2 to hard sharpness and you should see better results, that is to say, better images for your purposes out of the camera.

Finally, it appears that you're fairly new to the digital SLR world, so there's a learning curve involved. But remember that with portraits, generally setting your camera to aperture preferred and using the widest aperture you can will give you a better portrait because the background will be blurred. It will lead the eye to that area in focus, so the image will appear sharper. I happen to like shooting in aperture preferred mode.

The Sony on automatic probably has programming for the fastest shutter speed as a priority. This generally means that you're getting a wide aperture shot automatically. The Fuji as I recall, compromises between a fast shutter speed and a smaller aperture. Again, this leads to a perception difference.

Anthony

Hi,
Can anyone advice me whether a f2.8 lens always sharper than f3.5
lens because it allow faster shutter speed?
And that is why my comsumer cam Sony f707 is sharper than my pro
cam S2 because sony has a f2.0 whereas I am using a tokina 24-200
of f3.5?

regards
yowsiang

 

[yuri777]

Actually, your thinking is incorrect.
The zeiss lens for the sony cameras was actually designed by
Kyocera's optical division for Sony. It isn't a tokina, eagle or
some other cheapo brand with a zeiss name..

If you think that buying a Sony digicam or camcorder gets you
optics comparable to what's mounted on a Contax or a Hasselblad, I
can get you a really good deal on the Brooklyn bridge. Sony is not
a bad lens, but putting a german name on it does not make it great.

It may not make it great, but i can bet you its design and quality is far superior to a cheap plastic "Tokina" lens.

--
http://zenphoto.com

 

[Ron H]

For what it is worth the Tokina lens is a metal lens and not plastic, and I think your comments are really irrevalent unless you have first hand experience and knowledge regarding the lenses themselves. Tokina's ATX series are of very high quality and are all metal lenses as well. For what it is worth, many of the lenses from camera companies such as Canon and Minolta are made by Tokina which is owned by Hoya which is the largest optical glass company in the world. I own the Tokina 28-70 2.6-2.8 Pro II lens and I assure you the build quality and optics are in-line with many of the pro series lenses of Nikon and Canon.

Actually, your thinking is incorrect.
The zeiss lens for the sony cameras was actually designed by
Kyocera's optical division for Sony. It isn't a tokina, eagle or
some other cheapo brand with a zeiss name..

If you think that buying a Sony digicam or camcorder gets you
optics comparable to what's mounted on a Contax or a Hasselblad, I
can get you a really good deal on the Brooklyn bridge. Sony is not
a bad lens, but putting a german name on it does not make it great.

It may not make it great, but i can bet you its design and quality
is far superior to a cheap plastic "Tokina" lens.

--
http://zenphoto.com

 

[TedS85150]

Anyways. A lot of photographers have a saying "F-8 and be there".
Or something to that effect. F-8, can be said as "Fate", but means
F-Stop 8. In general most lenses have the sharpest pics around the
F-8 area. You may want to try some pics in that area.

You may also want to try increasing the sharpening level of your S2
to "HARD". This will produce a much sharper picture out of camera,
however it may limit some post processing as well if you choose to
do any.

There is a rampant discussion of the Nikon D100 being to soft. Part
of the explanation for this is as follows.

Many people using the D100 (or S2) are coming up from Consumer
level digicams (your 707, my nikon 950). These consumer level
digicams try and produce the best possible picture out of the
camera. The manufacturers assume that the end user of a consumer
camera is not going to do any post processing in Photo Shop or else
where. Just print the image and be done with it.

These Semi-Pro/Pro camera's like the D100 and the S2 take a
different approach. They expect people to be doing post processing
and leave the image rather un-changed from what was captured. Means
a bit more work later, but gives a lot more freedom!

Hope this is clear.

Mike

Hi,
Can anyone advice me whether a f2.8 lens always sharper than f3.5
lens because it allow faster shutter speed?
And that is why my comsumer cam Sony f707 is sharper than my pro
cam S2 because sony has a f2.0 whereas I am using a tokina 24-200
of f3.5?

regards
yowsiang

no sharpness of a lense has nothing to do with speed.

 

[William Carson]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for that explaination, but wont post processing create nmore
artifact or noise when its sharpen in let say photoshop?

Also does that explains why images from sonyf707 is very sharp but
with higher noise at the darker areas, because the camera has done
the sharperning process?

The size of the pro sensor is much larger and this affects in a big way the level of noise as well as color depth. - Will

yowsiang

Anyways. A lot of photographers have a saying "F-8 and be there".
Or something to that effect. F-8, can be said as "Fate", but means
F-Stop 8. In general most lenses have the sharpest pics around the
F-8 area. You may want to try some pics in that area.

You may also want to try increasing the sharpening level of your S2
to "HARD". This will produce a much sharper picture out of camera,
however it may limit some post processing as well if you choose to
do any.

There is a rampant discussion of the Nikon D100 being to soft. Part
of the explanation for this is as follows.

Many people using the D100 (or S2) are coming up from Consumer
level digicams (your 707, my nikon 950). These consumer level
digicams try and produce the best possible picture out of the
camera. The manufacturers assume that the end user of a consumer
camera is not going to do any post processing in Photo Shop or else
where. Just print the image and be done with it.

These Semi-Pro/Pro camera's like the D100 and the S2 take a
different approach. They expect people to be doing post processing
and leave the image rather un-changed from what was captured. Means
a bit more work later, but gives a lot more freedom!

Hope this is clear.

Mike

Hi,
Can anyone advice me whether a f2.8 lens always sharper than f3.5
lens because it allow faster shutter speed?
And that is why my comsumer cam Sony f707 is sharper than my pro
cam S2 because sony has a f2.0 whereas I am using a tokina 24-200
of f3.5?

regards
yowsiang

 

[Choice]

Actually, your thinking is incorrect.
The zeiss lens for the sony cameras was actually designed by
Kyocera's optical division for Sony. It isn't a tokina, eagle or
some other cheapo brand with a zeiss name..

If you think that buying a Sony digicam or camcorder gets you
optics comparable to what's mounted on a Contax or a Hasselblad, I
can get you a really good deal on the Brooklyn bridge. Sony is not
a bad lens, but putting a german name on it does not make it great.

It may not make it great, but i can bet you its design and quality
is far superior to a cheap plastic "Tokina" lens.

This last comment proves that you have absolutely no knowledge of Tokina lenses. All Tokina ATX lenses are all glass and have metal lens barrels. Tokina has been making professional quality lenses for over 50 years, and (unlike Sony) aren't embarrassed to put their own name on their product.

 

[yuri777]

First hand experience with cheap Tokina lenses?
ugh.. not thanks
Canon? Minolta... not today.. thanks..

i have plenty of experience with cheap metal yashica lenses already

i will just keep on shooting through my crappy, old, metal zeiss glass..

Actually, your thinking is incorrect.
The zeiss lens for the sony cameras was actually designed by
Kyocera's optical division for Sony. It isn't a tokina, eagle or
some other cheapo brand with a zeiss name..

If you think that buying a Sony digicam or camcorder gets you
optics comparable to what's mounted on a Contax or a Hasselblad, I
can get you a really good deal on the Brooklyn bridge. Sony is not
a bad lens, but putting a german name on it does not make it great.

It may not make it great, but i can bet you its design and quality
is far superior to a cheap plastic "Tokina" lens.

--
http://zenphoto.com

--
http://zenphoto.com