Pentax *istDS advantages over Canon EOS300D

[eleven03]

Standard batteries (Another advantage for those moving from non-SLR
or from film)

Again this isn't really an advantage, the 300D's Lithium-Ion pack
lasts much better than 'standard batteries' ever could.

The standard AA's are the biggest advantage over this LiIon trash. The LiIon have a limited liftime due to there internal chemistry. No matter if you use it or not, there run to dead in 2-3 years. Maybe your Cam dont life long enough to reach the lifetime of this type of batterie, but i'm sure, if youre LiIon runs out of energy in the field, you took a envious look to the users those can get a pair of standards AA elsewere, or use there cam with a standard Li battery (no accu) for 1,600 pictures, or loading the AA-accus with a charger with a nomal 12V car adapter. Can you do this with your LiIon?

By the way, whats wrong with standard AA's that have enough energy for 500-600 pictures if they load correctly?

 

[Peter Spiro]

I've had cameras that use AAs, and also proprietary lithium ion. For the latter I have bought spare generics on eBay, and they are very cheap, and work well.

In practice, digicams hardly work with alkalines, so the argument that you can "buy them anywhere" doesn't hold much water. You have to use NIMH AAs unless you have a lot of money to burn.

For people who don't use their camera every day, battery shelf life is important. You can charge your lithium ions, come back a month later, and find that they still have most of their charge. NIMH's lose about 30% just sitting there.

Lithium ions have more power for the weight, and you don't have to fumble with inserting four of them, each in its proper direction.

For a DSLR, where you don't use the LCD much, the batteries do last a long time, so AAs are tolerable. As far as I know, no manufacturer offers a camera with an EVF that uses AAs (the Minolta Dimage 7 did, and this was one of its biggest disadvantages.)

If I bought a DSLR (and the DS is tempting), it would not be my primary camera. For most purposes, a compact digicam is just as good (in fact, the latest batch of 7mp and 8mp compacts out-resolves the 6mp DSLRs) and much more convenient.

http://ca.geocities.com/spirope/dslr.htm

On the whole, I would say the pluses and minuses of AA batteries are about equal, so I would rate it as neither an advantage nor a disadvantage in the DS.

Standard batteries (Another advantage for those moving from non-SLR > > > or from film)

Again this isn't really an advantage, the 300D's Lithium-Ion pack
lasts much better than 'standard batteries' ever could.

Don't know why Phil seems to have a problem with SLR's using AA -
they are cheap, universally available if problems arise, and most
importantly - you can always raid the kid's toys if you run short!
What are the convincing points in favour of proprietry batteries?

 

[Peter Spiro]

One more quite important point that I forgot to add: the proprietary charges for lithium ion batteries tend to be better than the chargers available for NIMHs.

Lithium ions charge faster, and the charger turns off pretty reliably when the battery is fully charged. The chargers are almost always dual voltage, whereas dual voltage NIMH chargers for travelling are pretty hard to find.

I've had chargers for NIMHs that supposedly shut off when they were fully charged, but I never found them to be completely reliable.

 

[Another birder]

Off the film/sensor plane TTL flash metering, instead of the
preflash used on the Canon.

Can you refer me to some more information on this? I cant find much about it, other than this from Steves-digicams: (on the *ist)

'When used in the advanced P-TTL mode a preflash allows for multi-segment flash metering for more accurate strobe photography. '

--
http://www.pbase.com/timothyo

 

[Wally OZ]

Or is this all based on hearsay?

I know you haven't used the *istDs

 

[racehorse in the desert]

Or is this all based on hearsay?

I know you haven't used the *istDs

I am confident that we could all get comparable results with a 300D, I just don't like the look of it, the plastic mount of the kits lens, etc. To me the *istDS is much more elegant and classy looking. But I know they sell like hotcakes. They are in many retail stores.
--
John Power
Racehorse in the desert

'Life is too short to miss out on photography.'

 

[racehorse in the desert]

Or is this all based on hearsay?

I know you haven't used the *istDs

And also, the 300D is very difficult to hold. The shape of it seems clunky to me. The front right hand side is small and very curved and I have a hard time getting my fingers in the right place. The *istD (and the *istDS looks the same) is designed so that it naturally fits right in your hand. Just personal preferences.

--
John Power
Racehorse in the desert

'Life is too short to miss out on photography.'

--
John Power
Racehorse in the desert

'Life is too short to miss out on photography.'

 

[Jack Simpson]

theponja wrote:

Had a Nokia and it had the fast start up but lousy stamina and my Samsung has the slow start up time but lots of stamina )

Cheers,

Jack

if operation times, esp. startup, were quick, this would be a big
advantage.

It has been my experience that is an item has a quick start up time
it generally has a shorter battery life where as if an item has a
slower
start up time it has a longer battery life.

Now, bear in mind, this is based on my last and current mobile phone!!

)

Jack

Does anyone know if this actually is the case? (do any *istD users
find themselves wishing that their camera was that little bit
quicker, or does any existing delay not bother you?)

jack

--
It's amazing what one can do when one doesn't know what one is
doing

--
It's amazing what one can do when one doesn't know what one is doing

 

[Michael Barker]

FUJI FinePix S3000 and S5000 also have an EVF and uses AAs.

As far as I know, no
manufacturer offers a camera with an EVF that uses AAs (the Minolta
Dimage 7 did, and this was one of its biggest disadvantages.)

 

[brokenz]

Standard batteries (Another advantage for those moving from non-SLR
or from film)

Again this isn't really an advantage, the 300D's Lithium-Ion pack
lasts much better than 'standard batteries' ever could.

The standard AA's are the biggest advantage over this LiIon trash.
The LiIon have a limited liftime due to there internal chemistry.
No matter if you use it or not, there run to dead in 2-3 years.
Maybe your Cam dont life long enough to reach the lifetime of this
type of batterie, but i'm sure, if youre LiIon runs out of energy
in the field, you took a envious look to the users those can get a
pair of standards AA elsewere, or use there cam with a standard Li
battery (no accu) for 1,600 pictures, or loading the AA-accus with
a charger with a nomal 12V car adapter. Can you do this with your
LiIon?

By the way, whats wrong with standard AA's that have enough energy
for 500-600 pictures if they load correctly?

You have a actual way too gage remaining life with the newer Lithium Ion batt packs. You'll know before you ever reach this point. I don't know why some of you just can't accept the fact that li-ion will always outlast Nimh. It doesn't make for a clear advantage anyway since both are so cheap.
--



Trust that little voice in your head that says, 'Wouldn't it be interesting if....' And then do it. -Duane Michals

 

[brokenz]

Or is this all based on hearsay?

I know you haven't used the *istDs

And also, the 300D is very difficult to hold. The shape of it
seems clunky to me. The front right hand side is small and very
curved and I have a hard time getting my fingers in the right
place. The *istD (and the *istDS looks the same) is designed so
that it naturally fits right in your hand. Just personal
preferences.

--
John Power
Racehorse in the desert

'Life is too short to miss out on photography.'

--
John Power
Racehorse in the desert

'Life is too short to miss out on photography.'

No doubt the worse ergonomics of any DSLR. Still a good tool but terrible ergonomics.
--



Trust that little voice in your head that says, 'Wouldn't it be interesting if....' And then do it. -Duane Michals

 

[wy2lam]

Li-Ion outlasts NiMH.
Li-Ion holds more charge.

We have had NiMH in proprietary batteries before, and none of the above prevents manufacturers from using Li-Ion technologies in AA batteries.

Thus, it is not of significant relevance to the discussion, as I'm sure that AA batteries will continue to improve. At some point, all the proprietary battery advantages will vanish.

AA advantages versus proprietary form factors:

1. usable with both cameras and flashguns, so you don't have to carry around 2 sets of batteries, 2 chargers, etc.
2. buy it anywhere

3. some AA slots are shaped to be compatible with CR-V3, so it opens another door to higher capacities and higher availability

4. when the company goes out of business, or decides that they no longer wants to make or support the proprietary battery, your AA camera will not become garbage when the battery dies.

You have a actual way too gage remaining life with the newer
Lithium Ion batt packs. You'll know before you ever reach this
point. I don't know why some of you just can't accept the fact that
li-ion will always outlast Nimh. It doesn't make for a clear
advantage anyway since both are so cheap.
--



Trust that little voice in your head that says, 'Wouldn't it be
interesting if....' And then do it. -Duane Michals

 

[wy2lam]

Answering my own question - Li-Ion rechargeable CR-V3 is already out.
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2003_reviews/rcrv3.html
There is no reason to use proprietary batteries at all.

We have had NiMH in proprietary batteries before, and none of the
above prevents manufacturers from using Li-Ion technologies in AA
batteries.

Thus, it is not of significant relevance to the discussion, as I'm
sure that AA batteries will continue to improve. At some point,
all the proprietary battery advantages will vanish.

AA advantages versus proprietary form factors:
1. usable with both cameras and flashguns, so you don't have to
carry around 2 sets of batteries, 2 chargers, etc.
2. buy it anywhere
3. some AA slots are shaped to be compatible with CR-V3, so it
opens another door to higher capacities and higher availability
4. when the company goes out of business, or decides that they no
longer wants to make or support the proprietary battery, your AA
camera will not become garbage when the battery dies.

You have a actual way too gage remaining life with the newer
Lithium Ion batt packs. You'll know before you ever reach this
point. I don't know why some of you just can't accept the fact that
li-ion will always outlast Nimh. It doesn't make for a clear
advantage anyway since both are so cheap.
--



Trust that little voice in your head that says, 'Wouldn't it be
interesting if....' And then do it. -Duane Michals

 

[Darren M]

Answering my own question - Li-Ion rechargeable CR-V3 is already out.
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2003_reviews/rcrv3.html
There is no reason to use proprietary batteries at all.

Thanks for the link. Interesting that I use the Powervision RCRV3s, but until reading that link I had no idea what brand name they were. I certainly am pleased with mine, but I think I should throw out a caveat. I have some doubts about the reliability of this particular brand of batteries. I have four batteries and two charges (at about half the price listed in that review, they are cheap here in Taiwan). Of the original four batteries, one died just last week after only about three months, and one of the chargers was defective out of the package. Both times I went back to my seller, they immediately made an exchange with no questions. This suggested two things to me though. First, Powervision is not hassling the retailers when it comes to RMAs (returned merchandise agreements) and secondly, with the speed and lack of hesitation on the retailer's part, they have seen this issue before. As long as you buy from someone who deals with the problem quickly and without complaint, maybe this is not an issue. However, if you buy from someone who will balk and drag their feet about exchanges, you might want to consider other options.

--



http://www.trekearth.com/members/Darren/photos/

Have camera, will travel

 

[brokenz]

Li-Ion outlasts NiMH.
Li-Ion holds more charge.

We have had NiMH in proprietary batteries before, and none of the
above prevents manufacturers from using Li-Ion technologies in AA
batteries.

True. As long as something is rechargeable then I see it as advantageous over standard Alkalines.

Thus, it is not of significant relevance to the discussion, as I'm
sure that AA batteries will continue to improve. At some point,
all the proprietary battery advantages will vanish.

Other than to allow smaller form factors in compact (smaller than DSLR) equipment, yes.

AA advantages versus proprietary form factors:
1. usable with both cameras and flashguns, so you don't have to
carry around 2 sets of batteries, 2 chargers, etc.

A conveniece that is very big.

2. buy it anywhere

A small convenience. My equipment that does use AA's is so power hungry that I'm never caught w/o spare Nimh AA's already charged.

3. some AA slots are shaped to be compatible with CR-V3, so it
opens another door to higher capacities and higher availability

Unless something is rechargeable I tend to disagree.

4. when the company goes out of business, or decides that they no
longer wants to make or support the proprietary battery, your AA
camera will not become garbage when the battery dies.

For some types of equipment yes. Considering we are talking about Pentax vs. Canon vs. Nikon though, I don't see that as happening anytime soon.
--



Trust that little voice in your head that says, 'Wouldn't it be interesting if....' And then do it. -Duane Michals

 

[2boys]

I spent a day with a 300D taking balloon shots.
http://www.pbase.com/dazedgonebye/balloons

When I first held it, I was not in love. By the time I was a few frames in, chasing balloons around, I no longer noticed it. It was just another camera in my hands.

Ergonomics are highly subjective and, unless something is truly horrible, you can get used to anything pretty quickly.

Or is this all based on hearsay?

I know you haven't used the *istDs

And also, the 300D is very difficult to hold. The shape of it
seems clunky to me. The front right hand side is small and very
curved and I have a hard time getting my fingers in the right
place. The *istD (and the *istDS looks the same) is designed so
that it naturally fits right in your hand. Just personal
preferences.

--
John Power
Racehorse in the desert

'Life is too short to miss out on photography.'

--
John Power
Racehorse in the desert

'Life is too short to miss out on photography.'

No doubt the worse ergonomics of any DSLR. Still a good tool but
terrible ergonomics.
--



Trust that little voice in your head that says, 'Wouldn't it be
interesting if....' And then do it. -Duane Michals

--
Steven Maniscalco
http://www.pbase.com/dazedgonebye

 

[Sonny Burnett]

I don't personally know about 300D - never tried it. The few owners I know all like it.

But I like your balloon photos. Really cheered up my day Thank you. I took a look at your other galleries, too. I think your work is great.

... though there seemed to be a dust particle on the 300D sensor ;-)

sonny

Or is this all based on hearsay?

I know you haven't used the *istDs

And also, the 300D is very difficult to hold. The shape of it
seems clunky to me. The front right hand side is small and very
curved and I have a hard time getting my fingers in the right
place. The *istD (and the *istDS looks the same) is designed so
that it naturally fits right in your hand. Just personal
preferences.

--
John Power
Racehorse in the desert

'Life is too short to miss out on photography.'

--
John Power
Racehorse in the desert

'Life is too short to miss out on photography.'

No doubt the worse ergonomics of any DSLR. Still a good tool but
terrible ergonomics.
--



Trust that little voice in your head that says, 'Wouldn't it be
interesting if....' And then do it. -Duane Michals

--
Steven Maniscalco
http://www.pbase.com/dazedgonebye

 

[glglchn]

i think this is the biggest advantage, even beats D20

Metal subframe

300D has a metal subframe, although I prefer the plastic used on
the *ist DS there's little difference in build between them.

DOF preview

300D has DOF preview.

2" LCD
210,000 pixel LCD
Smaller
Lighter
Higher-magnification viewfinder
More frames burst (larger buffer)
higher max ISO

Only useful if it's usable.

USB 2.0
SD memory

Advantage? Many don't see it that way.

Standard batteries (Another advantage for those moving from non-SLR
or from film)

Again this isn't really an advantage, the 300D's Lithium-Ion pack
lasts much better than 'standard batteries' ever could.

Larger sensor: 1.5 FOV crop

You really aren't going to be bothered by this in reality.

--
Phil Askey
Editor / Owner, dpreview.com

Thanks Phil

My big concern over the *istDs and *istD are how useful will my
old manual K mount lenses will be. How will they operate on either
camera, especially the *istDs?

I have read a little on this but none of the posts really answer
the question.

 

[2boys]

Thanks Sonny.

With the exception of those balloons (camera borrowed from my boss) just about everything there is from my O555. I get all I can out of it, but I'm Jones'n for a DSLR it the worst way!

But I like your balloon photos. Really cheered up my day Thank
you. I took a look at your other galleries, too. I think your work
is great.

... though there seemed to be a dust particle on the 300D sensor ;-)

sonny

I spent a day with a 300D taking balloon shots.
http://www.pbase.com/dazedgonebye/balloons
When I first held it, I was not in love. By the time I was a few
frames in, chasing balloons around, I no longer noticed it. It was
just another camera in my hands.
Ergonomics are highly subjective and, unless something is truly
horrible, you can get used to anything pretty quickly.

Steven Maniscalco
http://www.pbase.com/dazedgonebye

 

[Dave Lewis]

Before Canon comes out with something new, lets list Pentax *istDS
advantages over Canon EOS300D for the target market of those
upgrading from low-end film SLR or digital non-SLR.

Here's what we know so far based on the preview.
Please add or change if you see something I didn't - this was just
a quick look.

Metal subframe

both have it

DOF preview

both have it

2" LCD

I'm holding them side by side here and they look about the same to me

210,000 pixel LCD
Smaller

yep

Lighter

definitely not with similar lenses. The Rebel D is very very light

Higher-magnification viewfinder

yep and much brighter with the *istD

More frames burst (larger buffer)

but the Rebel D makes up for it with much faster focus

higher max ISO

Yep, but it doesn't go down to 100 like the Rebel D does

USB 2.0

Most of us never connect the camera directly to the computer anyway, we use a card reader

SD memory

I think the SD cards are an advantage over compact flash

Standard batteries (Another advantage for those moving from non-SLR
or from film)

Definitely a disadvantage. Smaller and more powerful Lion batteries are definitely a better choice. The one in the Rebel D is about the size of two AA's and will give you nearly as many shots as the four AA's in the *istd. That is one area where Pentax could make their camera smaller and lighter.

Larger sensor: 1.5 FOV crop

No practical difference there.

--
Dave Lewis