Using a Nikon D600 to scan 35mm bw negative film

[mdiphoto]

I am using my Nikon D600 also to "scan" pictures from 35mm black and white film. For that I use a Kaiser film duplikator and an old Nikkor 35-80mm lens.




Last weekend I captured my first self developed black and white film (Kodak TMAX 400).

What do you think about the quality (the edges are quite soft):

 

[Wayne Larmon]

mdiphoto wrote:

I am using my Nikon D600 also to "scan" pictures from 35mm black and white film. For that I use a Kaiser film duplikator and an old Nikkor 35-80mm lens.

This one?

Kaiser Digital Slide Duplicator (with the Kaiser film strip carrier )

I investigated it but discovered that the tube is non-adjustable such that it only works on zoom lenses. IMO, this is very sub-optimal, because zoom lenses aren't suited at all for copying flat objects. You need a lens with a flat focus plane. Which means a macro lens. Or maybe a lens from an enlarger.

Last weekend I captured my first self developed black and white film (Kodak TMAX 400).

What do you think about the quality (the edges are quite soft):

Cool. They look good at web resolution but soft corners don't show up at web resolution.

I like the idea of camera scanning a lot. Camera scanning can be as good as drum scanning. But implementing camera scanning is tricky because there aren't many off-the-shelf solutions. I'm using a Canon 60D (not as good as your D600), a Canon 60mm macro lens, and a PhotoSolve Extend-a-Slide. The Extend-a-Slide carrier for slides works well, but the Extend-a-Slide film carrier isn't as good as the Kaiser film carrier (IMO). I use a modified version of the Extend-a-slide film carrier.

Unfortunately, the Kaiser duplicator has a fatal flaw (IMO) in that the tube isn't adjustable, which limits it to working with zoom lenses (I wrote Kaiser to confirm this.) In addition to the non-flat focus field issue, it is a bad idea to hang something heavy onto the end of a lens that isn't internal focus, because all the weight of the film carrier is bearing on the lens's internal mechanism. My Canon 60mm macro lens is internal focus--the exterior is a solid tube, so this isn't an issue.

I wish it was possible to use the Kaiser slide and negative carriers with the PhotoSolve adjustable tube, but apparently this isn't possible (according to Kaiser.) Camera scanning has a lot of potential (for those of us that don't have drum scanners), but thus far, requires a certain amount of custom fabrication.


Wayne

 

[Art Jacks]

My slide and neg copying set up, my mid 90's micro Nikkor lens with some bits and pieces I had in the cupboard, the tube the opal screen is attached to is a push pull arrangement so it does allow a degree of cropping or straightening.

 

[blåland]

I use a 40D, 100mm macro and a homemade holder. Even this old camera makes good scans.

A D600 with a dedicated macro lens should be awesome. Probably better than most scanners.

 

[Mitrajoon]

I hope this thread gets lots of responses.

I use this device http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:22985

with my D800e and a Nikon 105 macro lens to "scan" 120 negs. Frankly my results haven't been as good as yours but I hope will get better as I spend more time getting the lighting right. You've motivated me to get back to the task and try to figure this out.
--
Jim

JMLPhotography

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[mdiphoto]

Thanks for the response. Yes, I am using the Kaiser duplicator and a flash gun in front fired remotely. The only flaw is indeed the soft corners. The dyi solutions are also very interesting...

 

[mdiphoto]

This would mean using such a lens for example:

http://www.sigma-foto.de/index.php?id=1354&L=2

I could bring a 35 mm negative / positive 1:1 onto the full size sensor of the D600 with a correct sharpness to the corners?




Of course I would have to modify my Kaiser duplicator or only use the part with the film holder...

 

[Wayne Larmon]

mdiphoto wrote:

This would mean using such a lens for example:

http://www.sigma-foto.de/index.php?id=1354&L=2

Yes. Macro lenses

1. generally are designed to have a flat field of focus. If your lens has a curved field of focus, then it it totally impossible to focus on all portions of a flat object.
2. Allow for 1:1 magnification without needing to use any additional "close up" lenses. (I'm not sure how the Kaiser duplicator handles this. I didn't pursue this when I was corresponding with Kaiser technical support.)

But note my caution about internal focus, from my previous post. I don't know if the lens you linked to is constructed like this. One problem is that macro lenses are generally marketed for people taking pictures of bugs and flowers and not for people doing camera scanning, so they often don't mention internal focus. I'll get back to this when I discuss Peter Krogh, below.

I could bring a 35 mm negative / positive 1:1 onto the full size sensor of the D600 with a correct sharpness to the corners?

Yes.

Of course I would have to modify my Kaiser duplicator or only use the part with the film holder...

This is the tricky part. Look at how my Extend-a-Slide is constructed

Photosolve Extend-a-slide

I can adjust the length of the tube by adding or subtracting sections. And by sliding the inner and outer sections. This is how I adjust the framing. When the image fills the frame, I tighten the nylon locking screw.

Photographer Peter Krogh created a page several years that covers different methods of camera scanning The problem is that most of the things he recommends to use haven't been sold for years (or decades?) Meaning various bellows/rail systems. He had bad things to say about carriers that mount directly on the lens (like your Kaiser and my PhotoSolve system do) because, apparently the Nikon lens that he used for testing wasn't internal focus. The weight of the carrier damaged the lens. (This was covered in the video, not in the text.)

As I said in my previous post, my Canon 60mm macro lens is completely internal focus, so the weight of the carrier isn't born by the internal lens mechanism. Note that camera manufacturers use the term "internal focus" rather loosely. The way I mean it is that the exterior of the lens is a solid tube. Nothing on the front of the lens moves at all, in any direction, when I focus the lens. Manufacturers sometimes use "internal focus" to mean that the front of the lens doesn't rotate when you focus (which makes using circular polarizers easier to use). But the front of the lens extends/contracts when you focus. This is not really "internal focus" (because moving the front lens element can damage the internal mechanism.)


Wayne

 

[mdiphoto]

Its me again ;-)




Thank you for the clue with the zoom lens. I thoght it is the fault of the Kaisers's macro lens that the corners are soft. Today I tried it again with my Nikon AF-S 50 1.8D prime lens and get an effective resolution of 3000 x 2000 pixels ( I used the D600 in DX mode) - so 6 megapixels and the scans are impressive sharp on the complete image. So the macro lens of the Kaiser duplicator is ok.

For this lens a 24 megapixel DX camera would be helpfull - at least I don't see that much detail loss...




Here the scans with the prime lens as comparison:

 

[mdiphoto]

I solved the weight problem with the kaiser putting all the units (camera and duplicator) on a table. This works best for me and doesn't stree the lens. I also only focus manual.

 

[RobertSigmund]

Wayne Larmon wrote:

mdiphoto wrote:

I am using my Nikon D600 also to "scan" pictures from 35mm black and white film. For that I use a Kaiser film duplikator and an old Nikkor 35-80mm lens.

This one?

Kaiser Digital Slide Duplicator (with the Kaiser film strip carrier )

I investigated it but discovered that the tube is non-adjustable such that it only works on zoom lenses. IMO, this is very sub-optimal, because zoom lenses aren't suited at all for copying flat objects. You need a lens with a flat focus plane. Which means a macro lens. Or maybe a lens from an enlarger.

Last weekend I captured my first self developed black and white film (Kodak TMAX 400).

What do you think about the quality (the edges are quite soft):

Cool. They look good at web resolution but soft corners don't show up at web resolution.

I like the idea of camera scanning a lot. Camera scanning can be as good as drum scanning. But implementing camera scanning is tricky because there aren't many off-the-shelf solutions. I'm using a Canon 60D (not as good as your D600), a Canon 60mm macro lens, and a PhotoSolve Extend-a-Slide. The Extend-a-Slide carrier for slides works well, but the Extend-a-Slide film carrier isn't as good as the Kaiser film carrier (IMO). I use a modified version of the Extend-a-slide film carrier.

Unfortunately, the Kaiser duplicator has a fatal flaw (IMO) in that the tube isn't adjustable, which limits it to working with zoom lenses (I wrote Kaiser to confirm this.) In addition to the non-flat focus field issue, it is a bad idea to hang something heavy onto the end of a lens that isn't internal focus, because all the weight of the film carrier is bearing on the lens's internal mechanism. My Canon 60mm macro lens is internal focus--the exterior is a solid tube, so this isn't an issue.

I wish it was possible to use the Kaiser slide and negative carriers with the PhotoSolve adjustable tube, but apparently this isn't possible (according to Kaiser.) Camera scanning has a lot of potential (for those of us that don't have drum scanners), but thus far, requires a certain amount of custom fabrication.

Wayne

Wow. Thank you for this link. It is stunning!

can be as good as drum scanning

 

[Wayne Larmon]

mdiphoto wrote:

Its me again ;-)

Thank you for the clue with the zoom lens. I thoght it is the fault of the Kaisers's macro lens that the corners are soft. Today I tried it again with my Nikon AF-S 50 1.8D prime lens and get an effective resolution of 3000 x 2000 pixels ( I used the D600 in DX mode) - so 6 megapixels and the scans are impressive sharp on the complete image. So the macro lens of the Kaiser duplicator is ok.

For this lens a 24 megapixel DX camera would be helpfull - at least I don't see that much detail loss...

Yeah, but your D600 is a 24 megapixel FX camera, is it not? Wouldn't it be better to use a 1:1 macro lens so you can use all those FX pixels? I'm not familiar with Nikon lenses. Is the AF-S 50 1.8D lens a 1:1 macro lens?

If the problem is that the Kaiser duplicator isn't adjustable, you could try an Extend-a-Slide, like I use. The owner of PhotoSolve is very accommodating--he worked with me to make several custom carriers for my needs. (However, it looks like they are shut down until March 2.)

Here the scans with the prime lens as comparison:

(snip)

Yep, they look crisp. Now all you need to do is get a 1:1 macro lens fitted. (Or ~6:1, if you want to go for drum scanning quality. Also see part 2. The trick for drum scan quality is to magnify beyond 1:1 so you shoot each frame in sections, and then stitch the parts together into an image that has more resolution than you can capture with a single frame. For 35mm, he uses six sections. (I haven't done this myself--I'm happy with single approx. 18 megapixel images.) But your film images look to be higher quality than my family snapshots are, so your images might justify higher resolution.)


But if you don't have a 1:1 macro lens, it would probably be prudent to rent one first and do a feasibility test by cobbling together a temporary film holder to see if the increased resolution is worth it, compared to what you can do right now with your DX configuration.

Wayne

 

[Winger67]

FYI, I bought what looks to be a rebranded Kaiser under the Poloriod name on Amazon. Was a lot less. Still had to buy the Kaiser film strip holder. Just starting out with a 35mm prime with a D90 but obviously it's cropped quite a bit.

Need recommendations on a light source for shooting negatives and post processing in Lightroom. Halogen was very blue. Sunlight seemed pretty good. Is there a light box or lamp that will give me good results or should I set up a remote flash?

Would it be worth removing the supplied lense and going with a dedicated macro lens? Would give me an excuse to get one. Would the 40mm work?