Do real pros use the Dimage 7? I think ....

[jp52637]

I see now that part of my post has disappeared (my fault I copied from the wrong notepad)
This is what it should have been

Do real pros use the E10?

It is for me a clear case that the E10 fails to live up to the requirements for a real professional (just like the D7 or the 707 would).

Let me elaborate:
The following text has been copied mainly from Phils reviews.

it certainly doesn't like my MK II 1 GB Microdrive (it won't turn on properly and goes into endless loops).
My recommendation? Don't try to use an IBM Microdrive in an E-10

I personally found the (E10) auto focus to be okay, nothing earth shattering

The size and round shape of the (E10) eyepiece often leads to visual vignetting at you find yourself "dodging" the camera left, right, up and down to get the viewfinder view just right.

There doesn't seem to be a particularly well defined focusing screen, I found my eye focusing THROUGH the lens rather than at the point where the camera was focused.

there seems to be some distortion of the image into the viewfinder

We measured the (E10) rear LCD as being 94% accurate
The DiMAGE 7's LCD provides a 100% frame view. Kudos for that.

We measured the (E10) viewfinder as being 92% accurate
the DiMAGE 7's electronic viewfinder provided a 100% frame view

MAJOR disappointments with the E-10's LCD are:

Poor resolution of the live preview image...because of the low resolution of the live preview image it's just a blocky mess

Secondly is the badly designed information overlay "status bar".

Lack of immediate histogram display in record (image review) and on top of that Histogram display in play mode is slow

Fastest shutter speed of 1/640 sec (problematic for Shallow DOF in bright circumstances)

Slow startup times (E10 5.4 D7 5.6)

and also very important the AF is not so good as some would like to believe:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=1436394

How many pro users could live with all these shortcomings you think?

I do not deny that the E10 is a good camera but it is not a real pro.

And since gonzo stated that prosumer and consumer is actually the same thing, this means that the E10 is a consumer camera and then it is WAY too expensive for what it has to offer.

 

[Phil Askey]

Restored.. because you all wanted the thread back.

Actually, I am curious to know the answer to this question. This is
not intended as some kind of attack (as a certain other message
posted in another forum was). I would seriously like to know if
pros are using this camera, and for what? My definition of "pro"
is much less stringent than I have seen elsewhere: "Pro" = anyone
who regularly makes money (print-by-print, hourly or otherwise) off
their photography.

This is the first thread I have started in this forum, please be
gentle ...

Dr. G.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

JP? did you read that thread in its entirety? several "real pros" have responded that they do use the camera for work, and do make money (sometimes a living) with it. your "no self-respecting professional" line is false.

unfortunately, that thread was started on the wrong foot, so the real responses are somewhat hard to find. if you like, I can refer you directly to them.

the truth is that the e-10 is not as suitable for certain kinds of professional work as other cameras (but is capable of those types of work, if needed), and for others it is fine. the low buy-in is an added attraction for those professionals who can use them. professionals do buy, have bought, and currently use E-10s for work.

but this is, again, all tangential to the original question.

jp wrote:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=1436588

I am pretty sure that no self-respecting professional would use a
D7 (or an E10) for a living. That is so clear to me that when
someone starts a thread like this, it already makes me suspicious.

On the other hand, Dr Gonzo always claims that the E10 is a
professional camrera by summing up features that are important to a
professional.
He only does this because that would be the only thing that would
clearly set it apart from a D7 or 707.
What he never wants to hear howevver is that the E10 has several
shortcomings that makes it unusable as a REAL pro tool.

 

[Michael Gstettenbauer53690]

This is the first thread I have started in this forum, please be
gentle ...

Yes Dr. G., Sir!

 

[Bryan Biggers]

Dr. Gonzo wrote:
have started in this forum, please be

gentle ...

Dr. G.

Give me a break. What about this one?
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=1391745
Bryan

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Whoops, thank you for bringing that to my attention.
Forgot about that one.
This is my first pure discussion thread I have started. How's that?

Dr. G.

gentle ...

Dr. G.

Give me a break. What about this one?
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=1391745
Bryan

 

[David Roberts]

Dr. Gonzo wrote:
.

This is my first pure discussion thread I have started. How's that?

Gonzo, baby, you've done it again. With an apparently simply worded post you get the guys all excited and worked up. Even Ger Ber gets on your case!

Your question was an interesting one originally and Jim K answered it pretty fully. Neither the D7 nor the E10 are "pro cameras" by definition. That definition has developed from the ability of certain digital cameras to use lenses manufactured for conventional SLRs. As consumer cameras acquire more power and versatility they may fill the needs of some professionals. However, when a photographic assignment requires the use of a 1000mm lens, then it will be the "pro cameras" that will fulfill that need.

I think we will see the lines of demarcation blur as technology in the lower order of cameras improves to the point that people who earn their principal income from the sale of photographic images are able to rely on them to provide all the qualities they require to satisfy their photographic needs.

Thank you for posting an interesting question, though I suspect that your intention was to stir up just the situation that has developed.
By the way, have you asked this question in the Oly forum?
Regards,
Dave Roberts

 

[Leo Terminello]

Yes

My first D7 job was a huge success. The check writer (THE ONLY PERSON THAT COUNTS) was thrilled and told me so. He subsequently asked for a price on another job.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Hi Leo,

What kind of job was it?

Dr G.

Yes

My first D7 job was a huge success. The check writer (THE ONLY
PERSON THAT COUNTS) was thrilled and told me so. He subsequently
asked for a price on another job.

 

[Leo Terminello]

It was shots of inflatable toy things that kids and adults climb on splash in etc. I cut them out in PS because the background was no good. The client will make post cards of them and will be sending them to his prospective clients, I have put in a bid for the printing. I will be putting some of my stuff up soon, but I am to busy to play now, however I am looking forward to it. I am looking for constructive criticism when I do. This is my living and I would appreciate input from some artists as opposed to gamma guys.
Leo Terminello

 

[Jim K53618]

Hi Dr. G, glad to see your thread was restored by Phil!

Anyway back to the subject at hand, it is my opinion (as a pro) that most established pros will not elect to use the D7 for work. This is NOT to say that it can not be used, but in most situations a pro is going to need longer battery life. AS I said earlier in this thread, a 100 shots is nothing, and can be done in 20 minutes. So who would want to pack 10 extra sets of batteries and take the time to change them every 15 -20 minutes?

Here is where the E10 really does shine. If you use it's optional battery grip (B-10LBP0), and hand grip, you can shoot 400 to 600 shots! Have a couple extra lithium polymer batters on hand, and shoot all day! Plus you have the FL-40 dedicated flash, a flash sync connector for studio flash. I can at least understand why so many pros and semi-pros use the E10 exclusively.

Certainly the D7 can produce verry pleasing pictures, no arguement there from me! I just don't see it designed or targested for the semi-pro/pro. Minolta could easily correct this by releasing a better battery solution, and external flash sinc connector, but they would be after thoughts.

Still it does depend on the type of work! I have used the 2100, 2020, 3030, 950, and 990 for web based work with exceptional results. And I know many pros who use consumer camera's for web based work.

Most established PRO's already have 2 or 3 D1's or D30's on hand, so why bother with a consumer camera? For us spending $5000-$8000 for a digital is equal to a consumer spending about $1500 for a digital.

Let me just close by saying I have the highest respect for the D7, I own one and use it! I also have a E10, dittos. I just can't picture a pro going to the store and buying a D7 for work. For recreation? ABSOLUTELY!!!

Take Care!
Jim K

What kind of job was it?

Dr G.

Yes

My first D7 job was a huge success. The check writer (THE ONLY
PERSON THAT COUNTS) was thrilled and told me so. He subsequently
asked for a price on another job.

 

[Joo]

Hi Dr. G, glad to see your thread was restored by Phil!

Anyway back to the subject at hand, it is my opinion (as a pro)
that most established pros will not elect to use the D7 for work.
This is NOT to say that it can not be used, but in most situations
a pro is going to need longer battery life. AS I said earlier in
this thread, a 100 shots is nothing, and can be done in 20 minutes.
So who would want to pack 10 extra sets of batteries and take the
time to change them every 15 -20 minutes?

If you are a pro, then battery life should not be a big issue for you with the D7. You can purchase THE Digital Camera Battery at http://www.digitalcamerabattery.com . Check it out sometime. I haven't purchased one myself yet but I am seriously considering it, maybe next year. BTW...I am not a pro. I do not make any money off of photography. Battery life on the D7 really is not a big issue.

Here is where the E10 really does shine. If you use it's optional
battery grip (B-10LBP0), and hand grip, you can shoot 400 to 600
shots! Have a couple extra lithium polymer batters on hand, and
shoot all day! Plus you have the FL-40 dedicated flash, a flash
sync connector for studio flash. I can at least understand why so
many pros and semi-pros use the E10 exclusively.

Minolta will be coming out with an adapter which will allow the use of studio flash sometime in the fall. As for dedicated flashes, at the very least, you have the 3600HS(D) and 5600HS(D).

Certainly the D7 can produce verry pleasing pictures, no arguement
there from me! I just don't see it designed or targested for the
semi-pro/pro. Minolta could easily correct this by releasing a
better battery solution, and external flash sinc connector, but
they would be after thoughts.

A better battery solution from Minolta is not necessary. As I mentioned above, you can get the digital camera battery or buy one from Quantum. although, if I had a choice, I'd probably go with the digital camera battery. Also, as I mentioned above, Minolta will be coming out with an adapter for use with studio flashes.

Still it does depend on the type of work! I have used the 2100,
2020, 3030, 950, and 990 for web based work with exceptional
results. And I know many pros who use consumer camera's for web
based work.

Most established PRO's already have 2 or 3 D1's or D30's on hand,
so why bother with a consumer camera? For us spending $5000-$8000
for a digital is equal to a consumer spending about $1500 for a
digital.

Let me just close by saying I have the highest respect for the D7,
I own one and use it! I also have a E10, dittos. I just can't
picture a pro going to the store and buying a D7 for work. For
recreation? ABSOLUTELY!!!

Take Care!
Jim K

What kind of job was it?

Dr G.

Yes

My first D7 job was a huge success. The check writer (THE ONLY
PERSON THAT COUNTS) was thrilled and told me so. He subsequently
asked for a price on another job.

 

[Jim K53618]

I am fimiluar with them, but I already have enough Quantums around here.

I don't like being wired. I use my quantums for protable flash solutions.

But thanks for sharing the link!

Jim K

Hi Dr. G, glad to see your thread was restored by Phil!

Anyway back to the subject at hand, it is my opinion (as a pro)
that most established pros will not elect to use the D7 for work.
This is NOT to say that it can not be used, but in most situations
a pro is going to need longer battery life. AS I said earlier in
this thread, a 100 shots is nothing, and can be done in 20 minutes.
So who would want to pack 10 extra sets of batteries and take the
time to change them every 15 -20 minutes?

If you are a pro, then battery life should not be a big issue for
you with the D7. You can purchase THE Digital Camera Battery at
http://www.digitalcamerabattery.com . Check it out sometime. I haven't
purchased one myself yet but I am seriously considering it, maybe
next year. BTW...I am not a pro. I do not make any money off of
photography. Battery life on the D7 really is not a big issue.

Here is where the E10 really does shine. If you use it's optional
battery grip (B-10LBP0), and hand grip, you can shoot 400 to 600
shots! Have a couple extra lithium polymer batters on hand, and
shoot all day! Plus you have the FL-40 dedicated flash, a flash
sync connector for studio flash. I can at least understand why so
many pros and semi-pros use the E10 exclusively.

Minolta will be coming out with an adapter which will allow the use
of studio flash sometime in the fall. As for dedicated flashes, at
the very least, you have the 3600HS(D) and 5600HS(D).

Certainly the D7 can produce verry pleasing pictures, no arguement
there from me! I just don't see it designed or targested for the
semi-pro/pro. Minolta could easily correct this by releasing a
better battery solution, and external flash sinc connector, but
they would be after thoughts.

A better battery solution from Minolta is not necessary. As I
mentioned above, you can get the digital camera battery or buy one
from Quantum. although, if I had a choice, I'd probably go with the
digital camera battery. Also, as I mentioned above, Minolta will be
coming out with an adapter for use with studio flashes.

Still it does depend on the type of work! I have used the 2100,
2020, 3030, 950, and 990 for web based work with exceptional
results. And I know many pros who use consumer camera's for web
based work.

Most established PRO's already have 2 or 3 D1's or D30's on hand,
so why bother with a consumer camera? For us spending $5000-$8000
for a digital is equal to a consumer spending about $1500 for a
digital.

Let me just close by saying I have the highest respect for the D7,
I own one and use it! I also have a E10, dittos. I just can't
picture a pro going to the store and buying a D7 for work. For
recreation? ABSOLUTELY!!!

Take Care!
Jim K

What kind of job was it?

Dr G.

Yes

My first D7 job was a huge success. The check writer (THE ONLY
PERSON THAT COUNTS) was thrilled and told me so. He subsequently
asked for a price on another job.

 

[Russell Bozian]

Anyway back to the subject at hand, it is my opinion (as a pro)
that most established pros will not elect to use the D7 for work.
This is NOT to say that it can not be used, but in most situations
a pro is going to need longer battery life. AS I said earlier in
this thread, a 100 shots is nothing, and can be done in 20 minutes.
So who would want to pack 10 extra sets of batteries and take the
time to change them every 15 -20 minutes?

Here is where the E10 really does shine. If you use it's optional
battery grip (B-10LBP0), and hand grip, you can shoot 400 to 600
shots! Have a couple extra lithium polymer batters on hand, and
shoot all day! Plus you have the FL-40 dedicated flash, a flash
sync connector for studio flash. I can at least understand why so
many pros and semi-pros use the E10 exclusively.

Certainly the D7 can produce verry pleasing pictures, no arguement
there from me! I just don't see it designed or targested for the
semi-pro/pro. Minolta could easily correct this by releasing a
better battery solution, and external flash sinc connector, but
they would be after thoughts.

Still it does depend on the type of work! I have used the 2100,
2020, 3030, 950, and 990 for web based work with exceptional
results. And I know many pros who use consumer camera's for web
based work.

Most established PRO's already have 2 or 3 D1's or D30's on hand,
so why bother with a consumer camera? For us spending $5000-$8000
for a digital is equal to a consumer spending about $1500 for a
digital.

Let me just close by saying I have the highest respect for the D7,
I own one and use it! I also have a E10, dittos. I just can't
picture a pro going to the store and buying a D7 for work. For
recreation? ABSOLUTELY!!!

Take Care!
Jim K

What kind of job was it?

Dr G.

Yes

My first D7 job was a huge success. The check writer (THE ONLY
PERSON THAT COUNTS) was thrilled and told me so. He subsequently
asked for a price on another job.

 

[Russell Bozian]

Anyway back to the subject at hand, it is my opinion (as a pro)
that most established pros will not elect to use the D7 for work.
This is NOT to say that it can not be used, but in most situations
a pro is going to need longer battery life. AS I said earlier in

My guess would be that only "some established pros" would both care about battery life and not be willing to carry spares/hook up a mambo external battery.

I'm a professional photographer, and I care lots more about having 28mm-200mm focal lengths instantly available in a circa-one-pound camera that quivers not on a three-pound tripod. I simply don't know of any other camera in the world with such a weight-to-capability ratio. How many F2.8 28-200 variable-focus lenses are there in the world? Final weight of lens and camera body?

Every ounce I save with the D7 means I can carry more support equipment, flashes, umbrellas, gray cards, (soon) a portable printer, etc etc. And the ease/speed of never changing lenses has already proven to be a stress reliever that leaves my mind free to concentrate on aesthetic and social matters on the job. Of course it will take years to tell durability but the camera and controls just feel amazingly light to me, not flimsy. (Wish there was an outside single button for set-custom-white-balance).

The contrast and saturation controls have let me calibrate my camera to take modest-tonal-range photos without image manipulation, saving time and money in overall workflow. And I now realize what a nightmare the macro range of my old Nikon 950 was, only active at the WIDEST focal lengths--just the opposite of the great working distance of the D7 full-telephoto macro.

Do all digicams now show you (or let you set) precisely where in the frame the autofocus has chosen as lock target? Another major professional stress reliever.

I don't do sports or animals. I do a lot more thinking, composing, light-judging and waiting than I do shutter-button pushing. To comfortably carry a contrast-adjustable five-pound 28-200 tripod/rigid ball-head/camera rig all day in one hand that gives near-35mm-quality, with quicker overall workflow, is such a bigger deal to me than being able to take 200 pictures (who has that many good ideas, insights and subjects in a day?) without spare or external batteries.

 

[Leo Terminello]

Way to go Russell,
You saved a lot of real photogs time in telling it like it is.
Leo Terminello

 

[SF Sam]

My guess would be that only "some established pros" would both care
about battery life and not be willing to carry spares/hook up a
mambo external battery.

snip

I don't do sports or animals. I do a lot more thinking, composing,
light-judging and waiting than I do shutter-button pushing. To
comfortably carry a contrast-adjustable five-pound 28-200
tripod/rigid ball-head/camera rig all day in one hand that gives
near-35mm-quality, with quicker overall workflow, is such a bigger
deal to me than being able to take 200 pictures (who has that many
good ideas, insights and subjects in a day?) without spare or
external batteries.

Excellent points, Russell.

I was thinking when this thread first started that there are many sorts of folks who make money with their photography. For some the D7 would have drawbacks or just not come up to the standards of the much more expensive digicams they already own, and that's fine. For others, the D7 may very well do all they want or need -- and a lot of that depends on what sort of shots we're talking about.

I've made a little money from product photography for artists and craftspeople. For Web photos, brochures and even slides (through a service bureau with a film reader), the D7 turns out very nice stuff -- better than most of the people I've worked with could do on their own (it helps if the person behind the camera actually enjoys taking photos and is good at it -- most artists want to be creating art, not documenting it). I don't take hundreds of shots in an hour -- I don't need to. My subjects aren't moving around, and I control the lighting. I haven't had the camera long enough to do a shoot with it yet, but from my messing around with it I'd say it will work just fine for the sorts of things I do.

Also, fine art photographers might very well use the D7 if they're interested in going digital. Most fine art photography isn't about taking maximum frames on minimum battery charge, either, and the lens and adjustability make sense for fine art work. My own photography tends to fall into the "photography for photography's sake" niche, and I'm having a good time taking stuff that some folks I know (who have their own work in galleries) say is gallery quality.

That said, I don't really care if pros adopt the D7. I like it for what I do.

Sam

 

[Icypeak]

I also have recently started to make some income off of my 25 year hobby of photography. The D7 is the perfect tool for my brand of photography, mainly scenic/adventure/wilderness shots. I shoot very selectively, and a heavy rig just won't cut it. Battery life has been no problem, but I'll end up getting an external battery pack for winter skiing and mountaineering shots, given the problems with NiMH batteries in cold weather. A 28mm or wider lens is a must for me, and I favor the EVF to an optical VF, with the presently available cameras. I find the manual focusing with 4x mag view in macro mode an excellent addition. A more substantial eyecup would be welcome, however, as side-glare is a problem with using the EVF. The lack of a wide angle lens, and lack of flexibility in saturation/sharpening make the Sony 707 just not an option for me. I'm interested to see what Canon does to update the Pro 90, as a 10x image stabilized lens would be a great help, if and only if it started at a true wide-angle range.

 

[Jim K53618]

I'm glad to hear your making money off the D7! I never meant that it couldn't or shouldn't be done. I was speaking of pros that i know and their work flow is very different.

I started with a CP950!!! Of course at the time it was the benchmark, but that didn't last long. Cameras just kept getting better and better!

I want you to know that I also love my D7. And this past week I have been grabbing it every chance I get. I realize that everyone has different needs and requirements.

I wish you the best of luck and would really like to see some pictures this winter!

Jim K

I also have recently started to make some income off of my 25 year
hobby of photography. The D7 is the perfect tool for my brand of
photography, mainly scenic/adventure/wilderness shots. I shoot
very selectively, and a heavy rig just won't cut it. Battery life
has been no problem, but I'll end up getting an external battery
pack for winter skiing and mountaineering shots, given the problems
with NiMH batteries in cold weather. A 28mm or wider lens is a
must for me, and I favor the EVF to an optical VF, with the
presently available cameras. I find the manual focusing with 4x
mag view in macro mode an excellent addition. A more substantial
eyecup would be welcome, however, as side-glare is a problem with
using the EVF. The lack of a wide angle lens, and lack of
flexibility in saturation/sharpening make the Sony 707 just not an
option for me. I'm interested to see what Canon does to update the
Pro 90, as a 10x image stabilized lens would be a great help, if
and only if it started at a true wide-angle range.

 

[Icypeak]

Thank you Jim

I'll hopefully be getting a lot of shots at the olympic ski events this winter, in addition to some mountaineering, ice climbing, telemark/back country skiing, and cross country. If the D7 survives, it will be a good testimonial to it's durability!

I started with a CP950!!! Of course at the time it was the
benchmark, but that didn't last long. Cameras just kept getting
better and better!

I want you to know that I also love my D7. And this past week I
have been grabbing it every chance I get. I realize that everyone
has different needs and requirements.

I wish you the best of luck and would really like to see some
pictures this winter!

Jim K

I also have recently started to make some income off of my 25 year
hobby of photography. The D7 is the perfect tool for my brand of
photography, mainly scenic/adventure/wilderness shots. I shoot
very selectively, and a heavy rig just won't cut it. Battery life
has been no problem, but I'll end up getting an external battery
pack for winter skiing and mountaineering shots, given the problems
with NiMH batteries in cold weather. A 28mm or wider lens is a
must for me, and I favor the EVF to an optical VF, with the
presently available cameras. I find the manual focusing with 4x
mag view in macro mode an excellent addition. A more substantial
eyecup would be welcome, however, as side-glare is a problem with
using the EVF. The lack of a wide angle lens, and lack of
flexibility in saturation/sharpening make the Sony 707 just not an
option for me. I'm interested to see what Canon does to update the
Pro 90, as a 10x image stabilized lens would be a great help, if
and only if it started at a true wide-angle range.