I'm doubting the G1 will be a success ...

[Dave Lewis]

You really need to experience what a larger sensor camera can do for you, not only in image quality and high ISO image quality but it reduced depth of field. Add to that the ability to change lenses and you have a whole new world available to you.
--
Dave Lewis

 

[Dave Lewis]

Those are folks you should probably ignore rather than legitimizing their contentions with lame rebuttal.
--
Dave Lewis

 

[Dave Lewis]

I think Panasonic sees the G1 as the true expression of what 4/3 was intended to be from the beginning, while Olympus sees it as an opportunity to bring true DSLR quality to a sophisticated pocket camera. I think they are both headed in profitable directions. There is plenty of room for both cameras in today's active market, in my mind.
--
Dave Lewis

 

[Gregm61]

From the preview on here, I can see that the camera is extremely well
thought out, very well made and capable of results altogether the
equal of other DSLR's.

For many subjects, yes. This still isn't a camera for action. If you shoot anything that requires the ability to both focus track AND at the same time shoot bursts while being able to continue following the subject in the finder all at one time, I think you're going to find this camera a disappointment. There, the G1's not only going to lag and DSLR, it will fall flat on its' face.

It is far and away a better option than
anything even close in a small sensor camera.

Nothing else other than the very limited DP-1 is even close. Absolutely.

Compare it in size and
feature with other bridge cameras you compare it to then throw in the
4/3 sensor and you quickly realize this is not a bridge camera. This
is what the 4/3 system promised from the beginning. I expect it to be
a very successful offering.

As long as it's used for subjects where it is successful, yes. In addition to what I described above about action, I also wanna see what the G1 will do if you shoot with an external flash indoors, choose manual exposure of something like 1/125 at f5.6, which works great with DSLR's, but with EVF's like the FZ50, which always shows the ambient light view based on the set exposure, the finder has always blacked out, making the FZ50 virtually impossible to use that way. Is there a way to set the finder to show you what the heck you are shooting even if the ambient light exposure isn't correct for the lighting in the room? With an external flash being used, the exposure being "right" for ambient light indoors doesn't matter, but people who have designed EVF cameras, Panasonic included, never have figured this out.

 

[Anton A Tongue]

It's beyond my mind why people consider lens interchangeability as a
con. Please, explain WHY? Nobody says you have to change the lenses...

One reason that I reject DSLR is weight.
Having a mounting adds weight.

Nobody says you have to change the lenses.

But the other reason I rejected DSLR is discontent.
When I used to shoot with a film SLR, I managed to
acquire 5 lenses. It was handy for getting to know the
characteristics of various primes and stuff like that, but
in a sense, it was more than I needed to know.

You have to have a lot of control not to be tempted by
another lens.

I'm not sure that dust is as relevant as it used to be.
At camera dealers in Japan, I see two-or-three year-old used
compacts for sale with 'dust in sensor' or 'dust in lens': the
ability to able to open the camera for cleaning and the ability
to replace the lens may be a good thing.

But, for the time being, technological advance is going to
have you wanting a new camera every three years or so,
anyway.

Panasonic came late to digital still photography and is using its
company resources to make products that it hopes will sell.

The people involved in product design, which means making a
product targeted at specific consumers and a specific niche in
the market are testing themselves against the market and against
competing companies. They are not being judged by the God of
Photography, but by people with discretionary income who think
they want to take photographs.

The technicians who make the designs real certainly do not want
to cheat the consumer.

The G1 is first camera in an evolutionary line of cameras.

I think that the concept is quite exciting, especially the articulating
LCD on a larger format camera. About three years from now,
I reckon the descendants of the G1 will be very tempting indeed,
and not just to the current target of female consumers.

Panasonic may be onto something there. In Japan women are
extremely conscious of weight and size. For example, chop
sticks, tea cups and rice bowls come in male and female sizes.
Young men who heft cameras might be happy to build their
biceps, but there are still plenty of women who would be concerned
about developing bulges in what they would consider inappropriate
places.

Panasonic are bold enough to explore new territory in the
market. Good luck to them and to other makers. Every year
the amount of compromise between image quality and
portability is likely to keep on decreasing.

I don't think that the G1 yet offers a big enough step up
in image quality to tempt me to carry one around, but the
next few years are likely to more interesting because of it.

--
No rocks impede thy dimpling course.

 

[TEBnewyork]

For many subjects, yes. This still isn't a camera for action. If you
shoot anything that requires the ability to both focus track AND at
the same time shoot bursts while being able to continue following the
subject in the finder all at one time, I think you're going to find
this camera a disappointment. There, the G1's not only going to lag,
it will fall flat on its' face.

Can you point me in the direction of any information to back this up? I've already pre-ordered a G1 but want to get a better understanding as to what leads you to make this conclusion.

terry
http://tbanet.zenfolio.com/

 

[Gregm61]

For many subjects, yes. This still isn't a camera for action. If you
shoot anything that requires the ability to both focus track AND at
the same time shoot bursts while being able to continue following the
subject in the finder all at one time, I think you're going to find
this camera a disappointment. There, the G1's not only going to lag,
it will fall flat on its' face.

Can you point me in the direction of any information to back this up?
I've already pre-ordered a G1 but want to get a better understanding
as to what leads you to make this conclusion.

You'll be able to tell us soon, Terry!

All anyone has talked about is focus tracking, which is great, but what happens while you're tracking that moving subject when you press the shutter button to take that first image in a burst? Will you still be able to follow the subject or will the finder freeze, ever so little momentarily and kill any chance you have of continuing an accurate bust?

Willing to bet a blue TZ5 on the answer? I don't know the answer, but I'll bet I am right.

 

[Gregm61]

For many subjects, yes. This still isn't a camera for action. If you
shoot anything that requires the ability to both focus track AND at
the same time shoot bursts while being able to continue following the
subject in the finder all at one time, I think you're going to find
this camera a disappointment. There, the G1's not only going to lag,
it will fall flat on its' face.

Can you point me in the direction of any information to back this up?
I've already pre-ordered a G1 but want to get a better understanding
as to what leads you to make this conclusion.

It's hard to find anything right now real concrete about how this camera (G1) is going to actually perform. I did ask Any Westlake this exact question earlier and got this response..

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1000&message=29331729

The thing is, ANY DSLR can do this. ....it's not just a pro DSLR feature. You might not be able to do 9 or 10 frames per second like a Canon 1Ds, but you can both track, shoot and accurately follow moving subjects in the finder at the same time with any DSLR. It'd be interesting, but unless they actually read these posts, I bet DPReview doesn't even take this into consideration when they do, 4-6 months from now, get around to posting a review on it.

Focus tracking is great, but that's only half the story. What happens when you press the release in to actually take a picture and want to continue following the subject in the finder and shoot subsequent images in a very short period of time? If the second half doesn't work right, they can keep the focus tracking, no matter how well it works.

 

[wolfie]

I'd say the EVF mirrorless design is a winner - quieter and less vibration for slow speed photography - important considerations for people doing lowlight candid work.

The opening price will always be high - heck I got a brand new E-300 for 33% less than introductory price by waiting a few months.
Face it - the next evolutionary step in camera has arrived-starting with the G1.
--
Shoot the Light fantastic

 

[JosephScha]

I just have to reply to ask, why post this? This thread is basically "Here's my opinion about the G1". OK, now I know.

I think you have to ask yourself what the G1 really offers:

• A bigger/better sensor? Well, yes and no. The micro 4/3 form factor

is better than small CCD sensors in other Panasonic digitals in most
ways, but it arguably isn't the equal of the big CMOS sensors in
Nikon and Canon DSLR's.

OK, the old Canon 5D is over $2000 and the 5D mark II is almost $3000 with a kit lens that probably doesn't do it justice. Sony alpha 900 is also $3000 with a kit lens. Better to compare it to a camera that might be aimed at the same audience, the very successful Olympus E420. How many focus points on that camera? Answer: 3. How many focus points on the G1? Answer 23. LCD? E420: 2.7", 230,000 dot G1: 3.0" 460,000 dot. The E420 is the world's smallest DSLR. The G1 is smaller and lighter, and although lens selection for micro 4/3 lenses is limited, they are smaller and lighter than (also usable) 4/3 equivalents.

• An EVF? Well, yes - those of us who are fans of prosumer cameras

love the EVF for its live preview of exposure and focus and its
review of pictures just taken. But so-called "real" photographers
(aka DSLR users) still turn up their noses at anything but a true
optical VF. So, is the market for bridge camera mover-uppers big
enough to make an EVF DSLR lookalike a success? I sincerely doubt it.

Did you know that real DSLRs often have misalignment of the phase-detect focusing system and the actual focus on the sensor? It can be tested for, a very small degree is acceptable, a disturbing degree is a problem. Focus using the main sensor never has that problem. AND: no prosumer camera has an EVF like the one in the G1. You're read the preview, I'm sure; you should know. Example: Comparing the

• Smaller, lighter lenses and bodies? The announced lenses for the G1

are slow (f/3.5), and there are so far limited offerings. There are
promises of more, but unless the G1 is a screaming sales success,
those other lenses won't make it to market. And aftermarket
lensmakers aren't going to jump eagerly onto a sinking ship either.
Yes, the bodies can be made smaller, but smaller doesn't always mean
better to a photographer.

Wow, what pessimism. But, here's the point: I am not a pro. I am not going to spend multiple thousands of dollars on f/2.8 zoom and telephoto lenses, even if they are available. Since the G1 at ISO400 looks like my FZ7 at ISO 100, I can give up half a stop (f/2.8 min to f/3.5 min) and still be way ahead. And, of course, an f/2.8 lens would be bigger and heavier. I think Panasonic made the right lenses first for their target customer.

• Cross-compatibility? Only Oly so far is in the game with Panasonic,

and even at that they differ in their application of IS (in-lens v.
in-body), so they really aren't interchangeable in practical terms.

Some OLY 4/3 lenses that support contrast detect autofocus will autofocus on the G1. All 4/3 lense are usable in manual focus, which was the only way to focus on my old film DSLR. Sigma also makes 4/3 lenses.

• Price advantage? I don't think so, since you can buy a DSLR + kit

lens for about the price of the G1.

Correct, Panasonic is not offering an equivalent "me to" small DSLR that must undercut price to stand out. I expect the price will drop. In the meantime, there are people who will buy it because of what it is.

From what I've seen in person and in multiple discussion forums, the
bulk of DSLR users are chuckling at the G1. They tend to view it as a
"bridge DSLR", if you will ... neither fish nor fowl. In that regard,
they see it as not much more than a glorified FZ with a couple of
interchangeable lenses. In other words, not a real threat to their
DSLR establishment. Elitism is at work here, and it's a powerful
factor in marketing.

They are wrong, as you imply. The G1 is not a bridge to a DSLR, it is a DSL-non-R (not a reflex mechanism) and its technology is the first serious challenge to DSLRs. I completely expect that within a few years Nikon and perhaps even Canon will offer such a camera. A mirror and a pentaprism do not contribute to image quality. If the EVF is good enough - and I think it is - then the G1 is a challenge to DSLR dominance of "prosumer" cameras. I don't like or want mirror slap. I want an EVF that gains up.

If the G1 flops, Panasonic will have the modern equivalent of the APS
film camera debacle on their hands. Photographers in the 90's saw no
benefit to the new APS format, and it died on the vine. The G1 may
end up sharing the same fate.

The G1 will not flop like that. One of the things that killed APS film was the rise of digital. That's why photographers in the 90's didn't see the point of APS film, they were going to digital. The G1 doesn't face that.

I want Panasonic to be successful, but I have to question the
direction they are taking.

I say: no, you don't. Not in public like this.

the market right now is split between P&S
(which unfortunately includes prosumer bridge cameras) and DSLR's,
and it appears for now that never the twain shall meet. Trying to
wedge something into the narrow middle ground isn't the wisest of
moves in my opinion.

As I said above, this is not trying to find the gap between prosumer bridge cameras and entry DSLRs, it is a competitor of and a challenge to entry level DSLRs. People who really love "always have my 18x zoom lens" superzooms are not necessarily drawn to the G1, as we've seen in other posts here.

Of course, this is all just my opinion. But then again, it's in reply to the original post which is just yours.

 

[Leo]

Looked like your argument is more targeted to M4/3 in general than
just G1. Here is my thinking on M4/3:
If M4/3 succeed, good for Panasonic and they got their feet in a
winner circle.
If M4/3 fails, Olympus probably will follow Minolta's fade. Panasonic
is too big to disappear. They only need to reinvent themselves by
partner with somebody else or do something else themselves.
Additionally they have one less competitor to worry.

Olympus will be a different animal: smaller and lighter with the same sensor size. Also Olympus and Panasonic are working to make the lenses interchangeable between these two.
Leo

 

[DriftForge]

TEBnewyork wrote:
All anyone has talked about is focus tracking, which is great, but
what happens while you're tracking that moving subject when you press
the shutter button to take that first image in a burst? Will you
still be able to follow the subject or will the finder freeze, ever
so little momentarily and kill any chance you have of continuing an
accurate bust?

What, just like a DSLR blacks out, obviously killing any chance you have of doing the same thing with a DSLR anyway?

 

[Entropius]

... and the DSLR will black out longer, since it has to physically flip a mirror around and then wait for the vibrations to die down before it can get accurate AF tracking data again. The G1 still has to do switching, but it's all electronic.

 

[Entropius]

About three years from now,
I reckon the descendants of the G1 will be very tempting indeed,
and not just to the current target of female consumers.

Panasonic may be onto something there. In Japan women are
extremely conscious of weight and size.

That's the same story with the FZ1. They wanted to sell a long-zoom camera to women, and made this tiny thing that was basically all lens.

Then they realized that hobbyist male photographers were buying it too because of its manual controls, realized that they were sitting on something good, and spun off the FZ10 line for the more serious types who didn't mind the bulk while still improving the FZ1.

... and now the FZ line's been one of the most successful superzoom product lines in the market: the FZ50 is still the benchmark bridge camera.

Probably the same thing will happen with the G1.

 

[BJN]

The G1 isn't small enough to make it on size alone. It's targeted at a crossover market but isn't priced competively enough for its consumer features. But if there's room for the price to come down it could do well enough to carve out a niche.

I hope so, because I'd like to see that Olympus pocket camera concept come out in the micro 4/3 format with a compact wide angle prime and a short range zoom for it. The G1 has no appeal to me, but if the mount has some interesting potential and that's where I can see the G1 getting some good compact glass.

--
BJ Nicholls
SLC, UT

 

[Torch]

I doubt the mirror will be kept in the box when it is not needed.
I doubt keeping the mirror will help better focus.
I doubt the noise the mirror makes will be made into a speaker sound function.

I do not doubt the G1 is an enormous step forward and buyers as with anything new will stand and gawk like seagulls looking for a food signal without any ability to predict what food will be available next.

Sure I know. When the mirrors disappear nobody is going to buy any more cameras.

The only suitable laugh here echoes from Predator when the alien sets the countdown for its suicide wrist nuke.
--
Instead of trying to impress people with confusion... go back to basics.
Torch

 

[Martin Muehlemann]

Hi

I cannot agree with you. I am in posession of a Sony Alpha. Check my lenses in the footer.

I had a FZ18 and an Oly 560UZ. Both very nice but not outstanding with their IQ. Thats why i opted for the Alpha. The Alpha is a really good cam but it has some disadvantages that for my the G1 covers well.

I am used to carry a bag with me, thats no argument. The FZ18 needed a bag too. It did not fit in a pouch.

Size, compared to te Alpha, it is 1/3 smaller. Big advantage. I am more space for my accessories in my small DSLR bag!!

My Alpha has a weight of 600g and my lens 400g. 1 Kg. The G1 has a weight of 380g and the lens, probably roghly around 200g. Less weight to carry.

Mirror flip. Nasty thing about the Alpha is the mirror. Two reasons. One, the noise when taking a shot of animals, the second, with all my pictures i take any consumer DSLR will be dead after a year. i do around 10'000 pics a month. G1, no flipping mirror. big advantage.

lense change. i like the change of lenses. i got the option to use a prime for a party or a standard zoom. the tele i need only at the airport or on air shows. G1 can use 4/3 standard lenses (vignetting, who knows yet) and micro 4/3. The initial two lenses cover at least what i usually need. 17mm on Alpha = 28mm and 14mm on 4/3 = 28mm no loss at all. same wide angle

live view. i use the live view very often, to choose the right color settings, WB and EV. Apart from that, the screen can be moved. On the Alpha in two directions. On the G1 in much more.

the screen. your skin is always a bit wet, greasy. hell i hate it when my screen on the alpha gets dirty just because pictures i take through the OVF. G1 covers the screen

LV on the alpha covers 96% of the image you are going to take. G1 100%

OVF the Alpha OVF covers 82% of the image you are goind to shoot. G1 has 100%. WYSIWYG on the G1

AUTO ISO. There is no way to lock the auto ISO on my Alpha to ISO 800. And hell we all know that the Alphas are weak with high ISOs and its noise level. G1 has the ability to lock the upper ISO.

My screen is 4:3 and not 3:2. My pictures in 90% of the cases are being viewed on screen and not printed out. My Alpha cannot switch between 16:9, 3:2 and 4:3
G1 has it

3.5 fps, my Alpha has it and the G1 has it. I don't need more.

Apart from this, the G1 has a movie recording mode. Which DSLR has this?

G1 one, for me, is a real candidate to replace my Alpha. None of the Canons, Nikons, Sonys, Pantax today have the feature in combination. Intresting for ma way the Oly 420, but it has no flippable screen. No go

The IQ of my Alpha is outstanding and so i am waiting to see some real life images from the G1. If the cam really does what today is written on paper, my alpha will be gone.

I am pretty sure that some other ppl here and on the world have similar needs. I am no nuts of any brand. I am looking for the cam that fits my needs.

Cheers
Martin

--
Sony Alpha 300 | 17-50/2.8 | 55-200 4 - 5.6
http://www.muehlemann-pix.ch

 

[BIJ001]

It's beyond my mind why people consider lens interchangeability as a
con.

Because of the dreaded dust on the sensor.

 

[Barry Fitzgerald]

Because of the dreaded dust on the sensor.

--

And a nice windy day, no shutter to protect the sensor. Sure the dustbuster is good, but get some pollen on there, and you are in trouble.

Never mind a brief shower...

That sensor sits really close to the front of the camera, IMO it should not be exposed like that.

 

[BIJ001]

It will interesting to see to how much extent this will become an issue and whether it will be coped with with the HD version.