When do you know you are a pro?

[marlinspike]

I sold 5 pictures today from my smugmug website (for a total of 8, and the only pics up there from which I would expect people to buy - i.e. the soccer pics - were taken with a Canon G5. Now I have a rebel and am uploading new pics. With all these sales I have to ask, how does one know when he is technically a pro? I don't think skill is involved since there are such things as bad pro photographers.
Richard
--
http://davidson.smugmug.com
See my profile for equipment and wish list

 

[Paul Grupp]

Are you a pro? It depends on why, and who, you are asking.

Ask yourself -- if you are truly aspiring to be a professional, are you making enough money from your photography to support yourself in the manner in which you would like to become accustomed? If the answer is yes, you're probably a pro. If most of your income comes from sources other than photography, you're probably not a pro.

Ask the IRS -- they have clear rules about profitability and so forth. If you meet their criteria as a legitimate business, you're probably a pro.

My guess, from what you described, is that you are in fact, an amateur. In many many creative endeavors, amateurs ocassionally sell what they produce. Amateur musicians sometimes sell a song; amateur woodworkers sometimes sell a piece of furniture -- but this in and of itself doesn't make them pros.

You can call it whatever you like -- amateur, enthusiast, aspiring pro -- once your photo business is self-sustaining, you can definitely call yourself a pro. Before that happens you can call yourself a pro if you like, but you're probably just kidding yourself.

Regards,
Paul
http://www.bangbangphoto.com

I sold 5 pictures today from my smugmug website (for a total of 8,
and the only pics up there from which I would expect people to buy

• i.e. the soccer pics - were taken with a Canon G5. Now I have a

rebel and am uploading new pics. With all these sales I have to
ask, how does one know when he is technically a pro? I don't think
skill is involved since there are such things as bad pro
photographers.
Richard
--
http://davidson.smugmug.com
See my profile for equipment and wish list

 

[marlinspike]

Seems logical. I'm an amateur. Out of curiousity, what if this all takes off and I make enough to have to pay taxes (I gave smugmug my W-9), is there anything I need to do on my end, or does the W-9 satisfy everything? Also, what kinds of things are required to be able to deduct cameras as business expense. I don't count on this ever happening, but am just curious.
Richard

Ask yourself -- if you are truly aspiring to be a professional, are
you making enough money from your photography to support yourself
in the manner in which you would like to become accustomed? If the
answer is yes, you're probably a pro. If most of your income comes
from sources other than photography, you're probably not a pro.

Ask the IRS -- they have clear rules about profitability and so
forth. If you meet their criteria as a legitimate business, you're
probably a pro.

My guess, from what you described, is that you are in fact, an
amateur. In many many creative endeavors, amateurs ocassionally
sell what they produce. Amateur musicians sometimes sell a song;
amateur woodworkers sometimes sell a piece of furniture -- but this
in and of itself doesn't make them pros.

You can call it whatever you like -- amateur, enthusiast, aspiring
pro -- once your photo business is self-sustaining, you can
definitely call yourself a pro. Before that happens you can call
yourself a pro if you like, but you're probably just kidding
yourself.

Regards,
Paul
http://www.bangbangphoto.com

I sold 5 pictures today from my smugmug website (for a total of 8,
and the only pics up there from which I would expect people to buy

• i.e. the soccer pics - were taken with a Canon G5. Now I have a

rebel and am uploading new pics. With all these sales I have to
ask, how does one know when he is technically a pro? I don't think
skill is involved since there are such things as bad pro
photographers.
Richard
--
http://davidson.smugmug.com
See my profile for equipment and wish list

--

--
http://davidson.smugmug.com
See my profile for equipment and wish list

 

[Splash]

Ask yourself -- if you are truly aspiring to be a professional, are
you making enough money from your photography to support yourself
in the manner in which you would like to become accustomed? If the
answer is yes, you're probably a pro. If most of your income comes
from sources other than photography, you're probably not a pro.

Ask the IRS -- they have clear rules about profitability and so
forth. If you meet their criteria as a legitimate business, you're
probably a pro.

My guess, from what you described, is that you are in fact, an
amateur. In many many creative endeavors, amateurs ocassionally
sell what they produce. Amateur musicians sometimes sell a song;
amateur woodworkers sometimes sell a piece of furniture -- but this
in and of itself doesn't make them pros.

You can call it whatever you like -- amateur, enthusiast, aspiring
pro -- once your photo business is self-sustaining, you can
definitely call yourself a pro. Before that happens you can call
yourself a pro if you like, but you're probably just kidding
yourself.

Regards,
Paul
http://www.bangbangphoto.com

I sold 5 pictures today from my smugmug website (for a total of 8,
and the only pics up there from which I would expect people to buy

• i.e. the soccer pics - were taken with a Canon G5. Now I have a

rebel and am uploading new pics. With all these sales I have to
ask, how does one know when he is technically a pro? I don't think
skill is involved since there are such things as bad pro
photographers.
Richard
--
http://davidson.smugmug.com
See my profile for equipment and wish list

--

--
http://davidson.smugmug.com
See my profile for equipment and wish list

It depends on what state you're in, but in Michigan you have to declare your business (DBA, or "Doing Business As..."), get a sales tax license, and if you're going to have employees you'll need a federal employer number. Then, there are the local laws and ordinances, too. Once you have your tax licenses and have your business income buying supplies and paying the bills, then you can deduct your supplies, materials, rent, BUSINESS vehicle and/or mileage, camera, etc., etc.

Rick

--
'Effort equals Results' as told to Roger Penske by his father.

 

[nicktheman]

Im in australia,I have my photographic business regsitered for gst tax etc,but its joint with my plumbing swimming pool business,I do weekends photos and often fridays,the rest pools etc.?my accountant claims all my costs for botjh,and I put(nearly)all my profits from both through the books.

so im a pro!!!!!

all i need to do now is take more pics and less plumbing.!!!

nick

Ask yourself -- if you are truly aspiring to be a professional, are
you making enough money from your photography to support yourself
in the manner in which you would like to become accustomed? If the
answer is yes, you're probably a pro. If most of your income comes
from sources other than photography, you're probably not a pro.

Ask the IRS -- they have clear rules about profitability and so
forth. If you meet their criteria as a legitimate business, you're
probably a pro.

My guess, from what you described, is that you are in fact, an
amateur. In many many creative endeavors, amateurs ocassionally
sell what they produce. Amateur musicians sometimes sell a song;
amateur woodworkers sometimes sell a piece of furniture -- but this
in and of itself doesn't make them pros.

You can call it whatever you like -- amateur, enthusiast, aspiring
pro -- once your photo business is self-sustaining, you can
definitely call yourself a pro. Before that happens you can call
yourself a pro if you like, but you're probably just kidding
yourself.

Regards,
Paul
http://www.bangbangphoto.com

I sold 5 pictures today from my smugmug website (for a total of 8,
and the only pics up there from which I would expect people to buy

• i.e. the soccer pics - were taken with a Canon G5. Now I have a

rebel and am uploading new pics. With all these sales I have to
ask, how does one know when he is technically a pro? I don't think
skill is involved since there are such things as bad pro
photographers.
Richard
--
http://davidson.smugmug.com
See my profile for equipment and wish list

--

--
http://davidson.smugmug.com
See my profile for equipment and wish list

It depends on what state you're in, but in Michigan you have to
declare your business (DBA, or "Doing Business As..."), get a sales
tax license, and if you're going to have employees you'll need a
federal employer number. Then, there are the local laws and
ordinances, too. Once you have your tax licenses and have your
business income buying supplies and paying the bills, then you can
deduct your supplies, materials, rent, BUSINESS vehicle and/or
mileage, camera, etc., etc.

Rick

--
'Effort equals Results' as told to Roger Penske by his father.

 

[Patrick H Lockwood]

I sold 5 pictures today from my smugmug website (for a total of 8,
and the only pics up there from which I would expect people to buy

• i.e. the soccer pics - were taken with a Canon G5. Now I have a

rebel and am uploading new pics. With all these sales I have to
ask, how does one know when he is technically a pro? I don't think
skill is involved since there are such things as bad pro
photographers.
Richard
--
http://davidson.smugmug.com
See my profile for equipment and wish list

When you can tell people you don't have a "day job".

LOL

Patrick

 

[wgc]

I sold 5 pictures today from my smugmug website (for a total of 8,
and the only pics up there from which I would expect people to buy

• i.e. the soccer pics - were taken with a Canon G5. Now I have a

rebel and am uploading new pics. With all these sales I have to
ask, how does one know when he is technically a pro? I don't think
skill is involved since there are such things as bad pro
photographers.
Richard
--
http://davidson.smugmug.com
See my profile for equipment and wish list

--
Let the light in! Walt
[email protected]

 

[DaveKennedy]

As long as this is a job where you don't have to go to school/get licensed/join a guild...heck buy an expensive camera, a big gray lens, hang a piece of paper around you neck saying "Press"...guess what, you're a pro.

DK

http://www.sportsshooter.com/davek

 

[k4lyp]

When you are good enough to make a living off your work all the time.

When you realize this isn't the place where the real pros hang out!

When you need help to add up your quarterly taxes.

 

[Boxbrownie]

When you realize this isn't the place where the real pros hang out!

And of course I would not have dared write that! ;o)

When you put down your camera and don't pick it up until you HAVE to.......then your a pro.........

Best regards David

 

[Peter Horner]

When you make a living from photography!

I do get tired of seeing these discussions of what it is to be a pro ...

 

[Ger Bee]

.... for something you don’t deserve (in your mind) and then they ask you to do it again next week and they tell their friends and they too start handing you wads of money.

Like it or not now, you have to do the same thing, the same way for the same price ..... it can be good, great, fantastic and "stuck in a rut" hard work too. But as long as they keep paying you ... you're it.

 

[marlinspike]

When you make a living from photography!

I do get tired of seeing these discussions of what it is to be a
pro ...

Sorry, I didn't realize this is an oft discussed topic.
Richard
--
http://davidson.smugmug.com
See my profile for equipment and wish list

 

[washy21]

Some pros earn a fortune, some barely survive yet are still definately pros.

It is not always what you know but who you know (or who you force yourself to get to know by hook or by crook)

Being a pro means so much more than just taking photographs, I can't believe that so many people debate this issue because the answer is so obvious.

Basically just ask yourself:

Am I able or working towards consistently servicing a market by supplying photographs at a profit, which will enable me to have an income that will be sufficient for my needs ?

Am I totally geared up with all the required business forms and paperwork in order to deal with invoices, purchase orders, model releases, bookeeping, etc, etc, etc?

Do I have business stationery and other professional looking identity documents.

The list could go on and on. Just because you sell a few prints it won,t make you a pro. It is the culmination of a lot of factors.

I am a pro because I work at it full time and when not shooting for clients I am working on getting more business, improving my technique, and sorting out all the business corres that arrives and has to be filed.

I am by no means earning a great income but I live this business its trials and tribulations 24hrs a day.

Thats my opinion anyway

john

 

[marlinspike]

I sold 5 pictures today from my smugmug website (for a total of 8,
and the only pics up there from which I would expect people to buy

• i.e. the soccer pics - were taken with a Canon G5. Now I have a

rebel and am uploading new pics. With all these sales I have to
ask, how does one know when he is technically a pro? I don't think
skill is involved since there are such things as bad pro
photographers.
Richard
--
http://davidson.smugmug.com
See my profile for equipment and wish list

--
http://davidson.smugmug.com
See my profile for equipment and wish list

 

[washy21]

That is a very good question and one I would like to hear some comments on as well.

I am going to be a bit contoversial here and say that a lot of photographers who are professional, ask questions in this forum that to others may seem like basic kids stuff and that includes MYSELF for starters.

I think that digital photography is still in such infancy that everyone is struggling to come to terms with it in some areas. Some brilliant film photographers are probably finding digital workflows hard to grasp and people like me find myself being strong at digital stuff but wish we had the technical expertise of the more established film based photographers.

I have found that in these forums there exist a whole load of people who are so kind in the advice that they are willing to share and I firmly sit in this camp myself. I have a rival photographer who lives near me yet I still help him out with photoshop and in return he shares his knowledge in other areas.

On the other hand, there are also people in this forum who hate newcomers because they feel that they are decreasing the opportunities for themselves .

I personally think that the word pro is a bit outdated because nowadays people exist who are multiskilled and do not just photograph for a living. I for instance recently produced a local government branding campaign, completing everything myself to a very high standard which included Logo design, corporate identity, stationery, flyers, brochures, exhibition panels, web site, custom typeface and typography, cd rom showreel and of course the photography. So what this means is that todays people are mixing things up a bit and believe me sometimes the client really benefits.

Before you ask, I don't just dable at graphic design and I am not some celebrity know it all designer who boasts big names like Nike and Sony. I have achieved what I have done through sheer dedication, study study study, passion, plenty of tears and tantrums and late nights when I can't get any work and begining to think of packing it in.

In my view anyone who is serious about trying to earn a living in photography can deem themselves a pro. I suppose what people in this forum don't like are lowballers who are most certainly tearing this business apart by doing work for nothing all the time because they have a regular day job.

However when these people realise that it is very hard work they will disappear and the industry will rise again.

So thats my opinion "the pros are dead, long live the pros"

 

[Carl Feather]

When you get only 4-6 hours of sleep a night and your waking hours are spent trying to make enough money to survive as a pro.

 

[marlinspike]

When you get only 4-6 hours of sleep a night

Try 3-5

and your waking hours
are spent trying to make enough money to survive as a pro.

Well, I drive the school van on weekend nights to make money for photo equipment. Oh, and I made a $17.91 sale ($12.96 profit) today!
Richard
--
http://davidson.smugmug.com
See my profile for equipment and wish list

 

[weirdrob]

I sold 5 pictures today from my smugmug website (for a total of 8,
and the only pics up there from which I would expect people to buy

• i.e. the soccer pics - were taken with a Canon G5. Now I have a

rebel and am uploading new pics. With all these sales I have to
ask, how does one know when he is technically a pro? I don't think
skill is involved since there are such things as bad pro
photographers.
Richard
--
http://davidson.smugmug.com
See my profile for equipment and wish list

--
Rob Wierman
http://www.pbase.com/weirdrob/root