Now, can we compare the SD 800 IS and the SD 900?

Someone just wrote that the IS isn't
really that important or necessary in a small camera, is that
really true.
Exactly the opposite is true. Mass damps out vibrations. These little cameras are so light they feel every heartbeat. And because they are often held at arms-length instead of in proper shooting position, they need it even more. Finally, they have slow lenses and slow sensors which cause lower shutter speeds.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)
 
why f2.8 thats pretty good.
f4.9 and f5.8 (the long ends of the focal length range) aren't very good.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)
 
And that has got to be worth a price premium. Just look at steel and titanium versions of the same watch and you'll see a pretty big price diff as well. The extra 3mp also adds to the perception that you're getting your money's worth, especially since 10mp sensors are the latest and greatest while 7mp ones have been around for quite a while already.

Their pricing strategy seems perfectly sensible to me.

--
Visit my photoblog @ http://denosha.shutterchance.com
 
I assume we're talking about shots without flash?

The thing is most P&S users use these cameras in Auto-mode, and the camera never lets the shutter speed get below 1/60s. If there's not enough light the cameras switches to flash and 1/60s. And using the flash is not a big deal to the average P&S user - so the average user will almost never see any hand-shake.

With my 350D and no flash, I get constant hand-shake problems because I'm always pushing the shutter speed limit to get a shot without flash. But with my P&S in the pub taking flash pics I can't remember EVER having a problem with shake. (Occasionally out of focus in bad light, but even that's rare).

Is it only now because some serious users are using these cameras as SLR replacements that this IS is such an issue? I would say unless you're turning off the flash and purposely pushing the shutter speed below 1/40s, then IS is a non-issue in a P&S.

I'd rather have the larger 1/1.8 sensor and cleaner pics. Or am I missing something here?

Cheers.
 
Well, yes... you're missing the opportunity to take your pub pix
without flash...
And the ability to take pictures of larger things, or things farther away, than the tiny flash will illuminate.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)
 
One of the things I wonder about (and don't understand) is the SD
800 talks about using Canon's UA lens technology.

The 900 makes no mention of it.

I've seen some say the UA lens technology creates "softer" pictures.

Any knowledge and thoughts here?
Isn't UA the cr*p they've been using on the sd300, sd400, sd630, whatever they call them? A sorry excuse for glass? I think maybe they can make smaller lenses out of it than they can with glass. I don't know though
 
I'm still happy with my s400 but I know it's going to break soon because it's been taken apart twice (by me) and sometimes it freezes up, doesn't focus at all, etc. But, it still works 98% of the time and I can replace it with a used one for about $80, but I still have a backup plan!

COMPARISONS:

Since I'd be moving from 4 MP on a 1/1.8" CCD (appx 300 pixels/mm) up to either the SD800 or SD900 with 500+ pixels/mm, and since I'm not going to want the camera to kick into "soften-the-image-to-hide-noise mode," I think I'm going to want IS.

My s400 can take shots in dim light with the flash off that the SD500, SD700, SD900, etc, just will not be able to take at the lowest ISO (they need more light for the tiny pixels). So, if I had one of these cameras, I'd have to bump up the ISO--therefore either having noise or having the noise-smoothing mode turned on.

But, the IS, on the other hand, might be more able to take these same pictures at low ISO, handheld, with the IS turned on. I LOVE taking shots with the flash off and nowadays with 500 pixels/mm on the chip, it's pretty necessary. These cameras need slow shutter speeds to work.

The safety zoom feature is pretty interesting to me. Since I take smaller image sizes (3 MP often) I could use the safety zoom as way to save hard drive space and RAM while editing. I don't like large file sizes! But, both cameras have this cool feature though.

Another complaint about both cameras is the button layout: at least the SD800 has both of the buttons in the same place, but they're so hard to push way down there! Doing that one-handed is just asking for the thing to be dropped!--unless if you're able to push them with the joint area of your thumb. The SD900 gives you one button at the top, but it's way off to the edge, again helping a one-handed user drop his new purchase. And, the other button on the SD900 is way at the bottom, a good inch away from the display button! The only button in a useful position is the "screw-you-Kodak" transfer button, which they could put on the bottom of the camera for all I care! Finally, though, the back of the SD900 looks like the back of the SD200: cheap; with round, hard to push buttons that hurt your fingers. The cheaper SD800 looks a bit nicer and flatter. This is all speculation just from the pictures though so we'll wait and see.

QUESTION: I do like the titanium, and I'm interested in if it's harder to scratch than the steel. Anyone know this? I'm not worried about strength (Why would I be? I won't be standing on it!) but I don't like the camera scratched, at all! If so, this is a plus for the SD900. ALSO, is the SD800 coated with the ceramic stuff that is meant not to scratch but actually wears off and leaves you with sa cratched up looking camera anyway? I don't like this coating, as evidence by the looks of my S400. I like the plain steel of my sd20, though. You can't wear the steel down because there is nothing under it, just more steel. If the SD800 had this Cele-whatever they call it coating, that'd be reason for me right there not to get it. It'd be worn off after taking it in and out of the case a few 1000 times.

A plus for the SD800 is weight. It's a bit lighter and I know 15 grams isn't much, I was able to feel it from going from 118 gram cell phone to a 135 gram one.

Finally, it looks like the main differences come from things that I don't have already, and these features are all on the SD800, not the SD900:

28 mm wide lens: I can REALLY notice the difference between the 36 mm on my SD400 and the 39 mm on my SD20. 28 mm would be so cool and I woudn't be losing much because I'd have the longer zoom accompanied by IS to keep it from blurring.

IS: I have never had it, but would love to take sneak pictures in dark places that turn out decent, and full zoom pictures in anything less than daylight without blurring.

Size: My SD400 is about 40 grams heavier than the SD800, the SD900 is right in between them. The SD800 does seems considerably smaller

3 mm Macro: I love the closeups. I get 3 mm on my SD20, but that camera isn't my day trip camera.


So, my questions are these:

What's the teleconverter on the SD900? Does the SD800 have the ceramic coating?
Is titanium harder to scratch than steel?
 
My s400 can take shots in dim light with the flash off that the
SD500, SD700, SD900, etc, just will not be able to take at the
lowest ISO (they need more light for the tiny pixels).
At the same ISO and f-stop, the exposures will be the same. The question is will the signal (detail) to noise ratio be the same, higher or lower than your older camera.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)
 
The question is will the signal (detail) to noise ratio be the same,
higher or lower than your older camera.
Yeah, that's what it all boils down to, basically. I already know the answer pixel per pixel but with IS and almost twice the MPs (which I can downsize and trick myself into thinking it's just as good) maybe I can be happy.
At the same ISO and f-stop, the exposures will be the same.
You probably know more about it than me, but all I can say is that I took several pictures, side by side, even some with the S400 in one hand and the SD500 in the other, and most of the time the S400 had a faster shutter speed. I know the lenses are different and could be cause for it so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but regardless of the reason, that S400 can take pics the SD500 couldn't before the handshake sign came on.

So, from my perspective, going from the S400 to the SD900 would be a step back in low-light reliability. I don't know if I'd be using the higher ISOs too often. The SD800 on the other hand, and leaves gives me IS to work with.
 
You probably know more about it than me, but all I can say is that
I took several pictures, side by side, even some with the S400 in
one hand and the SD500 in the other, and most of the time the S400
had a faster shutter speed.
They have the same lens speed so it's either a difference in metering or a difference in ISO calibration.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)
 
Isn't UA the cr*p they've been using on the sd300, sd400, sd630, whatever they call them? A sorry excuse for glass? I think maybe they can make smaller lenses out of it than they can with glass. I don't know though
Canon says the following ("glass-molded" once, not sure what that might mean, but "glass" cleary also)... this from their S60 page... definitely seems to be intended to reduce size... this from their S60 page:
The UA Lens (Ultra High Refractive Index Aspherical Lens) is a Canon exclusive: a glass-molded Aspherical lens with an ultra high refractive index that delivers bright, clear shots. This special glass allows a compactness unusual in a wide-angle lens, contributing to (an) impressively slim profile.
 
Well, yes... you're missing the opportunity to take your pub pix without flash...
Well yes and no... I mean for pub type pix it almost always involves moving people as the subject, so you can't really get down below 1/40s anyway. Sure you'll avoid hand-shake blur, but your moving subject will be blurred anyway.

I appreciate what IS can do, and it's nice to have, I just mean for the average P&S person I don't think it would apply in 99% of their shots.

For the more advanced user it's a different story, but I just wonder what percentage of P&S users would fall into that category.

Cheers.
 

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