D30 vs E10 I got-em both so here goes

[John Mason]

I picked up my D30 today. I have become a believer in IS. I'm going on a trip to Italy a week from now and was looking for the best digital arrangement to take pics in cathedrals and museums without flash or tripod. After much input from this forum and research I selected the 28-135IS. Here is a sample shot from the D30:

iso 100 f4.5 1/3 second (or 3/10's in the Exif file), handheld, home florescent lighting

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1604454&a=12759897&p=47834424

Here is the same shot from the E10:

iso 80, 1/10 sec, f2.2
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1604454&a=12759897&p=47834429

Some comments about these pics. I'll be traveling with a group. I have to take any shots I want and then keep moving with the group. So, I shot these 2 shots auto everything except no flash, just like I may have to do now and then on the trip. I have read a lot on this forum about white balance. On the E10 forum you learn don't ever use auto white balance indoors without flash. Here you can see why. Now the canon wasn't perfect on the white balance, but it was a whole lot better than the E10. I observed this in test shots in the camera store as well with totally different lighting.

I took some more shots and you can boost the D30 to 400 with virtually no addiontional noise. In this mode the D30 shots are tripod clear. You really don't have that option on the the E10. If you boost to its max at 320 the noise becomes a real problem. The IS feature more than makes up for the F stop difference of the lens. (since these subjects won't be moving).

Except for the lack of any low cost wide angle - so far the D30 looks to be far better suited for indoor shooting.

One last time - here is the same shot with the D30 at ISO 400 - no visible increase in noise (you'd see if at about 50x magnification). Even a little clearer at 1/15 sec (up from 1/3 sec on the first shot). Much much clearer than the 1/10 sec shot on the E10.

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1604454&a=12759897&p=47835186

Also, I played around with family people pics. The E10 - like many cameras including the D30 - have auto modes that look to use a ttl flash in 'FILL" mode, often keeping the shutter speed slow. With the IS these "boosted" available light pictures actually look pretty good - not all overflashed with dark backgrounds. Without IS these can be an excersize in bluriness. Of couse, the subject needs to not be moving around too much. But, still, often an otherwise good flash shot is blurred because of camera shake with these new (new to me) point and shoot style auto modes. The IS eliminates most of this. (I'll just go to Tv mode if the subject is to wiggly).

By the way - what does Tv mode stand for. Why not S for shutter priority?

Thanks for all the advice on the forum that helped me select this IS lens for my upcoming trip.

Now, what next, 1.4 50mm (80mm), 28-70L, 2.5 50mm (80mm) macro. So many options - oh, that other minor D30 advantage over the E10! )--John Mason - Lafayette, IN

 

[Don L]

Tv=time value
Av= aperture value

Don L

I picked up my D30 today. I have become a believer in IS. I'm
going on a trip to Italy a week from now and was looking for the
best digital arrangement to take pics in cathedrals and museums
without flash or tripod. After much input from this forum and
research I selected the 28-135IS. Here is a sample shot from the
D30:

iso 100 f4.5 1/3 second (or 3/10's in the Exif file), handheld,
home florescent lighting

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1604454&a=12759897&p=47834424

Here is the same shot from the E10:

iso 80, 1/10 sec, f2.2
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1604454&a=12759897&p=47834429

Some comments about these pics. I'll be traveling with a group. I
have to take any shots I want and then keep moving with the group.
So, I shot these 2 shots auto everything except no flash, just like
I may have to do now and then on the trip. I have read a lot on
this forum about white balance. On the E10 forum you learn don't
ever use auto white balance indoors without flash. Here you can
see why. Now the canon wasn't perfect on the white balance, but it
was a whole lot better than the E10. I observed this in test shots
in the camera store as well with totally different lighting.

I took some more shots and you can boost the D30 to 400 with
virtually no addiontional noise. In this mode the D30 shots are
tripod clear. You really don't have that option on the the E10.
If you boost to its max at 320 the noise becomes a real problem.
The IS feature more than makes up for the F stop difference of the
lens. (since these subjects won't be moving).

Except for the lack of any low cost wide angle - so far the D30
looks to be far better suited for indoor shooting.

One last time - here is the same shot with the D30 at ISO 400 - no
visible increase in noise (you'd see if at about 50x
magnification). Even a little clearer at 1/15 sec (up from 1/3 sec
on the first shot). Much much clearer than the 1/10 sec shot on
the E10.

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1604454&a=12759897&p=47835186

Also, I played around with family people pics. The E10 - like many
cameras including the D30 - have auto modes that look to use a ttl
flash in 'FILL" mode, often keeping the shutter speed slow. With
the IS these "boosted" available light pictures actually look
pretty good - not all overflashed with dark backgrounds. Without
IS these can be an excersize in bluriness. Of couse, the subject
needs to not be moving around too much. But, still, often an
otherwise good flash shot is blurred because of camera shake with
these new (new to me) point and shoot style auto modes. The IS
eliminates most of this. (I'll just go to Tv mode if the subject
is to wiggly).

By the way - what does Tv mode stand for. Why not S for shutter
priority?

Thanks for all the advice on the forum that helped me select this
IS lens for my upcoming trip.

Now, what next, 1.4 50mm (80mm), 28-70L, 2.5 50mm (80mm) macro. So
many options - oh, that other minor D30 advantage over the E10! )
--
John Mason - Lafayette, IN

 

[John Mason]

Thanks - it probably says that in the manual I haven't read yet.

 

[Scott Larson #19002]

I'm surprised by how much color is in the E10 picture. One of the things that steered me away from the E10 was the near black and white quality of almost all of the E10 images I've seen, especially ones taken in low light. I was used to low color saturation images from my D770 but I was always able to increase the saturation afterwards if I wanted some punch. I tried to increase the saturation of E10 images and the colors immediately became strange and unrealistic.

Some people prefer muted colors but many of the pictures I take regularly really need blazing, almost unrealistic, color levels. The D30 and S1 were the only cameras that could give me that.

 

[Trent Mulkern]

The only other thing to watch about the 28-135 IS is lens droop when pointed down or up. I was taking some macros of flowers this PM. I had it all set up bent over a railing and couldn't figure why the camera wouldn't focus. The lens had drooped to 70 mm. Too bad they didn't add a lens stop to hold the lens in place at a specific focal range.

Regards,
Trent

I picked up my D30 today. I have become a believer in IS. I'm
going on a trip to Italy a week from now and was looking for the
best digital arrangement to take pics in cathedrals and museums
without flash or tripod. After much input from this forum and
research I selected the 28-135IS. Here is a sample shot from the
D30:

iso 100 f4.5 1/3 second (or 3/10's in the Exif file), handheld,
home florescent lighting

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1604454&a=12759897&p=47834424

Here is the same shot from the E10:

iso 80, 1/10 sec, f2.2
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1604454&a=12759897&p=47834429

Some comments about these pics. I'll be traveling with a group. I
have to take any shots I want and then keep moving with the group.
So, I shot these 2 shots auto everything except no flash, just like
I may have to do now and then on the trip. I have read a lot on
this forum about white balance. On the E10 forum you learn don't
ever use auto white balance indoors without flash. Here you can
see why. Now the canon wasn't perfect on the white balance, but it
was a whole lot better than the E10. I observed this in test shots
in the camera store as well with totally different lighting.

I took some more shots and you can boost the D30 to 400 with
virtually no addiontional noise. In this mode the D30 shots are
tripod clear. You really don't have that option on the the E10.
If you boost to its max at 320 the noise becomes a real problem.
The IS feature more than makes up for the F stop difference of the
lens. (since these subjects won't be moving).

Except for the lack of any low cost wide angle - so far the D30
looks to be far better suited for indoor shooting.

One last time - here is the same shot with the D30 at ISO 400 - no
visible increase in noise (you'd see if at about 50x
magnification). Even a little clearer at 1/15 sec (up from 1/3 sec
on the first shot). Much much clearer than the 1/10 sec shot on
the E10.

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1604454&a=12759897&p=47835186

Also, I played around with family people pics. The E10 - like many
cameras including the D30 - have auto modes that look to use a ttl
flash in 'FILL" mode, often keeping the shutter speed slow. With
the IS these "boosted" available light pictures actually look
pretty good - not all overflashed with dark backgrounds. Without
IS these can be an excersize in bluriness. Of couse, the subject
needs to not be moving around too much. But, still, often an
otherwise good flash shot is blurred because of camera shake with
these new (new to me) point and shoot style auto modes. The IS
eliminates most of this. (I'll just go to Tv mode if the subject
is to wiggly).

By the way - what does Tv mode stand for. Why not S for shutter
priority?

Thanks for all the advice on the forum that helped me select this
IS lens for my upcoming trip.

Now, what next, 1.4 50mm (80mm), 28-70L, 2.5 50mm (80mm) macro. So
many options - oh, that other minor D30 advantage over the E10! )
--
John Mason - Lafayette, IN

 

[Cosmo]

Another good thing about the D30 is you can shoot in RAW mode and use any WB you want when converting to TIFF

Cheers,

Cosmo
http://www.mdigital.f2s.com

PS: Definitely watch out for that zoom droop on the 28-135 even when carrying the camera with the lens pointing down

PPS: Have a great trip!

 

[John Mason44029]

I had read about Lens droop before but didn't know what people were talking about. Now that I have the thing in my hand I can see it can gravitate on it's own if your not careful.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[John Mason44029]

Yep - I was planning on shooting raw. And on the D30 it's 12 bits instead of the E10's 10 bits!

Another good thing about the D30 is you can shoot in RAW mode and
use any WB you want when converting to TIFF

Cheers,

Cosmo
http://www.mdigital.f2s.com

PS: Definitely watch out for that zoom droop on the 28-135 even
when carrying the camera with the lens pointing down

PPS: Have a great trip!

 

[JamesM]

E-10 allows shots in RAW mode as well.

-JM

Another good thing about the D30 is you can shoot in RAW mode and
use any WB you want when converting to TIFF

Cheers,

Cosmo
http://www.mdigital.f2s.com

PS: Definitely watch out for that zoom droop on the 28-135 even
when carrying the camera with the lens pointing down

PPS: Have a great trip!