montior calibrated with adobe gamma

[Dave52127]

I've had my monitor calibrated by a specialist but when I tried adobe gamma I found it different, doing the best that can be done with A'gamma I found the monitor gone brighter on the same 2.2 setting, now I kept this way found all my D1 shots perfect color using any aplication but my question is this:

do I need to compensate for the monitor? using Photopaint (color manager off or on)

if the monitor is calibrated why do we need to do the compensation? or the calibration for display? shouldn't I see the color right without it?

Note: the D1 is giving me spote on colors (nothing called magenta cast anymore).

David

 

[henri56123]

David, I work with Photoshop 6 but I believe there are sufficient similaraties between both programs to make some comment; calibrating you monitor creats an icc profiles which is a description on how your monitor shows things; in Photoshop is work ain what is called a "device indepandant color space" and mine is adobergb.icc (but you can choose others lika colormatchrgb etc..) and you have to set MOINITOR COMPENSATION ON; then the icc working profile takes into account the properties of your particular monitor
If you want to know more about this profile stuff read
http://www.creativepro.com/author/home/40.html

Henri

I've had my monitor calibrated by a specialist but when I tried
adobe gamma I found it different, doing the best that can be done
with A'gamma I found the monitor gone brighter on the same 2.2
setting, now I kept this way found all my D1 shots perfect color
using any aplication but my question is this:
do I need to compensate for the monitor? using Photopaint (color
manager off or on)
if the monitor is calibrated why do we need to do the compensation?
or the calibration for display? shouldn't I see the color right
without it?

Note: the D1 is giving me spote on colors (nothing called magenta
cast anymore).

David

 

[Tom Maxwell]

If your system hardware supports monitor profiles, then once the profile is loaded on bootup, you shouldn't have to worry about it any longer.

However, if your system hardware does not support monitor profiles, then you need to make sure that each software program (photoshop, paint, whatever) is loading and using the monitor profile.

If you had your monitor professionally profiled, then I recommend you take adobe gamma off of your system and use only the profile supplied by the profiler. You can get into trouble with Adobe Gamma mixing with the hardware profile if you have them both running.

Use one or the other but not both.

 

[Dave52127]

Hi

I stoped using the one that was done by the profiler, at the moment I've got the one I made using A'gamma & it loads straight with windows, you can see the moment it loads the screen goes lighter so it's always there with all aplications, that's why I was wondering if I need to apply the compensation again with photopaint. since windows loads it for you using Adobe gamma loader.

David

If your system hardware supports monitor profiles, then once the
profile is loaded on bootup, you shouldn't have to worry about it
any longer.

However, if your system hardware does not support monitor profiles,
then you need to make sure that each software program (photoshop,
paint, whatever) is loading and using the monitor profile.

If you had your monitor professionally profiled, then I recommend
you take adobe gamma off of your system and use only the profile
supplied by the profiler. You can get into trouble with Adobe Gamma
mixing with the hardware profile if you have them both running.

Use one or the other but not both.

 

[phyll]

Gentlemen

I am new to digital printing, I have a question hope you can give me answer or direction.

In A'gamma calibration, it ask you to set the montior contrast to highest and adjust the brightness to a lowest point where you can bearly see the gray square.

1) Are you saying that I have to keep the setting when I use photoshop to color tuning?

2) Once I have that setting, am I going to get the same ( or very similar ) color on the monitor and on print? When is the use of the soft proof? Should I adjust my color based on the soft proof viewing? I am kind of confused.

Regards

 

[Maurice Gordon]

David:

Just my 2 cents worth.

It is my basic understanding that in order to obtain consistent color, all hardware items must have a profile calibrated to the same standard. For input data, a profile based on the input device needs to be applied to the data.

1. I have calibrated my monitor using the advanced functions (3 color rather than gray scale) in Adobe Gamma Loader (AGL) and hardware information from the Monitor Manufacturer. Newer monitors come with profiles. AGL loads in the startup group but please note that if your screen blanks due to energy savings, Adobe Gamma must be restarted.

2. My HP printer has its own color management which is related to the sRGB color space and the default works fine here.

3. My preferred working color space is Adobe RGB but D1 photo colors are not perfect when the photos are loaded in this space. For D1 photos. I have used excellent profiles from Bibble Labs and QImage pro. On loading, I applie the profile to all of the D1 photos and the images are adjusted to suit my system. Before saving or printing, I convert the color space to AdobeRGB or sRGB so that other programs which are not profile aware (such as my browser ACDSee) will display properly. In addition my printer will print a truer picture than if I left the D1 profile applied. (Converting the photos at this time will have a minimal effect on color rendition.

Anyway, I hope this helped.

Regards,
Maurice Gordon
Houston

I've had my monitor calibrated by a specialist but when I tried
adobe gamma I found it different, doing the best that can be done
with A'gamma I found the monitor gone brighter on the same 2.2
setting, now I kept this way found all my D1 shots perfect color
using any aplication but my question is this:
do I need to compensate for the monitor? using Photopaint (color
manager off or on)
if the monitor is calibrated why do we need to do the compensation?
or the calibration for display? shouldn't I see the color right
without it?

Note: the D1 is giving me spote on colors (nothing called magenta
cast anymore).

David

 

[Rinus Borgsteede]

Gentlemen

I am new to digital printing, I have a question hope you can give
me answer or direction.

In A'gamma calibration, it ask you to set the montior contrast to
highest and adjust the brightness to a lowest point where you can
bearly see the gray square.

1) Are you saying that I have to keep the setting when I use
photoshop to color tuning?

2) Once I have that setting, am I going to get the same ( or very
similar ) color on the monitor and on print? When is the use of
the soft proof? Should I adjust my color based on the soft proof
viewing? I am kind of confused.

Regards

The adjustment of Contrast and brightness has nothing to do with color but everything with the range and brightness of tones in a print or other output device.

Setting proper color is the next thing in Adobe gamma with comparing the gray patches in the advanced setup.
Rinus

 

[Dave52127]

tanx to you all guys for your replies.

So, after the ICC is applied with gamma loader when windows starts (you can see that the screen is changed) dosn't mean that the loader has applied the ICC to the screen? Well, do you still need to use monitor compensation?

My understanding is, if you don't load the ICC at the start, or lets say the gamma loader doesn't read the ICC profile for some reason, then you would need the software that you're using to compensate for the ICC profile, is this right or I got it mixed up somehow somewhere, Please excuse me if I still don't get it.

David

Just my 2 cents worth.

It is my basic understanding that in order to obtain consistent
color, all hardware items must have a profile calibrated to the
same standard. For input data, a profile based on the input device
needs to be applied to the data.

1. I have calibrated my monitor using the advanced functions (3
color rather than gray scale) in Adobe Gamma Loader (AGL) and
hardware information from the Monitor Manufacturer. Newer monitors
come with profiles. AGL loads in the startup group but please note
that if your screen blanks due to energy savings, Adobe Gamma must
be restarted.

2. My HP printer has its own color management which is related to
the sRGB color space and the default works fine here.

3. My preferred working color space is Adobe RGB but D1 photo
colors are not perfect when the photos are loaded in this space.
For D1 photos. I have used excellent profiles from Bibble Labs and
QImage pro. On loading, I applie the profile to all of the D1
photos and the images are adjusted to suit my system. Before
saving or printing, I convert the color space to AdobeRGB or sRGB
so that other programs which are not profile aware (such as my
browser ACDSee) will display properly. In addition my printer will
print a truer picture than if I left the D1 profile applied.
(Converting the photos at this time will have a minimal effect on
color rendition.

Anyway, I hope this helped.

Regards,
Maurice Gordon
Houston

I've had my monitor calibrated by a specialist but when I tried
adobe gamma I found it different, doing the best that can be done
with A'gamma I found the monitor gone brighter on the same 2.2
setting, now I kept this way found all my D1 shots perfect color
using any aplication but my question is this:
do I need to compensate for the monitor? using Photopaint (color
manager off or on)
if the monitor is calibrated why do we need to do the compensation?
or the calibration for display? shouldn't I see the color right
without it?

Note: the D1 is giving me spote on colors (nothing called magenta
cast anymore).

David

 

[TBoyd]

David:

It appears from the info you provided that you are using both Corel PhotoPaint and Adobe PS on the same PC.

I tried this for a while, trying to get the profiles correct for both programs. I spent a LOT of time on this & came real close, but was never totally satisfied with the results. I never got any good answers from anyone concerning this problem after posting in various forums.

I never liked the fact that A-gamma ran in the Windows control panel, dominating the way everything (including Corel PP) was viewed. If I edited a pic & uploaded to the web, there were severe gamma differences.

I finally gave up on Adobe & stuck with Corel PP9. I'm not trying to influence anyone that reads this. I know PS is the most popular program to date. I just did what worked best for my needs.

The default sRGB profile works just fine in the Corel PP9. Loading the correct monitor profile in PP mainly compensates for the gamma value of the monitor, so your prints won't come out lighter or darker than what you see on the screen. (They will also look the same after uploading to the web).

If possible, stick to one image-editing program for print & web processing. It will save you added grief, and you will be able to concentrate on excelling in your editing abilities on that one program.

Just my 2 cents.....

---TBoyd

I've had my monitor calibrated by a specialist but when I tried
adobe gamma I found it different, doing the best that can be done
with A'gamma I found the monitor gone brighter on the same 2.2
setting, now I kept this way found all my D1 shots perfect color
using any aplication but my question is this:
do I need to compensate for the monitor? using Photopaint (color
manager off or on)
if the monitor is calibrated why do we need to do the compensation?
or the calibration for display? shouldn't I see the color right
without it?

Note: the D1 is giving me spote on colors (nothing called magenta
cast anymore).

David

 

[Dave52127]

TBoyd,

I agree with you, I allready stoped using PS long time ago (with all respects) wished Aldus PhotoStyler is still going, at the moment I use PP & you're right about confusion when uploading to the web, coze not many viewers have their system calibrated, but the thing that made me load the ICC with windows is to be able to view it right with other aplications that don't support ICC profiling, & when doing some work on the net I normally swich ICC off.

David

It appears from the info you provided that you are using both Corel
PhotoPaint and Adobe PS on the same PC.

I tried this for a while, trying to get the profiles correct for
both programs. I spent a LOT of time on this & came real close, but
was never totally satisfied with the results. I never got any good
answers from anyone concerning this problem after posting in
various forums.

I never liked the fact that A-gamma ran in the Windows control
panel, dominating the way everything (including Corel PP) was
viewed. If I edited a pic & uploaded to the web, there were severe
gamma differences.

I finally gave up on Adobe & stuck with Corel PP9. I'm not trying
to influence anyone that reads this. I know PS is the most popular
program to date. I just did what worked best for my needs.

The default sRGB profile works just fine in the Corel PP9. Loading
the correct monitor profile in PP mainly compensates for the gamma
value of the monitor, so your prints won't come out lighter or
darker than what you see on the screen. (They will also look the
same after uploading to the web).

If possible, stick to one image-editing program for print & web
processing. It will save you added grief, and you will be able to
concentrate on excelling in your editing abilities on that one
program.

Just my 2 cents.....

---TBoyd

I've had my monitor calibrated by a specialist but when I tried
adobe gamma I found it different, doing the best that can be done
with A'gamma I found the monitor gone brighter on the same 2.2
setting, now I kept this way found all my D1 shots perfect color
using any aplication but my question is this:
do I need to compensate for the monitor? using Photopaint (color
manager off or on)
if the monitor is calibrated why do we need to do the compensation?
or the calibration for display? shouldn't I see the color right
without it?

Note: the D1 is giving me spote on colors (nothing called magenta
cast anymore).

David

 

[Dave52127]

Forgot to tell you that even though it was callibrated properly choosing windows gamma 2.2 when you adjust the gray & color squares I end up with brighter screen gamma 1.8 which I don't mind if this is not a problem or if there isn't anything going wrong.
any advice why the screen goes brighter to 1.8 (tested with a gamma chart) ?

David

I've had my monitor calibrated by a specialist but when I tried
adobe gamma I found it different, doing the best that can be done
with A'gamma I found the monitor gone brighter on the same 2.2
setting, now I kept this way found all my D1 shots perfect color
using any aplication but my question is this:
do I need to compensate for the monitor? using Photopaint (color
manager off or on)
if the monitor is calibrated why do we need to do the compensation?
or the calibration for display? shouldn't I see the color right
without it?

Note: the D1 is giving me spote on colors (nothing called magenta
cast anymore).

David

 

[TBoyd]

David:

What version of PP are you using? I remember when I had version 8, I tried adjusting using the calibration steps provided by Corel. It came close to giving me the correct gamma/color, but it wasn't dead-on target.

Oddly enough, PP9 does not have this calibration procedure. That should speak for itself! The default sRGB color profile & the correct monitor profile provided with version 9 works very well.

I won't try to answer your last question, as all this makes my head hurt! Perhaps someone can jump in with a good answer. (Usually the correct answer is so complex that, after reading it, you say "huh"?)

Good luck!

---TBoyd

Forgot to tell you that even though it was callibrated properly
choosing windows gamma 2.2 when you adjust the gray & color squares
I end up with brighter screen gamma 1.8 which I don't mind if this
is not a problem or if there isn't anything going wrong.
any advice why the screen goes brighter to 1.8 (tested with a gamma
chart) ?

David

 

[Dave52127]

TBoyd

The PP I'm using at the moment is v8, but the calibration was done using A'gamma.

about the second answer, don't worry, Please say it I allready said huh? lol ... It can be very helpful unless as you said it makes your head hurt...

Tanx to everyone here who took time to answer my questions.

David

What version of PP are you using? I remember when I had version 8,
I tried adjusting using the calibration steps provided by Corel. It
came close to giving me the correct gamma/color, but it wasn't
dead-on target.

Oddly enough, PP9 does not have this calibration procedure. That
should speak for itself! The default sRGB color profile & the
correct monitor profile provided with version 9 works very well.

I won't try to answer your last question, as all this makes my head
hurt! Perhaps someone can jump in with a good answer. (Usually the
correct answer is so complex that, after reading it, you say "huh"?)

Good luck!

---TBoyd

Forgot to tell you that even though it was callibrated properly
choosing windows gamma 2.2 when you adjust the gray & color squares
I end up with brighter screen gamma 1.8 which I don't mind if this
is not a problem or if there isn't anything going wrong.
any advice why the screen goes brighter to 1.8 (tested with a gamma
chart) ?

David

 

[nicola]

I found a calibration procedure using adobe gamma on: http://www.popphoto.com/HowTo/ArticleDisplay.asp?ArticleID=24
I followed all the steps and calibrated choosing Adobe RGB as working space.

However, the prints i get from my Epson 870 on Premium PG Paper look much more reddish than compared to what I get if I choose to calibrate in sRGB working space.

Actually, I see sRGB much more consistent to what I see on the monitor if compared to Adobe RGB.

So, I wonder if the procedure explained on the above page is actually correct at all!!!!
Any comment?

PS how do I switch the ICC profile on and off? It never appears that option on my PC's Win98SE OS.

I've had my monitor calibrated by a specialist but when I tried
adobe gamma I found it different, doing the best that can be done
with A'gamma I found the monitor gone brighter on the same 2.2
setting, now I kept this way found all my D1 shots perfect color
using any aplication but my question is this:
do I need to compensate for the monitor? using Photopaint (color
manager off or on)
if the monitor is calibrated why do we need to do the compensation?
or the calibration for display? shouldn't I see the color right
without it?

Note: the D1 is giving me spote on colors (nothing called magenta
cast anymore).

David

 

[Dave52127]

nicola

assuming you have the ICC loaded with windows the way I have it, using matrox millinum video card, I go to desktop Properies, Settings, Advanced, and press the tab " Color " not color management etc... the "color" & that switches the ICC that was loaded off.

Now if your procedures are different or your Video card is different, I don't know what other options you have.

David

PS how do I switch the ICC profile on and off? It never appears
that option on my PC's Win98SE OS.

I've had my monitor calibrated by a specialist but when I tried
adobe gamma I found it different, doing the best that can be done
with A'gamma I found the monitor gone brighter on the same 2.2
setting, now I kept this way found all my D1 shots perfect color
using any aplication but my question is this:
do I need to compensate for the monitor? using Photopaint (color
manager off or on)
if the monitor is calibrated why do we need to do the compensation?
or the calibration for display? shouldn't I see the color right
without it?

Note: the D1 is giving me spote on colors (nothing called magenta
cast anymore).

David

 

[Timo Autiokari]

The adjustment of Contrast and brightness
has nothing to do with color

Actually the Brightness control of the monitor does affect to color, I use this fact in my monitor calibration target:
http://www.aim-dtp.net/aim/evaluation/cdg/cdg.htm

It is very important to have the Brightness control of the moniitor (that actually sets the blackpoint) accurately set so that the monitor does not emit any light at RGB=0,0,0. In case it is set so that it emits light then the effective viewing gamma of the CRT is adversely altered and there will be hue-shifts due to the tri-chromatic method that our digital colors are represented on the CRT.

Timo Autiokari