Another

em_dee_aitch

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Location
Austin, TX and San Francisco, CA, US
Dear Canon -

Prior to the 1d3 incident, I was looking forward to your 20th EOS anniversary. I was a 1d3 early adopter, and I had a deposit paid months in advance on the 1ds3. But now, due to your poor handling of this incident, I have just this week returned the 1d3 for a full refund and transferred my 1ds3 deposit onto a pair of Nikon D3's. But while most of us here are focusing on the 1d3 debacle, I would like to remind you that your failure to serve us over the last couple of years extends beyond just the 1d3. Specifically, you have failed to serve us in the area of providing the best professional quality lenses, particularly in the 2.8 pro zoom area.

Example 1: 16-35/2.8

Your 16-35/2.8 released in 2001 was inferior to the Nikon 17-35/2.8 which was released in 1999. The version II revision this year brought it up to parity -- perhaps parity -- without breaking any new ground. At the same time, you hyped this lens as being better across the entire zoom range than its predecessor. However, this is totally false. All testing that I have seen, including my own, proves that this lens was only an improvement from 16-21mm and was a clear regression from 24-35mm. I found this to be very, very disappointing. And while you still try to achieve parity with Nikon's 1999 design in this space, you have allowed Nikon to pull way ahead with a 14-24/2.8, which by early reports appears to be the best wide angle lens of the auto focus era, and at a price point hundreds less than your 14mm prime. You have been clearly spanked there.

Example 2: 70-200/2.8 IS

At the 200mm end, this lens is a clear disappointment. Many will refuse to acknowledge how soft it can be, but we know it's true. It is soft... You have proved to us with your 70-200/4.0 IS that you know exactly how to fix this issue in a same-size form factor in this zoom range (based on clear improvment against it's 4.0 non-IS predacessor), and yet you continue to withhold this desperately needed revision on us. I expect you will release a revision within the next year, but it's already too late as far as I'm concerned.

Example 3: 24-70/2.8

Overall, I think this is the most optically adequate I've mentioned so far, but you've allowed Nikon to pull ahead again with a slimmer and more attractive design that by early reports would seem to be optically superior. Additionally, this is a lens that for many customers has been an inconsistent performer with a reputation of requiring trips to CPS for calibration.

Yes, I would say that many of your other lenses are great, but those 3 serve the foundation of all daily professional work, and you have let those three slide into unacceptable disadvantage relative to your competition. When that is combined with the 1d3 incident, I am very inclined to give Nikon a share of my money. Mind you that I am not yet abandoning the Canon system. I am retaining about half of my Canon glass, particularly pieces like the 24/1.4 which Nikon does not offer. But sadly, my Canon bodies will be stuck at the 5D and 1d2 era until such time that you become trustworthy again.

Oh, and I must mention the final nail in the coffin: You, Canon, CLEARLY possessed all the abilities necessary to have built a 1d3 as a full frame camera that would have competed directly against the D3 as a true competitor. But instead, you decided to further the arbitrary segmentation of your product line, offering me two different cameras -- the 1d3 and 1ds3 -- which do not meet my needs. The Nikon D3 is the camera which YOU should have built, because you could have. Your decision to continue the 1.3x sensor was a major mistake. I know you have a cadre of telephoto shooters who think that 1.3x is the greatest thing ever due to the "free teleconversion" effect, but to the rest of us doing normal work, the full frame 12 MP low light capable specification embodied by the D3 was the PERFECT spec that we had been waiting for. And you totally dropped the ball on that.

So in summary, I feel betrayed 3 ways by Canon this year: The inept and unethical handling of the 1d3 debacle, the mishandling of lens offerings which has put Nikon way out front in the key area of 2.8 pro zooms, and the marketing mismanagement of the 1-series product line which allowed Nikon to bring the D3 to market with absolutely NO competition from you--an amazing disappointment.

I hope you can pull yourselves back together in less than a 3-year product cycle.

Best of luck doing that.

--
David Hill
http://www.davidhillphoto.com
Austin, Texas
 
Well, I just think my perspective needs to be embodied in one unified letter rather than scattered through 20 different posts, which it otherwise is. I'm part of a demographic that Canon should care about. I may not be some giant agency, but on a per capita basis - which is to say that I'm just one dude - I spend a lot of money on Canon gear... at least up until now!

Oh, and I guess I just learned -- don't use quotation marks in thread titles on DPReview, or your thread title may get truncated down to one word!

--
David Hill
http://www.davidhillphoto.com
Austin, Texas
 
Gee whiz - take some pictures, already...!
--

5D, 24-70 f2.8 L, 20 f2.8, 100 f2.8 macro, 50 f1.4, 24 F3.5 TS-E, Lensbabies, 550 ex,
EOS Elan, 420 ez, PowerShot S400 & SD20, Sony DCR-TRV-900, G5 Dual
PowerMac & 15' AU PowerBook
 
Gee whiz - take some pictures, already...!
Ya, ya, ya... If you don't think Canon needs many earfuls of this, then you must not be a participant in the EOS 20th Anniversary as of yet.... And there's still a fighting chance I've already taken more pics than you this week. It is after all my job :-)

--
David Hill
http://www.davidhillphoto.com
Austin, Texas
 
Looks like Nikon has the beginnings of a great wedding photogs kit.

d3, 14-24, 24-70, 70-200....all 2.8.....if Nikon makes the primes 24 1.4, 35 1.4, 50 1.2 and 85 1.2 then Canon users will really be screaming.

Problem for landscape photogs, the 14-24 can't take filters on the front.

Looks like your are joining Susan Stripling.

Dave
 
.....if Nikon makes the primes 24 1.4, 35 1.4, 50 1.2
and 85 1.2 then Canon users will really be
screaming.
Yes, I would say that a 24/1.4 should be Nikon's first priority... I have never been sold on the Canon 50/1.2, but I absolutely love the Canon 50/1.4, and Nikon's 50/1.4 seems pretty equivalent.
Looks like your are joining Susan Stripling.
LoL. I don't think she's aware of that yet, but I'll take being put in her company as a compliment. And hey -- I did, just about 5 minutes ago -- win a top 10 placement (7th place, Ceremony) in the WPJA Quarterly Contest!

--
David Hill
http://www.davidhillphoto.com
Austin, Texas
 
So what's your opinion of the 5D's AF in low-light, no flash allowed churches?
 
So what's your opinion of the 5D's AF in low-light, no flash allowed
churches?
I think the central AF point is fine, but the outer ring of AF points are useless--at least individually. Sometimes it would seem that turning them all on at once (auto AF point selection) gives them a collective strength... but I have not formally studied that idea.

--
David Hill
http://www.davidhillphoto.com
Austin, Texas
 
While I, too, am dismayed by Canon as of late:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=24977800
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029&message=25973530

I feel a little perspective is warranted. First of all, the 5D was like a gift from God, and it came a full two years ago with no answer from the competition. Furthermore, who has an answer to the 24 / 1.4L, 50 / 1.2L, 85 / 1.2L, and 70-200 / 4L IS, to name a few?

Admittedly, one cannot rest on past laurels, and it certainly appears that Canon has gotten sloppy and/or lazy as of late, and spending your money on Nikon's outstanding D3 is the "proper" way to voice such sentiment.

But it is only because Canon was so good before that they seem to have fallen so far. In reality, Canon has not fallen; rather, the competition has stepped up, and stepped up with a vengence.

Hopefully, the "sleeping giant" will be awakened by this, and have a strong answer in the next gen of bodies and lenses, maybe even beginning with the 5DII (3D/7D split?).

Yes, there's reason to be disappointed. But livin' was easy for a while, too, and hopefully will be so again soon.

--
--joe

http://www.josephjamesphotography.com
http://www.pbase.com/joemama/
 
I feel a little perspective is warranted. First of all, the 5D was
like a gift from God, and it came a full two years ago with no
answer from the competition.
Yes, agreed the 5D has been a great thing. I had to take two of them back to the store for excessive hot pixels before I had a keeper, but still a great thing. A very compromised great thing in terms of build quality and AF, but then again that's why it was $5k less than the 1dm2. The 5D is also what taught most of us that putting fewer megapixels into a larger space would give the best IQ--somebody please tell that to Olympus.
Furthermore, who has an answer to the
24 / 1.4L, 50 / 1.2L, 85 / 1.2L, and 70-200 / 4L IS, to name a few?
Well, you might enjoy knowing the Canon glass that I am keeping:

24/1.4L - obvious
50/1.4 - pretty untouchable, and cheap
70-200/4.0L IS - possibly best zoom lens ever; 2.8 IS can't compete
24-85mm Contax Zeiss, Conurus converted :o)
15mm fisheye - Nikon's more expensive and maybe not as good
135/2.0 - ditto

16-35mm version 1 - I will take it over v2 when forced to choose. Though it's not often heralded as such, when used at 24mm/5.6 it's possibly the best 24mm lens Canon has made. And when forced to choose, I take it's CA and overall sharpness over the v2's improved CA with lack of sharpness over its 21mm peak, relatively speaking. And aside from that, I have lugged version 1 through Paris, London, Prague, Shanghai, Tokyo, Chicago, Seattle, LA, and many boring places.... and besides, I'll have much better wides from Nikon from now on.... If I were not adding Nikon to my stable, and were forced to choose, I would begrudgingly choose the v2 for its wide end. But I wouldn't be happy about it.
Admittedly, one cannot rest on past laurels, and it certainly appears
that Canon has gotten sloppy and/or lazy as of late, and spending
your money on Nikon's outstanding D3 is the "proper" way to voice
such sentiment.
Agreed again :)
But it is only because Canon was so good before that they seem to
have fallen so far. In reality, Canon has not fallen; rather, the
competition has stepped up, and stepped up with a vengence.
Thank goodness. I'm sick of Canon (apparently) slowing the market pace in an effort to maximize profit by taking advantage of Nikon's (now former) inability to compete. I always resented that, and I'm glad to see Canon get their just rewards for that policy. Personally, I have believed for a long time that the decision to not take the 1d3 full frame was a result of this policy. Of course Canon isn't talking about that.

--
David Hill
http://www.davidhillphoto.com
Austin, Texas
 
Did you send a copy directly to Canon? I hope so, because that might be far more effective than posting it here. Yeah, I know Canon employees read this forum, so do store personell, but a direct contact with Canon would make sure that who you wanted to see it actually did.

We've been kicking around the same decision that you've made, but we can't afford to take the hit on lenses and peripherals that we'd have to in order to follow suit. By the way, I don't agree with your assesment of either the 24-70 or the 70-200, the f4 version of the latter is sharper, but it's non IS predecessor was sharper than the f2.8 non IS, too. And both of them are the equals of any of the Nikons I've seen. It's the handling of the 1D mkIII foul up and the failure to consolidate the 1 series (and possibly the 5D, too) into one camera that has us thinking about switching. I'd be satisfied with two 1D bodies, both full frame, one 12-16mp and 8-10 fps at $3500-$4000, the other cutting edge at 21-24 mp, and no 5D.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart
 
Did you send a copy directly to Canon? I hope so, because that might
be far more effective than posting it here. Yeah, I know Canon
employees read this forum, so do store personell, but a direct
contact with Canon would make sure that who you wanted to see it
actually did.
I've talked to CPS on the phone about my dissatisfaction with both the 1d3 and the service levels of late. I didn't bother to chide them about the marketing failures, because that is not their fault. Maybe I should send a copy of my letter directly to Canon. However, I know the industry people read this board, even if they don't admit it. It's obvious they must. Lots of the lower level folks will admit to reading it.

--
David Hill
http://www.davidhillphoto.com
Austin, Texas
 
in your opinion (and others)... what did you consider excessive as
far as the hot pixels is concerned on the 5D?
On the first two, I could see clusters of red pixels near the center of the frame when in Photo Mechanic or Aperture. Note that Photoshop RAW will automatically hide hot pixels from you, which is good for processing. I have quite using Aperture, so not sure if they have implemented hot pixel auto-hiding yet. One of the 5d's I returned had a cluster of nearly 9 red pixels in a 3x3 square pattern. I think the overall pattern was like 7 red and 2 green.

It is true that over time stuck pixels will come and (some say) go, but I don't like to start off that bad. My 1d2 has developed a few over time, but it's not that big a deal considering that it started off nearly perfect and most of its are green or blue, which are far less obtrusive than red.

--
David Hill
http://www.davidhillphoto.com
Austin, Texas
 

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