Tarn Tantikij
Forum Enthusiast
The roving band of Canon apologists out to insult each have their own singular tract.
Probed, you'll find the shallow end of the pool of knowledge.
tarn
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1Ds mk3 focusing... hmm?
- Thread starter Benedict Slotte
- Start date
Probed, you'll find the shallow end of the pool of knowledge.
tarn
Tarn Tantikij
Forum Enthusiast
Whether the cause or effect is like whether the chicken or the egg came before.
On the other hand people who listen and are curious develop facets and dimensions that come to bear when a problem has to be solved.
But the world apparently needs all kinds of people.
It's not the funny line from the British tv Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe: Announce that we've found a better planet, ship off the hairdressers.
We already know the answer to that.
It's 42.
tarn
W
WalterSrChat
Guest
(Test setup: white page with black text at about 50 cm distance, AI servo enabled, AF-ON button kept pushed in, shooting frames one by one with a few second intervals, lens kept at f/1.4, both camera and target kept steady on a table.)
“This AF mode is for moving subjects when the focusing distance keeps changing”.
Page 83 of the 1Ds Mark III manual, so the camera in AI Servo Mode with the stationary target on the table 30cm from the camera, conflicts with what is in the manual.
With the knowledge of the manual presented, if people insist that the test is valid, then they think they know more about the 1Ds Mark III than the camera’s creators.
By the way, just how was the camera and target keep steady on the table?
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I am out to take the perfect picture, if it exits!
Benedict Slotte
Senior Member
Quite a lot of debate here...
To answer the question in the beginning: no, I don't normally find text on a flat background the most interesting of subjects, but when I can clearly see that my Nikon D3 is much more stable in a similar situation, I wonder if (a) that's just how all mk3 (and mk2 and mk1) Canons are, or (b) my unit of 1Ds mk3 has a small flaw in the way its AF works.
Looks like this hunting is nothing to worry about. BUT the D3, however, doesn't hunt AT ALL under the exact same circumstances, with its own 50 mm f/1.4 D lens attached. I just tried.
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B. Slotte
Turku, Finland
http://bslotte.smugmug.com
To answer the question in the beginning: no, I don't normally find text on a flat background the most interesting of subjects, but when I can clearly see that my Nikon D3 is much more stable in a similar situation, I wonder if (a) that's just how all mk3 (and mk2 and mk1) Canons are, or (b) my unit of 1Ds mk3 has a small flaw in the way its AF works.
Looks like this hunting is nothing to worry about. BUT the D3, however, doesn't hunt AT ALL under the exact same circumstances, with its own 50 mm f/1.4 D lens attached. I just tried.
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B. Slotte
Turku, Finland
http://bslotte.smugmug.com
W
WalterSrChat
Guest
Did you personally do the same test with the D3 on your table with the same target at the same distance?
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I am out to take the perfect picture, if it exits!
Benedict Slotte
Senior Member
Yes. Same text, same distance, same focal length, same aperture, approximately the same light (if anything, the D3 got LESS light, since I now have only one lamp switched on in my room, and I think I had two yesterday).
I didn't shoot any frames, but just wanted to see if it hunts.
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B. Slotte
Turku, Finland
http://bslotte.smugmug.com
Tarn Tantikij
Forum Enthusiast
The following is from page 21 of the EOS 1D Mark III White Paper, also written by the camera's creators for more sophisticated audience, which elaborates at length on the 1D3's AF (1) vis-a-vis little in the manual written for the lowest common denominator:With the knowledge of the manual presented, if people insist that the
test is valid, then they think they know more about the 1Ds Mark III
than the camera’s creators.
By the way, just how was the camera and target keep steady on the table?
--
I am out to take the perfect picture, if it exits!
Quote
Even if AI Servo AF is used to focus on a still subject, stable control is enabled so that the lens drive isn’t constantly fine-tuning. If the subject starts to move, the focusing responds immediately to detect the subject constantly.
Unquote
Now, Walter, as a native speaker of English, perhaps you will want to confirm to Mr. Slotte what the above says in term of what he can expect from his use of the AI SERVO mode to focus on a stationary subject.
Steady focus or on and oof.
Furthermore, even without such specifically written vouchsafe, successful photography can be about anticipating and not merely reacting after the fact.
As such a seasoned wildlife photographer, for instance, would expect his sometime motionless subject to suddenly spring into action a la a bird taking off, etc.
Only clueless and inxperienced photographer wannabe and worse copier maker engineer would expect that their best and much boasted camera's AF must be constantly fiddled with to obtain focus in the field.
tarn
(1) 1D3 and 1Ds3 share the same AF subsystem.
Tarn Tantikij
Forum Enthusiast
According to below, take your camera in to be fixed or exchanged:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=28011741
tarn
Tarn Tantikij
Forum Enthusiast
From page 12 of the EOS 1Ds Mark III White Paper:
Quote
The state-of-the-art AF sensor in the EOS-1Ds Mark III is shared with the EOS-1D Mark III. The AI SERVO AF algorithm has been optimized to match the continuous shooting speed of the EOS-1Ds Mark III, approximately 5 fps. Also, due to the full-frame CMOS sensor, the Area AF coverage with respect to the viewfinder is slightly smaller than with the EOS-1D Mark III. The AF speed and predictive AF performance are the same as with the EOS-1D Mark III. All other AF-related specifications not mentioned here are also the same as the best-inclass
EOS-1D Mark III.
Unquote
So there, all 1Ds3 owners rejoice, or grimace according to your experience, you can look forward to the 1Ds3 AF having the same benefits/problems as experienced by the 1D3 owners.
tarn
W
WalterSrChat
Guest
Then the test were not conducted the same!
I would really like to know the source of your comments “after reading in some places that a lens is supposed to remain still if the camera and the target are static (so far I have expected a slight occasional movement to be normal, since the tracking can never be 100% perfect, and the camera AI servo cannot "know" that no movement will happen at all).”!--
I am out to take the perfect picture, if it exits!
W
WalterSrChat
Guest
So, what does all this have to do with the validity of the invalid test performed?The following is from page 21 of the EOS 1D Mark III White Paper,With the knowledge of the manual presented, if people insist that the
test is valid, then they think they know more about the 1Ds Mark III
than the camera’s creators.
By the way, just how was the camera and target keep steady on the table?
--
I am out to take the perfect picture, if it exits!
also written by the camera's creators for more sophisticated
audience, which elaborates at length on the 1D3's AF (1) vis-a-vis
little in the manual written for the lowest common denominator:
Quote
Even if AI Servo AF is used to focus on a still subject, stable
control is enabled so that the lens drive isn’t constantly
fine-tuning. If the subject starts to move, the focusing responds
immediately to detect the subject constantly.
Unquote
Now, Walter, as a native speaker of English, perhaps you will want to
confirm to Mr. Slotte what the above says in term of what he can
expect from his use of the AI SERVO mode to focus on a stationary
subject.
Steady focus or on and oof.
Furthermore, even without such specifically written vouchsafe,
successful photography can be about anticipating and not merely
reacting after the fact.
As such a seasoned wildlife photographer, for instance, would expect
his sometime motionless subject to suddenly spring into action a la a
bird taking off, etc.
Only clueless and inxperienced photographer wannabe and worse copier
maker engineer would expect that their best and much boasted camera's
AF must be constantly fiddled with to obtain focus in the field.
tarn
(1) 1D3 and 1Ds3 share the same AF subsystem.
:0)
--
I am out to take the perfect picture, if it exits!
Tarn Tantikij
Forum Enthusiast
Sr moment.Then the test were not conducted the same!
I would really like to know the source of your comments “after
reading in some places that a lens is supposed to remain still if the
camera and the target are static (so far I have expected a slight
occasional movement to be normal, since the tracking can never be
100% perfect, and the camera AI servo cannot "know" that no movement
will happen at all).”!--
I am out to take the perfect picture, if it exits!
tarn
Tarn Tantikij
Forum Enthusiast
Invalid according to whom?So, what does all this have to do with the validity of the invalid
test performed?
:0)
--
I am out to take the perfect picture, if it exits!
The camera's creators or Walter Sr moment?
tarn
Osiris Ani
Senior Member
Meh; it's mostly just noise. From numerous posts in other threads, we're already well aware of Tarn's opinion on the matter, so it's easiest to just filter it out (or, like me, you could issue unresponsive responses just to see him spin his wheels; it's pretty funny, if you're into that sort of humor).
Well, it may or may not be a point of concern; that has yet to be determined. Those types of test won't necessarily get you results that are as applicable to your style of photography as a real-world test.
What really interests me is whether or not you recognized that you might be suffering a problem under the conditions in which you normally shoot (as I'd previously mentioned). What compelled you to test it in that manner? When you're shooting real subjects, and not just tests on paper, do you have an issue with your focus system?
--
"Passion will make you crazy, but is there any other way to live?" —Kara Saun
Tarn Tantikij
Forum Enthusiast
Yes, I can just picture you holding your ears and chant, "I can't hear you, I can't hear you, I can't hear you, ..., you're not going to influence me, you're not going to influence me, you're not going to influence me, ..." LOL
Nice illustration here:
Hear no problem, see no problem, speak no problem and my camera will retain its resale value.
Several years ago a portrait photographer on the Fuji SLR forum read me writing that the Sigma 28-80/2.8 showed a lot of chromatic aberration on the S2.
The guy was all incensed similar to some Canon apologists and lambasted me that I didn't know what I was talking about, etc.
He offered nice flash studio portraits he shot with the lens as evidence to counter my remarks about the lens.
(Like I can also post perfectly sharp beautiful pictures of pelicans shot with the 1Ds3 and 400/5.6L also, but what would that prove?)
Fast forward to a few posts down the line he announced that he had sold his lens on eBay.
LOL.
tarn
We have been through this before. Your reading more into the statement than is there. The book did not say, AI Servo Mode can not be used with stationary targets. If one wants to believe that AI Servo Mode is restricted to moving targets, then one must also believe that One Shot mode can only be used with stationary targets. Neither mode excludes being used with moving/stationary targets.
You should ask the last Canon Tech Support person I spoke with that question. (Sorry didn't get his name...) Because that is exactly what he did. But it really isn't that hard. See, I just took two pictures with the camera setting on a table with a 70-200, zoomed to 200 and there was no blurring due to movement.
So far you have yet to prove the test was "invalid".
BTW: Just because you say it is so, don't make it so.
W
WalterSrChat
Guest
You left this out!
With the knowledge of the manual presented, if people insist that the test is valid, then they think they know more about the 1Ds Mark III than the camera’s creators.
By the way, just how was the camera and target keep steady on the table?
Read on ……
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=28008600
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=28011447
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=28012337
Communication with some people is like speaking into a vacuum!
Enough said on this thread - The End!
--
I am out to take the perfect picture, if it exits!
Tarn Tantikij
Forum Enthusiast
Yes, I think so too.You left this out!
With the knowledge of the manual presented, if people insist that the
test is valid, then they think they know more about the 1Ds Mark III
than the camera’s creators.
By the way, just how was the camera and target keep steady on the table?
Read on ……
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=28008600
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=28011447
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=28012337
Communication with some people is like speaking into a vacuum!
Enough said on this thread - The End!
--
I am out to take the perfect picture, if it exits!
The end of the line here for Walter Sr chat on this thread.
But you can count on Walter popping up in other focus issue threads to incite the sharer and recite the manual.
How 'bout some pics, Walt old boy?
Maybe you're a great photog in Clouseau disguise leading us on.
Nobody can be this clueless.
tarn
Your statement is based on flawed logic. Because you assume the manual ruled the test as invalid and it did not. Try again.
In both cases the camera just sat there. Is that to hard a concept for you?
Its not like the table was on rolling boat, moving train, or bouncing airplane.
Heres a news flash for you. Even sturdy, professional grade tripods will allow the camera to deflect from its aimed point.
I notice you like to do a lot of hit and run posting.
Anytime someone points out your mistakes and errors, you take for the hills.
Oh and BTW: Got news for you. It ain't over, just because you say is.
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