Camera Shake

[Wes69632]

Hello all.

How much of an issue is camera shake for you folks. I have a lot of outdoor shots recently that appear to have camera shake. I'm seriously wondering if I simply move to soon after the shutter releases - before the image capture is complete. My previous camera was a fully manual SLR, so I not quite used to shutterlag or autofocus lag. I assume that once the shutter noise is finished, the image is captured? I assume that the "recording" banner is just recording lag and doesn't have anything to do with the image capture. Any one else dealt with these issues?
Regards
...Wes

 

[Shariq Shahbazi]

Interesting.. 707 is also my first digital camera and I am also used to SLRs. But I haven't had this problem at all. Specially outdoors, where there would be enough light for a quick exposure. Doesn't make sense.

Shariq Shahbazi

Hello all.
How much of an issue is camera shake for you folks. I have a lot
of outdoor shots recently that appear to have camera shake. I'm
seriously wondering if I simply move to soon after the shutter
releases - before the image capture is complete. My previous
camera was a fully manual SLR, so I not quite used to shutterlag or
autofocus lag. I assume that once the shutter noise is finished,
the image is captured? I assume that the "recording" banner is
just recording lag and doesn't have anything to do with the image
capture. Any one else dealt with these issues?
Regards
...Wes

 

[Yehuda Katz]

Or maybe you have a focusing problem?

Yehuda

Hello all.
How much of an issue is camera shake for you folks. I have a lot
of outdoor shots recently that appear to have camera shake. I'm
seriously wondering if I simply move to soon after the shutter
releases - before the image capture is complete. My previous
camera was a fully manual SLR, so I not quite used to shutterlag or
autofocus lag. I assume that once the shutter noise is finished,
the image is captured? I assume that the "recording" banner is
just recording lag and doesn't have anything to do with the image
capture. Any one else dealt with these issues?
Regards
...Wes

 

[Shay Stephens]

Can you post the camera settings on a photo with camera shake? Or a post a photo so we can see it? Once the camera shows the "recording" on the LCD the exposure is over. So keeping steady from shutter release to recording is important in slow shutter speed shots.

--
Shay

My Sony F707 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp

 

[Zarathu]

To avoid camera shake, the miniMUm shutter speed must be 1/60 of a second.

If you are running on manual set it for that. if you are running on aperature priority, be mindful of the setting, and either get in more light, or do a tripod.

If you are running FULL program be aware of that.

If you are using shutter priority set the shutter at least at 1/60th.

If you are using one of the scene photos treat it like your concern for full program.

BOTTOM LINE: KEEP THE SHUTTER SPEED ABOVE 1/60 IF YOU WANT NO CAMERA SHAKE. oR USE A TRIPOD.

ERIC

Can you post the camera settings on a photo with camera shake? Or
a post a photo so we can see it? Once the camera shows the
"recording" on the LCD the exposure is over. So keeping steady
from shutter release to recording is important in slow shutter
speed shots.

--
Shay

My Sony F707 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp

--
The 2 biggest things: the universe and human stupidity.

The two biggest things: the universe & human stupidity--Albert Einstein

 

[Wes69632]

Zarathu,

No need to shout... as I am used to SLR's, I applied the golden rule that shutter speed should at least be equivalent to focal length, ie. for 180mm, I would use 1/250s. So, in my case I would be using at least 1/250s for my outdoor shots and in most cases I am using 1/500s. So it not a simple as you suggest.
Regards
...Wes

If you are running on manual set it for that. if you are running
on aperature priority, be mindful of the setting, and either get in
more light, or do a tripod.

If you are running FULL program be aware of that.

If you are using shutter priority set the shutter at least at 1/60th.

If you are using one of the scene photos treat it like your
concern for full program.

BOTTOM LINE: KEEP THE SHUTTER SPEED ABOVE 1/60 IF YOU WANT NO
CAMERA SHAKE. oR USE A TRIPOD.

ERIC

Can you post the camera settings on a photo with camera shake? Or
a post a photo so we can see it? Once the camera shows the
"recording" on the LCD the exposure is over. So keeping steady
from shutter release to recording is important in slow shutter
speed shots.

--
Shay

My Sony F707 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp

--
The 2 biggest things: the universe and human stupidity.

The two biggest things: the universe & human stupidity--Albert
Einstein

 

[Wes69632]

Shay:

This is an example of one that I would have preferred a sharper image (straight out of the camera - not postprocessed).



Sot was 1/500s, f/5.6, focal length 18.1mm. I have sharpness set to 0, and autofocus was used to focus. There are other images in this library:
http://www.pbase.com/fenwick/sift

I had posted these images last week for input but I took a whole bunch this past weekend, some turned out pretty sharp, but most were not.
I have some more recent photos that I will post when I get to my home PC.

I can start to use my tripods, but its not practical for some of my field work. I would not expect 1/500s to need a tripod for clarity.
Thanks and regards
...Wes

Can you post the camera settings on a photo with camera shake? Or
a post a photo so we can see it? Once the camera shows the
"recording" on the LCD the exposure is over. So keeping steady
from shutter release to recording is important in slow shutter
speed shots.

--
Shay

My Sony F707 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp

 

[Wes69632]

Yehuda:

This is what I am trying to determine. I'm hoping to rule out the dumb user issues (that would be me) first, before I condemn the camera. What is the difference between poor focus and too much noise. Could my problem be noise? I wouldn't expect noisy pictures on a bright sunny day thought...
Regards
...Wes

Yehuda

Hello all.
How much of an issue is camera shake for you folks. I have a lot
of outdoor shots recently that appear to have camera shake. I'm
seriously wondering if I simply move to soon after the shutter
releases - before the image capture is complete. My previous
camera was a fully manual SLR, so I not quite used to shutterlag or
autofocus lag. I assume that once the shutter noise is finished,
the image is captured? I assume that the "recording" banner is
just recording lag and doesn't have anything to do with the image
capture. Any one else dealt with these issues?
Regards
...Wes

 

[Detlef J]

Hello all.
How much of an issue is camera shake for you folks. I have a lot
of outdoor shots recently that appear to have camera shake. I'm
seriously wondering if I simply move to soon after the shutter
releases - before the image capture is complete. My previous
camera was a fully manual SLR, so I not quite used to shutterlag or
autofocus lag. I assume that once the shutter noise is finished,
the image is captured? I assume that the "recording" banner is
just recording lag and doesn't have anything to do with the image
capture. Any one else dealt with these issues?
Regards
...Wes

Honestly, I do not have this since the DA. I had the P1 before and there was exactly this problem. I moved to soon after shutter release. Now with the DA I get camera shake or blur on longer exposure times only (like on my SLR). But I use the same technic as for the SLR, half press shutter release to let AF do his work and than press full way down when he is ready. It's my habit to always do it that way.

But you are right with the recording message. It has nothing to do with actually capturing the picture, it's just post processing and saving.

Detlef

 

[Shay Stephens]

Looks like your up against the limits of what the mosaic CCD can produce for fine sharpness. If you want sharper looking photos without post processing, then try using in camera sharpening of +1 or +2.

Some of the photos look like they were shot with the digital zoom. Such photos will appear less sharp than photos taken with optical zoom. It looks like your focus is good and I don't see any camera shake. Your just at the limits of what the current crop of CCD's can produce when it comes to sharpness.

For best results, post processing using unsharp mask will work pretty well.

--
Shay

My Sony F707 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp

 

[Detlef J]

Shay:
This is an example of one that I would have preferred a sharper
image (straight out of the camera - not postprocessed).



Sot was 1/500s, f/5.6, focal length 18.1mm. I have sharpness set
to 0, and autofocus was used to focus. There are other images in
this library:
http://www.pbase.com/fenwick/sift
I had posted these images last week for input but I took a whole
bunch this past weekend, some turned out pretty sharp, but most
were not.
I have some more recent photos that I will post when I get to my
home PC.
I can start to use my tripods, but its not practical for some of my
field work. I would not expect 1/500s to need a tripod for clarity.
Thanks and regards
...Wes

This picture looks really strange. But on this reduced one there is no chance to decide if the AF was locked on the rocks in the background. I think you checked this, right?

At 1/500s I would also expect sharp pictures and have so even with motion of the subject. May your camera is broken?

Detlef

 

[Ann McRae]

Mine has just been id'ed as having DLS. I do not think I am going to fix it. Did you get yours fixed in Calgary or have to ship it?

And do you think that your camera issues now are maybe due to the fix?

Ann
--
Canadian Ann
http://www.pbase.com/canadian_ann
http://www.stfchallenge.com
http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html

 

[Shay Stephens]

Remember, whenever you resample an image down in size you will loose sharpness. When unsharp mask is applied to the resized image it looks better and the sharpness is restored.

Resampled and unsharp mask applied:



Resampled without unsharp mask applied:



--
Shay

My Sony F707 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp

 

[Ken N]

I agree with you completely. After using a film SLR camera, the digitals (all four that I've owned) are prone to camera shake. Even photos taken outside aren't beyond shake although not nearly as much as low-light photos. I still maintain that the digitals require more light (or time) to accomplish the same level of exposure as, say, an ASA 200 film. I guess it comes down to using a tripod when you're in moderate to low levels of light. Either that, or use as high of an ISO setting as reasonably possible.

Hello all.
How much of an issue is camera shake for you folks. I have a lot
of outdoor shots recently that appear to have camera shake. I'm
seriously wondering if I simply move to soon after the shutter
releases - before the image capture is complete. My previous
camera was a fully manual SLR, so I not quite used to shutterlag or
autofocus lag. I assume that once the shutter noise is finished,
the image is captured? I assume that the "recording" banner is
just recording lag and doesn't have anything to do with the image
capture. Any one else dealt with these issues?
Regards
...Wes

 

[Loren Charif]

I was just going to ask the same question, but slightly differently...did you ever notice this problem prior to your DLS fix?

I don't see how it could be camera shake unless your shutter is staying open longer than the stated speed; theoretically, assuming your camera's shutter is accurate, if you use 1/250 (as an example), you should be able to move the camera at 1/251 and not have it show up in the shot.

Loren

Mine has just been id'ed as having DLS. I do not think I am going
to fix it. Did you get yours fixed in Calgary or have to ship it?

And do you think that your camera issues now are maybe due to the fix?

Ann
--
Canadian Ann
http://www.pbase.com/canadian_ann
http://www.stfchallenge.com
http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html

--
http://www.pbase.com/lorenbc/

 

[Wes69632]

Shay:

Thanks for the feedback. I have been wondering if I am just at the limit of the expected results for this CCD. I will post some more later, maybe you could browse them as well.

PS. I have been using the USM with good results. I generally use 1 pixel radius, strength 80% and 2 pixel clipping.
Regards
...Wes

Looks like your up against the limits of what the mosaic CCD can
produce for fine sharpness. If you want sharper looking photos
without post processing, then try using in camera sharpening of +1
or +2.

Some of the photos look like they were shot with the digital zoom.
Such photos will appear less sharp than photos taken with optical
zoom. It looks like your focus is good and I don't see any camera
shake. Your just at the limits of what the current crop of CCD's
can produce when it comes to sharpness.

For best results, post processing using unsharp mask will work
pretty well.

--
Shay

My Sony F707 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp

 

[Wes69632]

Detlef:

The resampling is part of this medium jpeg. Check out the original for full resolution:
http://www.pbase.com/image/2050595
It doesn't look like the AF locked onto the rocks...
Regards
...Wes

This picture looks really strange. But on this reduced one there is
no chance to decide if the AF was locked on the rocks in the
background. I think you checked this, right?
At 1/500s I would also expect sharp pictures and have so even with
motion of the subject. May your camera is broken?

Detlef

 

[Detlef J]

Remember, whenever you resample an image down in size you will
loose sharpness. When unsharp mask is applied to the resized image
it looks better and the sharpness is restored.

Shay, youre absolutely right. But doesn't it look like the rocks are sharp?

I do have a problem with the DA. The focus is anywhere but I want sometime. So the brackets in the LCD or EVF is no indication where the focus works, thats a problem. The DA seams to catch any straight line or contrast to focus on the whole ccd image.

Detlef

 

[Wes69632]

Ann:

I had both cameras repaired for DLS by a Sony Service tech in northeast Calgary. I drive over on my lunch breaks and talk directly with the Sony tech. I'll try to keep this short. My original camera had DLS and I sent it for repair. When lens block assembly was found to be on back order, they simply gave me a new camera. The replacement camera had severe DLS. I got my original camera back and the replacement waited for the new lens block. When it was fixed, I got the replacement for testing. I found the nightshot/nightframing no longer worked, so back for fixing. It is with the fixed replacement camera that I seem to have a lack of sharpness. Now, my original has been repaired for DLS and they swapped me back so I can test it. I will keep the one that I am happy with, so that's why I'm seeking all this input from STFers. I will be testing my fixed original over the week and need to make a decision by then. I would like to point out that Sony Canada has been outstanding in their service and when all is said and done, they should be experts on replacing the lens block. I was amazed at all the calibration and internal settings that they have control over that don't show up in the menus that you and I are allowed to see. For example, on the fixed replacement the LCD and EVF were quite "washed out" compared to my original. It seems that when they plug the 707 into their computers, they have total control over contrast and brightness - essentially, they define "normal".
Regards
...Wes

PS. I would like to point out that I have stopped taking sky photos though!! DLS is completely eliminated, don't even have any vignetting!

Mine has just been id'ed as having DLS. I do not think I am going
to fix it. Did you get yours fixed in Calgary or have to ship it?

And do you think that your camera issues now are maybe due to the fix?

Ann
--
Canadian Ann
http://www.pbase.com/canadian_ann
http://www.stfchallenge.com
http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html

 

[Shay Stephens]

The rocks will be sharp. The aperture was F4 and the photo was taken from a distance so the DOF would be big enough to capture the rocks as well as the people in focus.

I very rarely get a badly focused shot so cannot really give you any suggestions on what the problem may be. Generic advice would be to half press with the subject in the brackets and then reviewing the shot after it has been taken, zoomed all the way in, to verify focus.

--
Shay

My Sony F707 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp