Summer holiday with NX1000 instead of 5DII; my thoughts

[de_klaas]

So I finally did it. I left my Canon 5DII at home for the summer holiday. I absolutely love that camera but yes, it is big and heavy. With a slingstrap I don’t mind carrying it for a whole day but still… I visited Paris in may with just the NX100 to see if that would suffice for the summer holiday as well but found it’s DR a bit limiting so I bought a NX1000 hoping that it would have increased DR and better high iso. The camera seemed to deliver on those fronts so I finally decided I could leave the Canon at home.

So how did things work out? Well, to be honest I have mixed feelings about the whole experience. I’ll try to explain those feeling below, hoping that someone will find this useful. (warning: this is probably going to be quite long…)

First off, this is what I brought along:

- NX1000

- 12-24mm

- 30mm

- 50-200mm

As I mentioned above, one of the main reasons for buying the NX1000 was the increased DR and the NX1000 absolutely offers that. However with smartrange off the DR is still noticeably worse than my 5DII so I decided to turn it on and leave it on. Looking at the pictures now I realize that that was my first mistake. With my 5DII it doesn’t really matter if I use ISO100, 200 or 400. There’s no real noise at any of those settings and from what I’d read I thought the NX1000 sensor would be very good at those settings as well. That may be the case as far as APS-C sensor are concerned but it sure isn’t on FF levels. So a lot of the pictures are noisier than I had hoped. The 5DII has a pretty bad reputation when it comes to lifting shadows, but the NX1000 isn’t that good either. Luckily there’s no banding but if you start lifting shadows at iso200 or 400 things get noisy pretty quickly.

Another thing that really bugged me is the screen. It’s pretty much useless in broad daylight. I knew this so I had ordered a anti-glare screen protector but unfortunately it didn’t arrive in time. Without it even basic composition is hard to judge on the screen. Exposure is nearly impossible to judge. The viewing angles of the screen aren’t very helpful either. When taking picture of the kids I used to kneel to take shots from their eyelevel. With the NX1000 I tended to just lower the camera. The limiting viewing angle however makes the screen looks much more washed out than it really is, so I dialled in some exposure compensation in situations where I shouldn’t have. (leading to exposure lifting in post etc etc.) Maybe the amoled screens on the other models have better viewing angles but I’m sure my next camera will have some sort of VF.

With regard to handling and spreed it’s well known that the NX cameras are no speed demons. The writing speed has been much discussed but I thought I could live with it. On the whole I managed, but at times the ‘processing’ message was really annoying. The AF speed doesn’t seem to be much improved over previous models but I got by most of the time. Both problems seem to be solved with the NX300 so it seems that Samsung is at least aware of some of the limitations of their cameras.

I brought the 12-24mm for landscapes and as my main walkaround lens. I really like the 24/35mm focal length so I thought I’d mainly use the lens at 24mm and use wider when I needed to. The lens itself seems to perform pretty well. I’d have to do some more controlled tests to see how it holds up against the 5DII + 17-40, but in general it’s a very useful (and small) wide angle lens. Using the lens at 24mm as a walkaround 35mm equivalent lens wasn’t the best idea however. At 24mm the maximum aperture is f/5.6 and that doesn’t allow for much background blur. And 24mm + f/5.6 isn’t the best setting for sharpness either. Next time I think I’ll be using the 20-50mm or 20mm as a walkaround lens and use the 12-24 only for the real wide angle shots.

The 30mm was a joy to use, as it is always. I wish Samsung offered a 35mm equivalent lens with the same fast aperture and great sharpness. That, combined with a rangefinder style, EVF equipped body, would be ideal for most of my shots…

I brought the 50-200mm for casual shots of the (playing) kids and some landscapes. I think it’s well known that the 50-200mm is much better up to 150mm than at 200mm. I did some test on a tripod that confirmed that but the difference didn’t really seem that big so I used the 200mm quite frequently. In real life the difference is much bigger however. Almost none of my shots at 200mm are usable. I’m pretty sure this is a combination of factors however: the lens is not at it’s sharpest at 200mm, the OSS is not the best in the world and the AF doesn’t really keep up with playing kids. Next time I’ll try to avoid shooting over 150mm.

This may seem like a critical assessment but like I said I have mixed feelings about the whole experience. When I got home I picked up the 5DII again for an family event where I expected low light levels. I caught myself looking dumbly at the blank screen after turning it on, but after realizing I had to use the OVF the Canon performed perfectly. ;-) However, all of a sudden I was ‘the man with the camera’ again. That feeling really made me realize how freeing the experience of shooting with a small camera had been. You can’t put that into simple numbers but I sure feel more like a family man with just the small NX1000

So will I leave the Canon at home for my next holiday as well? I’m not sure. On the one hand I know that I’ll be getting better results when I pay more attention to my shooting and lens choice and the smaller camera is a real plus. On the other hands the limitations are still there and esp. the lack of a viewfinder is really annoying. Maybe a NX30 would tip the scales in favour of the smaller camera or maybe I’ll choose to bring both: the NX1000 for casual outings and the 5DII for more serious shooting.

I’m still processing the pictures I’ve shot. When I’m done I’ll probably show some of them because despite my complains I think I did really get some nice shots with this little camera.

 

[tecnoworld]

I'd like to see comparisons where a ff camera is really better than this gen aps-c, in iso lower than 1600/3200. I can't notice differences, but that' probably my limit. So since you wrote that you see noticeable differences, would you like to post some comparison shots? Thx.

 

[de_klaas]

Like I said, I was surprised too. But that's simply what I see in real life use. Maybe the smart range deteriorates the iq more than just the need to shoot at iso200. I'll try to do some tests when I have some spare time. I'm interested in the results myself too because I want a better understanding of what this camera is capable of.

 

[tecnoworld]

Thx. I seldom used smart range on my nx bodies, so I cannot comment on those. What I can say is that at a birthday party I was shooting with my nx300+45mm, while a friend used his mighty 6d with kit lens. My pics were averagelly better both for sharpness and exposure. Of course the 45mm is way faster than any kit lens, defeating the 1 stop advantage, but still I was surprised.

 

[monkeybrain]

It's good that you were open minded enough to try the NX1000 over the 5DII. And it's pretty amazing that we're now at a point where something as cheap as the NX1000 can even begin to compare with something like the 5DMII.

Couple of points:

I think you are right that smartrange is a mistake. Doesn't using it preclude the use of raw? I'd stick with smartrange off and shoot raw. I feel you'll get the most (especially dynamic range) from the sensor shooting raw.

For exposure, remember that you can turn on the live histogram and adjust exposure according to the histogram (as opposed to a DSLR where you have to look at the histogram after taking the shot). I basically ignore the image on the screen for exposure and concentrate on the histogram, it's made the biggest difference in stopping me getting blown out skies etc.

 

[yooperguy]

Re: hard to see screen;

I continue to recommend a Clearviewer as an add-on. I use the tripod mount version, but others prefer the hot shoe version. I recommend wearing a hat with a brim to block overhead or side lighting. It works well, and I no longer have difficulty seeing the LCD in bright sunshine on the NX100. I also use one on my Canon G9, even though it came with an optical tunnel viewfinder.

Dennis

 

[TJL LTFF]

monkeybrain wrote:.

For exposure, remember that you can turn on the live histogram and adjust exposure according to the histogram. I basically ignore the image on the screen for exposure and concentrate on the histogram, it's made the biggest difference in stopping me getting blown out skies etc.

Pretty close to what I do for most shots. I also feel that there is almost always room to the right of histogram while shooting raw in the NX cameras I've owned; so often I am aggressive in this direction.

So far in the various cameras I've shot with (not just NX), the more I use and pay attention to the histogram the better the feel for how much room is to the right and left for a given scene. Each one gives different but reasonably consistent info. And it's that consistency that makes it very useful for me. In the NX10 interestingly Spot metering worked best with the histogram; the NX300 definitely Multi metering. After the shot the +/- EC that the camera reads out can seem rather interesting too.

 

[de_klaas]

monkeybrain wrote:

It's good that you were open minded enough to try the NX1000 over the 5DII. And it's pretty amazing that we're now at a point where something as cheap as the NX1000 can even begin to compare with something like the 5DMII.

I'm not sure if I'd say that the NX1000 can (begin to) compare with the 5DII but at least it's 'good enough' for my holiday purposes. And that in itself is a real achievement considering the fact that I bought the NX for about 1/10 of the price of the Canon... But then, I long ago realized that for my holiday purposes even my D70s was good enough ;-)

I think you are right that smartrange is a mistake. Doesn't using it preclude the use of raw? I'd stick with smartrange off and shoot raw. I feel you'll get the most (especially dynamic range) from the sensor shooting raw.

Smartrange and RAW were incompatible on my E-X1 and if I remember correctly also on the NX11. On the NX1000 you can use bot smartrange and RAW (wich is what I did). There is indeed some headroom in RAW but it’s much more limited than my 5DII hence my decision to turn it on. The Canon has a similar function that doesn’t seem to affect IQ at all… I’ll try to find out what exactly the smartrange feature does to the RAW file.

For exposure, remember that you can turn on the live histogram and adjust exposure according to the histogram

I had the histogram turned on but besides the fact that it's not very visible in bright light I hadn’t used the camera enough to now how far I could push the histogram to the right. This, combined with the washed out screen probably made me more cautious than needed.

(as opposed to a DSLR where you have to look at the histogram after taking the shot).

To be accurate: the 5DII offers a live histogram in liveview. I use it all the time when I have the camera on a tripod. In general use however I've used the camera so much that I know what to expect and there's no screen to make me doubt my intuition ;-)

 

[de_klaas]

yooperguy wrote:

Re: hard to see screen;

I continue to recommend a Clearviewer as an add-on. I use the tripod mount version, but others prefer the hot shoe version. I recommend wearing a hat with a brim to block overhead or side lighting. It works well, and I no longer have difficulty seeing the LCD in bright sunshine on the NX100. I also use one on my Canon G9, even though it came with an optical tunnel viewfinder.

Dennis

Maybe I should try one of those but it still seems a bit akward to me. It's a solution that's forced upon us because Samsung doesn't offer a EVF option. Personally I think that's a mistake. More or less serious cameras like the NX line should offer at least the option to attach a EVF for those cameras that don't have one built in.

 

[yooperguy]

de_klaas wrote:

yooperguy wrote:

Re: hard to see screen;

I continue to recommend a Clearviewer as an add-on. I use the tripod mount version, but others prefer the hot shoe version. I recommend wearing a hat with a brim to block overhead or side lighting. It works well, and I no longer have difficulty seeing the LCD in bright sunshine on the NX100. I also use one on my Canon G9, even though it came with an optical tunnel viewfinder.

Dennis

Maybe I should try one of those but it still seems a bit akward to me. It's a solution that's forced upon us because Samsung doesn't offer a EVF option. Personally I think that's a mistake. More or less serious cameras like the NX line should offer at least the option to attach a EVF for those cameras that don't have one built in.

I bought the optional EVF10 for the NX100 sometime after I got the Clearviewer. I got a great deal from a Korean source ($60). I considered upgrading to the NX1000, but it would not accept the EVF, so I instead went for the NX20 body recently. I love the NX20 EVF, so I'm glad I switched. I still like my "old" G9, but the optical viewfinder is not that great, and shows no information. Adding the Clearviewer to the G9 has made it my favorite "small" camera.

Side note: I received my new Fotga 10mm + 16mm extension tubes for my NX lenses the other day. Wow, do I like them. They work great with the 18-55mm III and 50-200mm II lenses. I want to avoid buying the 60mm macro for mega bucks. I'm happy with the results for now, so I won't be buying any new lenses soon, and that makes my wife happy too. ;-)

Dennis

 

[jennyrae]

thank you for sharing. do not have nx1000 but had nx200 before. I think same 2011 sensor but nx1000 they say is slightly better with noise. I have 6D but do not have 5D 2 of same . I think you are correct with assessment with noise be much cleaner with fullframe because of physics, also of idea that 5D 2 have aggressive reduction of noise I think. question, how clean can you get and how clean you need? with aps-c sensor, I see noise differently. luminance and chroma. I see luminance very good when coming with detail as long as not disturbing and very tiny. chroma is different story. nx300 from I see is very good to process out chroma and give very high degree of detail. also very good in lifting shadows not like nx200. jpeg is now very good and useful. I now shoot jpeg when need instant result with great picture quality. high iso picture quality is biggest revelation in nx300. cannot believe I get still acceptably good and very good result at 12800. also now can take picture in bad light or poor light that I cannot do with older nx.

my opinion is aps-c is different picture quality type. when noise is topic, I think it is 1 generation below full-frame each time with year by year sensor updates for both sensors. grainy feel with aps-c and very tidy picture with full-frame. of course, picture manipulation now make aps-c pictures appear taken from full-frame.

maybe you can try nx300. see if you like better. is store allow return after trial?

 

[de_klaas]

yooperguy wrote:

I considered upgrading to the NX1000, but it would not accept the EVF, so I instead went for the NX20 body recently. I love the NX20 EVF, so I'm glad I switched.

If I can get a better feel of the IQ the Samsung sensor is capable of the NX20 might be interesting. I hope it's price drops a bit more though ;-)

Side note: I received my new Fotga 10mm + 16mm extension tubes for my NX lenses the other day. Wow, do I like them. They work great with the 18-55mm III and 50-200mm II lenses. I want to avoid buying the 60mm macro for mega bucks. I'm happy with the results for now, so I won't be buying any new lenses soon, and that makes my wife happy too. ;-)

Just wait until you've tried a real macro lens ;-)

 

[de_klaas]

jennyrae wrote:

maybe you can try nx300. see if you like better. is store allow return after trial?

Thanks for your input. I agree that there's nothing that beats the smoothness of a FF file. At least as far as I've seen. The NX300 is probably better than the NX1000 but the difference at low iso's shouldn't be that big, should it? Besides my biggest problem with the NX1000 is the lack of a VF. The NX300 unfortunately doesn't solve that...

 

[tecnoworld]

according to dxo the 5d mark ii has an edge just for high iso...dr seems even lower than nx300, at base iso, and comparable up to iso400.

 

[de_klaas]

tecnoworld wrote:

according to dxo the 5d mark ii has an edge just for high iso...dr seems even lower than nx300, at base iso, and comparable up to iso400.

According to DXO the E-X1 has more DR than a NX11. I can tell you from my own experience that that is complete nonsense. I've learned to take the DXO numbers with more than just a grain of salt...

Edit: If you look at the DXO number you’ll see that the NX200 should have 12.6Evs of DR. The 5DII has 11.9Evs of DR according to DXO. However, if you compare those camera’s on this site the picture’s quite different: with Smart Range off on the NX200 and HTTP off on the 5DII the 5DII has just over 1 stop more DR. With Smart Range on the NX200 matches the 5DII in the highlights but looses some in the shadows. (This graph was the main reason for me to leave Smart Range on). Now this may be the results for jpegs, but it’s pretty close to what I’m seeing in real life wit RAW as well.

 

[NewForce]

Yes, congrats you did it. You're now officially more flexible than before.