ist DS2 named #8 worst product of 2006 by PC Magazine

[RomeoKC10]

This was pretty interesting, they were pretty harsh in their criticism, also read the replys to the review, there's only seven but they came out swinging.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1930734,00.asp

 

[Aleksander Kozak]

Hi

I agree with answers. The worst thing is that Pentax's default settings create much worse (in jpeg) pictures than RAW ones and probably all reviews are based on bright,jpeg test. BTW, Pentax itself is guilty of it! They should change it in DS2 to natural and improve jpeg quality. All in all RAWs are great. I have just written to this magazine:
"Dear Sirs,
I have read your comments on Pentax DS2 and am shocked by your reviews!

You said that it was so-so. Do not forget it has more useful features than D50, is compatible with plenty of Pentax great manual lenses and what is the most important you probably did tests using default setting. In order to compare DS2 with the rest , you should use RAW and Natural mode, not bright as it is default and not great, it is a mode for snapshoots. I know people who use both say Pentax is bettre and look at view finder of Nikon D50, just horrible in comparison with Ds2.

So your review is completely bad and stupid. As I said bright mode is MUCH worse so comparison with Nikon is not fair and bright mode generates more noise.

If you want to see what DS2 is capable of take DA 40mm/2.8 lens and shoot RAW, natural mode and ASA 200 you will see what I am writing about.
Upset reader,
Aleksander Kozak"

Alek

 

[alexander L]

Quite interesting, I think the critiscism is right when DS is considered a beginner´s or entry level camera (which Pentax claims). Beginners are not supposed to tweak, use RAW,change lenses and and post-process, which, we-experienced users- know is the way to get good and even perfect pictures from this camera. My DS broke down some time ago and I had to revert to my old(1999) 3mp sony p&s ,this reminded me how much better p&s right-from-camera pictures are than unprocessed or dumb mode pics from Pentax DS. I do not know about Nikon, Canaon or Olympus DSLR´s and do not care, but it may well be that they fare better in the hands of dumb shooters and testers.

 

[Franka T.L.]

While experienced and dedicated user know and can utlize RAW. this is not probably the nominal customer base where the DS2 aiming for. Also Pentax wait for far too ,ong before making this model availiable to other market ( other than Japan that is ). The so-so result right from the camera JPEG is exactly what it is when reviewing it against competetions like the Oly E-500 or Canon EOS-350D. While I do think the DS2's capability is not that bad, truth is for majority of its intended market, customers will be using AUTO WB + in camera JPEG. Let's just say Pentax is lagging behind others in this respect.

Not to mention the price of the DS2 is not exactly exciting either.

No the DS2 is not too bad a camera, but the competetions prove a tag better still ... I think the Pentax engineer would do well to learn something from Minolta, just look at the way the 7D allowing people to set their JPEG conversion to their liking .... and not to mention the far better ergonomics too !! I think its fair time Pentax recognize their own shortcoming in the area of imaging software/firmware and get working on it real stright .... Otherwise, no matter how good thier next DSLR might be, if its proving yet another case of requiring too much work from the user, its not going to meet the need and expectation of its intended mass market ..

--
Franka

 

[Rupert60]

The article is probably right in what it says but as mentioned, that is only part of the story. I think that there is a concerted effort to downgrade Pentax on the part of reviewers and camera retailers everywhere. When I go to Wolfe Photo for prints, or equipment, I always see misinformation being spread about Pentax but C and N are always portrayed as perfect in every aspect. So, nothing new here......
--
'This is not that serious.....let's all have fun.'

 

[George Sears]

The latest edition of the magazine is completely revamped. They put cars on the cover, and review cars inside every issue now. They moved Dvorak's column to the back page, like he is an elder statesman, or something.

What good is a one page review based on 'image quality', when you don't break it down, look at raw, study different ISO settings, and thoroughly explore the camera? It's fine for a $250 point and shoot, maybe.

I've read the magazine for a long time, but I really feel it is almost without value, anymore. If I need to know about almost anything tech, I Google it, and find information. Then, 2 weeks later, maybe there is something in the magazine.

Dell was selling a PC for $400 with a 19 inch LCD. What's a PC, anymore? Not much. So what's the point of the magazine? Gamer reviews? Lame reviews across the spectrum of technology? They can try, but I doubt they succeed.

Why think, just read the sign...



George Sears

http://www.pbase.com/gsears3025/moab0406dl

 

[ennacac]

Its a PC magazine for heavens sake!

Who cares what they say about a camera since even their PC reviews are fairly worthless and they supposedly know something about them. If you find their opinion important, then possibly you should check what the people at the local Best Buy think, since they actually sell cameras, although not Pentax DSLR's.

Tom
--



'The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits.'

• Albert Einstein

 

[Anastigmat]

This was pretty interesting, they were pretty harsh in their
criticism, also read the replys to the review, there's only seven
but they came out swinging.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1930734,00.asp

I am puzzled by the claim of underexposure, since they do not have the same problem with the DL in this regard. They rated the DL much higher than the DS2, even though both are basically the same camera. Could be they set something incorrectly in the DS2 or it could be they got a bad sample. If they praised the DL but bashed the DS2, it shows that the camera itself is not at fault.

 

[Godfrey]

I would hardly find PC Magazine's rating of cameras to be any more credible than I would their rating of computers.

Godfrey

 

[phx]

It's not a camera problem - it's obviously a user problem.
--



http://wheelgunner.zoto.com/galleries http://www.fotolog.com/hogrider/ (a Pic a Day)

 

[Alex123]

This is bad to have mistakes like this:

Our daylight shots revealed little noise at 100 or 400 ISO, a bit more at 800, and a significant increase at 1600 and 3200, all of which is pretty standard.

 

[Anastigmat]

While experienced and dedicated user know and can utlize RAW. this
is not probably the nominal customer base where the DS2 aiming for.
Also Pentax wait for far too ,ong before making this model
availiable to other market ( other than Japan that is ). The so-so
result right from the camera JPEG is exactly what it is when
reviewing it against competetions like the Oly E-500 or Canon
EOS-350D. While I do think the DS2's capability is not that bad,
truth is for majority of its intended market, customers will be
using AUTO WB + in camera JPEG. Let's just say Pentax is lagging
behind others in this respect.

Not to mention the price of the DS2 is not exactly exciting either.

It is not cheap compared to the DL, but the inclusion of TTL flash is worth the difference. Buying a P-TTL flash for the DL would bring it to nearly the same price as the DS. P-TTL ringflashes are also not available. And when they are, they will not be cheap.

No the DS2 is not too bad a camera, but the competetions prove a
tag better still ...

Some competitors have more resolution, but the DS has a better and bigger viewfinder. Some has the same viewfinder size and brightness but cost at least 2-3 times as much. Some, like the Fuji S2 Pro, have TTL flash as well, but is the same in resolution and costs twice as much. Try and find another DSLR with true TTL flash (not the preflash variety) , big and bright viewfinder, a 6 mp APS-C size or larger sensor for less than $1,000, and you will find that none exists. Knowledgeable photographers know the value of the DS/DS2. Magazine reviewers, even those who make a living reviewing cameras for magazines, often are not knowledgeable.

I think the Pentax engineer would do well to
learn something from Minolta, just look at the way the 7D allowing
people to set their JPEG conversion to their liking .... and not to
mention the far better ergonomics too !!

I hate to say it, but Minolta is out of the camera making business altogether. Pentax must be doing something right.

I think its fair time
Pentax recognize their own shortcoming in the area of imaging
software/firmware and get working on it real stright ....

Yes, Pentax is not the greatest in in camera imaging software, but look at Mamiya. The ZD is said to have lousy JPEGs but good RAW files. It is also Mamiya's first digital camera. Pentax has been making digital cameras a lot longer than Mamiya but it has much less experience than either Canon or Nikon in making DSLR camera. All in all, the *ist D is a very good first effort, and the DS/DS2 is an improvement in most respects over the D. Better JPEG conversion will come with more experience and improved expertise.

Otherwise, no matter how good thier next DSLR might be, if its
proving yet another case of requiring too much work from the user,
its not going to meet the need and expectation of its intended mass
market ..

--
Franka

I am more worried about the sensor for the new D. If it is going to be 10mp and 1.5x crop, then it will be noisy and underwhelming. I am not worried about in camera JPEG conversion at all.

http://www.dslrphoto.com/2006/03/31/poll-which-is-the-most-important-in-your-dslr-camera-choice/

The poll above, though unscientific, shows that most users who responded want low noise at high ISO settings.

 

[Pasvorn]

Naming DS2 8th worst product of 2006 probably is too harsh. However, IMHO, there is some spirit in the review.

When I bought my DL, I looked long and hard, and was considering DS, DS2, C-XT, and N-D50. I can't figure out the different between DS2, and the DS, except the bigger screen, and higher price.

I, myself, think the DS2 is only a Marketing ploy to get more money out of an existing product line. Pentax comes out with newer model almost every 6 months. All of them, I think are a little upgrade. What are they thinking!

If I have to pay $650-700 for body only, I will probably will have to think long and hard also.

-Pasvorn

 

[jeffkrol]

Naming DS2 8th worst product of 2006 probably is too harsh.
However, IMHO, there is some spirit in the review.

Could compare that review to this one
http://www.popphoto.com/article.asp?section_id=2&article_id=1924&page_number=6

When I bought my DL, I looked long and hard, and was considering
DS, DS2, C-XT, and N-D50. I can't figure out the different between
DS2, and the DS, except the bigger screen, and higher price.

Probably true.

I, myself, think the DS2 is only a Marketing ploy to get more money
out of an existing product line.

DS line has the TTL flash sensor. DS line has more focus sensors as well if I'm not mistaken. The DL doesn't. Pentax "ploys" are no different than paying $500 for a $50 "Sound system upgrade" in an automobile. If you want it you pay for it..... Actually can't think of a product line that doesn't follow this trend. Small increases in features/quality w/ larger increase in price.

Pentax comes out with newer model

almost every 6 months. All of them, I think are a little upgrade.
What are they thinking!

Maybe trying to see what's truely important to buyers and what's not.
Consider it research.

If I have to pay $650-700 for body only, I will probably will have
to think long and hard also.

Kind of makes us $1600 for a "D" buyers look kind of silly

At the current price of the D vs all other series I'd still probably shell out the extra cash, at the least for a DS and it would not be easy to throw out the D. Personal opinion.

At $600 I still think your getting a fair deal IF you need the few extras..... The kit lens can be added for a $100 increase. Still a good deal on that lens.

-Pasvorn

--
360 minutes from the prime meridian. (-5375min, 3.55sec) 1093' above sea level.

 

[Adam_F]

I had resubscribed to PC Mag since lately I've had a renewed interest in personal computing hardware trends.

Between the lack of actual content and their unprofessional hatchet jobs on Pentax I most certainly will NOT be renewing my subscription. In fact, I'm sorry that I ever wasted the money in the first place.

Cheers!
--
Adam_F
rochskier
http://rochskier.smugmug.com
*ist DS, Optio 33WR

 

[Adam_F]

Absolutely right! Pentax helps sponsor my local community arts center along with Kodak and Ilford. C & N are nowhere to be found on the list, yet I see the bulletin boards full of flyers for discounts on C & N gear.

Ah well, still nice to see the Pentax billboards getting the word out at the Yankee games.

The article is probably right in what it says but as mentioned,
that is only part of the story. I think that there is a concerted
effort to downgrade Pentax on the part of reviewers and camera
retailers everywhere. When I go to Wolfe Photo for prints, or
equipment, I always see misinformation being spread about Pentax
but C and N are always portrayed as perfect in every aspect. So,
nothing new here......
--
'This is not that serious.....let's all have fun.'

--
Adam_F
rochskier
http://rochskier.smugmug.com
*ist DS, Optio 33WR

 

[asad_masede]

This was pretty interesting, they were pretty harsh in their
criticism, also read the replys to the review, there's only seven
but they came out swinging.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1930734,00.asp

LoL! What do those nerds know about cameras and photography. They're after gadgets and in that sense, I'm glad the DS2 turned out to be one of the worst. It's a photographer's tool first and formost.

Now, if the DS2 was 8+ "MEGAPIXEL OMG!!!" and spoon fed you nice JPGs, they'd have loved it.
--



SMC Pentax FA* http://www.photo.net/photos/3BSD mm F1.4 ED AL IF Limited

 

[Patrick T. Kelly]

Reviews of digital cameras in a computer magazine make about as much sense as Popular Photography having computer reviews. To be honest, I find reviews in photography magazines to be only marginally better. I've read some where I honestly don't think the reviewer had ever used the camera. At least, they wouldn't include one P&S with six DSLRs and then give the P&S rave reviews. For reviews, I'll go to the internet.

 

[Cam Traviss]

I stopped reading that a while ago. The sub. is way too expensive for what you get.
I wouldn't trust any camera review they do, either.

You know, I bought a D50 recently. Not because I was going to get rid of my Pentax stuff, but because it was a great deal. OK, so now I own one of the "leaders". I've shot exclusively with it for a couple of weeks, and left the DS at home. I think I have enough cred on the forum to state there are a couple of ways that this camera is better than the DS. But photo quallity is not one of them. That review couldn't even get the ISO speeds of the camera correct. C'mon! I've seen postings from members using D series cameras that are as good as anything The big 2 can put out.

This was probably some motherboard expert who got handed a DS2 and was ordered to review it. It's fashionable to drool all over C and N stuff but I like to see for myself. Now that I own a N product, I see why there was a buzz. But that isn't going to get me to sell my DS. I slap the 50mm FA or the 77mm on that camera and I'm in love. AND for way less dough.

So don't be swayed by magazines, especially non-photographic magazines. Pick 'em up and shoot with them, and go for the one that feels best.
--
'what's this button do?'

 

[Kurt Schilling]

Franka T.L. wrote:
.... and not to

mention the far better ergonomics too !!

• honestly, I didn't tkink a camera with better ergonomics than my istDs existed..... yes, i have held one of the last models Minolta made... and i think it very clumsy compared to my Pentax!

--
Kurt S.