A thought: 1D 4MP & 6MP?

[bradley phillip]

No rumours here, just a thought.

Neither Canon nor the photo industry as a whole tends to bring out top-of the line professional models of camera very frequently (on the order of every 5 years).

The 1D with its high-speed shooting and medium resolution sensor appears to be aimed at photojournalists and sports photographers... "Almost the resolution of a D1x" and "high-speed performance of a D1h" (yes, I know the 1D's faster, but the buffer's smaller-- in general terms I think it's a fair statement), but all in one body.

So if Canon's taking the line that they want to produce as few different models of pro body as possible (ideally, one), which makes sense from a business perspective.

The reason I'm saying this is it seems pretty clear to me that there has been some sort of trouble in CMOS-land. Canon, known for firsts such as the EF mount (no mechanical linkages), USM, FTM (full-time manual focusing), IS, eye-controlled focusing, and the (as yet unproven, unseen) DO (diffractive-optic) elements. It only seems natural that Canon'd be a pioneer experimenting with CMOS in the D30 (and got it right IMHO).

My guess is that Canon tried to scale it up to 4MP or 6MP or a 1.0x multiplier, but ran into problems of some kind... So after much arguing, hair-pulling and pie-throwing, they decided to abandon CMOS (for now) and go with CCD to get the (already late) product out the door.

Which brings me to my point. Taking these factors into account, is it possible that they designed the camera (both mechanically and electronically) to have an upgradeable sensor? The idea being, that in hopefully not-too-distant future, Canon will produce a larger/higher resolution sensor (hopefully CMOS-- think battery power), but won't want to introduce ANOTHER EOS-1V-based digicam (cost). Why not offer the sensor as a $2000 upgrade for 4MP EOS-1D owners and have EOS-1D's available pre-configured in either combination? Costs will be lower by having to design, manufacture and maintain fewer complete product lines, yet they can charge the same selling price as they would if the camera weren't modular.

If this were true, it would make the price tag of investing in the camera as a "platform" rather than as a single body easier to stomach...

What are your thoughts?
bradley phillip

 

[Pepe]

Which brings me to my point. Taking these factors into account, is
it possible that they designed the camera (both mechanically and
electronically) to have an upgradeable sensor? The idea being,
that in hopefully not-too-distant future, Canon will produce a
larger/higher resolution sensor (hopefully CMOS-- think battery
power), but won't want to introduce ANOTHER EOS-1V-based digicam
(cost). Why not offer the sensor as a $2000 upgrade for 4MP EOS-1D
owners and have EOS-1D's available pre-configured in either
combination? Costs will be lower by having to design, manufacture
and maintain fewer complete product lines, yet they can charge the
same selling price as they would if the camera weren't modular.

If this were true, it would make the price tag of investing in the
camera as a "platform" rather than as a single body easier to
stomach...

What are your thoughts?

I am sure that they have thought of that - however, instead of selling the sensor independently for $2000, why not bundle it with the same body as the 1D and increase the buffer to allow 30 shots and then sell it for $7000-8000? Less manufacturing cost for them since the body is the same. ;-) [has been done by another manufacturer before heheh]

 

[Hammy #54417]

I think that when Canon makes their official announcement, we'll all be jumping for joy with the news of the incorporation of a FCCD - Flip CCD. Just remove the back of the camera and turn the CCD around - now it is a 6.2Mpix CCD.

The downside is a smaller buffer due to larger images and slower FPS - but we won't complain, will we?

Otherwise, I do believe that Canon will provide a large sensor version in the first quarter. I think they have done a justice to their large following of sports photogs in releasing this one first...

Time will tell...unless Canon opens their mouths first!

 

[JCDoss]

I think that when Canon makes their official announcement, we'll
all be jumping for joy with the news of the incorporation of a FCCD

• Flip CCD. Just remove the back of the camera and turn the CCD

around - now it is a 6.2Mpix CCD.

The downside is a smaller buffer due to larger images and slower
FPS - but we won't complain, will we?

Are you being serious? Does such a thing exist? News to me.

JCDoss

 

[bradley phillip]

I agree.

If it makes sense to upgrade the imaging subsystem (incl. RAM), then that's fine-- it's the idea that you're not paying what looks like near $7000 for a 4MP CCD body, you're paying to get into a platform which will (eventually) have some options available to different types of photographers.

bradley phillp

Which brings me to my point. Taking these factors into account, is
it possible that they designed the camera (both mechanically and
electronically) to have an upgradeable sensor? The idea being,
that in hopefully not-too-distant future, Canon will produce a
larger/higher resolution sensor (hopefully CMOS-- think battery
power), but won't want to introduce ANOTHER EOS-1V-based digicam
(cost). Why not offer the sensor as a $2000 upgrade for 4MP EOS-1D
owners and have EOS-1D's available pre-configured in either
combination? Costs will be lower by having to design, manufacture
and maintain fewer complete product lines, yet they can charge the
same selling price as they would if the camera weren't modular.

If this were true, it would make the price tag of investing in the
camera as a "platform" rather than as a single body easier to
stomach...

What are your thoughts?

I am sure that they have thought of that - however, instead of
selling the sensor independently for $2000, why not bundle it with
the same body as the 1D and increase the buffer to allow 30 shots
and then sell it for $7000-8000? Less manufacturing cost for them
since the body is the same. ;-) [has been done by another
manufacturer before heheh]

 

[RichW]

My God. You are stirred into such a frenzy that you are missing the jokes...

I think that when Canon makes their official announcement, we'll
all be jumping for joy with the news of the incorporation of a FCCD

• Flip CCD. Just remove the back of the camera and turn the CCD

around - now it is a 6.2Mpix CCD.

The downside is a smaller buffer due to larger images and slower
FPS - but we won't complain, will we?

Are you being serious? Does such a thing exist? News to me.

JCDoss

 

[JCDoss]

...it's the idea that you're not paying what looks
like near $7000 for a 4MP CCD body...

If $7000 is the MSRP, then don't think that $7000 will actually leave your wallet. Street prices are usually between 50-70% of MSRPs. For example, the 70-200IS has an MSRP of $3000, but DavidP bought one for $1800 (and missed some lasagna while doing a million tests on it). If that trend is the same for the 1D, expect to pay $4K.

JCDoss

 

[Patrick Hayden]

if you install the FCCD back in the 1d at a 90 deg. angle you can then take portrate photos without having to hold the Cam. in the hard to control port. angle!

I think that when Canon makes their official announcement, we'll
all be jumping for joy with the news of the incorporation of a FCCD

• Flip CCD. Just remove the back of the camera and turn the CCD

around - now it is a 6.2Mpix CCD.

The downside is a smaller buffer due to larger images and slower
FPS - but we won't complain, will we?

Otherwise, I do believe that Canon will provide a large sensor
version in the first quarter. I think they have done a justice to
their large following of sports photogs in releasing this one
first...

Time will tell...unless Canon opens their mouths first!

 

[Chris Epler]

if you install the FCCD back in the 1d at a 90 deg. angle you can
then take portrate photos without having to hold the Cam. in the
hard to control port. angle!

If you install 2 FCCD's you can do 3D photos too!

 

[Will Robinson]

Can I rotate it slightly and do away with tilt shift lenses too ??

 

[Paul Pope]

I don't know about the upgrades but I do know Canon had a 6.6mp CMOS

version of this camera in fact up until 5 weeks ago this was what I thought they were going to release.

No rumours here, just a thought.

Neither Canon nor the photo industry as a whole tends to bring out
top-of the line professional models of camera very frequently (on
the order of every 5 years).

The 1D with its high-speed shooting and medium resolution sensor
appears to be aimed at photojournalists and sports photographers...
"Almost the resolution of a D1x" and "high-speed performance of a
D1h" (yes, I know the 1D's faster, but the buffer's smaller-- in
general terms I think it's a fair statement), but all in one body.

So if Canon's taking the line that they want to produce as few
different models of pro body as possible (ideally, one), which
makes sense from a business perspective.

The reason I'm saying this is it seems pretty clear to me that
there has been some sort of trouble in CMOS-land. Canon, known for
firsts such as the EF mount (no mechanical linkages), USM, FTM
(full-time manual focusing), IS, eye-controlled focusing, and the
(as yet unproven, unseen) DO (diffractive-optic) elements. It only
seems natural that Canon'd be a pioneer experimenting with CMOS in
the D30 (and got it right IMHO).

My guess is that Canon tried to scale it up to 4MP or 6MP or a
1.0x multiplier, but ran into problems of some kind... So after
much arguing, hair-pulling and pie-throwing, they decided to
abandon CMOS (for now) and go with CCD to get the (already late)
product out the door.

Which brings me to my point. Taking these factors into account, is
it possible that they designed the camera (both mechanically and
electronically) to have an upgradeable sensor? The idea being,
that in hopefully not-too-distant future, Canon will produce a
larger/higher resolution sensor (hopefully CMOS-- think battery
power), but won't want to introduce ANOTHER EOS-1V-based digicam
(cost). Why not offer the sensor as a $2000 upgrade for 4MP EOS-1D
owners and have EOS-1D's available pre-configured in either
combination? Costs will be lower by having to design, manufacture
and maintain fewer complete product lines, yet they can charge the
same selling price as they would if the camera weren't modular.

If this were true, it would make the price tag of investing in the
camera as a "platform" rather than as a single body easier to
stomach...

What are your thoughts?
bradley phillip

 

[Kai Pin47209]

The reason I'm saying this is it seems pretty clear to me that
there has been some sort of trouble in CMOS-land. Canon, known for
firsts such as the EF mount (no mechanical linkages), USM, FTM
(full-time manual focusing), IS, eye-controlled focusing, and the
(as yet unproven, unseen) DO (diffractive-optic) elements. It only
seems natural that Canon'd be a pioneer experimenting with CMOS in
the D30 (and got it right IMHO).

My guess is that Canon tried to scale it up to 4MP or 6MP or a
1.0x multiplier, but ran into problems of some kind... So after
much arguing, hair-pulling and pie-throwing, they decided to
abandon CMOS (for now) and go with CCD to get the (already late)
product out the door.

The primary aim is to satisfy the needs of the sports and news shooters first. The need for the rest can come later, like Photokina 2002 or PMA Show 2003.

Most of the features on the 1D, although mouth-watering, are not exactly earth-shattering since most of them are already available in the analog EOS-1V and Nikon's D1H/D1X (1/16,000 top speed and 1/500 sec x-sync).

But the most evolutionary feature of all is the simultaneous recording of both RAW and JPEG files each time the shutter is being released -- no need to choose which format to shoot beforehand. How's that?

Plus a new Canon software to take advantage of the Firewire IEEE 1394 connection that offers 400 kbs downloading.

Kai Pin

 

[Z (is real)]

But the most evolutionary feature of all is the simultaneous
recording of both RAW and JPEG files each time the shutter is being
released -- no need to choose which format to shoot beforehand.
How's that?

It rocks. A truly simple but great idea. As I was saying to some other folks in another thread. I look forward to seeing it on future Canon models that are more geared towards my market. (Full frame or lower price. Less shooting speed, little need for full-on sealing and ruggedness.)

Plus a new Canon software to take advantage of the Firewire IEEE
1394 connection that offers 400 kbs downloading.

I suppose. I'm much happier just putting the microdrive in a laptop directly.

-Z-