A SLR with a big sensor?

[nille1234]

Hi!

I have an Olympus c7070 right now, but I'm not happy with the fact that I'm not able to get a nice and shallow DOF with that camera.

Can anyone recommend a reasonably priced SLR with a big sensor that will let me control the DOF a lot better?

Nille

 

[Bill_Turner]

There's an awful lot of information out there regarding your question.

I'd suggest that you post this question on the DPReview Pro DSLR Forum and, perhaps, get a reasonable response.

--
Regards,
(afka Wile E. Coyote)
Bill
PSAA
Equipment in profile.
Eschew obfuscation.
The frumious Bandersnatch

 

[Barry Stewart]

If it's only a problem when on the long end of the zoom, it could be because your f-stops are automatically tightening because of the variable aperture (most zoom lenses have this, some worse than others.)

Though I haven't tried them, there are software filters that can blur the background.

In Oly 4/3, you may need to get the fastest of the lenses f-2ish to give your DOF blur. Otherwise, the Canon 5D would be cheapest full-frame DSLR — at about $3,000 USD.
--
Barry

Equipment in profile.

 

[jscott]

Hi!

I have an Olympus c7070 right now, but I'm not happy with the fact
that I'm not able to get a nice and shallow DOF with that camera.
Can anyone recommend a reasonably priced SLR with a big sensor that
will let me control the DOF a lot better?

Here are a couple:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=437387&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=354004&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

Regards,
Scott

--
As we celebrate mediocrity all the boys upstairs want to see
How much you'll pay for what you used to get for free

• Tom Petty

 

[Jono Slack]

Hi Nille
I read your message on the Olympus talk forum

If your main aim is a limited depth of field, then you need to go to medium format - or at least full frame.

On the other hand, you can easily have a sharp eye and a blurry nose with a 4/3 camera.

DOF 'control' is a heavily loaded phrase, and rather contradicts your innocent approach here. Some might thing that depth of field control means being able to get as much of a landscape sharp as possible, but conventionally speaking it is used to bash digital cameras with small sensors. I don't really believe that you just made it up for yourself.

My personal feeling is that 4/3 gives you the perfect compromise - large dof is possible for macros and wide angle landscapes, but with the faster lenses it's possible to limit the DOF quite easily

does this help?

kind regards

Hi!

I have an Olympus c7070 right now, but I'm not happy with the fact
that I'm not able to get a nice and shallow DOF with that camera.
Can anyone recommend a reasonably priced SLR with a big sensor that
will let me control the DOF a lot better?

Nille

--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk

 

[nille1234]

Thanks a lot for all your help. This is a lot more complicated than I thought it would be, but at least I know a bit more now.

Nille

 

[musicc]

More then enough camera and DOF for you.

 

[LJSmak]

Thanks a lot for all your help. This is a lot more complicated than
I thought it would be, but at least I know a bit more now.

You haven't told what you want to be doing, but if it's something like this:



Any Olympus will do fine. NB: I wasn't even trying very hard here.... image taken with E1 + 50-200 at about 150mm f/4 I think. (certainly NOT wide open.)

I have shot 6x6 for many years and still own an extensive Rolleiflex outfit, and I also own a Nikkor 85mm 1.4, so I am well aware of shallow DoF options. Personally I think all the DoF-whining that is going on on the dpreview forums is pathetic. A nice blur in parts of the picture is just as much a question of the right viewpoint and background, as of sensor-size or lens speed. Also, overdoing it usually doesn't look nice. (like a portrait with a sharp eye and a blurry one...most of those just don't look good.)

;-)
Lourens

 

[johno135056]

That's a bit of a provocative question in the context. It depends somewhat on what you mean by a "big" sensor. All of the current DSLRs have "big" sensors in comparison to the digicams, but you start to pay big $$$ if you want to go larger than the 4/3 and APS size sensors which appear in the cheaper DSLRs.

Sensor size isn't all there is to it either. There's also the aperture of the lens. So for example, the c8080 or c5050 in the olympus compacts will also allow significatly more shallow DOF on account of having better lenses than the c7070.

All of the current Olympus DSLRs use 4/3 sensors, which are the smallest of the current set of DSLRs. They are a bit smaller than the APS of the competitors, and half linear dimensions of the full-frame ones. But on the other side of the coin, the smaller sensor size allows construction of wider-aperture ratio lenses, which then allows shallower DOF - taking things back about the same.

I think the natural direction for you to go in is the Olympus E-500. It uses the same battery and memory cards as the c7070, and is cheap for what it is. The kit lenses will give you a shallower DOF than the c7070, but if you want to go further, you'd be looking at the 14-54mm lens or 50mm prime.

Having said that, just about all of the entry-level SLRs are about the same in terms of that DOF issue - so it depends on what other features you are looking for . Then, as already mentioned, the shallow DOF can also be simulated in software, and that can give you more control over the process.

Hi!

I have an Olympus c7070 right now, but I'm not happy with the fact
that I'm not able to get a nice and shallow DOF with that camera.
Can anyone recommend a reasonably priced SLR with a big sensor that
will let me control the DOF a lot better?

Nille

 

[Higuma]

Most of the time it is up to you and your skill set behind the camera as opposed to what you can buy...

Lourens is quite right - that a 4/3 camera has a lot of capability to control DOF...

Sometimes less...







Sometimes more...







Cheers...

 

[digital ed]

From the DOF calculator: http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

Assume:
Focal Length = 20mm actual
Aperture = f/5.6
Distance = 5 feet

C7070 DOF = 1.3 feet
E-1 DOF = 3.55 feet
E-300 DOF = 3.55 feet
35mm Film DOF = 10.8 feet
Canon 20D DOF = 4.83 feet
Canon 1Ds Mark II DOF = 10.8 feet
Nikon D200 DOF = 5.19 feet

Ed

Hi!

I have an Olympus c7070 right now, but I'm not happy with the fact
that I'm not able to get a nice and shallow DOF with that camera.
Can anyone recommend a reasonably priced SLR with a big sensor that
will let me control the DOF a lot better?

Nille

 

[Guy Parsons]

To correct that chart to give the same field of view for the cameras, the three I reworked turn out like this......

C-7070 20mm actual fl @ f/5.6 @ 5 feet DOF = 1.3 feet

E-1/300 41mm actual fl @ f/5.6 @ 5 feet DOF = 0.75 feet

35mm film 80mm actual fl @ f/5.6 @ 5 feet DOF = 0.38 feet
(didn't have 82mm in their chart so used 80mm)

The APS sized sensors will fall in there somewhere but I'll leave that to someone else.

So for same field of view at same focus distance the depth of field does shrink with sensor size getting bigger.

Regards............. Guy

 

[dave gaines]

Nillie,

Depth of Field is affected by several factors that you can control with the C-7070: aperture size, focal length and distance. A smaller f-stop number or wider aperture gives less DOF. A longer focal length or zoom telephoto gives less DOF. A closer distance shortens DOF too.

To get a short depth of field try these techniques. Set the mode to Aperture priority, A mode. Lower the f-stop number to the smallest number (bigest aperture opening) for the zoom setting. Check the shutter speed and shoot at your smallest f-stop.

At 27 mm wde angle that's f/2.8. At 110 mm telephoto the smallest aperture is f/4.8. Either zoom will yield similar results because as you zoom in (longer focal length) DOF decreases. As you zoom in the aperture may not change (think of the iris opening size) but the f-stop number is getting larger - f-stop number is just the ratio of aperture to focal length.

Also move as close to your subject as you can to get the composition you're looking for. Set the zoom to fit the frame you want from your closest point. At close distances DOF decreases, giving you the blurred background you're after.

For a human face you want to zoom in to the 50 mm range or higher to avoid distortion. With the C-7070 that's just about 2x zoom or near 1/4 of the zoom scale or higher.

So set the aperture to the smallest setting, move in close and zoom in as far as you can. These 3 factors will reduce DOF.

The C-5050 achieves shorter DOF with a wider f-stop, f/1.8. The C-8080 has a larger sensor but achieves short DOF with a smaller f-stop, f/2.4 or a longer zoom, up to 140 mm.
The DOF calculator linked in one of the posts above
http://www.dofmaster.com

will give you a DOF calculator you can use to create a chart of DOF. You can create the chart to show DOF for any given f-stop, distance and focal length. You can print it out and use the chart to predict where you'll get short DOF, or conversely, how you can capture the entire scenic landscape with long DOF, which is what the C-7070 is so good at.

Ed posted a DOF comparison above. That suggests the only way you'll get shorter DOF with a DSLR is with a big aperture lens or long zoom lens. That is, a lens with an f/1.4, f/2 or f/2.8 or a telephoto over 150 or 200 mm. An f/2.8 is back near the C-7070 again. You can add the teleconverter lenses to the C-7070 and get a longer zoom; theTCON 17C or the TCON 30C I think they're called, to get either 187 mm or 330 mm.
Dave
--
UW Photographer w/ C-8080

 

[nille1234]

Thanks a lot for all your help. I've understood now that getting the right DOF is quite complicated and isn't just a matter of having a "big" sensor.

I might buy the teleconvertor to be able to zoom in and get a shallow DOF that way. Although I think it is a bit expensive.

Thanks again

Nille

 

[dochog]

The one with the feathers is alright too!
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dochog7/

 

[EMale]

Here you can see what you have to do get to narrow or large DOF! You don't need new kit.. you just need to know how to use what you have.

So if we look at the table: If I wanted narrow DOF, I'd put my lens towards the tele end, open the aperture as much as poss (f2,f2.8 or f3.5)and get as near as I could.

Conversely, if I wanted max DOF, I'd use the wide end at a narrow aperture (high f no. f8-f11) and create as much distance between the camera and the scene/subject.

While the above may be technically correct, you don't need to create distance when using a WA @ f11 when imaging a scene! And closing the distance when using the tele end maybe only something you'd use for artitic effect. BUT it's as well to know the basics.

I've been looking for a table like this for ages... it's from a Samsung 'pentax' dSLR. And please, if there's errors, someone correct me.

--

 

[jjholmes]

Bill,
Once again doing your best to give the uninitiated a good hazing. ;-)
--
Jeff
http://jeff.zenfolio.com/

 

[dave gaines]

"You can add the teleconverter lenses to the C-7070 and get a longer zoom; theTCON 17C or the TCON 30C I think they're called, to get either 187 mm or 330 mm."
Here's the TCON 17C for $65. With the adapter ring it's $92.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=800418046&is=USE&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation
I saw the TCON 30C for $109 last month.
I see you got some good ideas on post processing from OTF too.

Yep, DSLR with big aperture would give you short DOF, but for more cost than the C-7070.
Dave
--
UW Photographer w/ C-8080

 

[BJL]

How much bigger do you want and how much are you willing to pay?

Compared to the c700's roughly 5x7mm sensor, all DSLR sensors are far bigger: from 6 times greater area for Olympus DSLR's starting at about US$550, to 48x greater area in high end medium format systems for about US$30,000.

Note also that lens minimum f-stop affects DOF: an Olympus DSLR with f/2.8-3.5 lens gives less DOF wide open than a f/4-5.6 lens on an APS-C format DSLR.

 

[Day Hiker]

Great photo Higuma. Perhaps the 11-22mm Zuiko?

Most of the time it is up to you and your skill set behind the
camera as opposed to what you can buy...

--
Cheers,

Jim Pilcher
Colorado, USA

I don't make stupid mistakes. My mistakes are always very clever.