Israel/Palestinian problem explained.

[Oren]

Hello All !

Since there are a lot of American readers in this forum, I've decided to write a little thing that would explain why the Palestinians are liars and blood thirsty.

I will begin at 47- that year the UN decided to end the British mandate and divide Israel into 2, one would belong to Jewish people the other to the Arabs.

48- Israel decaled independence, British army leaves the country.

On 14 May, 1948, the State of Israel was proclaimed according to the UN
Partition plan (1947). Less than 24 hours later, the regular armies of

Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq invaded the country, forcing Israel to defend the sovereignty it had regained in its ancestral homeland.

I must add that that’s only 4 years or so since the tragic holocaust.
The Jewish population in Israel was 600,000.

Luckily Israel prevailed. (6000 Israelis died in that war. 1% of the population)

Now the 56 war is explained here:
gopher: israel-info.gov.il/00/facts/history/state/h5c

The 67 war explained here:
gopher: israel-info.gov.il/00/facts/history/state/h5e

Now the worst war Israel had to protect itself was in my opinion the 73 war.
That day Egypt and Syrian armies attacked Israel on the holiest day of the Jews.

This is explained here:
gopher: israel-info.gov.il/00/facts/history/state/h5f

The rest you can read here:
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/history/israel.html

Israel doesn’t owe the Arabs anything. They lost land when they were hostile.

Why didn’t the Palestinian ask Jordon till 67 for a country? (One reason is that they would be shot and killed with no mercy)

So how come BIG Israel is “killing” the Palestinians as CNN shows us?

Well… It’s all a lie; CNN shows the public what they want you to see.

If Israel really wanted to kill the Palestinians, do you really think it would be such a problem?

Well it is… after all they are people as we are, well maybe less educated and brain washed with hatred but still.

So when there is information of some Arab “brain” is training, preparing and executing terror attacks on Israel, well I think it’s only fair he should be eliminated.

But why isn’t Israel talking with the Palestinians? That’s really evil no? Well no, not more then a year ago, under the leadership of Ehud Barak the elected prime minister at that time, Israel offered the Palestinians a generous proposal. In fact I think it’s a proposal that they didn’t deserve.

The proposal agreed Israel will withdraw from most parts of the west bank, more then half of Jerusalem will be given to the Palestinians, and they would be allowed to declare a country.

Sounds perfect right? well I guess it was for the Palestinians, but history showed us that the Arabs like kids can’t settle to less then the whole.

They wanted the right of return to Palestinians from around the world to Israel (not the Palestinian part) that’s around 3,000,000 Palestinians that would be able to go back to Yafo … (near Tel-Aviv) and others areas that are not west bank.

Now what sense does that make? Why would Israel agree to the return of Palestinians to its part when there is a Palestinian country?

Why would the Palestinians even want to be under Israeli rules when they have their new fresh country?

Well its simple, Arabs make lots and lots of babies. Israelis usually have 1 or 2 maybe 3.

It would take 10 years and what is called Israel wouldn’t be Israel as we know it but another Arabic country.

Since then Arafat the murder as subjected both Israelis and his “people” to extreme torture.

Yes the Palestinians are probably suffering. Is it Israel’s fault? Not at all.

It’s really tragic that the Palestinians have such shitty leadership. But again, it’s not Israel’s fault.

When we teach our kids at school songs of peace, they teach their children how to fight and hate (not only Israel, but US and others)

They are breading a new generation of terrorists. That is the reason why all of us have seen the joy of little “poor” Palestinian kids when the WTC was attacked.

Another sad truth about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is that families are rewarded by other Arab countries (Iraq) when their kids are either wounded or killed. (as far as I know it’s $1000 for a wound and $2000 dollars for a life that’s lost)

Where every single one of the Israelis would be delighted to live in peace with its Arab neighbors, I wouldn’t say the same on the Arabs, I wish I could.

Another interesting fact not many Americans know: Israel is the only true democracy in the Middle East.

There are a couple of other reasons why Israel is just:
• Arabs have many nations. Jews have only one.

• Egypt and Syria and Jordon have so much land. What reason did they have to be hostile against Israel? (sheer hate)

I urge Americans to remember that Israel is the U.S only true friend in the all area.

I invite anyone to disagree with me.

Let me send my deep condolences to all of us Americans, may we never see more sorrow. Be Strong!

Oren.

P.S I’m sorry if this is off the subjects of photography, but I had to speak. Also excuse any spelling mistakes.

 

[Sungshine]

At this point, anything Isreal decides to do in the West Bank would most likely receive zero resistance from the U.S. What most arabs have failed to realize is that although U.S. and Isreal are allies, the U.S. has been a tempering influence... if not for concern over U.S. disapproval, the Isreali army probably would have mowed the entire region by now.

Hopefully, in light of the new war, the U.S. will be too busy to concern itself over what the Isrealis are doing in the West Bank. History is not without its sense of irony.

 

[sparkyrwb]

Thanks for the perspective. That is pretty much the way I had sized it up. If there is a solution, I believe the Palestinians will have to move somewhere else. Still, you will be fighting for your very existence on a daily basis.

Hello All !

Since there are a lot of American readers in this forum, I've
decided to write a little thing that would explain why the
Palestinians are liars and blood thirsty.

I will begin at 47- that year the UN decided to end the British
mandate and divide Israel into 2, one would belong to Jewish
people the other to the Arabs.

48- Israel decaled independence, British army leaves the country.

On 14 May, 1948, the State of Israel was proclaimed according to
the UN
Partition plan (1947). Less than 24 hours later, the regular
armies of
Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq invaded the country, forcing
Israel to defend the sovereignty it had regained in its ancestral
homeland.

I must add that that’s only 4 years or so since the tragic holocaust.
The Jewish population in Israel was 600,000.

Luckily Israel prevailed. (6000 Israelis died in that war. 1% of
the population)

Now the 56 war is explained here:
gopher: israel-info.gov.il/00/facts/history/state/h5c

The 67 war explained here:
gopher: israel-info.gov.il/00/facts/history/state/h5e

Now the worst war Israel had to protect itself was in my opinion
the 73 war.
That day Egypt and Syrian armies attacked Israel on the holiest day
of the Jews.

This is explained here:
gopher: israel-info.gov.il/00/facts/history/state/h5f

The rest you can read here:
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/history/israel.html

Israel doesn’t owe the Arabs anything. They lost land when they
were hostile.

Why didn’t the Palestinian ask Jordon till 67 for a country? (One
reason is that they would be shot and killed with no mercy)

So how come BIG Israel is “killing” the Palestinians as CNN shows us?

Well… It’s all a lie; CNN shows the public what they want you to see.
If Israel really wanted to kill the Palestinians, do you really
think it would be such a problem?
Well it is… after all they are people as we are, well maybe less
educated and brain washed with hatred but still.

So when there is information of some Arab “brain” is training,
preparing and executing terror attacks on Israel, well I think it’s
only fair he should be eliminated.

But why isn’t Israel talking with the Palestinians? That’s really
evil no? Well no, not more then a year ago, under the leadership
of Ehud Barak the elected prime minister at that time, Israel
offered the Palestinians a generous proposal. In fact I think it’s
a proposal that they didn’t deserve.

The proposal agreed Israel will withdraw from most parts of the
west bank, more then half of Jerusalem will be given to the
Palestinians, and they would be allowed to declare a country.

Sounds perfect right? well I guess it was for the Palestinians, but
history showed us that the Arabs like kids can’t settle to less
then the whole.

They wanted the right of return to Palestinians from around the
world to Israel (not the Palestinian part) that’s around 3,000,000
Palestinians that would be able to go back to Yafo … (near
Tel-Aviv) and others areas that are not west bank.

Now what sense does that make? Why would Israel agree to the
return of Palestinians to its part when there is a Palestinian
country?
Why would the Palestinians even want to be under Israeli rules when
they have their new fresh country?

Well its simple, Arabs make lots and lots of babies. Israelis
usually have 1 or 2 maybe 3.
It would take 10 years and what is called Israel wouldn’t be Israel
as we know it but another Arabic country.

Since then Arafat the murder as subjected both Israelis and his
“people” to extreme torture.

Yes the Palestinians are probably suffering. Is it Israel’s fault?
Not at all.

It’s really tragic that the Palestinians have such shitty
leadership. But again, it’s not Israel’s fault.

When we teach our kids at school songs of peace, they teach their
children how to fight and hate (not only Israel, but US and others)
They are breading a new generation of terrorists. That is the
reason why all of us have seen the joy of little “poor” Palestinian
kids when the WTC was attacked.

Another sad truth about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is that
families are rewarded by other Arab countries (Iraq) when their
kids are either wounded or killed. (as far as I know it’s $1000 for
a wound and $2000 dollars for a life that’s lost)

Where every single one of the Israelis would be delighted to live
in peace with its Arab neighbors, I wouldn’t say the same on the
Arabs, I wish I could.

Another interesting fact not many Americans know: Israel is the
only true democracy in the Middle East.

There are a couple of other reasons why Israel is just:
• Arabs have many nations. Jews have only one.
• Egypt and Syria and Jordon have so much land. What reason did
they have to be hostile against Israel? (sheer hate)

I urge Americans to remember that Israel is the U.S only true
friend in the all area.

I invite anyone to disagree with me.

Let me send my deep condolences to all of us Americans, may we
never see more sorrow. Be Strong!

Oren.

P.S I’m sorry if this is off the subjects of photography, but I had
to speak. Also excuse any spelling mistakes.

 

[hatem tawfik]

Thanks for the perspective. That is pretty much the way I had
sized it up. If there is a solution, I believe the Palestinians
will have to move somewhere else

An excellent perspective and an ingenious solution to the problem, where have you guys been all these years. I see from this forum that these views are shared by the vast majority of americans.

The way I see it, prior to 1948 there was something called Palestine, some people came from Russia and stole this land, now there is nothing called Palestine.They were robbed of their own land. and now you say they have to get the hell out.

while we acknowledge the rights of the Sefardi jews ( eastern jews) to live peacefully among us as they have for the past 2000 years, we can not accept the notion that descendants of the KHAZAR empire who have turned into judaism ONLY in the 8th century AD to come proclaiming rights in a land that was never theirs, just because europe rejected them. The vast majority of jews in the world now are not even semites, they are hamites;of turkish origin.

and for those of who of think I am idiot spreading venomous lies, please read the Book entitled ' the thirteenth tribe' by a jewish british scholar called arthur Koestler. I am not inventing this, There is a more recent book suBstantiating the same facts By an american scholar called Dunlop ( in Columbia University) But I dont know the name of the book I dont own it.

By the way the first one who spoke about the Khazar ( or Kazar) empire was Ibn Fadlan. those of who who watch movies a lot will know that Ibn Fadlan was ' THE THIRTEENTH WARRIOR', But the movie speaks about a different segment of his life ( doesnt the number ring a bell)

There is nothing wrong in Belonging to this GREAT empire at all because they were GREAT fighters, had a thriving civilisation, they stood up LIKE GREAT MEN against the muslims and the Byzantine empire for centuries even before conversion to Judaism, and their capital was a thriving economic centre of the world like NewYork today until they were swept by Ghengiz Khan, and migrated to Poland and Russia.

Modern Jews reject these facts or 'lies' if you want to call them because it voids anti-semitism of its meaning, and strips them of alleged historical rights in places they dont belong to.

I will not contribute to this particular thread again so as not to start another war, as this is not my intention.

and by the way these are soley my views and are not the views held By the majority or even the minority of the muslim world Becuase unfortunately nobody here knows about Koestler or Dunlop.

Hatem

 

[Jerry57537]

What a bunch of Hogwash!!! Do you really expect people to believe this garbage....

Thanks for the perspective. That is pretty much the way I had
sized it up. If there is a solution, I believe the Palestinians
will have to move somewhere else

An excellent perspective and an ingenious solution to the problem,
where have you guys been all these years. I see from this forum
that these views are shared by the vast majority of americans.
The way I see it, prior to 1948 there was something called
Palestine, some people came from Russia and stole this land, now
there is nothing called Palestine.They were robbed of their own
land. and now you say they have to get the hell out.
while we acknowledge the rights of the Sefardi jews ( eastern jews)
to live peacefully among us as they have for the past 2000 years,
we can not accept the notion that descendants of the KHAZAR empire
who have turned into judaism ONLY in the 8th century AD to come
proclaiming rights in a land that was never theirs, just because
europe rejected them. The vast majority of jews in the world now
are not even semites, they are hamites;of turkish origin.

and for those of who of think I am idiot spreading venomous lies,
please read the Book entitled ' the thirteenth tribe' by a jewish
british scholar called arthur Koestler. I am not inventing this,
There is a more recent book suBstantiating the same facts By an
american scholar called Dunlop ( in Columbia University) But I dont
know the name of the book I dont own it.

By the way the first one who spoke about the Khazar ( or Kazar)
empire was Ibn Fadlan. those of who who watch movies a lot will
know that Ibn Fadlan was ' THE THIRTEENTH WARRIOR', But the movie
speaks about a different segment of his life ( doesnt the number
ring a bell)
There is nothing wrong in Belonging to this GREAT empire at all
because they were GREAT fighters, had a thriving civilisation, they
stood up LIKE GREAT MEN against the muslims and the Byzantine
empire for centuries even before conversion to Judaism, and their
capital was a thriving economic centre of the world like NewYork
today until they were swept by Ghengiz Khan, and migrated to Poland
and Russia.
Modern Jews reject these facts or 'lies' if you want to call them
because it voids anti-semitism of its meaning, and strips them of
alleged historical rights in places they dont belong to.
I will not contribute to this particular thread again so as not to
start another war, as this is not my intention.
and by the way these are soley my views and are not the views held
By the majority or even the minority of the muslim world Becuase
unfortunately nobody here knows about Koestler or Dunlop.

Hatem

 

[Jerry57537]

I agree with you Oren, Israel is the only TRUE friend of the U.S. in the mideast. The rest have been hypocrits.........Now Israel will join the U.S. in helping to wipe out these Terroristic Barbarians... Every time I see the pictures of the Towers falling, the people looking for the loved ones, and the people that have died, I get somber and then I get a burning anger inside. We can not and will not tolerate this.

Hello All !

Since there are a lot of American readers in this forum, I've
decided to write a little thing that would explain why the
Palestinians are liars and blood thirsty.

I will begin at 47- that year the UN decided to end the British
mandate and divide Israel into 2, one would belong to Jewish
people the other to the Arabs.

48- Israel decaled independence, British army leaves the country.

On 14 May, 1948, the State of Israel was proclaimed according to
the UN
Partition plan (1947). Less than 24 hours later, the regular
armies of
Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq invaded the country, forcing
Israel to defend the sovereignty it had regained in its ancestral
homeland.

I must add that that’s only 4 years or so since the tragic holocaust.
The Jewish population in Israel was 600,000.

Luckily Israel prevailed. (6000 Israelis died in that war. 1% of
the population)

Now the 56 war is explained here:
gopher: israel-info.gov.il/00/facts/history/state/h5c

The 67 war explained here:
gopher: israel-info.gov.il/00/facts/history/state/h5e

Now the worst war Israel had to protect itself was in my opinion
the 73 war.
That day Egypt and Syrian armies attacked Israel on the holiest day
of the Jews.

This is explained here:
gopher: israel-info.gov.il/00/facts/history/state/h5f

The rest you can read here:
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/history/israel.html

Israel doesn’t owe the Arabs anything. They lost land when they
were hostile.

Why didn’t the Palestinian ask Jordon till 67 for a country? (One
reason is that they would be shot and killed with no mercy)

So how come BIG Israel is “killing” the Palestinians as CNN shows us?

Well… It’s all a lie; CNN shows the public what they want you to see.
If Israel really wanted to kill the Palestinians, do you really
think it would be such a problem?
Well it is… after all they are people as we are, well maybe less
educated and brain washed with hatred but still.

So when there is information of some Arab “brain” is training,
preparing and executing terror attacks on Israel, well I think it’s
only fair he should be eliminated.

But why isn’t Israel talking with the Palestinians? That’s really
evil no? Well no, not more then a year ago, under the leadership
of Ehud Barak the elected prime minister at that time, Israel
offered the Palestinians a generous proposal. In fact I think it’s
a proposal that they didn’t deserve.

The proposal agreed Israel will withdraw from most parts of the
west bank, more then half of Jerusalem will be given to the
Palestinians, and they would be allowed to declare a country.

Sounds perfect right? well I guess it was for the Palestinians, but
history showed us that the Arabs like kids can’t settle to less
then the whole.

They wanted the right of return to Palestinians from around the
world to Israel (not the Palestinian part) that’s around 3,000,000
Palestinians that would be able to go back to Yafo … (near
Tel-Aviv) and others areas that are not west bank.

Now what sense does that make? Why would Israel agree to the
return of Palestinians to its part when there is a Palestinian
country?
Why would the Palestinians even want to be under Israeli rules when
they have their new fresh country?

Well its simple, Arabs make lots and lots of babies. Israelis
usually have 1 or 2 maybe 3.
It would take 10 years and what is called Israel wouldn’t be Israel
as we know it but another Arabic country.

Since then Arafat the murder as subjected both Israelis and his
“people” to extreme torture.

Yes the Palestinians are probably suffering. Is it Israel’s fault?
Not at all.

It’s really tragic that the Palestinians have such shitty
leadership. But again, it’s not Israel’s fault.

When we teach our kids at school songs of peace, they teach their
children how to fight and hate (not only Israel, but US and others)
They are breading a new generation of terrorists. That is the
reason why all of us have seen the joy of little “poor” Palestinian
kids when the WTC was attacked.

Another sad truth about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is that
families are rewarded by other Arab countries (Iraq) when their
kids are either wounded or killed. (as far as I know it’s $1000 for
a wound and $2000 dollars for a life that’s lost)

Where every single one of the Israelis would be delighted to live
in peace with its Arab neighbors, I wouldn’t say the same on the
Arabs, I wish I could.

Another interesting fact not many Americans know: Israel is the
only true democracy in the Middle East.

There are a couple of other reasons why Israel is just:
• Arabs have many nations. Jews have only one.
• Egypt and Syria and Jordon have so much land. What reason did
they have to be hostile against Israel? (sheer hate)

I urge Americans to remember that Israel is the U.S only true
friend in the all area.

I invite anyone to disagree with me.

Let me send my deep condolences to all of us Americans, may we
never see more sorrow. Be Strong!

Oren.

P.S I’m sorry if this is off the subjects of photography, but I had
to speak. Also excuse any spelling mistakes.

 

[hatem tawfik]

Buy the Book from Amazon and read it first, By considering it garBage Before reading it you are acting like the iranians who sentenced Salman Rushdi to death without reading the book. Here is the link at Amazon's

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0394402847/qid=1000588721/sr=2-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/103-5945143-9570203

PS: I dont see any semites in the middle east with yellow hair, the vast majority of my jewish friends look more like europeans than arabs. Havent you ever thought of that

Jerry wrote:
Do you really expect people to believe
this garbage....

 

[hatem tawfik]

http://r1.us.rmi.yahoo.com/rmi/http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp/rmivars%3ftarget=_top?userid=18180VUTPB&mscssid=E5VND9JBC8189LC46JX2DGP8MJLP2NAD&isbn=0939482568

Regards
Hatem Tawfik

 

[Jerry57537]

No thank you I don't waste my money on GARBAGE. You will soon see the wrath of the United States.. I never said that Jews look like Arabs. There is a big difference there... And there are Jews in Israel with blonde hair but what does that have to do with this anyway. Matter is Terrorists supported by many of the Arab countries used our planes and our civilians as missles to destroy the WTC and damage the Pentagon. They already know who is supporting these terrorists and the guilty will pay bigtime. There are alot of these Arab terrorists in the U.S. now and the FBI is working hard to arrest as many as they can.. AMERICAS MOST WANTED is going to have a 2 hour show tonite and show pictures. ...Better hope they don't put yours up!!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0394402847/qid=1000588721/sr=2-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/103-5945143-9570203

PS: I dont see any semites in the middle east with yellow hair, the
vast majority of my jewish friends look more like europeans than
arabs. Havent you ever thought of that

Jerry wrote:
Do you really expect people to believe
this garbage....

 

[Peter G]

This has been hotly contested land for all recorded history. Perhaps we should return to Roman times when this area was Christian:

Umayyad caliph, Umar II (717-720), imposed humiliating restrictions on his non-Muslim subjects that led many to convert to Islam. These conversions, in addition to a steady tribal flow from the desert, changed the religious character of the inhabitants of Palestine from Christian to Muslim. Under the Abbasids the process of Islamization gained added momentum as a result of further restrictions imposed on non-Muslims by Harun ar Rashid (786-809) and more particularly by Al Mutawakkil (847-61).

Then there were Crusades:

In 1100 the Crusaders established the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem, which remained until the famous Muslim general Salah ad Din (Saladin) defeated them at the decisive Battle of Hattin in 1187. The Crusaders were not completely evicted from Palestine, however, until 1291 when they were driven out of Acre. The fourteenth and fifteenth centuries were a "dark age" for Palestine as a result of Mamluk misrule and the spread of several epidemics. The Mamluks were slave-soldiers who established a dynasty that ruled Egypt and Syria, which included Palestine, from 1250 to 1516.

In 1516 the Ottoman Turks, led by Sultan Selim I, routed the Mamluks, and Palestine began four centuries under Ottoman domination. Under the Ottomans, Palestine continued to be linked administratively to Damascus until 1830, when it was placed under Sidon, then under Acre, then once again under Damascus.

For the first three centuries of Ottoman rule, Palestine was relatively insulated from outside influences. At the end of the eighteenth century, Napoleon's abortive attempt to establish a Middle East empire led to increased Western involvement in Palestine. The trend toward Western influence accelerated during the nine years (1831-40) that the Egyptian viceroy Muhammad Ali and his son Ibrahim ruled Palestine. The Ottomans returned to power in 1840 with the help of the British, Austrians, and Russians. For the remainder of the nineteenth century, Palestine, despite the growth of Christian missionary schools and the establishment of European consulates, remained a mainly rural, poor but self-sufficient, introverted society. Demographically its population was overwhelmingly Arab, mainly Muslim, but with an important Christian merchant and professional class residing in the cities. The Jewish population of Palestine before 1880 consisted of fewer than 25,000 people, two-thirds of whom lived in Jerusalem where they made up half the population (and from 1890 on more than half the population). These were Orthodox Jews (see Glossary), many of whom had immigrated to Palestine simply to be buried in the Holy Land, and who had no real political interest in establishing a Jewish entity.

I don't think 1948 is a single date of contention.

 

[Marcel-Etienne]

Hatem,

Of course the information you gave here is quite accurate (it can even be found in the Encyclopaedia Britannica and several history books), don't think that nobody believes you, but they are just blinded by anger and hatred.

And yes, this is a very unknown part of Jewish history, largely hidden or minimized because it certainly gives another, very colonial, perspective to events that took place in Palestine in the course of this century. But don't bother to tell them, they won't listen...

And as you probably now, something like 40% of the people who came from the remains of the Soviet Empire after 1990 were not even Jews (converted or not), but Russians who were emigrating for economic reasons. So much for the right to go back to a millenary motherland.
Yours
Marcel-Etienne

http://r1.us.rmi.yahoo.com/rmi/http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp/rmivars%3ftarget=_top?userid=18180VUTPB&mscssid=E5VND9JBC8189LC46JX2DGP8MJLP2NAD&isbn=0939482568

Regards
Hatem Tawfik

 

[Rob Patterson]

There used to be a news commentator. Sorry to say, I can't remember his name. Suffice to say that he would announce and event that occured in the world recently and then say ......"and now the rest of the story".

I'm not gonna get into a complete disertation on the Jewish/Palestinian story. Much of it I've forgotton. My mother's side of the family is Jewish and they're great relatives. So prejudice against Jewish people is not a factor in what I'm about to say.

The land that the Palestinians received was almost completely uninabitable. It had only a meager water supply.

There was an "Ox-Bow" incident that occured where Jewish vigilantes attacked and took that meager water supply. They were not supported by the Israeli government. In fact they were jailed by Israel and tried and convicted. However, the meager water supply was not returned.

You couldn't grow a damned dandelion on the waterless land the Palestinians were stuck with.

A large number of the Palestinians saw the fruitlessness of remaining. Many left. Quite a few ended up in Lebanon. A civil war ensued. The Palestinians who weren't involved were told they had to leave. Politics. Won't elaborate. Complete info is available. Do a search.
The Palestinians have received a complete screwing almost every step of the way.

I'll tell you what. If I'd been treated as badly as they had with no hope to survive in a rock hard waterless soil, I'd try to find a way out. Otherwise, I'd pick up a rifle and start shooting. I wouldn't start bombing innocent civilians. Then again one never knows. Ten years on a rock with a bit of token water dealt out by people who stole it to begin with? No shelter? Crap for food? Conditions like that can warp a persons mind. It obviously has done so to many.

We really need to look more completely at the countries we are going into. Understanding the enemy is the first step in dealing with them.
It's a complicated situation that I don't think will ever be completely solved.

 

[Marcel-Etienne56998]

Thank you, Peter, you beat me on this one! (I had just planned to make some similar comment when I read your message). Indeed the origins of Palestine are extremely intricate, and as far as modern historical science can go back, it always was a land where several populations sometimes coexisted, sometimes fought, sometimes converted... Even according to the Bible, the Jews did not enter an empty land when they settled in Palestine (at a much later date than officially recorded, as archaelogy has recently proved beyond any doubt).

So Palestinians are AT LEAST as much the descendants of previous populations of the Holy Land as are the Jews who colonized it in the course of the 20th century.

Now Israel has been in existence for more than 50 years and there is no going back on this (as most Palestinians have at last come to realize), so the question is when will Israel understand that for their own long term survival they really need to give back ALL the occupied territories (which by international law do not even belong to them) and to make peace wholeheartedly? (despite some lip-service, there has been little evidence of any sincerity from their part, since Sharon became Prime Minister) Pacific cohabitation with the Palestinians may be extremely difficult to achieve in the short term, after so many years of mutual hatred, but it is of vital importance for the future of the Jews in the Holy Land, as the most enlightened Israelis readily tell in confidence...
Marcel-Etienne

This has been hotly contested land for all recorded history.
Perhaps we should return to Roman times when this area was
Christian:

Umayyad caliph, Umar II (717-720), imposed humiliating restrictions
on his non-Muslim subjects that led many to convert to Islam. These
conversions, in addition to a steady tribal flow from the desert,
changed the religious character of the inhabitants of Palestine
from Christian to Muslim. Under the Abbasids the process of
Islamization gained added momentum as a result of further
restrictions imposed on non-Muslims by Harun ar Rashid (786-809)
and more particularly by Al Mutawakkil (847-61).

Then there were Crusades:

In 1100 the Crusaders established the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem,
which remained until the famous Muslim general Salah ad Din
(Saladin) defeated them at the decisive Battle of Hattin in 1187.
The Crusaders were not completely evicted from Palestine, however,
until 1291 when they were driven out of Acre. The fourteenth and
fifteenth centuries were a "dark age" for Palestine as a result of
Mamluk misrule and the spread of several epidemics. The Mamluks
were slave-soldiers who established a dynasty that ruled Egypt and
Syria, which included Palestine, from 1250 to 1516.

In 1516 the Ottoman Turks, led by Sultan Selim I, routed the
Mamluks, and Palestine began four centuries under Ottoman
domination. Under the Ottomans, Palestine continued to be linked
administratively to Damascus until 1830, when it was placed under
Sidon, then under Acre, then once again under Damascus.

For the first three centuries of Ottoman rule, Palestine was
relatively insulated from outside influences. At the end of the
eighteenth century, Napoleon's abortive attempt to establish a
Middle East empire led to increased Western involvement in
Palestine. The trend toward Western influence accelerated during
the nine years (1831-40) that the Egyptian viceroy Muhammad Ali and
his son Ibrahim ruled Palestine. The Ottomans returned to power in
1840 with the help of the British, Austrians, and Russians. For the
remainder of the nineteenth century, Palestine, despite the growth
of Christian missionary schools and the establishment of European
consulates, remained a mainly rural, poor but self-sufficient,
introverted society. Demographically its population was
overwhelmingly Arab, mainly Muslim, but with an important Christian
merchant and professional class residing in the cities. The Jewish
population of Palestine before 1880 consisted of fewer than 25,000
people, two-thirds of whom lived in Jerusalem where they made up
half the population (and from 1890 on more than half the
population). These were Orthodox Jews (see Glossary), many of whom
had immigrated to Palestine simply to be buried in the Holy Land,
and who had no real political interest in establishing a Jewish
entity.

I don't think 1948 is a single date of contention.

 

[Jerry57537]

Yes and let's give Ben Ladin Manhatten and Long Island. I am sure trading land for peace would work for him too..

This has been hotly contested land for all recorded history.
Perhaps we should return to Roman times when this area was
Christian:

Umayyad caliph, Umar II (717-720), imposed humiliating restrictions
on his non-Muslim subjects that led many to convert to Islam. These
conversions, in addition to a steady tribal flow from the desert,
changed the religious character of the inhabitants of Palestine
from Christian to Muslim. Under the Abbasids the process of
Islamization gained added momentum as a result of further
restrictions imposed on non-Muslims by Harun ar Rashid (786-809)
and more particularly by Al Mutawakkil (847-61).

Then there were Crusades:

In 1100 the Crusaders established the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem,
which remained until the famous Muslim general Salah ad Din
(Saladin) defeated them at the decisive Battle of Hattin in 1187.
The Crusaders were not completely evicted from Palestine, however,
until 1291 when they were driven out of Acre. The fourteenth and
fifteenth centuries were a "dark age" for Palestine as a result of
Mamluk misrule and the spread of several epidemics. The Mamluks
were slave-soldiers who established a dynasty that ruled Egypt and
Syria, which included Palestine, from 1250 to 1516.

In 1516 the Ottoman Turks, led by Sultan Selim I, routed the
Mamluks, and Palestine began four centuries under Ottoman
domination. Under the Ottomans, Palestine continued to be linked
administratively to Damascus until 1830, when it was placed under
Sidon, then under Acre, then once again under Damascus.

For the first three centuries of Ottoman rule, Palestine was
relatively insulated from outside influences. At the end of the
eighteenth century, Napoleon's abortive attempt to establish a
Middle East empire led to increased Western involvement in
Palestine. The trend toward Western influence accelerated during
the nine years (1831-40) that the Egyptian viceroy Muhammad Ali and
his son Ibrahim ruled Palestine. The Ottomans returned to power in
1840 with the help of the British, Austrians, and Russians. For the
remainder of the nineteenth century, Palestine, despite the growth
of Christian missionary schools and the establishment of European
consulates, remained a mainly rural, poor but self-sufficient,
introverted society. Demographically its population was
overwhelmingly Arab, mainly Muslim, but with an important Christian
merchant and professional class residing in the cities. The Jewish
population of Palestine before 1880 consisted of fewer than 25,000
people, two-thirds of whom lived in Jerusalem where they made up
half the population (and from 1890 on more than half the
population). These were Orthodox Jews (see Glossary), many of whom
had immigrated to Palestine simply to be buried in the Holy Land,
and who had no real political interest in establishing a Jewish
entity.

I don't think 1948 is a single date of contention.

 

[Marcel-Etienne56998]

Thank you, Rob. It's high time some people gave sensible opinions on this matter. As a historian (who spent some years in Palestine as a child and remained very interested in these matters), I like to read good, accurate information, and what you have said is brief but basically true, I know it well. There is far too much hate and far too little understanding in many of the messages I have read so far.
Marcel-Etienne ?

There used to be a news commentator. Sorry to say, I can't remember
his name. Suffice to say that he would announce and event that
occured in the world recently and then say ......"and now the rest
of the story".
I'm not gonna get into a complete disertation on the
Jewish/Palestinian story. Much of it I've forgotton. My mother's
side of the family is Jewish and they're great relatives. So
prejudice against Jewish people is not a factor in what I'm about
to say.
The land that the Palestinians received was almost completely
uninabitable. It had only a meager water supply.
There was an "Ox-Bow" incident that occured where Jewish vigilantes
attacked and took that meager water supply. They were not supported
by the Israeli government. In fact they were jailed by Israel and
tried and convicted. However, the meager water supply was not
returned.
You couldn't grow a damned dandelion on the waterless land the
Palestinians were stuck with.
A large number of the Palestinians saw the fruitlessness of
remaining. Many left. Quite a few ended up in Lebanon. A civil war
ensued. The Palestinians who weren't involved were told they had to
leave. Politics. Won't elaborate. Complete info is available. Do a
search.
The Palestinians have received a complete screwing almost every
step of the way.
I'll tell you what. If I'd been treated as badly as they had with
no hope to survive in a rock hard waterless soil, I'd try to find a
way out. Otherwise, I'd pick up a rifle and start shooting. I
wouldn't start bombing innocent civilians. Then again one never
knows. Ten years on a rock with a bit of token water dealt out by
people who stole it to begin with? No shelter? Crap for food?
Conditions like that can warp a persons mind. It obviously has done
so to many.
We really need to look more completely at the countries we are
going into. Understanding the enemy is the first step in dealing
with them.
It's a complicated situation that I don't think will ever be
completely solved.

 

[Marcel-Etienne56998]

Hatem, I forgot to tell you but quite recently a jewish writer, Marek Halter, has published a novel about the Khazars... I don't know it's precise title in English, but in French it is "Le Vent des Khazars"...
Regards
Marcel-Etienne

http://r1.us.rmi.yahoo.com/rmi/http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp/rmivars%3ftarget=_top?userid=18180VUTPB&mscssid=E5VND9JBC8189LC46JX2DGP8MJLP2NAD&isbn=0939482568

Regards
Hatem Tawfik

 

[Bryan29453]

The truth is often quite a difficult pill to swallow.

Palestine belongs to the Palestinians or have you now re-written history to suit you as well?

and I am neither Jew nor Arab.

Thanks for the perspective. That is pretty much the way I had
sized it up. If there is a solution, I believe the Palestinians
will have to move somewhere else

An excellent perspective and an ingenious solution to the problem,
where have you guys been all these years. I see from this forum
that these views are shared by the vast majority of americans.
The way I see it, prior to 1948 there was something called
Palestine, some people came from Russia and stole this land, now
there is nothing called Palestine.They were robbed of their own
land. and now you say they have to get the hell out.
while we acknowledge the rights of the Sefardi jews ( eastern jews)
to live peacefully among us as they have for the past 2000 years,
we can not accept the notion that descendants of the KHAZAR empire
who have turned into judaism ONLY in the 8th century AD to come
proclaiming rights in a land that was never theirs, just because
europe rejected them. The vast majority of jews in the world now
are not even semites, they are hamites;of turkish origin.

and for those of who of think I am idiot spreading venomous lies,
please read the Book entitled ' the thirteenth tribe' by a jewish
british scholar called arthur Koestler. I am not inventing this,
There is a more recent book suBstantiating the same facts By an
american scholar called Dunlop ( in Columbia University) But I dont
know the name of the book I dont own it.

By the way the first one who spoke about the Khazar ( or Kazar)
empire was Ibn Fadlan. those of who who watch movies a lot will
know that Ibn Fadlan was ' THE THIRTEENTH WARRIOR', But the movie
speaks about a different segment of his life ( doesnt the number
ring a bell)
There is nothing wrong in Belonging to this GREAT empire at all
because they were GREAT fighters, had a thriving civilisation, they
stood up LIKE GREAT MEN against the muslims and the Byzantine
empire for centuries even before conversion to Judaism, and their
capital was a thriving economic centre of the world like NewYork
today until they were swept by Ghengiz Khan, and migrated to Poland
and Russia.
Modern Jews reject these facts or 'lies' if you want to call them
because it voids anti-semitism of its meaning, and strips them of
alleged historical rights in places they dont belong to.
I will not contribute to this particular thread again so as not to
start another war, as this is not my intention.
and by the way these are soley my views and are not the views held
By the majority or even the minority of the muslim world Becuase
unfortunately nobody here knows about Koestler or Dunlop.

Hatem

 

[Peter G]

Every border in the world has been decided by war and negotiation

There is no evidence whatsoever that giving up all the land won in the 67 war will provide any peace whatsoever.

Since practically all the Arab nations have been trying to wipe out Israel for most of the 20th century, they are justifiably paranoid and may negotiatle lands in dribs, but will probably figure they get more safety from a bigger buffer zone and more strategic ground than trading it for unknown and unlikely peace.

If the palestinian won't stop suicide bombings during negotiations, why would Israelis believe they would stop after the negotiations are over. I know I wouldn't.

There are no easy solution. There will probably be tremendous diplomatic pressure brought to bear on both sides with current climate. There is the slimmest chance some compromise may get some agreements signed.

But I suspect the Israelis and Palestinians will be killing each other until the area is one large smoldering graveyard.

Peter

Now Israel has been in existence for more than 50 years and there
is no going back on this (as most Palestinians have at last come to
realize), so the question is when will Israel understand that for
their own long term survival they really need to give back ALL the
occupied territories (which by international law do not even belong
to them) and to make peace wholeheartedly? (despite some
lip-service, there has been little evidence of any sincerity from
their part, since Sharon became Prime Minister) Pacific
cohabitation with the Palestinians may be extremely difficult to
achieve in the short term, after so many years of mutual hatred,
but it is of vital importance for the future of the Jews in the
Holy Land, as the most enlightened Israelis readily tell in
confidence...
Marcel-Etienne

 

[Peter G]

There was no concept of a palestinian state or of borders in general until the Israelis started to push for their own statehood. Since they realized the Israeli intention the Arabs have been trying to wipe them out.

From your comments I assume there is some magic year when ownership of all lands of the world was decided. Please let me know when that was. I was under the mistaken impression that they have been changing hands in conflict throughout recorded time.

Is there some implication to your bitter pill pronouncement. Does that mean you mean the Israelis should just go away?

Peter ( Athiest )

Palestine belongs to the Palestinians or have you now re-written
history to suit you as well?

and I am neither Jew nor Arab.

Thanks for the perspective. That is pretty much the way I had
sized it up. If there is a solution, I believe the Palestinians
will have to move somewhere else

An excellent perspective and an ingenious solution to the problem,
where have you guys been all these years. I see from this forum
that these views are shared by the vast majority of americans.
The way I see it, prior to 1948 there was something called
Palestine, some people came from Russia and stole this land, now
there is nothing called Palestine.They were robbed of their own
land. and now you say they have to get the hell out.
while we acknowledge the rights of the Sefardi jews ( eastern jews)
to live peacefully among us as they have for the past 2000 years,
we can not accept the notion that descendants of the KHAZAR empire
who have turned into judaism ONLY in the 8th century AD to come
proclaiming rights in a land that was never theirs, just because
europe rejected them. The vast majority of jews in the world now
are not even semites, they are hamites;of turkish origin.

and for those of who of think I am idiot spreading venomous lies,
please read the Book entitled ' the thirteenth tribe' by a jewish
british scholar called arthur Koestler. I am not inventing this,
There is a more recent book suBstantiating the same facts By an
american scholar called Dunlop ( in Columbia University) But I dont
know the name of the book I dont own it.

By the way the first one who spoke about the Khazar ( or Kazar)
empire was Ibn Fadlan. those of who who watch movies a lot will
know that Ibn Fadlan was ' THE THIRTEENTH WARRIOR', But the movie
speaks about a different segment of his life ( doesnt the number
ring a bell)
There is nothing wrong in Belonging to this GREAT empire at all
because they were GREAT fighters, had a thriving civilisation, they
stood up LIKE GREAT MEN against the muslims and the Byzantine
empire for centuries even before conversion to Judaism, and their
capital was a thriving economic centre of the world like NewYork
today until they were swept by Ghengiz Khan, and migrated to Poland
and Russia.
Modern Jews reject these facts or 'lies' if you want to call them
because it voids anti-semitism of its meaning, and strips them of
alleged historical rights in places they dont belong to.
I will not contribute to this particular thread again so as not to
start another war, as this is not my intention.
and by the way these are soley my views and are not the views held
By the majority or even the minority of the muslim world Becuase
unfortunately nobody here knows about Koestler or Dunlop.

Hatem

 

[Chunin Martinez]

If by "true friend" you mean the one that you get by giving free billions in aid yearly and still asking for more, then by all means Israel is the true$t of all friend$ of the US. Israel receives more money every year from the US than alll other countries in the world combined. That Jewish lobby in Washington really works well.

Chunin

I agree with you Oren, Israel is the only TRUE friend of the U.S.
in the mideast. The rest have been hypocrits.........Now Israel
will join the U.S. in helping to wipe out these Terroristic
Barbarians... Every time I see the pictures of the Towers falling,
the people looking for the loved ones, and the people that have
died, I get somber and then I get a burning anger inside. We can
not and will not tolerate this.