Filter Brand Question

[DanteM]

I have been out of Photography for 15 years, so please be patient with my ignorance.

The lenses I am using are as follows:

EF 50 1.4
EF16-35 2.8L
EF 28-70 2.8L
EF 70-200 2.8L IS

I need protective filters for these.

1) Are all UV Protection filters the same or should I only buy expensive brands?

2) Can I use a circular polarizer on the 70-210

--Thanks,

Dante

 

[Tony O'Brien]

I have almost the same lens collection as you (I just haven't bought the 28-70L yet).

With regard to UV protective filters I recommend the following...

• don't skimp on cheap glass on top of expensive L lenses. Consider the filter to be an extra element on your L lenses so try to get the highest quality you can afford

• at a minimum make sure you buy multi-coated filters to minimize internal reflection from the front element of your lens to the inside surface of the filters. Typically the best ones from Hoya and B+W allow 99.5-99.7% light transmission through the filter so less than 0.5% is reflected out. I find this just incredible.

• I used to use Hoya SMC (Super multi-coated) but have recently decided to switch to B+W MRC F-Pro (4mm thin). I switched because the German glass is the highest optical quality around (perhaps overkill for Japanese lenses!), the Hoya are also a little difficult to clean (they tend to smear and stain with some cleaning fluids), I prefer the B+W brass rings to the soft aluminium rings that Hoya use. You can just hear the quality as your screw in the B+W filter and if you plan to attach other filters on top of the B+W UV filter the brass threads will probably stand the test of time.

• every B+W filter is interferometrically tested for plane parallelism. This process is used routinely by the world’s leading lens makers, but only rarely by filter manufacturers. They are cut from a cylinder of Schlott [sic] optical glass (same as is used for German lenses).

• for your 16-35 you probably want a very slim filter and there are a few brands that are also have threads on the front so that you can use your lens cap or add a polarizer. Hoya have a new 3mm double-threaded filter called the 'Super Pro 1' which is the slimmest double-theaded filter you can buy. I use a 'B+W MRC Multicoat' which is 4mm thin and I see no vignetting whatsoever at 16mm but I wouldn't expect to see any an a D60 as it only uses the centre of the lens anyway. However, when digital goes to full-frame (1:1) you may be happy you bought a slim filter.

• B+W are typically about 20% more expensive that the SMC Hoya. Good Multi-coated filters are not cheap: I recently paid $97 for a 77mm B+W UV but I could live with this considering the lens cost almost $2000. If you're the type of person who only buys L lenses then you may share the twisted quest for perfection in your UV filters too.

I buy all my filters from http://www.2filter.com/

They have the best prices, excellent service and fast delivery.

Hope this information helps ... sorry for the long winded reply.

Tony

I have been out of Photography for 15 years, so please be patient
with my ignorance.

The lenses I am using are as follows:

EF 50 1.4
EF16-35 2.8L
EF 28-70 2.8L
EF 70-200 2.8L IS

I need protective filters for these.

1) Are all UV Protection filters the same or should I only buy
expensive brands?

2) Can I use a circular polarizer on the 70-210

--
Thanks,

Dante

 

[Steve R]

With regard to UV protective filters I recommend the following...

• don't skimp on cheap glass on top of expensive L lenses. Consider

the filter to be an extra element on your L lenses so try to get
the highest quality you can afford

• at a minimum make sure you buy multi-coated filters to minimize

internal reflection from the front element of your lens to the
inside surface of the filters. Typically the best ones from Hoya
and B+W allow 99.5-99.7% light transmission through the filter so
less than 0.5% is reflected out. I find this just incredible.

• I used to use Hoya SMC (Super multi-coated) but have recently

decided to switch to B+W MRC F-Pro (4mm thin). I switched because
the German glass is the highest optical quality around (perhaps
overkill for Japanese lenses!), the Hoya are also a little
difficult to clean (they tend to smear and stain with some cleaning
fluids), I prefer the B+W brass rings to the soft aluminium rings
that Hoya use. You can just hear the quality as your screw in the
B+W filter and if you plan to attach other filters on top of the
B+W UV filter the brass threads will probably stand the test of
time.

• every B+W filter is interferometrically tested for plane

parallelism. This process is used routinely by the world’s leading
lens makers, but only rarely by filter manufacturers. They are cut
from a cylinder of Schlott [sic] optical glass (same as is used for
German lenses).

• for your 16-35 you probably want a very slim filter and there are

a few brands that are also have threads on the front so that you
can use your lens cap or add a polarizer. Hoya have a new 3mm
double-threaded filter called the 'Super Pro 1' which is the
slimmest double-theaded filter you can buy. I use a 'B+W MRC
Multicoat' which is 4mm thin and I see no vignetting whatsoever at
16mm but I wouldn't expect to see any an a D60 as it only uses the
centre of the lens anyway. However, when digital goes to full-frame
(1:1) you may be happy you bought a slim filter.

• B+W are typically about 20% more expensive that the SMC Hoya.

Good Multi-coated filters are not cheap: I recently paid $97 for a
77mm B+W UV but I could live with this considering the lens cost
almost $2000. If you're the type of person who only buys L lenses
then you may share the twisted quest for perfection in your UV
filters too.

I buy all my filters from http://www.2filter.com/

They have the best prices, excellent service and fast delivery.

Hope this information helps ... sorry for the long winded reply.

Tony

I have been out of Photography for 15 years, so please be patient
with my ignorance.

The lenses I am using are as follows:

EF 50 1.4
EF16-35 2.8L
EF 28-70 2.8L
EF 70-200 2.8L IS

I need protective filters for these.

1) Are all UV Protection filters the same or should I only buy
expensive brands?

2) Can I use a circular polarizer on the 70-210

--
Thanks,

Dante

Right on the money!!!!
--Steven R

 

[Tony O'Brien]

I forgot to answer your 2nd question...

Yes, you can use a circular polarizar on this lense (if you use linear polarizer most auto-focus systems don't work).

You don't need to worry about the multi-coating as much on a polarizer... because the 70-200mm has a 77mm thread, polarizers get expensive

You could go for

• Hoya HMC Circular Polarizer ( I have this one ... it's fine) ~ $120
• B+W Circular Polarizer [no multi-coated] (if you prefer a brass mount and want the threads to last) ~$120
• B+W Multicoated Circular Polarizer (the king of polarizers but total overkill unless you use polarizers a lot) ~$200

Check the prices on http://www.2filter.com

They also have some good articles about the differences between different brands etc.

Tony

2) Can I use a circular polarizer on the 70-210

 

[DanteM]

Tony,

Thanks for the detail in your response; it is quite valuable to me.

I really appreciate it,

Dante

Yes, you can use a circular polarizar on this lense (if you use
linear polarizer most auto-focus systems don't work).

You don't need to worry about the multi-coating as much on a
polarizer... because the 70-200mm has a 77mm thread, polarizers get
expensive

You could go for

• Hoya HMC Circular Polarizer ( I have this one ... it's fine) ~

$120

• B+W Circular Polarizer [no multi-coated] (if you prefer a brass

mount and want the threads to last) ~$120

• B+W Multicoated Circular Polarizer (the king of polarizers but

total overkill unless you use polarizers a lot) ~$200

Check the prices on http://www.2filter.com

They also have some good articles about the differences between
different brands etc.

Tony

2) Can I use a circular polarizer on the 70-210

--Thanks,Dante

 

[Ed Freedenburg]

Tony,

How about the

Hoya 77 Super HMC Circular Polarizer Pro $123 from 2filter
Hoya 77 Super HMC UV Pro $71.11 from 2filter

Yes, you can use a circular polarizar on this lense (if you use
linear polarizer most auto-focus systems don't work).

You don't need to worry about the multi-coating as much on a
polarizer... because the 70-200mm has a 77mm thread, polarizers get
expensive

You could go for

• Hoya HMC Circular Polarizer ( I have this one ... it's fine) ~

$120

• B+W Circular Polarizer [no multi-coated] (if you prefer a brass

mount and want the threads to last) ~$120

• B+W Multicoated Circular Polarizer (the king of polarizers but

total overkill unless you use polarizers a lot) ~$200

Check the prices on http://www.2filter.com

They also have some good articles about the differences between
different brands etc.

Tony

2) Can I use a circular polarizer on the 70-210

--Ed F.

 

[Tony O'Brien]

I would recommend the Hoya Super HMC Polarizer for sure. I have one. Just be careful cleaning it as if you use cheap lens cleaning fluid you can permanently smear and stain the multi-coating. Use a blower-brush and a clean micro-fibre cloth instead.

For the UV my personal preference is the B+W 77mm MRC Multicoat F-Pro 4 mm. It's worth the extra $25 and it will probably be on your lens forever. Why is is worth the extra few dollar? ... Brass ring, the threads will last longer especially if you plan to thread other filters of top of it, the glass is supposed to be better optical quality (which is important for the filter that stays on your lens always), they have some kind of magical smear resistant coating over their multi-coating layers and my experience has been that the B+W filters is a lot easier to clean.

I would be less fussy about the polarizer than the UV. In the past I have overwhelmed by the cost of an expensive lens and bought a cheap UV filter at the same time just for immediate protection. Then I waste money later by buying a decent UV filter. I have stopped that practice and just fit all my lenses out with the best UV filters I can find (within reason) when I buy them. Of course, if you are buying non-L el-cheapo lenses then you may not want spend your money on these kind of filters (just get a Hoya HMC and you'll be fine).

Hope this helps ...

Tony

Tony,

How about the

Hoya 77 Super HMC Circular Polarizer Pro $123 from 2filter
Hoya 77 Super HMC UV Pro $71.11 from 2filter

 

[Ed Freedenburg]

Tony,

Thanks alot, very good information.

P.S. Just for the heck of it looked at Detas prices for those filters and the Polarizer was $72, UV $32.

For the UV my personal preference is the B+W 77mm MRC Multicoat
F-Pro 4 mm. It's worth the extra $25 and it will probably be on
your lens forever. Why is is worth the extra few dollar? ... Brass
ring, the threads will last longer especially if you plan to thread
other filters of top of it, the glass is supposed to be better
optical quality (which is important for the filter that stays on
your lens always), they have some kind of magical smear resistant
coating over their multi-coating layers and my experience has been
that the B+W filters is a lot easier to clean.

I would be less fussy about the polarizer than the UV. In the past
I have overwhelmed by the cost of an expensive lens and bought a
cheap UV filter at the same time just for immediate protection.
Then I waste money later by buying a decent UV filter. I have
stopped that practice and just fit all my lenses out with the best
UV filters I can find (within reason) when I buy them. Of course,
if you are buying non-L el-cheapo lenses then you may not want
spend your money on these kind of filters (just get a Hoya HMC and
you'll be fine).

Hope this helps ...

Tony

Tony,

How about the

Hoya 77 Super HMC Circular Polarizer Pro $123 from 2filter
Hoya 77 Super HMC UV Pro $71.11 from 2filter

--Ed F.

 

[Tony O'Brien]

Thanks for the tip - maybe I'll use Delta next time if they are cheaper. 2filter have free shipping on orders over $50 - that helps a little.

Tony

P.S. Just for the heck of it looked at Detas prices for those
filters and the Polarizer was $72, UV $32.

 

[John Davis]

Tony:

One school of thought is that if you are careful with your lenses (use covers when not shooting) you should do without UV/sky filters as these always degrade the optical path.

I would be interested in your comments.

John

P.S. - What do you think of the Hoya's HMCs UVs? Are those distortion free?

With regard to UV protective filters I recommend the following...

• don't skimp on cheap glass on top of expensive L lenses. Consider

the filter to be an extra element on your L lenses so try to get
the highest quality you can afford

• at a minimum make sure you buy multi-coated filters to minimize

internal reflection from the front element of your lens to the
inside surface of the filters. Typically the best ones from Hoya
and B+W allow 99.5-99.7% light transmission through the filter so
less than 0.5% is reflected out. I find this just incredible.

• I used to use Hoya SMC (Super multi-coated) but have recently

decided to switch to B+W MRC F-Pro (4mm thin). I switched because
the German glass is the highest optical quality around (perhaps
overkill for Japanese lenses!), the Hoya are also a little
difficult to clean (they tend to smear and stain with some cleaning
fluids), I prefer the B+W brass rings to the soft aluminium rings
that Hoya use. You can just hear the quality as your screw in the
B+W filter and if you plan to attach other filters on top of the
B+W UV filter the brass threads will probably stand the test of
time.

• every B+W filter is interferometrically tested for plane

parallelism. This process is used routinely by the world’s leading
lens makers, but only rarely by filter manufacturers. They are cut
from a cylinder of Schlott [sic] optical glass (same as is used for
German lenses).

• for your 16-35 you probably want a very slim filter and there are

a few brands that are also have threads on the front so that you
can use your lens cap or add a polarizer. Hoya have a new 3mm
double-threaded filter called the 'Super Pro 1' which is the
slimmest double-theaded filter you can buy. I use a 'B+W MRC
Multicoat' which is 4mm thin and I see no vignetting whatsoever at
16mm but I wouldn't expect to see any an a D60 as it only uses the
centre of the lens anyway. However, when digital goes to full-frame
(1:1) you may be happy you bought a slim filter.

• B+W are typically about 20% more expensive that the SMC Hoya.

Good Multi-coated filters are not cheap: I recently paid $97 for a
77mm B+W UV but I could live with this considering the lens cost
almost $2000. If you're the type of person who only buys L lenses
then you may share the twisted quest for perfection in your UV
filters too.

I buy all my filters from http://www.2filter.com/

They have the best prices, excellent service and fast delivery.

Hope this information helps ... sorry for the long winded reply.

Tony

I have been out of Photography for 15 years, so please be patient
with my ignorance.

The lenses I am using are as follows:

EF 50 1.4
EF16-35 2.8L
EF 28-70 2.8L
EF 70-200 2.8L IS

I need protective filters for these.

1) Are all UV Protection filters the same or should I only buy
expensive brands?

2) Can I use a circular polarizer on the 70-210

--
Thanks,

Dante

 

[Tony O'Brien]

One school of thought is that if you are careful with your lenses
(use covers when not shooting) you should do without UV/sky filters
as these always degrade the optical path.

I would be interested in your comments.

Oh dear... I hope I'm not coming across as an expert in this area or something because I'm very far from that. I have heard this theory and don't dispute it. I would love to not have any UV filters on my lenses but I would hate to scratch, mark, or wear away the multicoating on the front element of a very expensive lens as it is much more costly to replace an element than buy a new filter.

I have yet to see a good example of where a top quality UV filter seriously affects a picture. There was a thread on this topic last week but it was just scaremongering based on very unscientific tests as far as I could tell.

P.S. - What do you think of the Hoya's HMCs UVs? Are those
distortion free?

The HMC are very good filters indeed - the Super HMC have better multi-coating so will reduce the possibility of any internal reflections/flare etc even more.

Don't ever go near a cheap 'Green' label Hoya filter as this is made out of the same green glass as the windows in your house! Hoya have a wide range of filters from total rubbish to very good. All the B+W filters are good - they have never used green glass, ever...

I think I am beginning to sound biased now so I'll stop. I actually don't feel this strongly about the topic but seem to have worked myself up on the virtues of B+W. Strange...

Night night!

Tony

 

[John Davis]

Tony:

Thanks for your comments. All my lenses have filters. The reason I asked, is that I keep hearing people saying otherwise, but I have my reservations.

I posted this question in the Pro forum and most people agree with you

John

One school of thought is that if you are careful with your lenses
(use covers when not shooting) you should do without UV/sky filters
as these always degrade the optical path.

I would be interested in your comments.

Oh dear... I hope I'm not coming across as an expert in this area
or something because I'm very far from that. I have heard this
theory and don't dispute it. I would love to not have any UV
filters on my lenses but I would hate to scratch, mark, or wear
away the multicoating on the front element of a very expensive lens
as it is much more costly to replace an element than buy a new
filter.

I have yet to see a good example of where a top quality UV filter
seriously affects a picture. There was a thread on this topic last
week but it was just scaremongering based on very unscientific
tests as far as I could tell.

P.S. - What do you think of the Hoya's HMCs UVs? Are those
distortion free?

The HMC are very good filters indeed - the Super HMC have better
multi-coating so will reduce the possibility of any internal
reflections/flare etc even more.

Don't ever go near a cheap 'Green' label Hoya filter as this is
made out of the same green glass as the windows in your house! Hoya
have a wide range of filters from total rubbish to very good. All
the B+W filters are good - they have never used green glass, ever...

I think I am beginning to sound biased now so I'll stop. I actually
don't feel this strongly about the topic but seem to have worked
myself up on the virtues of B+W. Strange...

Night night!

Tony

 

[DanteM]

How do I contact Delta?

Thanks alot, very good information.

P.S. Just for the heck of it looked at Detas prices for those
filters and the Polarizer was $72, UV $32.

For the UV my personal preference is the B+W 77mm MRC Multicoat
F-Pro 4 mm. It's worth the extra $25 and it will probably be on
your lens forever. Why is is worth the extra few dollar? ... Brass
ring, the threads will last longer especially if you plan to thread
other filters of top of it, the glass is supposed to be better
optical quality (which is important for the filter that stays on
your lens always), they have some kind of magical smear resistant
coating over their multi-coating layers and my experience has been
that the B+W filters is a lot easier to clean.

I would be less fussy about the polarizer than the UV. In the past
I have overwhelmed by the cost of an expensive lens and bought a
cheap UV filter at the same time just for immediate protection.
Then I waste money later by buying a decent UV filter. I have
stopped that practice and just fit all my lenses out with the best
UV filters I can find (within reason) when I buy them. Of course,
if you are buying non-L el-cheapo lenses then you may not want
spend your money on these kind of filters (just get a Hoya HMC and
you'll be fine).

Hope this helps ...

Tony

Tony,

How about the

Hoya 77 Super HMC Circular Polarizer Pro $123 from 2filter
Hoya 77 Super HMC UV Pro $71.11 from 2filter

--
Ed F.

--Thanks,Dante

 

[Tom.R]

I'm not a pro, but a lot of them work all the time with a hood, wich protects the lens pretty well, without degrading the image in any way. I've started working like this myself.

Tom R.

 

[Janne I. Turunen]

I would be less fussy about the polarizer than the UV. In the past
I have overwhelmed by the cost of an expensive lens and bought a
cheap UV filter at the same time just for immediate protection.
Then I waste money later by buying a decent UV filter. I have
stopped that practice and just fit all my lenses out with the best
UV filters I can find (within reason) when I buy them. Of course,
if you are buying non-L el-cheapo lenses then you may not want
spend your money on these kind of filters (just get a Hoya HMC and
you'll be fine).

I agree. I have Hoya Pro1 and B+W UVs for the protection, but am still completely happy with my "cheapo" Kenko CirPol. I recommend Kenko, it's very good value for money (Kenko is the parent company of Hoya and Tokina, and they use the brand in some countries).

+janne

 

[whitt]

I'm not a pro, but a lot of them work all the time with a hood,
wich protects the lens pretty well

I have been told that as well. (that is, "use the hood")

I was using a 70-200 (sans hood) and someone walked up to me, and began peppering me with questions that I could not answer (film types, other than daylight, other things that I don't even remember). Then he says...

"why aren't you using a hood?"

me.." um, er, it looks too ostentatious?..."

him: "...you are trying to gain every incremental advantage that you can. this is all about very small gains, to make the best picture. use the hood..."

me..."um, er, ok..."

him:"...is that a 300mm prime hanging from that strap?"

me..."yes"

him:"...why aren't you using it?"

me:"...I'm too close..."

him: (incredulously)..."move somewhere else!"

me: "um, OK."

as you well know, he was right. The next three events, I used the 300mm, w/the hood, almost exclusively. I liked the results.

whitt

 

[Ed Freedenburg]

http://www.deltainternational.com

Thanks alot, very good information.

P.S. Just for the heck of it looked at Detas prices for those
filters and the Polarizer was $72, UV $32.

For the UV my personal preference is the B+W 77mm MRC Multicoat
F-Pro 4 mm. It's worth the extra $25 and it will probably be on
your lens forever. Why is is worth the extra few dollar? ... Brass
ring, the threads will last longer especially if you plan to thread
other filters of top of it, the glass is supposed to be better
optical quality (which is important for the filter that stays on
your lens always), they have some kind of magical smear resistant
coating over their multi-coating layers and my experience has been
that the B+W filters is a lot easier to clean.

I would be less fussy about the polarizer than the UV. In the past
I have overwhelmed by the cost of an expensive lens and bought a
cheap UV filter at the same time just for immediate protection.
Then I waste money later by buying a decent UV filter. I have
stopped that practice and just fit all my lenses out with the best
UV filters I can find (within reason) when I buy them. Of course,
if you are buying non-L el-cheapo lenses then you may not want
spend your money on these kind of filters (just get a Hoya HMC and
you'll be fine).

Hope this helps ...

Tony

Tony,

How about the

Hoya 77 Super HMC Circular Polarizer Pro $123 from 2filter
Hoya 77 Super HMC UV Pro $71.11 from 2filter

--
Ed F.

--
Thanks,

Dante

--Ed F.

 

[RolandKorg]

Great post, Tony.

Thanks,

rk

 

[DanteM]

Thanks.

Thanks alot, very good information.

P.S. Just for the heck of it looked at Detas prices for those
filters and the Polarizer was $72, UV $32.

For the UV my personal preference is the B+W 77mm MRC Multicoat
F-Pro 4 mm. It's worth the extra $25 and it will probably be on
your lens forever. Why is is worth the extra few dollar? ... Brass
ring, the threads will last longer especially if you plan to thread
other filters of top of it, the glass is supposed to be better
optical quality (which is important for the filter that stays on
your lens always), they have some kind of magical smear resistant
coating over their multi-coating layers and my experience has been
that the B+W filters is a lot easier to clean.

I would be less fussy about the polarizer than the UV. In the past
I have overwhelmed by the cost of an expensive lens and bought a
cheap UV filter at the same time just for immediate protection.
Then I waste money later by buying a decent UV filter. I have
stopped that practice and just fit all my lenses out with the best
UV filters I can find (within reason) when I buy them. Of course,
if you are buying non-L el-cheapo lenses then you may not want
spend your money on these kind of filters (just get a Hoya HMC and
you'll be fine).

Hope this helps ...

Tony

Tony,

How about the

Hoya 77 Super HMC Circular Polarizer Pro $123 from 2filter
Hoya 77 Super HMC UV Pro $71.11 from 2filter

--
Ed F.

--
Thanks,

Dante

--
Ed F.

--Thanks,Dante

 

[Lee Rothman]

Hoya Super HMC Pro 1 filters offer the "thinnest" glass on the market (1mm thick) and therefore are the most "optically transparent" as well. They offer 6 UV coatings and 1 anti scratch coating PER SIDE. The most again in the industry. B&W use Schott glass to make their filters. While this is optically wonderful glass it is no more effective optically than the Hoya's, as well as having 4 coatings and 5th PER SIDE that is a non scratch coating. B&H also uses a heavier brass ring instead of the lighter aluminum ring that Hoya uses. I personally have used both and while I DO find the Hoya superior at avoiding flare, I find the B&W's much easier to clean. You really need to either avoid fluids or use the MC Solution or Eclipse Fluid for cleaning the Hoya's. The B&W's aren't so fussy, but sure are a LOT more money as well. In your case I guess I would recommend the Hoya Super HMC PRO 1 UV 0 filters. Check out Delta International. They have the best prices and stock on the Hoya's at this time.....