G2 and F707 sample images (comparison)

[softtower]

I've been looking at G2 and F707 for a long time. Could not decide which one is for me. And as some people already know I bought both, hoping to compare their images. I don't want to start a new G2 vs F707 war, this message is addressed to people who are having hard times trying to pick one of those two. I am not even saying which camera I decided to keep. I know I've been known here for my criticism, so I feel obligated to say this: Sony did a lot better than I expected.

Here we go: http://kontsevoy.com/comparo

--
Eugueny

P.S. Files are still uploading from my home PC to WEB-server, not all pictures are available right now, it will take about 20 more minutes. ( 120MB)

 

[Ulysses]

softtower, this may be your most objective series of comments so far. ;-)

It seems that you are discovering for yourself many of the same things (both positive and negative) that experienced users have been trying to say all along. Oh well... I guess you needed to see it all with the cameras in your own hands.

Which sort of goes to prove that much of this field is very subjective and open to interpretation ("some people would prefer..." is a notable phrase that both Phil and experienced users have been voicing for a long time) . So much of photography works through the individual eye. There are very few absolutes. Many of the "problem" areas can be worked around, as you found out in your very nice page of demonstrations and comparisons.

I'm glad that you did NOT post which camera you decided to return and which you are keeping. In the end, it all comes down to what the photographer is doing with his tools than which tools he has in his possession.

Enjoy your camera, whichever that may be...

DARK ANGEL DARK ANGEL DARK ANGEL

 

[AndyM59248]

I've been looking at G2 and F707 for a long time. Could not decide
which one is for me. And as some people already know I bought both,
hoping to compare their images. I don't want to start a new G2 vs
F707 war, this message is addressed to people who are having hard
times trying to pick one of those two. I am not even saying which
camera I decided to keep. I know I've been known here for my
criticism, so I feel obligated to say this: Sony did a lot better
than I expected.

Here we go: http://kontsevoy.com/comparo

WOW - you have been busy Softtower !

Many thanks for spending so much time to share with us your image comparisons.

The only thing that surprises me is that you have been able to choose between the two cameras so quickly - whichever one that may be ! ;-)

Anyway thanks again,

Andy

 

[antoine52756]

Softtower,

It's a great comparition! Actually they are both great cameras. It's very hard to tell the different unless you zoom in alot closer. But...I still go with F707 because it offers alot more features at the same price.

Anyway, I love your post this time. It's a great post with a great attitude. Criticism is perfectly OK if we present it in a nice way then alot of people will appreciate it!

Thanks for sharing.

Antoine

I've been looking at G2 and F707 for a long time. Could not decide
which one is for me. And as some people already know I bought both,
hoping to compare their images. I don't want to start a new G2 vs
F707 war, this message is addressed to people who are having hard
times trying to pick one of those two. I am not even saying which
camera I decided to keep. I know I've been known here for my
criticism, so I feel obligated to say this: Sony did a lot better
than I expected.

Here we go: http://kontsevoy.com/comparo

--
Eugueny

P.S. Files are still uploading from my home PC to WEB-server, not
all pictures are available right now, it will take about 20 more
minutes. ( 120MB)

 

[sunnyt]

Many thanks for sharing your hard work. I am still going through your comparison but just want to take a quick break to say a sincere "thank you" first.

Quick questions, if I may
1. Is the 707 red that far off from the real life objects in your comparison?

2. How about the skin tone of your girl friend/wife/model? Which camera is closer to the truth?
3. Other than "red", how does other color (e.g. the shampoo) compares?

TIA
sunnyt

I've been looking at G2 and F707 for a long time. Could not decide
which one is for me. And as some people already know I bought both,
hoping to compare their images. I don't want to start a new G2 vs
F707 war, this message is addressed to people who are having hard
times trying to pick one of those two. I am not even saying which
camera I decided to keep. I know I've been known here for my
criticism, so I feel obligated to say this: Sony did a lot better
than I expected.

Here we go: http://kontsevoy.com/comparo

--
Eugueny

P.S. Files are still uploading from my home PC to WEB-server, not
all pictures are available right now, it will take about 20 more
minutes. ( 120MB)

 

[softtower]

1. Is the 707 red that far off from the real life objects in your
comparison?

When there is not much light - yes, I have an action in photoshop to fix this.

2. How about the skin tone of your girl friend/wife/model? Which
camera is closer to the truth?

Depends on the photo, in my opinion. Just see all pictures (theres' some 'misc' galleries too) and decide which skintone reproduction you like more.

3. Other than "red", how does other color (e.g. the shampoo)
compares?

Very accurate.

 

[AndyM59248]

..................................................I am not even saying which
camera I decided to keep. I know I've been known here for my
criticism, so I feel obligated to say this: Sony did a lot better
than I expected.

One other question Softtower - you mentioned that your wife took some of the photos for your website. Did you both come to the same conclusion as to which camera to keep, or did you prefer different cameras from the handling and ergonomics point of view - (image quality aside) ?
Andy

 

[probepro]

The first thing that I noticed was how similar these images are. Matrix vs. center weighted probably accounts for some of the metering differences. Center weighted metering of your friend on the steps would have given better exposure and WB for the F707. Other than that, no real surprises.

1) G2 colors are more realistic.
2) F707 colors are more staturated, especially reds and greens.
3) F707 is noticeably sharper

Both cameras are impressive, and they each are tops in their class. My ideal affordable camera would be the G2 with a 5x zoom and EVF. Maybe next year.

Quick questions, if I may
1. Is the 707 red that far off from the real life objects in your
comparison?
2. How about the skin tone of your girl friend/wife/model? Which
camera is closer to the truth?
3. Other than "red", how does other color (e.g. the shampoo) compares?

TIA
sunnyt

I've been looking at G2 and F707 for a long time. Could not decide
which one is for me. And as some people already know I bought both,
hoping to compare their images. I don't want to start a new G2 vs
F707 war, this message is addressed to people who are having hard
times trying to pick one of those two. I am not even saying which
camera I decided to keep. I know I've been known here for my
criticism, so I feel obligated to say this: Sony did a lot better
than I expected.

Here we go: http://kontsevoy.com/comparo

--
Eugueny

P.S. Files are still uploading from my home PC to WEB-server, not
all pictures are available right now, it will take about 20 more
minutes. ( 120MB)

 

[Ed (;¬ >)]

I have to add my voice of appreciation to the rest. That was a lot of work!

I have only hopscotched amonst the group, but I am at first struck by the similarlty between most of the pictures. The one area whare they differ greatly is in the night shots.

There is no argument that the 707 is clearly the resolution winner. Even when I have aesthetic reservations over som of its pictures I can not fault its sharpness and clarity.

The night shots are indicative of this. Almost unanimously I preferthe G2 shots. But if I needed detail and stark (very stark) realism—look at the license plates in the parking lot for example—the 707 wins hands down.

What also surprised me was that the Canon seemed to give both you and your wife a more flushed/ruddy complexion than the Sony. The Canon, over-all, seemed 'softer' more 'organic;' the Sony more analytical.

I read both your post and your introduction to your comparisons. It didn't seem like I was listening to the same fellow I had been bantering with for the past days in the forum here. If this exercize does nothing else, it seems to have done you a world of good.

I agree wholeheartedly with you that it will take a concerted effort in examining these pictures, downloading them, even printing some of them before coming to a conclusion. But rest assured, you have performed a great service for many of us.

Thanks, again.

-Ed

I've been looking at G2 and F707 for a long time. Could not decide
which one is for me. And as some people already know I bought both,
hoping to compare their images. I don't want to start a new G2 vs
F707 war, this message is addressed to people who are having hard
times trying to pick one of those two. I am not even saying which
camera I decided to keep. I know I've been known here for my
criticism, so I feel obligated to say this: Sony did a lot better
than I expected.

Here we go: http://kontsevoy.com/comparo

--
Eugueny

P.S. Files are still uploading from my home PC to WEB-server, not
all pictures are available right now, it will take about 20 more
minutes. ( 120MB)

 

[Ulysses]

I agree wholeheartedly with you that it will take a concerted
effort in examining these pictures, downloading them, even printing
some of them before coming to a conclusion. But rest assured, you
have performed a great service for many of us.

It will also take more than just a few days of shooting before we truly begin to see the photographers using either camera come even close to optimizing their results due to effort and experience and knowledge of their tool of choice.

At this level of performance, there will be areas that will come under the heading of "Subjective Performance", and there will be other areas that will come under "Technical Performance".

When all is said and done, it will depend more upon the photographer to get the results that he wants.

Thank goodness that each camera is a real performer, and thank goodness we have choices! Thank goodness, too, that each company will be working to improve their products for the future!

 

[Joshua Tillman]

Thanks for th eposting, Both cameras did very well. I switched my mind on several occasions on which camera to buy. I went with the 707 as the camera for me. I don not know that one camera can be better than the next. The image quality was supurb on both cameras. It appeared to me that the 707 has a shallower dof than that of the G2. I like that effect very much and it was present in the portrait shot that were taken. Still curious to which camera you bought softtower.

I agree wholeheartedly with you that it will take a concerted
effort in examining these pictures, downloading them, even printing
some of them before coming to a conclusion. But rest assured, you
have performed a great service for many of us.

It will also take more than just a few days of shooting before we
truly begin to see the photographers using either camera come even
close to optimizing their results due to effort and experience and
knowledge of their tool of choice.

At this level of performance, there will be areas that will come
under the heading of "Subjective Performance", and there will be
other areas that will come under "Technical Performance".

When all is said and done, it will depend more upon the
photographer to get the results that he wants.

Thank goodness that each camera is a real performer, and thank
goodness we have choices! Thank goodness, too, that each company
will be working to improve their products for the future!

 

[Todd Meyers]

Softtower,

Thanks for the positive attitude in this new thread. I had to do a double-take after reading your page to make sure this really came from you!

After looking at all of the pics, it's obvious that both of those cameras are great. The pics are so similar most of the time, and when they are significantly different, it's usually a subjective thing. Just going by what I see on your site, with pretty much all-auto settings, it's hard to make the call. I do really like the way the F707's pics seem more "alive" at times, but I have a feeling the G2's images are more "true" to the original scene. But I'd expect that a capable user would learn their camera's capabilities & quirks, and by knowing their camera, be able to obtain superb results with either camera. And then there's post-processing...I won't even open that can of worms. But both of them are obviously worthy tools in the right hands.

I do think the Sony's night/low-light capability is pretty awesome, though. That's one area that the F707 really seems to excel.

Another thing I am excited about is exploring the F707's potential in IR photography. If you're not familiar with it, here are a couple of links:

http://www.atsf.co.uk/ilight/index.html

http://home.twcny.rr.com/scho/newpics/intro.html

The F707's "Nightshot" mode may just make it the current king of digital IR photography. Granted, it's a niche thing, but it's something I'm into, and the F707 is practically tailor-made for it.

Since I already own all the accessories for the F707 (WA lens, flash, remote, memory sticks, extra batteries, etc.), my upgrade path is clear. But if I were making the decision from scratch today, I'd be happy with either camera and never look back. So if you're on the fence, the decision may come down to which camera has the features you'll really use. Because it looks like either camera will take great pictures.

Todd

I've been looking at G2 and F707 for a long time. Could not decide
which one is for me. And as some people already know I bought both,
hoping to compare their images. I don't want to start a new G2 vs
F707 war, this message is addressed to people who are having hard
times trying to pick one of those two. I am not even saying which
camera I decided to keep. I know I've been known here for my
criticism, so I feel obligated to say this: Sony did a lot better
than I expected.

Here we go: http://kontsevoy.com/comparo

--
Eugueny

P.S. Files are still uploading from my home PC to WEB-server, not
all pictures are available right now, it will take about 20 more
minutes. ( 120MB)

 

[Mike Fitzgerald]

Eugueny, a very big thankyou for the huge amount of work you've put into this exercise.

I've been in exactly the same position as you since the F707 has hit the stores. Although I've always regarded its colour as way off the mark, I've recognised the impressive amount of image data it captures and decided, long since, that everything was there for the taking with the aid of Photoshop. Meanwhile, there's that very useful zoom range, and I'm quite keen on the 707's ergonomics.

Then came the discovery of Pekka Saarinen's incredible work with the G1 -- the richness and veracity of colour without oversaturation (Canon's general colour accuracy is also supported by Phil's G2 review samples). I started wondering just how much work would be needed to get the results I wanted from the F707, and, more to the point, how much of the colour adjustment could be assigned to Actions.

But Pekka shoots almost everything RAW, and I've generally felt that the biggest variable in user shots from the 707 has been its questionable auto WB. In fact I've always regarded the whole concept of AWB as little more than a consumer gimmick and plan to use manual wherever possible, if not RAW (and I know the Sony is very quick for setting manual WB). Your series has completely answered all the worries I've been having about the 707, and confirmed that it will do what I want of it. Interesting, though, that you feel the 707 did a better job with AWB in daylight. My impressions were the opposite -- that it's much more easily fooled into heavy bluish greens by subjects with a restricted colour range. Personal taste only, of course.

I hope your considerable efforts have answered your own dilemma, and that you'll get a great deal of enjoyment and satisfaction from your choice -- whatever that might be.

Lastly, I do hope this isn't going to leave you out-of-pocket because of bandwidth usage -- I think your site is going to have a huge amount of traffic viewing these images. Please let us know if you blow your volume limit big time. I'm sure there are many of us who would be most happy to help with your excess charges.

Thanks again, and best regards --
Mike

 

[Mike63856]

Some of the G2 pics do look sharper. Would simply increasing the built-in sharpness level in the F707 yield better results? In other words, I'm leaning towards the F707 because of handling, zoom, and many other capabilities that may be objectively better than the G2's, but if some of the G2's pictures seem sharper, would it not be as simple as increasing the F707's built in sharpness selector by a notch to get more comparable results?

Mike

 

[Mike Fitzgerald]

My ideal affordable camera would be the G2 with a 5x zoom and EVF.
Maybe next year.

You reckon I haven't been cursing Canon over the last weeks for not doing exactly that!?? I'd love to see what they could do with the E-10/D7/F707 concept. And let's have rear-curtain sync to add icing to the cake...

Mike

 

[tangli]

Some of the G2 pics do look sharper. Would simply increasing the
built-in sharpness level in the F707 yield better results? In other
words, I'm leaning towards the F707 because of handling, zoom, and
many other capabilities that may be objectively better than the
G2's, but if some of the G2's pictures seem sharper, would it not
be as simple as increasing the F707's built in sharpness selector
by a notch to get more comparable results?

Mike

I am a new G2 woner. To be hornest F707 image is sharper, file size is 3MB larger. the image size is larger @ same sharpness. I am not sure about color which is probably the personal preference.

For me the decision choosing G2 is pretty simple. size and price. G2 is smaller

and cheaper, $200 less brought from Dell $649. CF card and MD will cost less too. MR. Flash 128mb card for $45 and 256mb for $100 http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=list&catalog=68

SimpleTech's new 1 GB card CF comes out soon. see Cnet

otherwise I will choose F707. simple as that.

 

[sunnyt]

Eugueny,

We will soon know of your decision through your continued participation here at STF or over at the Canon forum, so let me say this in advance- honey catches more fly than vinegar - as evidenced by the immediate echos of appreciation of this very constructive posting of yours.

I, for one have benefited greatly from your hard work and no matter what your decision will bring you next, I wish I will see you here again.

sunnyt

softtower, this may be your most objective series of comments so
far. ;-)

It seems that you are discovering for yourself many of the same
things (both positive and negative) that experienced users have
been trying to say all along. Oh well... I guess you needed to see
it all with the cameras in your own hands.

Which sort of goes to prove that much of this field is very
subjective and open to interpretation ("some people would
prefer..." is a notable phrase that both Phil and experienced users
have been voicing for a long time) . So much of photography works
through the individual eye. There are very few absolutes. Many of
the "problem" areas can be worked around, as you found out in your
very nice page of demonstrations and comparisons.

I'm glad that you did NOT post which camera you decided to return
and which you are keeping. In the end, it all comes down to what
the photographer is doing with his tools than which tools he has in
his possession.

Enjoy your camera, whichever that may be...

DARK ANGEL DARK ANGEL DARK ANGEL
message>

 

[fbx]

Softtower--

Interesting and useful comparison. Thanks very much. I hope you enjoy whichever camera you decided to keep.

I've been looking at G2 and F707 for a long time. Could not decide
which one is for me. And as some people already know I bought both,
hoping to compare their images. I don't want to start a new G2 vs
F707 war, this message is addressed to people who are having hard
times trying to pick one of those two. I am not even saying which
camera I decided to keep. I know I've been known here for my
criticism, so I feel obligated to say this: Sony did a lot better
than I expected.

Here we go: http://kontsevoy.com/comparo

--
Eugueny

P.S. Files are still uploading from my home PC to WEB-server, not
all pictures are available right now, it will take about 20 more
minutes. ( 120MB)

 

[Martin Eager56124]

I've been looking at G2 and F707 for a long time. Could not decide
which one is for me. And as some people already know I bought both,
hoping to compare their images. I don't want to start a new G2 vs
F707 war, this message is addressed to people who are having hard
times trying to pick one of those two. I am not even saying which
camera I decided to keep. I know I've been known here for my
criticism, so I feel obligated to say this: Sony did a lot better
than I expected.

Here we go: http://kontsevoy.com/comparo

Excellent comparisons, but already I have spotted a flaw in your methods I'm afraid. Metering. On your web page you say:

"How accurate is the comparison? Not very accurate. ;-( I want to mention that by default these two cameras use different metering methods. G2 uses center-weighted-avereage metering, and F707 relies on the multi-segment metering. I didn't change this in most cases, but sometimes cameras had hard time picking the right exposure, so I've fixed this or used an exposure compensation. Don't use these images as a test for cameras metering systems, but I have to say this: when shooting indoors, F707 prefers to generate slightly more bright images. G2 pictures look more dark, and even if this is how the scene looked, some people would prefer how F707 does it's job. I'll talk about this some more later."

Thing is this. The G2 doesn't only use "center-weighted averaging". Yes, it has this mode, but the preferred and superior mode with the G2 is "Evaluative Metering" which looks at the whole frame before setting exposure. This mode is far more comparable to the F707's mutli-segment metering.

In my use of the G2 I have found the evaluative metering mode to be FAR superior to centre weighted averaging, which as you've noted does tend to result in darker and seemingly slightly under exposed pictures. Evaluative metering usually gives very accurate exposure on the G2 I've found.

So, whilst I don't want to criticise too much what is obviously a lot of work gone into a very useful comparison, I feel it should be pointed out that if the majority of your G2 shots were using centre-weighted averaging (as seems to be the case from examining the EXIF info), then you aren't comparing eggs with eggs where exposure is concerned.

Regards
Martin

 

[Ron Parr]

Thanks very much for this really interesting comparison.

In the majority of cases, I tended to prefer the Canon colors, but it wasn't a slam dunk for Canon. I was surprised by the number of shots where I thought the 707 did a better job.

I like the way the G2 handles shadow noise in those outdoor shots. I think that this is the greatest strength of the G2.

The extra detail that the 707 squeezes out of its 5MP sensor and CZ optics is very impressive. One such example is the detail visible on the front label of the wine bottle. The 707 gets the striped pattern, but the G2 largely misses it, introducing some artifacting and moire.

Ron Parr