Some questions RE: Panasonic ZS40 vs Casio ZR700 & ZR850

[Erik Ohlson]

I'm in the market for a pocketable travel zoom camera to capture the beauty of Indonesia and Malaysia with photos that can selectively be enlarged, say, to 12" x16"--and framed for wall display.

I previously used a FujiFilm JZ300 purchased a few years back with beautiful colors, but serious imitations (12MP, 10X zoom). I missed out on some magical photos of orangutans in Borneo because I needed to go beyond 10X optical zoom into the digital zoom realm to "capture" the picture . . . and the results were too noisy to enlarge for the size prints I desire. Here's one of the funky Fuji orangutan photos that just loses its resolution with enlargement:

[ATTACH alt="Orangutans "in their own world" in jungles of Sarawak, Malaysia (Borneo)"]834936[/ATTACH]
Orangutans "in their own world" in jungles of Sarawak, Malaysia (Borneo)

This next trip I don't want history to repeat itself. I was prepared to purchase the Panny until I just learned about the Casio ZR850. At $200USD less--ca. 50% the cost of the Panny--I'm wondering whether it might be worth the risk to go with this camera, especially considering it may be damaged or stolen during my next overseas adventure starting December.

Also, there's the "newness" factor: I believe that the ZR850 is just a few months "old" . . . whereas if I buy the Panny now, it may already be replaced by a new model--ZS45?--by the time I return in March. I need a camera now, but can replace it with an updated Panny model later if the Casio disappoints during my trip.

I'm most interested in IQ for a variety of environments--from fast movement capture (Balinese dancing) to stills taken in low light to intense tropical sun. Some photos will be close-ups, others zooming in on wildlife and landscapes. Things like GPS and Art shots are not so important. (I tend to do my own post-processing, and prefer to capture "natural" images.)

The Panny first attracted me by its 30X zoom. I see that the Casio ZR850 is only 18X zoom

Curiously, I found that the 18x Casio zoom - used with "Extended zoom", is actually sharper at the same actual "print" size, than the ZS40.

ZS40 at 30x zoom. The cracked paint post & iorn rail are about 25 feet closer to the camera than the sign. Focused on the sign. Best of 3 handheld shots:



Casio ZR700. !8x zoom + Extended zoom (no re-sizing needed, this was SOOC):



Note, too, that the background foliage, at least 50-75 feet past the sign on the other side of the road is sharper.

Both of these are Straight Out Of Camera ("SOOC") each selected from 3 handheld shots with each camera to eliminate possible camera movement - there were NO "reject" shots from either camera.

The only "PP" was to use Photoshop Elements' "Save for Web" to reduce file size.

The OIS on both cameras worked beautifully: the ZS40 looked "rock steady" when viewing the scene before shooting, and the Casio appeared to jump around more but visibly "locked on" when the button was pressed.

So the ZS40 is a bit better to use as a "Telescope" than the ZR700, but photographically, the 700 wins.

. . . but if I can zoom out to maximum optical zoom--or beyond in the digital realm--and receive sharp, stable photos, that should be fine. I don't care if a camera can zoom out 30X, 40X, or more if the effective range for good IQ is only a portion of that (image stabilization & pixellation issues?)

I have had a ZS40 and a Casio ZR700 which differs only in minor ways from the Zr850. I have also has a Panasonic ZS19 & ZS25 (broke the 19 & the 25 is lost).

At equivalent (20x) zoom, the ZS25 was a bit sharper or at least "crisper" than the ZS40.

On the whole, my preference is for the ZR700, which I used as my main camera on a 6-week trip in Europe & the UK this summer. I had my Panasonic ZS25 as back-up, but never used it.

In 2012, I used the now broken ZS19 in Japan - some of the shots from that are on my flickr site:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ohlsonmh

On paper, other attractions of the Panny include its EVF (small as it is), and NFC capabilities for photo transfer: my smartphone is NFC enabled, so this feature would be convenient, although not essential if a camera offers good wifi photo transfer.

I had long advocated an EVF on Travel-Zoom cameras, but now that I always use a Clearviewer, I found the ZS40's EVF too small to really see the image or the on-screen icons, &tc.

Even with Panny's EVF, though, I'm considering getting a ClearViewer (www.clearviewer.com) for either camera. This will negate the EVF advantage of the Panny over the Casio . . . so it really comes down to the best "bang for the buck" in terms of IQ in terms of all lighting and subjects' activity levels (from stationary to fast movement).

I strongly suggest the Clearviewer - I always use one; among other things, when I carry my camera in a front trouser pocket, lens in toward my leg, the Clearviewer tends to take any bumps, rather than let the screen take it.

Specifically,

1. How do you feel that the Casio and Panny match up in IQ in different lighting conditions and at different zooms? Would both cameras produce adequate print enlargements in the order of 12" x 16"?

Both will do 16x20 just fine, but the Caio EX-ZR700 is sharper at full zoom.

2. How do the video (HD) qualities of the Panny and Casio compare? (The video is a nice "extra," but I'm primarily interested in "stills" and the ability to enlarge and frame selected images. Still, I may want to capture some "stills" while recording video. Both cameras can do that.)

I have no idea how the videos compare. I suggest looking at the Casio forum and asking this question there.

Thanks for taking the time to read and answer. I'm willing to spend more for the Panny--but only if its cost differential vs. the Casio ZR850 is supported by superior performance.

I see that you are also in California - I'm in the SF Bay Area I'd be happy to let you try my ZR700.

I welcome your advice/impressions.

-- hide signature --

Semangat (California)

--
"Measure wealth not by things you have but by things for which you would not take money"
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ [email protected]

--
"Measure wealth not by things you have but by things for which you would not take money"
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ [email protected]

 

[Semangat]

I'm in the market for a pocketable travel zoom camera to capture the beauty of Indonesia and Malaysia with photos that can selectively be enlarged, say, to 12" x16"--and framed for wall display.

I previously used a FujiFilm JZ300 purchased a few years back with beautiful colors, but serious imitations (12MP, 10X zoom). I missed out on some magical photos of orangutans in Borneo because I needed to go beyond 10X optical zoom into the digital zoom realm to "capture" the picture . . . and the results were too noisy to enlarge for the size prints I desire. Here's one of the funky Fuji orangutan photos that just loses its resolution with enlargement:

[ATTACH alt="Orangutans "in their own world" in jungles of Sarawak, Malaysia (Borneo)"]834936[/ATTACH]
Orangutans "in their own world" in jungles of Sarawak, Malaysia (Borneo)

This next trip I don't want history to repeat itself. I was prepared to purchase the Panny until I just learned about the Casio ZR850. At $200USD less--ca. 50% the cost of the Panny--I'm wondering whether it might be worth the risk to go with this camera, especially considering it may be damaged or stolen during my next overseas adventure starting December.

Also, there's the "newness" factor: I believe that the ZR850 is just a few months "old" . . . whereas if I buy the Panny now, it may already be replaced by a new model--ZS45?--by the time I return in March. I need a camera now, but can replace it with an updated Panny model later if the Casio disappoints during my trip.

I'm most interested in IQ for a variety of environments--from fast movement capture (Balinese dancing) to stills taken in low light to intense tropical sun. Some photos will be close-ups, others zooming in on wildlife and landscapes. Things like GPS and Art shots are not so important. (I tend to do my own post-processing, and prefer to capture "natural" images.)

The Panny first attracted me by its 30X zoom. I see that the Casio ZR850 is only 18X zoom

Curiously, I found that the 18x Casio zoom - used with "Extended zoom", is actually sharper at the same actual "print" size, than the ZS40.

ZS40 at 30x zoom. The cracked paint post & iorn rail are about 25 feet closer to the camera than the sign. Focused on the sign. Best of 3 handheld shots:



Casio ZR700. !8x zoom + Extended zoom (no re-sizing needed, this was SOOC):



Note, too, that the background foliage, at least 50-75 feet past the sign on the other side of the road is sharper.

Both of these are Straight Out Of Camera ("SOOC") each selected from 3 handheld shots with each camera to eliminate possible camera movement - there were NO "reject" shots from either camera.

The only "PP" was to use Photoshop Elements' "Save for Web" to reduce file size.

I agree. I like the sharpness and depth of field better in the Casio shot. This seems to suggest that the Casio's Multi SP zoom, which can extend the 18x optical to 36x, is competitive with the ZS40's 30x optical zoom.

The OIS on both cameras worked beautifully: the ZS40 looked "rock steady" when viewing the scene before shooting, and the Casio appeared to jump around more but visibly "locked on" when the button was pressed.

So the ZS40 is a bit better to use as a "Telescope" than the ZR700, but photographically, the 700 wins.

It's the photographic quality which wins my vote, even though stable 'telescoping" is nice.

. . . but if I can zoom out to maximum optical zoom--or beyond in the digital realm--and receive sharp, stable photos, that should be fine. I don't care if a camera can zoom out 30X, 40X, or more if the effective range for good IQ is only a portion of that (image stabilization & pixellation issues?)

I have had a ZS40 and a Casio ZR700 which differs only in minor ways from the Zr850. I have also has a Panasonic ZS19 & ZS25 (broke the 19 & the 25 is lost).

At equivalent (20x) zoom, the ZS25 was a bit sharper or at least "crisper" than the ZS40.

On the whole, my preference is for the ZR700, which I used as my main camera on a 6-week trip in Europe & the UK this summer. I had my Panasonic ZS25 as back-up, but never used it.

Thanks Erik. The opinions of a professional photographer/lithographer mean alot to a newbie like me. Based on what I've read and seen on this forum, I'm prepared to go with the Casio ZR850 (with the added wifi capabilities) . . . plus a tripod mount ClearViewer. If it doesn't work out on my upcoming return trip to Indonesia and Malaysia, I'll still have $ left over to replace it with a different camera--maybe the ZS40 (or its replacement by then).

In 2012, I used the now broken ZS19 in Japan - some of the shots from that are on my flickr site:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ohlsonmh

On paper, other attractions of the Panny include its EVF (small as it is), and NFC capabilities for photo transfer: my smartphone is NFC enabled, so this feature would be convenient, although not essential if a camera offers good wifi photo transfer.

I had long advocated an EVF on Travel-Zoom cameras, but now that I always use a Clearviewer, I found the ZS40's EVF too small to really see the image or the on-screen icons, &tc.

I hadn't known about the ClearViewer (or the Casio ZR850) before. The ClearViewer sounds like a simple, ingenious device. I sent an email to clearviewer.com to find out if there's a version that works with the ZR850 . . . and also how a ClearViewer will perform with someone wearing eyeglasses (both plain glasses and polarized sunglasses).

Even with Panny's EVF, though, I'm considering getting a ClearViewer (www.clearviewer.com) for either camera. This will negate the EVF advantage of the Panny over the Casio . . . so it really comes down to the best "bang for the buck" in terms of IQ in terms of all lighting and subjects' activity levels (from stationary to fast movement).

I strongly suggest the Clearviewer - I always use one; among other things, when I carry my camera in a front trouser pocket, lens in toward my leg, the Clearviewer tends to take any bumps, rather than let the screen take it.

Good recommendation. I'm amazed at how portable the ClearViewer is! I was only familiar with big hoods, +/- foldable, which take some of the portability out of "pocketable" cameras.

Specifically,

1. How do you feel that the Casio and Panny match up in IQ in different lighting conditions and at different zooms? Would both cameras produce adequate print enlargements in the order of 12" x 16"?

Both will do 16x20 just fine, but the Caio EX-ZR700 is sharper at full zoom.

2. How do the video (HD) qualities of the Panny and Casio compare? (The video is a nice "extra," but I'm primarily interested in "stills" and the ability to enlarge and frame selected images. Still, I may want to capture some "stills" while recording video. Both cameras can do that.)

I have no idea how the videos compare. I suggest looking at the Casio forum and asking this question there.

I still haven't gotten any feedback on the Casio's video quality. I can't imagine that it can match the ZS40's. Still, this is not a critical issue since I mainly take snapshots.

Thanks for taking the time to read and answer. I'm willing to spend more for the Panny--but only if its cost differential vs. the Casio ZR850 is supported by superior performance.

I see that you are also in California - I'm in the SF Bay Area I'd be happy to let you try my ZR700.

That's a very kind offer, Erik. I'll go ahead and order my ZR850 (from Hong Kong, it seems . . . I hope that political protests don't interrupt commerce). If I have questions once I receive it and start experimenting, I hope that I can contact you.

Where along the Bay Area Coast do you live? Pacifica? Half Moon Bay? I lived before in San Francisco, San Mateo and San Jose. After 6 years in New Mexico, I recently returned to California . . . this time by the eastern edge of Sacramento.

I welcome your advice/impressions.

-- hide signature --

Semangat (California)

--
"Measure wealth not by things you have but by things for which you would not take money"
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ [email protected]

Great quotation. It reflects my personal philosophies as I've entered my Old Ages.

Thanks again, Erik!

Semangat ( = "spirit" in Indonesian)

--
"Measure wealth not by things you have but by things for which you would not take money"
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ [email protected]

 

[lgflorin]

For NFC you can use Samsung TecTile programable NFC tags.

http://www.samsung.com/us/microsite/tectile/

 

[Erik Ohlson]

Semangat wrote, in part:
Where along the Bay Area Coast do you live? Pacifica? Half Moon Bay? I lived before in San Francisco, San Mateo and San Jose. After 6 years in New Mexico, I recently returned to California . . . this time by the eastern edge of Sacramento.

I welcome your advice/impressions.

-- hide signature --

Semangat (California)

--

"Measure wealth not by things you have but by things for which you would not take money"
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ [email protected]

Great quotation. It reflects my personal philosophies as I've entered my Old Ages.

Thanks again, Erik!

Semangat ( = "spirit" in Indonesian)

--
"Measure wealth not by things you have but by things for which you would not take money"
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ [email protected]

Morgan Hill / Gilroy area.







--
"Measure wealth not by things you have but by things for which you would not take money"
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ [email protected]

 

[IPost]

Hi,

First time poster on dpreview. Going on a 5-week trip to Europe in about a month so time to upgrade my old Nikon S50 point and shoot camera to something that can better capture the numerous photo ops. Need help, please, deciding between two cameras - Panasonic ZS40 and Casio ZR850.

My Needs

Things are more complicated as I'm partially sighted. So pardon me for this longer than normal post. I can see enough to not run into things, LOL, while walking but not well enough to successfully use many of the manual settings on a camera or focus properly. My immediate goal with a new camera is to take photos of buildings, mountains, water, and things seen on city walks, at farmer's markets as well as in dark museums and night scenes.

My hope is to get some shots that are worthy of being enlarged (up to 11 x 14 or so) and frame them. The camera will be in my bag at all times when on vacation and around town at home so I'd like a small and lightweight camera which produces very good image quality for a travel camera. Not interested in lens changes. More importantly, it needs to have very good and reliable auto focus and auto settings since it'd more or less function as my eyes in those areas and, I wouldn't know it was wrong until it's too late to take another photo. I am able to select the scene in the camera settings ("fireworks" for example) and turn on Flash. Ninety percent of the time, I imagine it'll be on auto pilot.

I prefer to have prints that are more vivid/saturated right "out of the box" as I can see them better with more contrast. I've never played with photo processing software such as Photo Shop . Maybe I could learn to do some of that. The Movie function is not important to me but recording people in motion could be very cool. I also plan to multitask and use the camera in unfamiliar surroundings to zoom in for example, on street signs and determine what street I'm on. So grateful to have these toys!

Regarding budget, my first preference is to get something that works for me. A close second is not to spend a lot since my plan is to also buy a very gently used Sony RX 100Miii for $600-650 which would be used in low light conditions, night scenes and where zoom isn't needed. The Casio seems to get good reviews and is quite a bit cheaper than the Panasonic. So, I could justify buying both cameras, assuming they'd both last about five years.

-Has anyone played with the auto settings on the Panasonic ZS40 or Casio EX-ZR850? If so, which one is better?

-Is one of these markedly better than the other for auto focus?

-Does either of these cameras provide a more vivid or saturated photo?

-Does one of these two have a larger text size in the menus?

-Is the GPS on the Panasonic ZS40 useful? I understand this Panny no longer has maps. Is this feature useful for more than just labeling the object in the photo? For example, can it tell me where I'm at (after taking a photo of something very close to me)? I don't have a smartphone but will be bringing my wifi-only Samsung Tab S 10.5 tablet with me.

Many thanks for any assistance you can provide me!

 

[Erik Ohlson]

Hi,

First time poster on dpreview. Going on a 5-week trip to Europe in about a month so time to upgrade my old Nikon S50 point and shoot camera to something that can better capture the numerous photo ops. Need help, please, deciding between two cameras - Panasonic ZS40 and Casio ZR850.

My Needs

Things are more complicated as I'm partially sighted. So pardon me for this longer than normal post. I can see enough to not run into things, LOL, while walking but not well enough to successfully use many of the manual settings on a camera or focus properly.

This reminds me of a discussion about 2 years ago on the Panasonic Forum where it turned out - amazingly - that the person with the vision problem (macular degeneration) lives only a few miles from me. On a world-wide site!

We got together so we could discuss the cameras hands-on.

BTW, I am in the SanJose, California area.

My immediate goal with a new camera is to take photos of buildings, mountains, water, and things seen on city walks, at farmer's markets as well as in dark museums and night scenes.

You ask about the Panasonic ZS40 & Casio ZR850. When it comes to the Panasonic, I would actually suggest the ZS25 as it is A0 Less expensive and B) you aren't paying for an EVF when there IS a better way, check this thread, my post is the first answer:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3744732#forum-post-54633436

When I visited the guy I mention, above, he was VERY PLEASED with the Clerarviewer.

With it on my ZS25 he said he could see - through the camera, far better than without the camera.

My hope is to get some shots that are worthy of being enlarged (up to 11 x 14 or so) and frame them. The camera will be in my bag at all times when on vacation and around town at home so I'd like a small and lightweight camera which produces very good image quality for a travel camera. Not interested in lens changes. More importantly, it needs to have very good and reliable auto focus and auto settings since it'd more or less function as my eyes in those areas and, I wouldn't know it was wrong until it's too late to take another photo. I am able to select the scene in the camera settings ("fireworks" for example) and turn on Flash. Ninety percent of the time, I imagine it'll be on auto pilot.

I prefer to have prints that are more vivid/saturated right "out of the box" as I can see them better with more contrast.

For "right out of the box" the Panasinic ZS25 has an edge: the "VIVID" setting, much like the old Fuji Velvia film.

I've never played with photo processing software such as Photo Shop . Maybe I could learn to do some of that.

This would be even better, as it can be used to greatly enhance just those aspects of a photo that you want: you can make them as vivid as you wish, and even do it to just selected parts of an image.

Photoshop Elements can be bought very cheaply "used" because most scanners come with a "bundled" PSE suitable for either Mac or Windows, and the scanner buyer often doesn't need it so it shows up on eBay for great prices.

PSE is strange to get used to, but author Scott Kelby has books specifically written for most versions which take a different view of it: rather than expect the user to learn to think like the Adobe nerds who write the PSE software, Kelby just makes it like a cookbook: you look up what you want to do, and then follow the "recipie".

I also happen to have a very basic tutorial which I've written up for several people who have asked for help getting started with Elements. You would be welcome to that, as well.

The Movie function is not important to me but recording people in motion could be very cool. I also plan to multitask and use the camera in unfamiliar surroundings to zoom in for example, on street signs and determine what street I'm on. So grateful to have these toys!

I have long used my super-zoom cameras in just this way and it is so nice to have such a camera in my pocket, 24/7 to do so (as well as "taking notes" and using the small camera to look in inconvenient places, even places where it would otherwise be impossible to see, like in a place one's head simply won't fit.

Regarding budget, my first preference is to get something that works for me. A close second is not to spend a lot since my plan is to also buy a very gently used Sony RX 100Miii for $600-650 which would be used in low light conditions, night scenes and where zoom isn't needed. The Casio seems to get good reviews and is quite a bit cheaper than the Panasonic. So, I could justify buying both cameras, assuming they'd both last about five years.

-Has anyone played with the auto settings on the Panasonic ZS40 or Casio EX-ZR850? If so, which one is better?

With the Panasonic, I leave the camera in "A" (aperture) mode set to ƒ3.3 - it's widest setting so even when zoomed it still maintains the widest setting available at the focal length. I also leave the camera on "-.66 EV" for a slightly darker image which allows me to easily extend the Dynamic Range using "lighten shadows" in PSE.

With the Casio, I usually have it in "Best Shot - HDR" at the lowest HDR setting, for the same reason as above.

-Is one of these markedly better than the other for auto focus?

The Casio seems better, particularly as to depth of field (see the images of the signs on my original post - second post in this thread - the foliage in the distance is much more distinct, as well as the sign being sharper.)

-Does either of these cameras provide a more vivid or saturated photo?

The Panasinic, with "Vivid" setting - discussed above. I'd get a Casio & increase vividness in PSE.

-Does one of these two have a larger text size in the menus?

The Panasonic - but with a Clearviewer, that isn't a consideration as the LCD is magnifie quite a bit, and the Casio screen looks a bit "crisper" with 921,000 dots to Panasonic's 460,000 dots.

-Is the GPS on the Panasonic ZS40 useful? I understand this Panny no longer has maps. Is this feature useful for more than just labeling the object in the photo? For example, can it tell me where I'm at (after taking a photo of something very close to me)? I don't have a smartphone but will be bringing my wifi-only Samsung Tab S 10.5 tablet with me.

I have no idea about any in-camera GPS, sorry. When I do use GPS it's a hand-held GPS unit. I don't have a camera or car with GPS.

Many thanks for any assistance you can provide me!

I sure hope this helps, and I hope you do re-visit the site: we see quite a few people who only visit these forums once ,to ask a question, and then never post again possibly having expected answers sooner. But the answers have to wait until someone notices the question and feels they have something to contribute.

I will be happy to answer any more questions you may have.









--
"Measure wealth not by things you have but by things for which you would not take money"
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ [email protected]

 

[JABB66]

My immediate goal with a new camera is to take photos of buildings, mountains, water, and things seen on city walks, at farmer's markets as well as in dark museums and night scenes.

For these kind of photos, the HDR from Casios gives excellent results, HS Nigh Scene for very dark situations or use the Premium Auto Pro for reasonable results in variable conditions.

I prefer to have prints that are more vivid/saturated right "out of the box" as I can see them better with more contrast.

For "right out of the box" the Panasinic ZS25 has an edge: the "VIVID" setting, much like the old Fuji Velvia film.

For those more vivid kind of photos, you can increase saturation and contrast in the Casios. I would suggest

Saturation +2

Contrast +1 (to keep Dynamic Range)

or, maybe you would love the HDR-Art mode

https://www.google.com/search?q=cas...bCLG8GAU8KbgKgO&ved=0CCAQsAQ&biw=1271&bih=606

Regarding budget, my first preference is to get something that works for me. A close second is not to spend a lot since my plan is to also buy a very gently used Sony RX 100Miii for $600-650 which would be used in low light conditions, night scenes and where zoom isn't needed.

The Casio EX-10 it's a premium compact at a good prize now, $409 at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00GMY4RGG/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

Has a sensor smaller (1/(1.7") than the Sony's and less resolution (12 Mp instead of 20) but with the special Casio modes for low light and night scenes, it's an excellent option.

And has a bigger screen (3.5" instead of the usual 3").

--
José Antonio

 

[IPost]

Thanks, Eric especially, and Jose, for the detailed responses! Extremely helpful! This is a great forum and resource! There are lots of us who have partial sight and love to take photos. Maybe there should be a forum for us. Sure, the photos will never be as great or creative as those taken by someone who has perfect vision. But it’s a wonderful way to express myself visually and the auto settings sure do help. Photo Shop sounds like it’s something I could do and it’d fix some of the operator error which is bound to occur, smile. I’ll also look into the Clearviewer and report on that. This would likely be good for baby boomers. Research has shown that as this group ages, they are sooner or later likely to have vision loss. This could help them keep shooting.

Onto to the camera selection, I’ve been reading reviews and more posts. It seems like the image quality of the Panny ZS40 isn’t quite as good as the Casio. Plus, I learned that in 2012, Panny stopped adding more places to their GPS. So, decided to go with a Casio. Was about ready to order a gently used Casio 850 from Amazon Warehouse dirt cheap when I read posts in the Casio forum announcing the new Casio EX-ZR3500 and, that Eric has ordered one. J A lot of unknowns about the 3500 quality-wise yet but other Casios seem to get good reviews on dpreview.

So, I took a leap of faith late last week and ordered the Casio 3500 from Amazon.

Some had asked about US buying experiences if purchasing Casio cameras which are not sold in the US. If you order this camera from Amazon, you’ll currently see it’s sold by Sunset Electronics and Fumfie and some others. I’d recommend not ordering from (at least) those two directly as reviews for them indicate more than a few unhappy customers (slow delivery, bait and switch tactics, slow reimbursement with returns). I ordered the 3500 and in my case, it is stated as being, “sold by Fumfie and fulfilled by Amazon”. Since the item is fulfilled by Amazon, it’s already in the Amazon warehouse so prompt delivery should not be an issue and I don’t have to deal with Fumfie. Price: $395 bundled - including shipping. White in color. Should arrive on Thursday. (I have Amazon Prime.) I have 30 days to return it – and that is to Amazon not the vendor. Since my 30 days would be up while I’m on my trip, I had concerns about what would happen if it broke while overseas being that I couldn’t easily return it. Amazon said in that case, they could make an exception. Somewhat related, Amazon said if I had any issues after the return period, they’d give a refund minus a restocking fee of maybe 10%. It would not be an exchange. I confirmed this with another Amazon rep today. Hoping it doesn’t break.

As for the Casio 3500, there is less zoom than the Casio 850. But I like some of the new features the 3500 offers and, while I’m not an expert, it seems the 3500 has better specs. Confirmed with Casio on Friday that there is no warranty support for those residing in the US. I live in the US. It’d be nice to have that but I have pretty much lost faith in warranties as oftentimes, just refurbs (if you’re lucky to get that) are sent if new one has malfunctioned. Also, high repair costs may be added even while in warranty. The human tech support would be nice. Hoping I’ll be OK with the manual as for the most part, I’m going to use the auto mode for the majority of the time.

Is the Casio 3500 generally-speaking, a newer generation of the Casio 850?

Information on the Casio website seems to indicate the 3500 will provide better quality photos in general and in low light conditions than the 850. Are you experts getting this same impression? Or, is it marketing hype? I’m aware that few folks have this camera in hand.

If I was going to buy the Casio 850 or Panny, my plan was to also get a gently used Sony RX100iii. Now that the Casio 3500 is on its way to me, I’m wondering if I need to get the Sony after all. Based on what is known at this time about the 3500, any idea what I’d be missing out on when shooting if I bought just the 3500 (and not the Sony as well)? Again, in the short term, my need is to generate approx. 11 x 14 size prints which would be framed. Do you think generally speaking someone would be able to tell if there was more noise, etc. in that size print with the Casio 3500 vs. the Sony RXiii?

Jose, I appreciate your Casio EX-10 suggestion! The larger screen size, etc. sounds helpful however, it only has an optical zoom of 4x and my goal is to have greater zoom than my current camera rather than less. Jose and Eric, I did see photos using the HDR ART setting on the Casio site. Indeed, it does look like something that’d work for me.

 

[Cyril Catt]

IPost wrote: Thanks, Eric especially, and Jose, for the detailed responses! Extremely helpful! This is a great forum and resource! There are lots of us who have partial sight and love to take photos. Maybe there should be a forum for us. Sure, the photos will never be as great or creative as those taken by someone who has perfect vision. But it’s a wonderful way to express myself visually and the auto settings sure do help. Photo Shop sounds like it’s something I could do and it’d fix some of the operator error which is bound to occur, smile. I’ll also look into the Clearviewer and report on that. This would likely be good for baby boomers. Research has shown that as this group ages, they are sooner or later likely to have vision loss. This could help them keep shooting.

Digicams are certainly useful tools for a number of situations other than taking portraits. I started using them as portable copiers, when doing archival work in libraries. With a computer they can enhance the visibility of faded brown ink on ageing yellowing paper. With macro or zoom capabilities they can act as recording magnifiers or telescopes. When travelling the're useful as graphic notebooks, to copy tickets, passports, timetables, etc. when travelling "just in case" things get lost.

Though my eyesight is still reasonable (with glasses, and my cataracts replaced) but though my hands are not as steady as they used to be, my Casio 800 seems to overcome the problem and get reasonable steady shots, even with quick snaps from moving vehicles.

Onto to the camera selection, I’ve been reading reviews and more posts. It seems like the image quality of the Panny ZS40 isn’t quite as good as the Casio. Plus, I learned that in 2012, Panny stopped adding more places to their GPS. So, decided to go with a Casio. Was about ready to order a gently used Casio 850 from Amazon Warehouse dirt cheap when I read posts in the Casio forum announcing the new Casio EX-ZR3500 and, that Eric has ordered one. J A lot of unknowns about the 3500 quality-wise yet but other Casios seem to get good reviews on dpreview.

So, I took a leap of faith late last week and ordered the Casio 3500 from Amazon.

Some had asked about US buying experiences if purchasing Casio cameras which are not sold in the US. If you order this camera from Amazon, you’ll currently see it’s sold by Sunset Electronics and Fumfie and some others. I’d recommend not ordering from (at least) those two directly as reviews for them indicate more than a few unhappy customers (slow delivery, bait and switch tactics, slow reimbursement with returns). I ordered the 3500 and in my case, it is stated as being, “sold by Fumfie and fulfilled by Amazon”. Since the item is fulfilled by Amazon, it’s already in the Amazon warehouse so prompt delivery should not be an issue and I don’t have to deal with Fumfie. Price: $395 bundled - including shipping. White in color. Should arrive on Thursday. (I have Amazon Prime.) I have 30 days to return it – and that is to Amazon not the vendor. Since my 30 days would be up while I’m on my trip, I had concerns about what would happen if it broke while overseas being that I couldn’t easily return it. Amazon said in that case, they could make an exception. Somewhat related, Amazon said if I had any issues after the return period, they’d give a refund minus a restocking fee of maybe 10%. It would not be an exchange. I confirmed this with another Amazon rep today. Hoping it doesn’t break.

Here in Australia, there seems to be only a couple of retailers, with only a few models, so the 850, or 3500 can only be sourced through on line purchases from vendors about which I know nothing.

As for the Casio 3500, there is less zoom than the Casio 850. But I like some of the new features the 3500 offers and, while I’m not an expert, it seems the 3500 has better specs. Confirmed with Casio on Friday that there is no warranty support for those residing in the US. I live in the US. It’d be nice to have that but I have pretty much lost faith in warranties as oftentimes, just refurbs (if you’re lucky to get that) are sent if new one has malfunctioned. Also, high repair costs may be added even while in warranty. The human tech support would be nice. Hoping I’ll be OK with the manual as for the most part, I’m going to use the auto mode for the majority of the time.

Is the Casio 3500 generally-speaking, a newer generation of the Casio 850?

It doesn't look like it. With a new, larger sensor, with fewer pixels, it should have improved picture quality in lower light situations. It also has a new lens, with shorter zoom than the 850, - so that is as yet an unknown factor. Though of similar resolution, the LCD screen tilts, and there are a few more functions than in the 850.

Information on the Casio website seems to indicate the 3500 will provide better quality photos in general and in low light conditions than the 850. Are you experts getting this same impression? Or, is it marketing hype? I’m aware that few folks have this camera in hand.

If I was going to buy the Casio 850 or Panny, my plan was to also get a gently used Sony RX100iii. Now that the Casio 3500 is on its way to me, I’m wondering if I need to get the Sony after all. Based on what is known at this time about the 3500, any idea what I’d be missing out on when shooting if I bought just the 3500 (and not the Sony as well)?

The Sony has a faster lens, but less zoom in a slightly smaller, but heavier, body.

Again, in the short term, my need is to generate approx. 11 x 14 size prints which would be framed. Do you think generally speaking someone would be able to tell if there was more noise, etc. in that size print with the Casio 3500 vs. the Sony RXiii?

Jose, I appreciate your Casio EX-10 suggestion! The larger screen size, etc. sounds helpful however, it only has an optical zoom of 4x and my goal is to have greater zoom than my current camera rather than less. Jose and Eric, I did see photos using the HDR ART setting on the Casio site. Indeed, it does look like something that’d work for me.

 

[Erik Ohlson]

IPost wrote, in part:





Is the Casio 3500 generally-speaking, a newer generation of the Casio 850?

Information on the Casio website seems to indicate the 3500 will provide better quality photos in general and in low light conditions than the 850. Are you experts getting this same impression? Or, is it marketing hype? I’m aware that few folks have this camera in hand.

I, now, have the camera in hand, but haven't had much time to really check it out - about the only thing I can really comment on is that at FULL EXTRA ZOOM, it's not as sharp as my ZR700:





This shot is strictly straight out-of-camera with no PP whatever.

I want to emphasize that this is digitally enhanced in-camera zoom, from a lens which has less of it's own Optical zoom.

If I was going to buy the Casio 850 or Panny, my plan was to also get a gently used Sony RX100iii. Now that the Casio 3500 is on its way to me, I’m wondering if I need to get the Sony after all. Based on what is known at this time about the 3500, any idea what I’d be missing out on when shooting if I bought just the 3500 (and not the Sony as well)? Again, in the short term, my need is to generate approx. 11 x 14 size prints which would be framed. Do you think generally speaking someone would be able to tell if there was more noise, etc. in that size print with the Casio 3500 vs. the Sony RXiii?

Although Cyrill apparently carries several cameras, at least on trips, I travel with the exact same "Kit" as I use every day: I agree with Thoreau (at least as to photography): "Simplify, simplify, simplify!". I take the same "Kit" on trips as I use at home - I certainly would not want inferior equipment simply because I'm home.

I carry a camera - in a protective plastic bag, in my trouser pocket, 100% of the time - I am never without it, and use it much as Cyrill has mentioned. So, I need a camera with as good IQ as possible daily, and on trips.

My camera is ALWAYS equipped with a Clearviewer - it is the best thing that can happen to a small camera - bar none, and particularly if yo have vision problems.

The only exception to that rule is that on many trips, I have also slipped a tiny Ultrapod tripod in my hip pocket - and I recently realized that I have NEVER actually used it :-D

A note on IQ: 99+% of images are never printed larger than 8x10 inches, and even those printed larger - or displayed on larger screens - are not observed from distances less than several feet - so "Pixil-peeping" IQ is simply wasted. In the case of the 11x14" prints you mention, the answer is: "Yes and no". NO - a regular human being will never notice "more noise,etc" and YES, someone who carries a 10x pocket magnifier - and uses it - will, indeed see IQ differences. So what?

Jose, I appreciate your Casio EX-10 suggestion! The larger screen size, etc. sounds helpful however, it only has an optical zoom of 4x and my goal is to have greater zoom than my current camera rather than less. Jose and Eric, I did see photos using the HDR ART setting on the Casio site. Indeed, it does look like something that’d work for me.

You mentioned Photo Shop. Yes, I strongly recommend Photoshop ELEMENTS - a "simplified" version which will do all you can ask for, at greatly reduced price. I recommend buying it on disk, for very good price by buying it "used" on eBay or the like. A "used" disk has all the data, just at reduced price - in most cases used disks are brand-new ones that came "Bundled" with scanners and are good for either Mac or Windows.

You do not need the "very latest" version.

Any photoshop application is going to have a steep learning curve; one of the best ways around it is to get Scott Kelby's "The Photoshop Elements (version #) for Digital Photographers" - rather than expect you to absorb the very nerdy photoshop mind-set, Kelby just gives you recipies for doing what it is you need to do. Get the book from your library first, just to be sure you like it. The same for ANY book.

In addition, I have written up a very basic "tutorial" that will help to get you started - free - if you wish.







--
"Measure wealth not by things you have but by things for which you would not take money"
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ [email protected]

 

[JABB66]

Thanks, Eric especially, and Jose, for the detailed responses! Extremely helpful! This is a great forum and resource! There are lots of us who have partial sight and love to take photos. Maybe there should be a forum for us. Sure, the photos will never be as great or creative as those taken by someone who has perfect vision. But it’s a wonderful way to express myself visually and the auto settings sure do help. Photo Shop sounds like it’s something I could do and it’d fix some of the operator error which is bound to occur, smile. I’ll also look into the Clearviewer and report on that. This would likely be good for baby boomers. Research has shown that as this group ages, they are sooner or later likely to have vision loss. This could help them keep shooting.

Onto to the camera selection, I’ve been reading reviews and more posts. It seems like the image quality of the Panny ZS40 isn’t quite as good as the Casio. Plus, I learned that in 2012, Panny stopped adding more places to their GPS. So, decided to go with a Casio. Was about ready to order a gently used Casio 850 from Amazon Warehouse dirt cheap when I read posts in the Casio forum announcing the new Casio EX-ZR3500 and, that Eric has ordered one. J A lot of unknowns about the 3500 quality-wise yet but other Casios seem to get good reviews on dpreview.

So, I took a leap of faith late last week and ordered the Casio 3500 from Amazon.

Hi, hoping your new camera arrives soon and safely and you enjoy it

As for the Casio 3500, there is less zoom than the Casio 850. But I like some of the new features the 3500 offers and, while I’m not an expert, it seems the 3500 has better specs.

Is the Casio 3500 generally-speaking, a newer generation of the Casio 850?

Has another sensor and lens, so won't say that, but the rest of features are the same with a few added. What could be said the true successor of the ZR850 would be the ZR2000, this time with similar sensor and lens but with the addition of a tilt screen.

Information on the Casio website seems to indicate the 3500 will provide better quality photos in general and in low light conditions than the 850. Are you experts getting this same impression? Or, is it marketing hype? I’m aware that few folks have this camera in hand.

It should have better quality image dur to its bigger sensor, even if the lens it's similar to respect to aperture.

If I was going to buy the Casio 850 or Panny, my plan was to also get a gently used Sony RX100iii. Now that the Casio 3500 is on its way to me, I’m wondering if I need to get the Sony after all. Based on what is known at this time about the 3500, any idea what I’d be missing out on when shooting if I bought just the 3500 (and not the Sony as well)? Again, in the short term, my need is to generate approx. 11 x 14 size prints which would be framed. Do you think generally speaking someone would be able to tell if there was more noise, etc. in that size print with the Casio 3500 vs. the Sony RXiii?

Probably someone with photographic skills could tell that the Sony IQ , noise, etc is better. The "general" public could too, but is less probable. But in low light the difference should be more obvious, thanks to the bigger sensor and brighter lens of the Sony.

Jose, I appreciate your Casio EX-10 suggestion! The larger screen size, etc. sounds helpful however, it only has an optical zoom of 4x and my goal is to have greater zoom than my current camera rather than less. Jose and Eric, I did see photos using the HDR ART setting on the Casio site. Indeed, it does look like something that’d work for me.

In fact, my suggestion was addressed as an alternative to the Sony as an additional camera... For the longer zoom camera I could have tell you about the Casio EX-100, similar to the EX-10 but with a 38-300 lens and F2.8 constant aperture, for $385 in an US Amazon seller, but as we were talking first about the ZR850 versus the Panny model, I din't thought about it.

--
José Antonio

 

[Cyril Catt]

JABB66 wrote:[...] For the longer zoom camera I could have tell you about the Casio EX-100, similar to the EX-10 but with a 38-300 lens and F2.8 constant aperture, for $385 in an US Amazon seller, [...] --José Antonio

Thanks for all those details, José Antonio. Casio certainly has a wide range of models, and a constant aperture zoom has a lot of advantages. But I believe the EX-100 has a 28-300 mm lens.

It is also a bit bigger (at 389g, 119.9 x 67.9 x 50.5 mm, vs the ZR3500 at 248g, 108.3 x 61.5 x 36.7; ZR700 & ZR800 at 222g, 108 x 60 x 31 mm; and ZS40 at 240g, 111 x 64 x 34mm.) which may deter those looking for a pocketable model.

--

Cyril

 

[Cyril Catt]

JABB66 wrote: [...]. For the longer zoom camera I could have tell you about the Casio EX-100, similar to the EX-10 but with a 38-300 lens and F2.8 constant aperture, for $385 in an US Amazon seller, [...] -- José Antonio

Thanks for that information José Antonio. A constant aperture zoom has a lot of advantages, but I believe there's a minor typo - the EX-100 has a 28-300 mm equivalent lens, not a 38-300 mm. It is also a bit larger and heavier than the ZS40, ZR700/800/850/3500, which may deter those who are looking for a more pocketable model

 

[Erik Ohlson]

JABB66 wrote: [...]. For the longer zoom camera I could have tell you about the Casio EX-100, similar to the EX-10 but with a 38-300 lens and F2.8 constant aperture, for $385 in an US Amazon seller, [...] -- José Antonio

Thanks for that information José Antonio. A constant aperture zoom has a lot of advantages, but I believe there's a minor typo - the EX-100 has a 28-300 mm equivalent lens, not a 38-300 mm. It is also a bit larger and heavier than the ZS40, ZR700/800/850/3500, which may deter those who are looking for a more pocketable model

--
Cyril

It doesn't FEEL particularly larger but until I get a chance to check it out and to drill another hole in my Clearviewer base plate (the tripod socket has been moved - right of center just next to the battery door hinge), I haven't been carrying it around. The flip screen does make it thicker, and I'm not sure whether it's worth it but as has been said - for ground-level flowers &tc.....

In case I would want to sell it, I want to keep it in "As New" condition.

I've been very busy since I got it - things just keep popping up to prevent camera time.

I'm sorry I haven't been able to report on it yet.







--
"Measure wealth not by things you have but by things for which you would not take money"
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ [email protected]

 

[Cyril Catt]

JABB66 wrote: [...]. For the longer zoom camera I could have tell you about the Casio EX-100, similar to the EX-10 but with a 38-300 lens and F2.8 constant aperture, for $385 in an US Amazon seller, [...] -- José Antonio

Thanks for that information José Antonio. A constant aperture zoom has a lot of advantages, but I believe there's a minor typo - the EX-100 has a 28-300 mm equivalent lens, not a 38-300 mm. It is also a bit larger and heavier than the ZS40, ZR700/800/850/3500, which may deter those who are looking for a more pocketable model

--
Cyril

It doesn't FEEL particularly larger but until I get a chance to check it out and to drill another hole in my Clearviewer base plate (the tripod socket has been moved - right of center just next to the battery door hinge), I haven't been carrying it around. The flip screen does make it thicker, and I'm not sure whether it's worth it but as has been said - for ground-level flowers &tc.....

In case I would want to sell it, I want to keep it in "As New" condition.

I've been very busy since I got it - things just keep popping up to prevent camera time.

I'm sorry I haven't been able to report on it yet.



--
"Measure wealth not by things you have but by things for which you would not take money"
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ [email protected]

Thanks, Erik, for posting your first impressions. From the measurements given, the ZR3500 certainly doesn't appear much larger than the ZR700, and nowhere near as large as the EX100.

ZR800 & 700 222g, 107.4 W, 60.0 H, 30.7 D, (25.5 excluding projections, at thinnest part)

ZR850 225g, 107.4 W, 60.0 H, 30.7 D, (25.5 excluding projections, at thinnest part)

ZR3500 248g, 108.3 W, 61.5 H, 36.7 D, (28.0 excluding projections, at thinnest part)

EX100 389g, 119.9 W, 67.9 H, 50.5 D, (32.6 excluding projections, at thinnest part)

I'm still trying to find a reliable vendor who will deal with Australia and offers more than just the Casio "Life Style" models - which seemed prominent in the Casio displays in Japan, Shanghai, Hong Kong and Singapore that we visited in March - and were apparently selling fast, despite prices three to four times more than for the ZR models. Go figure.

--
Cyril

 

[JABB66]

JABB66 wrote: [...]. For the longer zoom camera I could have tell you about the Casio EX-100, similar to the EX-10 but with a 38-300 lens and F2.8 constant aperture, for $385 in an US Amazon seller, [...] -- José Antonio

Thanks for that information José Antonio. A constant aperture zoom has a lot of advantages, but I believe there's a minor typo - the EX-100 has a 28-300 mm equivalent lens, not a 38-300 mm. It is also a bit larger and heavier than the ZS40, ZR700/800/850/3500, which may deter those who are looking for a more pocketable model

--
Cyril

Hi Cyrill

You're right of course, I hadn't noticed the mistake, 28 mm is bad enough

And yes, it's larger but no other premium compact in the world comes close to its features at that size... only the Olympus Stilus 1 and 1s, but at a pretty bigger size.

--
José Antonio

 

[Cyril Catt]

JABB66 wrote: [...]. For the longer zoom camera I could have tell you about the Casio EX-100, similar to the EX-10 but with a 38-300 lens and F2.8 constant aperture, for $385 in an US Amazon seller, [...] -- José Antonio

Thanks for that information José Antonio. A constant aperture zoom has a lot of advantages, but I believe there's a minor typo - the EX-100 has a 28-300 mm equivalent lens, not a 38-300 mm. It is also a bit larger and heavier than the ZS40, ZR700/800/850/3500, which may deter those who are looking for a more pocketable model -- Cyril

Hi Cyrill You're right of course, I hadn't noticed the mistake, 28 mm is bad enough

And yes, it's larger but no other premium compact in the world comes close to its features at that size... only the Olympus Stilus 1 and 1s, but at a pretty bigger size. -- José Antonio

The ZR3500 also has several similarities to the EX100, though they differ in lens, shutter, and some mode settings. It all depends what your particular needs are.

DPReview's specification details are not as comprehensive as Casio's, but you can compare details on Casio's site at:

http://www.casio-intl.com/asia-mea/en/dc/compare/spec/result/

(Note that as Casio's specifications for different models have been added at different times, some tabulations do not give details in exactly the same order. It may help to copy and paste side-by-side comparisons onto a separate application which will allow you to change the column widths and swap lines about to get side-by-side comparisons)

--
Cyril

 

[Texas hobbyist]

Great information, not sure how I missed this so I'm really glad you resent it. Really sharp photos. I've located a ZR850 in Canada that's new so that may be my new camera.