What's a Kodak Gray Card Equivalent?

[Cosmic Mah]

Hi,

I was wondering what would be an equivalent gray color to the Kodak white balance card? Just wondering what else I could use instead of ordering a simple gray card.

Thanks

 

[Al Pacheco]

The importance of the grey card is the fact that it is neutral in color. This is not easy to make and a home-brew item might look neutral but in reality would have a color cast that your eyes would not detect.

The card is very useful for white-balancing.

It also has a density of 0.75 which is just about 2/3 stop from the meter calibration in your camera (most cameras are set to about 0.95). So it allows for accurate exposure measurements if you are careful.

Not expensive, either.

Hi,

I was wondering what would be an equivalent gray color to the Kodak
white balance card? Just wondering what else I could use instead of
ordering a simple gray card.

Thanks

 

[Peter Gregg]

You can use the top of a styrofoam coffe cup. Not very cool but folks here have used it successfully. There is also something called an Expodisk. It work like a filter, going on your lens like the styrofoam top would but designed for it.

I have tested with Tupperware tops and other plastic tops. Some come in with the same response at the gray card. I still use a gray card. It works, and as they say if it ain't broke . . .

Pete

 

[Neil Turner]

The genuine Kodak grey card is worth the money. I made the mistake of buying a plastic "wipe clean" alternative, but it had a slightly reflective surface so gave false results. I find that I replace my card every year or so because they get dog-eared and the colour does shift as they get dirty.

Neil

 

[Cosmic Mah]

I know a home-brew gray card would be a little off. I'm just curious as to what creative things people have used. Like Peter mentioned, tupperware tops and other items.

I've read in another forum, Nikon SLR, that the color code is 127, 127, 127. Yielding the most neutral color. I'm not sure how well that will work, though I am willing to try it.

Thanks again for your feedback.

Hi,

I was wondering what would be an equivalent gray color to the Kodak
white balance card? Just wondering what else I could use instead of
ordering a simple gray card.

Thanks

 

[Cosmic Mah]

What's the size of the original Kodak card? I'm thinking it's the size of a business card. Or is it almost 5x7?

Peter, what's this expodisk that you mentioned? Is that a brand like Kodak?

The genuine Kodak grey card is worth the money. I made the mistake
of buying a plastic "wipe clean" alternative, but it had a slightly
reflective surface so gave false results. I find that I replace my
card every year or so because they get dog-eared and the colour
does shift as they get dirty.

Neil

 

[john cornicello]

The Kodak Gray Card usually comes in a package of two 8x10 and one or two 4x5 cards. The larger one is much easier to use.

Make sure to read the directions if you are going to use it for exposure settings. Most people read the card, set the meter, and then complain that their images are too dark. The instructions say to read off the card and then OPEN UP 1/2 stop. That is because the gray card relects 18% and the ANSI standard for camera meters is 13%. About 1/2 stop difference.

If using for white balance you can use either side. A few folks here have tested it and preferred the white side. However, I've had better results from using the gray side in the studio with flash.

John

What's the size of the original Kodak card? I'm thinking it's the
size of a business card. Or is it almost 5x7?

 

[James Long]

If you want to determine correct exposure, not color balance, use the palm of your hand. The beauty of this approach is that it works no matter what your skin color. The lightness of the skin of anyone's palm will be about one (1) f stop higher than a gray card reading. In other words, read the palm and increase exposure by one stop.

The reason this works is that exposure requirements for photography are so crude. Plus or minus one f/stop is plus 100% or -50%. Each f/stop doubles or halves the exposure.

I used this method to successfully photograph a wide variety of subjects for years before light meters came into regular use.

 

[Cosmic Mah]

I'm looking to correctly set white balance. I'm just a beginner and have to learn one thing at a time, otherwise I'll get too confused.
Your post is much appreciated.

If you want to determine correct exposure, not color balance, use
the palm of your hand. The beauty of this approach is that it works
no matter what your skin color. The lightness of the skin of
anyone's palm will be about one (1) f stop higher than a gray card
reading. In other words, read the palm and increase exposure by one
stop.

The reason this works is that exposure requirements for photography
are so crude. Plus or minus one f/stop is plus 100% or -50%. Each
f/stop doubles or halves the exposure.

I used this method to successfully photograph a wide variety of
subjects for years before light meters came into regular use.

 

[Cosmic Mah]

How would you carry that around with you?
I guess it's mostly for studio and you'd carry the 4x5 around.

I'm trying to figure out white balance 1st. I'll try to learn correct exposure after I get this custom white balance down pact.

Thanks John.

Make sure to read the directions if you are going to use it for
exposure settings. Most people read the card, set the meter, and
then complain that their images are too dark. The instructions say
to read off the card and then OPEN UP 1/2 stop. That is because the
gray card relects 18% and the ANSI standard for camera meters is
13%. About 1/2 stop difference.

If using for white balance you can use either side. A few folks
here have tested it and preferred the white side. However, I've had
better results from using the gray side in the studio with flash.

John

What's the size of the original Kodak card? I'm thinking it's the
size of a business card. Or is it almost 5x7?

 

[Mastrianni]

Cosmic Mah,
For white balance, invest in grey card,($10-15) and try this;
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1025&message=2590128

For exposure, use an incident meter, ambient/flash. I use Minolta IV, but any incident metering will be more precise than reflective meter. (in camera) Not to mention, it can measure flash & flash/ambient combinations for dead on accuracy.
Mastrianni

 

[JohnM31499]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0879857544/qid%3D/104-1586769-3977555

-John

 

[GiBS]

i'm curious about all this talk of using a grey card to set white balance. I thought the point was to shoot something white and use that as the white balance which makes sense to me. Using something grey to set the white balance seems odd to me. could someone explain how/why this works? thanks =)

Cosmic Mah,
For white balance, invest in grey card,($10-15) and try this;
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1025&message=2590128
For exposure, use an incident meter, ambient/flash. I use Minolta
IV, but any incident metering will be more precise than reflective
meter. (in camera) Not to mention, it can measure flash &
flash/ambient combinations for dead on accuracy.
Mastrianni

 

[Mastrianni]

White balance, which is really video terminology, is actually color temperture balance. A grey card is color neutral, and not all white things, like a piece of paper, are actually neutral, and may contain color casts. White is fine, too, but only if it is truly neutral.

 

[john cornicello]

Theoretically, white is a lighter shade of gray. Or gray is a darker shade of white. Both sides of the card should reflect the same color, but the white side is 5 stops brighter than the gray side. There should be no color cast in the card itself (on either side).

John

i'm curious about all this talk of using a grey card to set white
balance. I thought the point was to shoot something white and use
that as the white balance which makes sense to me. Using something
grey to set the white balance seems odd to me. could someone
explain how/why this works? thanks =)

 

[Peter Gregg]

The term WHITE is confusing you.

Here is a good starting point. Your camera is calibrated to bring whites in at 18 percent gray. So a lot of people who are confused why the camera is underexposing are not seeing a perfectly exposed frame and think it is off. The meter tries to bring whites in at 18 percent gray. When you add flash to this question, the confusion will get even greater because the ETTL flash system purposely underexposes by one stop AND exposes whites to come in gray.

Okay - so now you are confused. Don't try to design the system, just try and understand it first. What is means to you is this, the camera reads 18 percent gray as white. So, to get dazzling colors get a gray card and use it. If you compare the images before and after, you will be convinced.

When you apply the same theory to flash, you will start to realize you will need to expose at something close to plus 1 for ETTL flash, and put your pocusing point on something in between black and 18 percent gray.

If you try to fight the system you will have a hard time, but if you understand how the camera is calibrated you can get some great shots!

Pete

 

[Mastrianni]

Peter,

Respectfully, I must misunderstand what you're saying. Exposure and color balance, (white balance), are 2 separate issues. A grey card is neutral color. The opposite side of this card, which is white (sometimes..sometimes it's grey, or has writing on it), can be used for white balance...because it's neutral, not because it's grey or white. This same 18% grey can also be used for exposure settings, carefully following the instructions with the card, with a reflectance meter. As I only use a handheld incident meter, I do not use grey cards for exposure. Setting WB has nothing to do with exposure, and in fact, I set WB after the fact, as explained in my link above.

If I misunderstood, my apologies. But, again, the white side on a grey card is neutral, and may be used for WB, but not all white things are neutral, and have the proper reflectance to be used for setting WB.
Mastrianni

 

[Daniel Lauring]

I wonder if it would be helpful to keep add a little writing strip to the bottom of the gray card and fill in the relevant shot environment information so you more assuredly reference the correct white balance picture at a shoot. I'm thinking of a case where you might have been at a wedding moving between 3 or 4 different situations and need to quickly switch the manual white balance.

Danny

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0879857544/qid%3D/104-1586769-3977555

-John

 

[Cosmic Mah]

It doesn't take much to confuse me right now, since I'm just a beginner. I totally appreciate the help that I'm getting here and I thank all of you. I just need to know some basics...

With this Kodak Gray Card...
Do you use the gray side to manually adjust color balance?
And use the white side to manually adjust exposure?
Or is it the other way around?

I'm assuming the gray side is for color(white) balance.

Thanks

 

[J A K]

Hi,

I was wondering what would be an equivalent gray color to the Kodak
white balance card? Just wondering what else I could use instead of
ordering a simple gray card.

Hi Cosmic:

You may have to search hard for a "Kodak" gray card. I'm sure other posts confirm you should buy the "real thing". If you cannot find one locally, you can order directly from Kodak. Be warned, a lot of places sell low cost replacements; the surface of the cheap guys will have a small level of specular reflections. The paper used by Kodak has a very nice matte finish. In general, the gray side is used for exposure; if the illumination level is high, you certainly can set WB with the gray card. On the back side of the Kodak brand card, the card is white - you may have to use the back side to set WB for some cameras and low levels of illumination.

FWIW - I cut up my Kodak card a bit to fit in my bag. I wrap the card inside of a cut sheet of Epson's HW matte paper. I use the HW matte paper for setting WB, and the gray card for exposure. The matte finish of the Epson paper is superior to the finish on the "white" side of the Kodak card.

Another post mentioned the palm of the hand - this works great for exposure - obviously, not for WB. Sometimes, it is difficult keeping shadows from your camera/body off such a small target. I have always been fasinated by the palm of the hand appraoch - it works regardless of race or religion.

You have received a lot of suggestions. Try them all and stick with what works for you (just make sure the process you settle on is repeatable). BTW - WB correction might get you accurate colors (sort of) - but often it ruins the scene you are looking at. Often, it pays to do a auto WB in conjunction with a manual WB just to compare results. What a thought - WB bracketing!

Joe Kurkjian