D300 vs Canon 40D Noise

ThaQuest

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I shoot with a Canon 40D but I'm curious about the noise performance of the D300. From what I have seen online, it looks pretty darn good, and even appears to have less noise than the Canon 5D (although not as sharp) But for those who have experience with both the D300 and the 40D, what are your findings? Are ISO 3200 images as usable as those from the 40D? Is ISO 6400 usable? That's something I wish the 40D had...

Take care,
Jesse

---------------------------------------------
Images of China: http://www.shenzhenphotos.com
Photos for Charity: http://www.photogiving.com
 
i dont have any experience actually using a 40d. ive seen comparisons, and the d300 is at least as good noise wise.

i shoot my d300 with noise reduction off. usually the grain at high isos doesnt bother me near as much as loss of detail. with the nikon there seems to be far less chrominance noise than the 40d. i think nikon adds this noise reduction even when the NR is turned off. which is fine with me.

as far as using 6400, i really like the look of it when converted to B/W. some people are so caught up in the noise department though. i think film-like noise/grain looks great. of course i love using delta 3200 in my mamiya 7 too. so i think its a question of taste.



this is a heavy crop at HI1, and unsharp mask which accentuates the grain.
 
I think D300 and 40D are similar in noise performance. Perhaps 40D is a little more cleaner in ISO100-200 range. ISO 3200 is ok but need careful NR. ISO 6400 is for emergency only.

Imaging-Resource gives a very detailed review with samples:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D300/D300A.HTM
I shoot with a Canon 40D but I'm curious about the noise performance
of the D300. From what I have seen online, it looks pretty darn good,
and even appears to have less noise than the Canon 5D (although not
as sharp) But for those who have experience with both the D300 and
the 40D, what are your findings? Are ISO 3200 images as usable as
those from the 40D? Is ISO 6400 usable? That's something I wish the
40D had...

Take care,
Jesse

---------------------------------------------
Images of China: http://www.shenzhenphotos.com
Photos for Charity: http://www.photogiving.com
 
Not a bad capture for 6400 considering the crop and sharpening. FYI, the chroma noise of the 40D is pretty much gone with the new NR feature which also retains sharpness and delivers a more film-like look Nikon has had for so long!

---------------------------------------------
Images of China: http://www.shenzhenphotos.com
Photos for Charity: http://www.photogiving.com
 
I have both and my experience is that for most practical reasons you can forget about the noise difference between them.

Nikon does apply some chroma noise reduction even when set to "off" at higher ISOs which gives a bit of colourless images at 3200 and up (we´re talking snapping in more or less darkness here!)

At 3200 the 40D is cleraly noisier (chroma noise) but gives more colour information (until you run some noise reduction in PP).

My experience also is, that D300 is a little more sensitive. I´ve tested with the same lens on both with the same exposure and the 40D files come in a little darker, I´d say at least 1/3 stop. This is the opposite of what we used to have between Canon and Nikon.

If you want the B&W grainy look of yesteryear D300 is the way to go :)

Under normal shooting conditions at less demanding ISOs there is very little between them IQ wise, as long as you shoot RAW. As for JPEG, well, they´re both mushy but 40D is cleraly worst! Both apply liberal amounts of noise reduction in their JPEG engines to present "clean" images, it´s really not funny. And as I said, in my opinion the 40D is worse.
 
cool i didnt know that. i would have looked more seriously at the 40d, but lenses, and the fact that i tend to root for the underdog, kept me with nikon. history tells us that both companies leapfrog each other every few years anyway.

the photo posted is at HI1, which is 4000 something... cant remember the exact ISO right now, but given the fact that its around a quarter of the frame, i think it may give a descent idea.

shot with the 85 1.8 gives very (bright) exposures for my taste, so some exposure fine tuning is in order.
Not a bad capture for 6400 considering the crop and sharpening. FYI,
the chroma noise of the 40D is pretty much gone with the new NR
feature which also retains sharpness and delivers a more film-like
look Nikon has had for so long!

---------------------------------------------
Images of China: http://www.shenzhenphotos.com
Photos for Charity: http://www.photogiving.com
 
Noise with the D300 is about the same as with the 40D which is a big improvement for the Nikon. It is quite usable at ISO 3200 while with the D200 the noise would start to jump once past ISO 1250.

Bottom line is that you can get Nikon QC and lens durability and zoom quality without having to deal with a less capable high ISO IQ.

The area where the 40D is a bit better than the D300 is with regard to low light AF with or without a flash and IR assist.
 
like i said, i havent used the 40d, but with my 85 1.8 and various 2.8 lenses i can autofocus in near dark conditions. i usually use single area AF but never have a problem, its almost instantaneous. with the 51 point 3d it takes a second to find the focus in the dark, but i dont even think the canon has that option.

i have heard that the 40d is very fast to react to your finger initiating AF, but as far as locking and tracking, the d300 will be hard to beat if you have the right settings punched in.
Noise with the D300 is about the same as with the 40D which is a big
improvement for the Nikon. It is quite usable at ISO 3200 while with
the D200 the noise would start to jump once past ISO 1250.

Bottom line is that you can get Nikon QC and lens durability and zoom
quality without having to deal with a less capable high ISO IQ.

The area where the 40D is a bit better than the D300 is with regard
to low light AF with or without a flash and IR assist.
 
Not a bad capture for 6400 considering the crop and sharpening. FYI,
the chroma noise of the 40D is pretty much gone with the new NR
feature which also retains sharpness and delivers a more film-like
look Nikon has had for so long!
D300, ISO 6400 minus one stop, compensated in Photoshop. B&W in camera.



--
Small first D300 gallery:
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/d300_first
Small D200 gallery:
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/d200_12
Small D40 gallery:
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/d40_12
Small Nikon P5000 gallery:
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/nikonp5000_12
http://www.pbase.com/interactive
 
I shoot with a Canon 40D but I'm curious about the noise performance
of the D300. From what I have seen online, it looks pretty darn good,
and even appears to have less noise than the Canon 5D (although not
as sharp) But for those who have experience with both the D300 and
the 40D, what are your findings? Are ISO 3200 images as usable as
those from the 40D? Is ISO 6400 usable? That's something I wish the
40D had...

Take care,
Jesse

---------------------------------------------
Images of China: http://www.shenzhenphotos.com
Photos for Charity: http://www.photogiving.com
You can see D300 test results http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydslra700/page17.asp and compare with
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos40d/page18.asp

Why has Phil compared 40D and D200? 40D and D300 are they same level? 5D has a large pixel size and must have a better signal noise ratio or...
 
I don't have the D300 myself so i went to the store to test it out and see what all the fuzz was about.

I took a portrait of the woman in the store at ISO 6400 just to test it out and was blown away with the quality when i got home. More than usable for web viewing and smaller prints.
The shot is even slightly cropped, and with some noise reduction applied.

The portrait in itself is terrible, but i think the image quality speaks for itself.

 
Sold the 40D in the end (I preferred the bells and wistlhles of the D300 and I had more Nikon glass)

From my experience:

In controlled condition with preset exposure and in the range 100-1600 ISO there was very little difference between them if you activate the chroma noise reduction on the 40D. I would go out on a limb and dare to say that the 40D was slightly better at 100 and 400 ISO while it was a draw at other sensitivities.
At 3200, the D300 clearly takes the lead.

In real life conditions the D300 usually performed a lot better because of of several reasons:

1) The matrix meter sometimes gave hugely better results than the evaluative metering which often made pictures too dark which resulted in unnessary noise
2) The superior auto ISO function of the D300 always picks the optimum ISO
3) at 3200 the D300 takes the lead

4) NR on the D300 can be set off,low, normal,high (40D off/on) and in low mode it works really wel.

The following is an example of the metering difference:
200% crops, ISO1600, NR off on both cams
Left is the D300 automatic exposure
Middle is 40D aytomatic exposure
Right is 40D with +1,33 EV compensation



As you can see, it is the matrix metering that makes the difference in this picture, not the sensor.
If you use the same exposure, the results are very similar

Even in very low light where T & A are at their limit, the fact that the D300 meters hotter, makes it use/ask a higher ISO which means less read noise and a brighter picture. Resulting in good noise performance.

Caveat Lector: these are my personal experiences, your mileage may vary.

--
cameras don't shoot people
People shoot people.
 
The EXIF information seems to indicate that even greater negative compensation was applied...?

Best regards,
Adam
 
Is that so? I thought the new pro AF in the D300 would give it the edge. What happened there? Actually I don't find my 40D to focus much better in low light than my 30D, despite the new AF and what everyone else seems to be experiencing, and I do shoot in A LOT of low light situations. Then again I am usually using a 50 1.8 at these times which probably isn't that great for focusing anyways.
The area where the 40D is a bit better than the D300 is with regard
to low light AF with or without a flash and IR assist.
---------------------------------------------
Images of China: http://www.shenzhenphotos.com
Photos for Charity: http://www.photogiving.com
 
Although the artifacts are quite visible, that's impressive. Thanks for the example.
I don't have the D300 myself so i went to the store to test it out
and see what all the fuzz was about.
I took a portrait of the woman in the store at ISO 6400 just to test
it out and was blown away with the quality when i got home. More than
usable for web viewing and smaller prints.
The shot is even slightly cropped, and with some noise reduction
applied.
The portrait in itself is terrible, but i think the image quality
speaks for itself.
---------------------------------------------
Images of China: http://www.shenzhenphotos.com
Photos for Charity: http://www.photogiving.com
 
The EXIF information seems to indicate that even greater negative
compensation was applied...?

Best regards,
Adam
Yes, its because the 85 1.8 IMO often overexposes about 0.7 stop, so when I use that lens I dial in a -0.7 compensation as a default.
--
Small first D300 gallery:
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/d300_first
Small D200 gallery:
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/d200_12
Small D40 gallery:
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/d40_12
Small Nikon P5000 gallery:
http://www.pbase.com/interactive/nikonp5000_12
http://www.pbase.com/interactive
 
My guess is that the canon's AF sensors still have slightly better noise performance than nikon's.
Don't forget that this is where canon started to build their CMOS experience.

And the complexity and density of the cam 3500 with its 51 AF points may also be the reason for slightly worse raw performamce than the simpler 9 point AF module in the Canon.

--
cameras don't shoot people
People shoot people.
 
Is ISO 6400 usable? That's something I wish the
40D had...
It does. You just shoot at ISO 1600, EC = -2 in raw and then bump the exposure slider up 2 stops during conversion. ISO 3200 is already implemented this way (but with EC = -1), which is why I don't suggest starting with this as your base. You get a digital rather than analog amplification of your sensor signal, which means a loss of 2 bits of bit depth, but this is perfectly fine since (a) you're starting with a 14-bit signal and (b) even 12 bits is overkill for capturing all the actual information that's in the signal (at these ISO values, anyway).

David
 
since I do shoot both. They are very very close. The 40D may have the edge at 3200, but again it's close and if it does have the edge it's likely at the cost of detail from NR. We should have more data once the dpr D300 review is complete as they will surely compare these two models in that review. I have not personally done a 100% crop comparison simply because for all practical purposes they are the same in field use.

Maybe this helps some.

--
-jts
http://www.pbase.com/jtsmall
Canon, Nikon and Olympus
equipment in profile

'From the first moment I handled my lens with a tender ardour.' Julia Margaret Cameron
 

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