XF 100-400 soft image at long distance or user error?

sunkengoose

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I got a XF 100-400 mm used a while back and used it successfully to take pictures of birds at "medium" distances like on trees when I'm on a trail. The pictures are sharp for the most part.

Today, I had the opportunity to photograph a snow owl at long distances with my X-T50. Maybe 100-200m away or more. The 400mm is not enough and some very soft images were produced. I'm not sure if this is my fault somehow? For reference, this is what I did:
  1. Handheld as I forgot my tripod
  2. 1/2000s produced the best shot (used 1/500s earlier), but I didn't think it was needed because the owl was not moving for the most part. Even the vegetation around looks soft. I used F5.6 and tried F8. F8 was sharper but not by much. The weird softness is still there, but it had a wider DoF.
  3. Used manual focus because AF didn't work that well, and the owl is not moving.
  4. Temperature was cold, but the air was still
Here's the best result. There are photos that are worse. I feel like this is significantly worse than what I did before, but this is a new distance record for me for birds for sure.

 X-T50 best result.
X-T50 best result.

Here's a worse one:

X-T50 not so good results
X-T50 not so good results

I also had a Sony HX99 with me. I used it to take some photos at its 720mm equivalent and used a 2x digital zoom. It almost feels sharper with more noise. Here's the result

 HX99 with 2x zoom
HX99 with 2x zoom

One interesting note is that the bird later flew away to a post even further, and I feel like I got better result than the earlier photos shown? What am I doing wrong here? Is my lens bad?

X-T50 owl on post that's even further.
X-T50 owl on post that's even further.
 
Run some tests with it on a tripod, use focus peaking and manual focus to hone in on something at that distance then use a 2 second timer or better still a remote shutter to fire off a shot.



if the image is sharp there is nothing wrong with the lens, at which point you can explore other factors that might have caused it.
 
Upon inspecting the images up close it looks like it's not the lens' fault, but the atmospheric conditions.
 
Genuine question from me:

Is atmospheric conditions likely at obviously low temperatures? Ground and air likely similar temperatures. I'm wondering about the physics of this.
 
I guess the only argument against that would be it seems to have not impacted the Sony image.
 
I can't really help with the details on physics but I noticed it's sunny in OP's shots so air and/or the ground might've warmed up just enough to ruin critical sharpness. I can sometimes notice this even at 230mm with my 50-230mm lens.
 
I've used the 100-400 for about 10 years now; my suggestion is find a sign at the same distance and test sharpness. In my opinion, the Sony image is no sharper. I'd stick with auto focus. I've shot long for decades, it does require some experience (especially if handheld) to become proficient. Also the 100-400 is known to be a little soft at 400; my copy is ok but some users have mentioned it.
 
I guess the only argument against that would be it seems to have not impacted the Sony image.
I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion. The Sony shot is grainy as it suffers from so much baked noise reduction that you can't really judge detail.
 
I guess the only argument against that would be it seems to have not impacted the Sony image.
I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion. The Sony shot is grainy as it suffers from so much baked noise reduction that you can't really judge detail.
Sorry Yoan, i should say, ive only looked at normal viewing distance on my screen, i was merely taking the word of the OP that it was better, perhaps a mistake on my part.

I guess lesson learnt is not to assume the photo is better because someone said it is :)
 
I guess the only argument against that would be it seems to have not impacted the Sony image.
I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion. The Sony shot is grainy as it suffers from so much baked noise reduction that you can't really judge detail.
Sorry Yoan, i should say, ive only looked at normal viewing distance on my screen, i was merely taking the word of the OP that it was better, perhaps a mistake on my part.

I guess lesson learnt is not to assume the photo is better because someone said it is :)
Ok, i just zoomed in, yeah the Sony image looks a complete mess in this instance, almost looks like the infamous 'Fuji worms'.
 
It hasn't warmed up enough to melt the snow! I've only seen atmospherics on warm and sunny days which is why I asked. I'd observe this is beyond critical sharpness being lost in the samples.
 
Do you usually take photo of molecules with a wide angle lens from a mile away?

Your expectations are unrealistic. Your results are typical for Fuji's XF 100-400mm.

Morris
 
To me the first one looks slightly front focussed, on the stubble in front of the bird. That might be just my eyes though. Try putting the original image with intact EXIF data into www.solentsystems.com, which will give you the focus point.

You're trying to photograph a mostly white bird a long way off on a mostly white background, which isn't an easy target. Cameras like contrast, which is perhaps why the last photo with the bird on a pole against a plain sky looks a bit better than the others.

Even with IBIS I wouldn't try hand holding at 400mm with a shutter of 1/500...1/2000 no problem.

Good luck!
 
For reference, here is a similar image I took a few days ago with the Sigma 100-400 for X mout of a killdeer.



c7c8cc0898c04b95a1cd6a350e9dcfa2.jpg



Hopefully it can serve as a reference. It was taken with a 26mpx sensor so keep that in mind.
 

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I am with Morris in this. Even if it was razor sharp, I wouldn’t even bother with them as the subject is so minuscule as to not warrant attention. They would get an instant “X’ in Lightroom from me.

pick a bigger or nearer subject and do some tests as suggested
 
Do you usually take photo of molecules with a wide angle lens from a mile away?

Your expectations are unrealistic. Your results are typical for Fuji's XF 100-400mm.

Morris
Agree, the subject is simply too far away. Even with a 600mm (900mm crop), still probably tough for decent resolution.
 
My copy of the 100-400 was always soft at the long end.

I posted about it on here a couple of times, as I was never happy with it.

I changed to the 150-600 and never looked back as it’s nice and sharp.
 
I agree with you that these images are disappointing. Despite the small subject being quite a long way from the lens at 400mm I would expect them to be sharper. I use a Fuji 100-400 and am satisfied with its sharpness. As an example of what this lens is capable of, see Alan Hewitt’s image of a puffin in flight with the same lens at 400mm, noting it was taken from a boat; see:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68061054

Is it the focus system? The lens? Or some other issue? Perhaps, in the spirit of helping, I can offer a view as a satisfied 100-400 user. DJ STU-C’s advice above about testing on a tripod is sound. I apologise for the slightly lengthy reply, but we aim to help you obtain sharp images from the lens. My comments below focus on technique, but also consider how sharpening is applied in post processing, although I doubt this is the cause of unsharp images here.

I also do not know your experience of telephoto lenses. I come at using telephoto lenses from the point of view of having been a marksman in rifle shooting. To be a marksman, and I was formally trained and spent years practicing, four attributes of high performance are necessary: settings; technique; training; and practicing. I believe these four attributes are also necessary to perfect telephoto lens use.

Looking at settings, for a static subject I set Focus S, AF Mode/Single Point and Single drive, a small focus box and mechanical shutter. For static subjects hand-held at 400mm, I use at least 1/1200 (400mm x 1.5 to give FF equiv of 600mm then times 2 = 1/1200). For moving subjects, I set Focus to C, AF Mode either Wide/Tracking generally or sometimes Zone, and Drive to CL. I use AF-C Custom 6 with tracking sensitivity set to 3, speed tracking sensitivity set to 1 and zone area switching set to Front. For moving subjects hand-held at 400mm, I use at least 1/2000, but this does depend on the speed of movement and the angle of motion relative to the camera. This works for running dogs and deer and galloping polo ponies (doing 25mph+). I do not do much in the way of bird in flight photography (Morris’s settings are best for this genre), which is far more demanding.

Looking at technique (non tripod use), which covers standing, holding, breathing and triggering.
  • I stand with my left leg slightly forward and taking about 2/3 of my weight and with the weight of the lens over my left leg to provide a stable platform.
  • I hold the weight of the 100-400 in the left hand with the elbow wedged against the ribcage. I have removed the tripod mount from the 100-400 to make hand holding more comfortable (and put black electrical tape over the screw holes). I hold the camera body with the right hand with the elbow against the body and it is the right hand that adjusts the direction of the lens. The camera is stabilized a little by my forehead looking through the view finder. Together with standing, this gives a reasonably stable platform.
  • For breathing, I breath in and at the top of the inhale, when the body is relaxed and stable, take the shot. During the inhale and exhale the core of the body is moving, which translates into movement of the lens as one holds it. At the top of the inhale the body is momentarily still. Therefore, take the shot at the top of the inhale when the body core and the lens are momentarily still (avoid taking the shot when breathing in or out as the body core is moving).
  • For triggering, one needs to roll the forefinger gently over the shutter release to avoid a sudden jabbing movement (the same as caressing a rifle trigger), which would cause movement of the camera body (a movement that few IBIS/OIS systems could compensate for). In rifle shooting, jabbing the trigger is a cause of missing.
Looking at training, where one pulls the settings and techniques together using any convenient subject as a target and then analyse the results. Initially, take several shots concentrating solely on standing, then take shots concentrating solely on holding, then take shots concentrating solely on breathing, then shots concentrating solely on triggering, and then pull all four techniques together over many shots. Once satisfied, practice to hone the skills.

Apologise if this sounds like I am preaching to an experienced user, but I have found that by focusing on settings, techniques and training/practicing my hit rate improves. If, after this approach, the hit rate does not improve, then I would look to the calibration of the lens.

Hope that helps. I think Alan’s shot of a challenging subject nails it (and I hope he does not mind me citing it as an exemplar excellent 100-400 usage).
 
I got a XF 100-400 mm used a while back and used it successfully to take pictures of birds at "medium" distances like on trees when I'm on a trail. The pictures are sharp for the most part.

Today, I had the opportunity to photograph a snow owl at long distances with my X-T50. Maybe 100-200m away or more. The 400mm is not enough and some very soft images were produced. I'm not sure if this is my fault somehow? For reference, this is what I did:
  1. Handheld as I forgot my tripod
  2. 1/2000s produced the best shot (used 1/500s earlier), but I didn't think it was needed because the owl was not moving for the most part. Even the vegetation around looks soft. I used F5.6 and tried F8. F8 was sharper but not by much. The weird softness is still there, but it had a wider DoF.
  3. Used manual focus because AF didn't work that well, and the owl is not moving.
  4. Temperature was cold, but the air was still
Here's the best result. There are photos that are worse. I feel like this is significantly worse than what I did before, but this is a new distance record for me for birds for sure.

X-T50 best result.
X-T50 best result.

Here's a worse one:

X-T50 not so good results
X-T50 not so good results

I also had a Sony HX99 with me. I used it to take some photos at its 720mm equivalent and used a 2x digital zoom. It almost feels sharper with more noise. Here's the result

HX99 with 2x zoom
HX99 with 2x zoom

One interesting note is that the bird later flew away to a post even further, and I feel like I got better result than the earlier photos shown? What am I doing wrong here? Is my lens bad?

X-T50 owl on post that's even further.
X-T50 owl on post that's even further.
First, the 100-400mm is not the sharpest at the long end, I would not call it soft but it seems to have some trouble with less than optimal atmospheric conditions very soon. These are very important. Even with the 50-140,mm, which is clearly sharper and excellent at 140mm, I sometimes think there is something wrong with the lens at the long end.

Second, as others said, long tele lenses are not easy to use either. I never had the feeling to master this lens. I prefer the 50-140mm with the 1.4x TC very much, even with some cropping occasionally.

As a result I sold my 100-400mm.

Of course 50-140mm will not do with bird photography but I am not into that. If I need long range in the future I will try the 500mm f/5.6 first.
 
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Genuine question from me:

Is atmospheric conditions likely at obviously low temperatures? Ground and air likely similar temperatures. I'm wondering about the physics of this.
The ground absorbs solar energy during the day and radiates heat energy at night. If exposed to a clear night sky, the sky acts as a black body. In short, heat transfer doesn't stop when the ground and air above the ground reach the same temp. The ground continues radiating heat as long as there's a clear night sky above.

Black body radiation is why a vehicle parked outside in an unsheltered location overnight in winter will have frost on the windshield while a vehicle parked a few feet away in the same temperatures but sheltered beneath an overhang will not.

In wintry conditions, the daytime air temperature can be anywhere from 10+ degrees warmer to 10+ degrees colder than the temperature of the ground. That sets up situations where heat transfer at ground level will destabilize the air immediately above the ground.

Combine this with a subject that's teeny tiny in the frame and you've got a recipe for photographs that lack sharpness & detail.

If the OP finds that photos of subjects filling most of the frame are sharp & detailed, that would tend to confirm the conditions (air turbulence at ground level combined with a subject that's small in the frame) produced the unsatisfying results.
 

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